Borax
Natural Remedies

Borax Cures and Health Benefits

Bird Mite Infection

1 User Review
1 star (1) 
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Posted by Sarah (Seattle, Wa Usa) on 07/23/2010
1 out of 5 stars

I had a really bad bird mite infection for 4 years and I researched Borax 20 Mule team which said it was an insecticide also loads of health benefits so I began having baths about a cup and then I would wash my clothes in borax (about a cup per wash). Then I would get a spray bottle and mix borax with water and spray my environment with it. I have to say it really helped alot at first but after long term exposure to borax I began to get chemically sensitive to it. My blood pressure would drop really low, my eyes were yellow and blood shot with big circles around them. Mental fogginess, dizzy spells all the time. I would get so nauseous I couldn't function with daily life. I know I've done damage to my pancreas and kidneys and my liver. It's going to take a while to recover. My advice to all reading about borax-yes it comes from the earth but I regret ever using it. ACV is a great alternate and the health benefits are amazing.

Replied by Nicole
(Usa)
09/16/2016

Sounds like you got yourself into a serious detox that was more than your system could handle. Maybe candida or other fungal die-off. Maybe metals. Maybe both. Calcium Gluconate as a supplement will restore liver efficiency after this sort of episode. You can take it in pretty significant quantities, like 6-10 caps per day, and it works really well and quickly. Also, drink distilled water.

Replied by Phatgirl
(Weymouth, Ma)
09/15/2018

Sounds like you over-did-it. Try less....doing only 1 of the 3 options you used. Hope that helps! :~>


Bladder Cancer

1 User Review
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Posted by Pastor William Barhorst (EC's YouTube Channel) on 06/11/2021
5 out of 5 stars

I UPDATED JAN 22 2018

I'm 62 years old and cancer free! Read it! I remember getting planters warts because of all the marching with the new Navy issue shoes in boot camp. The doctors would shave the wart down daily then put a piece of hard foam with a hole in center over the wart to force it out with each step and kept shaving it down until the root would separate from the rest of the skin then grabbed it with tweezers and pulled it out! I did it myself many times after that. I'm planters wart free for over 40 years.

I used borax to cure my cancer. I'm adding more information to this four months after I posted this.

Today is Jan 22,2018 and I want to add that the Doctors at the Veterans Hospital told my family If I didn't go through the entire procedure they recommended including scraping the tumors out of my bladder then after it healed to fill bladder and hold it in as long as I could or I'd die in 30 to 45 days.

Well after the doctors forced the large equipment (Video cameras needed to see what they were doing plus the scraping and burning equipment up my very small in diameter urinary track), they ripped it from tip of my male member all the way up to my bladder causing heavy bleeding which caused the catheter to get plugged up which caused a life threatening infection and tremendous pain. I begged doctors to cut my member off because it swelled to the size of a cucumber and was just as green. I told doctors I will not let their urinary doctors touch me again. Especially after the doctor pulled out the catheter from me as if he was trying to start a lawnmower that wouldn't start! I filed a report against him after I left the emergency room with Patient Advocate at the VA.

Well it's been just over 2 years since I was diagnosed with the cancer in 4 parts of my body and since I started treating my cancer with Borax. So I am living proof it works! The doctors did an ultrasound to locate the cancers they originally found on x-ray after I went to them because I saw blood in my urine. They wanted to find out if they could cut the cancers out. Well, they couldn't find any cancer! They wouldn't document when I told them of my curing it with Borax but they haven't done any more testing to try to locate it. I'm going to have my Primary care doctor put in an order for further tests to see if they can find any cancer in me. But they said I would be dead 30 to 45 days and it's 2 years now and I'm still here. I took a table spoon of Borax in a 2 liter plastic bottle from either Gatoraide or Poweraide. I drink it slowly over a few day period. I also recently found I've been getting erections for no reason throughout the day and night! (I'm celibate for many years I might add.) Which for me decreased with all the pain medications I was on. I haven't had this happen like this since grammar and High School!

EC: We just discovered this amazing comment on our borax video YouTube channel. It's from January 22, 2018. Someone recently replied that they discovered on Facebook that the pastor died last year (2020).  It is the first testimonial about borax successfully treating cancer that we've come across!

