Managing Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis Naturally: Best Remedies to Try

| Modified on Jun 06, 2024
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Natural Remedies for IPF

Pulmonary fibrosis, a relentless lung ailment, remains an enigma for many medical professionals and patients. Marked by scar tissue accumulation, this chronic condition restricts the lungs from efficiently transferring oxygen, eventually hampering overall lung function.

While the mainstream medical community often leans on medications and even lung transplant surgery to tackle the issue, there's a growing wave of interest in natural interventions. These nature-derived remedies offer potential symptom relief and promise a better lung health trajectory, possibly decelerating the disease's rapid progression. This article delves into the efficacy of natural compounds like NAC and enzymes such as Serrapeptase, which shed light on their possible roles in managing pulmonary fibrosis.

NAC

N-acetylcysteine (NAC) is a natural compound with antioxidant properties that may help to reduce inflammation and improve lung function in patients with pulmonary fibrosis. It has decreased mucus production in the lungs and improved cough symptoms. NAC can be taken in supplement form and is generally considered safe.

Enzymes

Research studies have investigated the potential use of certain enzymes in treating pulmonary fibrosis. Here are some examples:

Serrapeptase

Serrapeptase, also known as serralysin or serratia E-15 protease, is a proteolytic enzyme derived from the non-pathogenic enterobacteria Serratia E15 found in the silkworm intestine. Historically, serrapeptase has been utilized in traditional medicine for its anti-inflammatory and pain-relieving properties. Its mechanism of action is believed to involve the breakdown of non-living tissue, including blood clots, cysts, and arterial plaques, without harming living tissue.

There's growing interest in evaluating serrapeptase for various respiratory conditions, including IPF, due to its purported abilities to reduce inflammation, break down scar tissue, and improve lung mucus clearance.

In one study published in Biomedical Reports, researchers investigated the effects of serrapeptase on lung fibrosis in a mouse model of pulmonary fibrosis. The study found that serrapeptase treatment reduced lung fibrosis and inflammation and improved lung function in the mice. The researchers concluded that serrapeptase might have therapeutic potential for treating pulmonary fibrosis.

In a review article published in the Journal of Pharmacopuncture, researchers summarized the current evidence on using serrapeptase for various respiratory diseases, including pulmonary fibrosis. The review included several studies that reported the positive effects of serrapeptase on lung function and fibrosis in animal models and human subjects. The researchers suggested that serrapeptase may be a promising natural therapy for respiratory diseases, including pulmonary fibrosis.1

Bromelain

Bromelain is an enzyme derived from pineapple that has been shown to have anti-inflammatory and immunomodulatory effects. In a study, researchers found that bromelain treatment reduced lung fibrosis and inflammation in a