The pastor's original post is here if anyone wants to read the additional comments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXqlBVXUI98&lc=UgiwcEyr6utcDXgCoAEC

Replied by Christi
(Atlanta, Ga)
07/05/2021

My condolences. I am a bit confused by the comment “this is the first testimony that borax cured cancer”. You just said the pastor died. I am assuming it's from his cancer returning. Was it something else?

EC: No idea, sorry.

Michelle
(CO)
12/19/2021

He did not die of cancer. He died because he said borax cured cancer, publicly. Do you know how much money they make from cancer? It's not rocket science. And, they haven't taken their oaths seriously. Seems, if they don't have to be responsible for previous acts of inhumane treatment, or, anything else, the govt abuses. We've all been duped! To expect corruption to cure itself is the cancer itself.


Bloating

1 User Review
5 star (1) 
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Posted by Randy (Jersey City, Nj, Usa) on 01/12/2011
5 out of 5 stars

Better But With Side Effects

Based on recommendations I found on the site, yesterday I tried Borax to help relieve my candida issue. I have had long standing bloating caused by the candida. Just to start off, I took a very small amount (maybe 1/20 teaspoon) of 20-mule team borax in 0.75L water, and drank it throughout the day. By about 4pm, I started having A LOT of flatulence that lasted several hours. Didn't smell bad luckily, but had to go home after work and stay there for a while :)

By the end of the evening, my belly felt empty, with none of the pressure or pain that I have come to live with. Unbelievable! I plan on continuing to use borax for my issues. I will work up gently to about 1/8 or 1/4 teaspoon 4 days a week, for a limit time frame. Anyone interested in trying borax, I recommend it, but please read the borax information on this site, and work up the dosage very gently, it is powerful. Thanks Earth Clinic!!


Borax and Gut Flora

1 User Review
5 star (1) 
  100%


Posted by June (Florida) on 06/15/2014

Bill, what are the effects of borax water on the good bacteria in the gut?

Replied by Bill
(San Fenando, Philippines)
06/16/2014
5 out of 5 stars

Hi June...I'm afraid that I cannot give you any real research evidence on whether borax kills good microbiota in the gut or not -- I have looked at the research and their isn't very much on borax. But that's probably because the drugs companies don't really want you to know about how effective borax is against both mycoplasma and fungus.

What's more, I've been using borax water regularly for the last 8 years or so and it has never made me feel ill (even when I used it against my candida). So if you want my own opinion -- because that's all it is from my own experience with borax -- I would say that it doesn't kill good gut bacteria.

Betty
(CA)
10/30/2021

A chemist back in the 1960's was commissioned to travel the world for all the info he could find on boron. Other chemists were tasked with other inorganics also. An encyclopedia set was then put together for colleges. If you can get your hands on these old encyclopedia sets it might be a very useful tool.

John
(UK)
11/06/2021

I agree with this comment it has something to do with the human ph balance where good bacteria live and thrive and Borax works on this human ph level... Chlorine Dioxide does this also kills off bacteria that is not on the human ph balance...

Replied by June
(Florida, US)
06/25/2014

Thanks a lot Bill.

Replied by Anissa
(Alberta)
04/09/2018

For how long can I take the borax solution?

Replied by Katzie
(Calgary)
04/11/2018

You can take it for as long as you want. Boron is supposed to be in our fruits & veggies naturally but our soil is deficient in North America. If you keep taking the borax, it will help you during middle age too by assisting the parathyroid gland to help regulate your hormones, which is great for hot flashes.


Borax and Hormones

1 User Review
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Posted by Bev (Fort Lauderdale, Florida) on 08/08/2014
5 out of 5 stars

Borax causes men to produce more testosterone and women more estriol. For those of us older than 40 or 50, that would seem a very good thing.

Taking 2 or 3 days a week off the borax is to (supposedly) allow your body to adjust and your hormones to balance.

Several people take borax continuously and don't seem to suffer any ill effects. As usual, do your homework and make responsible choices. However, if taking borax 4 or 5 days a week gives you the results you want, why take it for 7?

Many health professionals advise taking even your regular supplements only 5 days a week (or 3 weeks on and 1 week off). The reason for this is because anything we take continuously may attenuate -- become less effective or even ineffective. This happens all the time with prescription drugs. People who were taking MSM every single day and getting great results suddenly were not: The MSM just stopped working for them after 6 months, a year, or in some cases many years.

Replied by Ken B
(Scotland)
03/11/2018

Fantastic answer, thank you Bev :)


Borax and Hormones
Posted by Bridget (Detroit, Mi) on 05/02/2014

Hi,I read on the posts here that borax can increase testosterone.......I don't want my hormones out of whack, is this something I should be taking? Thanks, this site is very interesting, glad I found it!

Replied by So & So
(Washington)
06/27/2014

Hi Bridget~ I was wondering the same thing. I did a bit of internet snooping & found these articles helpful. My husband was diagnosed with Low-T, with blood levels @ 180. The doctor put him on one of the gel treatments. He felt much better @ week 2 of treatment, but has gradually been feeling worse again. We are now @ about week 4. I suspect his estrogen levels are playing a part in this. Anyway, after reading the abstract I'm sending him to Wal-mart tomorrow bright & early to get some 20 mule-team borax!

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/borax.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21129941

I hope this is helpful!

Replied by Nels
(Gold Country, Ca.)
09/01/2015

I've just added boron as a 'must have mineral', having been ignorant of the wide ranging benefits toward wellness.

So much 'good stuff' seems to hide in the shadows of plain sight all around us, and one day, a light is shined on the subject, and it it immediately becomes a 'no brainer' to act upon the info, reaping unexpected rewards for one's effort to stretch further.

Boron's exactly that for me, changing my life in a wink...

...because, now I DRINK my footbath water.

(I mix up a fresh batch, no double-dipping for me)

Gee whiz! Whoo-da-thunk it? What's next?! ?

(urine therapy?! ?) Who knows...?

Thanks to all who contributed comments here. Has anyone noticed themselves feeling as strong as a mule? Just wondering...

Brandon
(Wa)
11/08/2018

Urine therapy works great for everything. Also Dr. Lugol's Iodine is a powerful tool as well. Researching old books has brought me to alot of this information. It is a fact, that when Rothchilds/Carnige created the first University, they removed ALL books of knowledge that promoted critical thinking. Schools were put in place to create "workers" not "thinkers".. That is a quote from Rothchild himself.


Borax Bans

Posted by Andrew (England) on 06/30/2015

My usual borax supplier had this message when I went to some a few days ago:

"RESTRICTED FROM SALE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC

This product is restricted for Sale to the General Public under Annexe XVII of EU Regulation 552/2009.

It is only available for sale to Companies and any sale will be subejct to a Declaration of Use being completed.

Please contact us before purchasing"

Seems our beloved Ted was right on the money as this restriction is totally irrational to a compound less toxic than table salt.

It can still be bought from that auction site and be imported but my advice is STOCK UP before a total ban if you live in the EU. Medical tyranny is halfway here. Look out for each other and stock up for your "chemical" remedies.

God bless.

Replied by Margaret
(Florida)
10/31/2017

It is on sale at walmart. I just got some.

Replied by Beamer
(Brisbane, Australia)
12/14/2017

Farm supply stores will have it.

Replied by Rskorj
(Ga)
02/17/2018

Don't take it for granted if you can buy it from the supermarket, I have seen corporations change the formulas of products and thus made them useless. The same thing can happen for the general public access to pure minerals. Stock up is good advice.


Borax Baths

5 User Reviews
5 star (5) 
  100%


Posted by Timh (Ky, Usa) on 10/12/2013 2080 posts
5 out of 5 stars

I have been using 1/4 cup Borax in hot baths for many months now, in addition to many other major & trace minerals w/ only temporary results. Last time I took 750mg Lufenuron prior to bath and did seem to have better results for my fungal issue. Also, as for combination therapy, I have taken Berberine following the bath which seemed to improve the situation.

Replied by Jacquelyn
(Ny)
10/13/2016
5 out of 5 stars

Borax can take glyphosate and radiation out of the body when soaking in it. I would not do anything less than 1/4 cup. You can do a half to a cup mixing it with epsom salt, baking soda or regular salts that will help draw it in through the skin. When drinking it, begin with 1/8 tsp in a qt. or liter of water. Some use distilled, I dont. Just dont use city water. You can increase to 1/4 tsp.

EC: Ted's recommended dosage for borax is 1/8 teaspoon in a liter of water for women and 1/4 teaspoon borax in a liter of water for men once daily 5 days a week.

Replied by Dr Howard
(USA)
01/10/2022

Bath:

Magnesium chloride flakes Dead Sea Kills fungus. Skin amazing softness clears skin. Iodine kills fungus skin diseases. One full eye dropper in bath. Water should be warm not hot.
12 Cell Salts 2 full caps.


Borax Baths
Posted by Vital Salts (San Diego Ca) on 09/11/2013
5 out of 5 stars

For those having issues ingesting Borax I would suggest bathing. I had major healing bathing using various mineral salts in a hot bath for an hour a day for six weeks. I had been diagnosed with lyme and associated co infections including candida and cleared most if not all symptoms using bath salts, citrus (vit. C) and hydrogen peroxide in combination topically. I used Borax, Epsom, sea salts and dead sea salts together. I would also add half a bottle of Hydrogen peroxide and scrub my skin with citrus. I used about 4 cups total salt per bath. Soaking the neck and thyroid seems important and I cleared lumps around my thyroid and all sorts of skin anomalies. Whenever I feel sick again from environmental toxins and parasites I just take a few baths a week and it clears my system. I was sick for 8 years and tried western and non-traditional treatments and nothing worked like this bath formula. I never ate borax but did increase ingesting mineral salts, Vitamin C and MSM. I also like to put Borax in my work boots. I noticed a detox from this.

Replied by Yasha
(Imnaha, Or)
10/11/2013

Simple question: How much borax to put in bath? Don't want all that other info. Just HOW MUCH BORAX IN A BATH????? Cannot find a simple answer to a simple question in all of this website! Not really very helpful.

Anon
(Anon)
06/08/2017

Be nice please.

Pan
(El Paso)
04/09/2021
5 out of 5 stars

Regarding how much borax to put in a bath:

One cup of borox should do nicely. It does clean very well and soaking your hair in it will leave it soft. I would highly recommend showering afterwards. It will leave you feeling rejuvenated and full of energy. Ahhh like brand new. I soak 10 to 15 minutes. Thank God for boron. God bless you.

linda
(alabama)
05/03/2021
9 posts

Yep, me too - no one ever says how much!! Geeze!!

Replied by Dave
(Fountain Inn, Sc)
10/11/2013

Hello Yasha from Imnaha,

You ask how much borax for the bath:

One tablespoon.

If drinking, use 1/20th of a teaspoon in a gallon of water and drink throughout two days.

Yasha there is not an exact science on this. But if you read the material about oral consumption you'll see that VERY little is required. By extension I use proportionally the same for a bath. The absorption will be less than orally consumed but spread throughout the body allows for a diverse transfer to different regions. Less but better applied. Same idea for Epsom Salts baths. I can orally take a magnesium supplement (and I do) but also there is a broader or wider absorption with Salts baths. A very ancient remedy to many maladies.

Best to you,

Dave

Replied by Mama To Many
(Tennessee, Usa)
10/11/2013
5 out of 5 stars

My husband did some borax baths and he used 1 cup per bath. I will say he had no ill effects. He didn't do this long term.

~Mama to Many~

Replied by Baldev
(Maharashtra, India)
10/12/2013
191 posts

Hi Yasha,

On this site Ted has recommended 1/4 tea spoon for men and 1/8 tea spoon of borax for women with 1/4 tea spoon of sea salt in one liter of water to be consumed through the day for internal use. Therefore, for bath one cup of borax should be ideal to get some benifit of borax for any health problem you are looking forward, may be don't soak for too long but I feel the concentration should be adequate to get the benefit.

Good Luck

Baldev

Replied by Cazzy
(Melbourne)
02/22/2018

Is a boron foot bath recommended for arthritis joint pain? If so, would a boron supplement capsule dissolved in water work? And how long to soak recommended?

Replied by David
(Chadron, Nebraska)
04/02/2018

Indeed. Yasha is about 78 years old now if she's still drawing breath, and is/was living in one of the most sparsely-populated, isolated areas of these United States of America in far northeastern Oregon (I used to live in the same county a few years back). A different breed of people live there, the very few who do, and the modern world has a tendency to confound them. Am not meaning this harshly or being mean. It's simply the way things are there. Good people, but their minds are generally made up and they can confuse when given facts. Go there, you'll see. Gorgeous country, Hell's Canyon area.

On another note, all of the vast amount of ideas, experiences, and knowledge here are quite likely helping to extend my life at present, having fought a couple of cancers all naturally for pushing 6 years here now (bladder and prostate). The borax has been incredibly effective in keeping my system on the slightly alkaline side, a critical part of my chosen therapies. It's kept the cancers from being able to grow.

Important, and respectfully- a little borax goes a long way. In my estimation- 1/8th teaspoon of borax in a quart/liter of water per day may well be too much for many if not most people. One quarter of this amount is likely fine, 1/32nd teaspoon (that is- one measured "smidgeon") dissolved well into a quart or liter of clean water per day is a strong alkalizing solution, still requiring a couple of days off each week.

And thank you one and all for spending the time to share and thus help many others. Had I gone the conventional medicine ways there would have been no way that I could have spent the last half a decade living life to the fullest. Thank you EarthClinic.

Sally
(Washington)
10/05/2018

Since 1/32 of a teaspoon would be difficult to measure, could perrson just mix up a liter of water with the 1/8t tsp of borax but only drink a portion of that water a day, perhaps 12 cup or 1 cup?

Charity
(faithville, Us)
04/10/2021

I read a lot. I have read that borax on hair can make it fall out. Too much in laundry eats holes in cotton. I read you can use it to get hair clogs out of drains. It affects hormones and I know some in earth clinic have put 1/2 cup in a bath but I can put a pinch in a foot soak and all hell break loose. One man's cure can be another man's poison. Study, remember it removes calcium out of soft tissue and chanca piedra (stonebreaker ) can be a good supplement to use with it. Be careful so you don't suffer while trying to get healed. Also, Boron is one mineral of many that needs to be kept in balance or your body will produce histamine to let you know there is an imbalance. Most illnesses can be relieved with water and an antihistamine but that is not solving the imbalance in mineral or hydration. Most hospitals' first line of treatment is a saline IV. Blessings, Charity

Replied by Tina R
(NY Metro)
10/22/2021

Hi, what are the dead sea salt, epsom salt brand/s for detoxing? I took an epsom salt bath and it left me very itchy.

Replied by Tania
(Perth WA)
01/01/2022

How do you think the Vital Salts from San Diego (2013) used borax in his/her boots? How much? Between sock and the boot itself?


Borax Capsules

1 User Review
5 star (1) 
  100%


Posted by Jens (Vancouver ) on 07/24/2015
5 out of 5 stars

I have been taking gelcaps of 20 mule team borax which is about 11% boron mixed 50% with magnesium citrate. The caps full are about 0.5 gram, or 0.25 g borax or about 0.0275 g which would be about 27.5 mg. I feel that when taken it helps with sleeping better waking up less stiff and less sore. If I don't take them a few days later I am reminded first thing in the AM.


Borax Capsules
Posted by Alakhi (Mt) on 11/16/2013

I have a question regarding Borax. I do not like the taste. I was wondering if it would be effective to take borax in a capsule as an alternative? I grew up in a moldy envirnment and have had problems with pcos, acne, hirstism, energy, food allergies, candida, etc.

Replied by Prioris
(Fl)
11/16/2013

You can put borax in a capsule or just keep diluting it in more water until it is palatable.

Replied by Ken B
(Scotland)
03/11/2018

Try mixing it in with lemon water or juice :)


Borax Contraindications

Posted by Gal (Fairfax, VA) on 10/23/2020

Question about using Borax.

Can borax be used for someone who has kidney failure? My dad is diabetic with kidney failure and hypertension. He wants to start supplementing with borax for boron. However, we're afraid that it might hurt his kidneys. Any advice?

Replied by Anon
(Not Canada)
10/23/2020

https://www.earthclinic.com/green/borax-safety.html

https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/21010.htm

I see nothing in the MSDS that suggests it impacts the kidneys.

Arsenic poisoning mimics diabetes. Consider having him do a heavy metals detox - garlic has been found to detox arsenic. He may regain his kidney function.

https://www.earthclinic.com/cures/arsenic.html

https://www.earthclinic.com/cures/diabetes-type-I.html

https://www.earthclinic.com/cures/diabetes-type-ii-treatment.html

https://www.earthclinic.com/cures/diabetic-neuropathy-treatment.html

🌞

Replied by JediSleeveEye
(Lethbridge, Alta. Canada)
05/15/2022

I would go to Distilled Water for Kidney Failure, Get him to drink a Gallon a day. No Less, and more would actually work better. Distilled Water is what must be used to perform Kidney Dialysis. Big Pharma knows this... Kidneys are clogged and have been slowly dying off for years thus failing, this is Kidney Failure. Supplementation with Borax likely wouldn't have any deleterious effects


Borax Dosages

12 User Reviews
5 star (12) 
  100%


Posted by Cher (Norfolk) on 01/31/2021

I've been reading on the second page of these posts that one poster said he felt Borax supplies 75 mg in a 1/8 tsp--but Dr. Newnham said "...40-60 grams was a dangerous dose and children had been killed with much smaller doses...... So I took 30 mg of borax twice daily, this was 6 mg of elemental boron a day and in a week the pain was less, in ten days the pain was less. In three weeks the pain, swelling and stiffness had all gone, so I stopped taking the borax. A year later the pain and swelling returned so I took more borax and in two weeks all was right again."

It seems that if 75 mg is 1/8 of a tsp, but Dr N. took 60, forgive my math (it's horrible) but wouldn't that mean you should be taking less than 1/8 to get 60 mg (his 30 mg 2x a day)??? So why is everyone taking so much more than he researched and recommended? Pls explain. I am all ears and I don't want to take too much or risk poisoning myself!! Tnx

Replied by Nico
(Eastern Ontario, Canada)
11/07/2021

Please! Do yourself a favour, and STOP TAKING ANY AND ALL SUBSTANCES until you buy a scale....

When weighing doses of any particular substance but ABSOLUTELY WITH NO EXCEPTIONS for drugs/medication, you NEED to be using a Calibrated Milligram Scale (so the units appear as 0.000g and in this case if you want 75mg you want it to read 0.075g when weighing out your dose.)

1/8th of a teaspoon is NOT a unit of measurement, maybe for flour or something that doesn't matter at all, but NOT for medications when the recommended doses are in the milligrams... JUST so we are clear, a milligram is 1000th of a gram, this is miniscule in comparison.. If you were to use this spoon method with a more harmful substance you would SURELY kill yourself! PLEASE be careful!

I write this for your benefit and ONLY with pure love, nothing else! ❤️

BevilNC
(NC)
11/07/2021

Borax is less toxic than table salt. In the case of Borax, I think the measuring spoon dosage is perfectly fine. A scale would be useful for perhaps things like Sodium thiosulfate.


Borax Dosages
Posted by Deirdre (LA) on 10/10/2019
5 out of 5 stars

My new borax protocol, working fabulously..

A pinch of borax in 4 ounces of water.

Taken two times a day. By pinch, I mean if you were to reach into a salt jar and pinch just enough salt to sprinkle on an entree, about that much. (Don't ask me to count the granules!) I spent the past 10 years on and off doing Ted's 1/8 teaspoon of borax in 1 liter of water. However, a pinch 1-2 times a day seems to be the perfect amount for me. I do the first dose on an empty stomach in the morning. 5 days on and take the weekend off. I was inspired by the post on Earth Clinic in the borax cures section to try the pinch after reading where someone wrote about how they generously sprinkled borax on their food every meal. No side effects with this pinch dosage! Previously borax made me feel upset for absolutely no reason like other women have mentioned here and there on the site. With the pinch of borax, after less than a day I feel light on my feet and have no joint pain lingering after strenuous karate training.

What an amazing remedy.


Borax Dosages
Posted by Mike (Virginia, United States) on 10/05/2019

Greetings all, I just found this site yesterday; however, I bought Borax when I first heard about using it for health purposes, but never used any because I had no pressing health issues at the time and did not realize it's benefits for detoxing. Now I thinking about starting to use it as a foot soak for swollen gums and detox. I got rid of the causal toothache with Oil of Oregano, but the swelling has persisted. Two questions if I may. I'm currently taking two droppers of Lugol's 2% per day and was wondering if starting the Borax soaks one day after stopping Lugol's seems OK? Also, any suggestions on a good starting point for how much Borax to use in the foot soak? From the side effects page I came away with, a pinch and up? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Mike



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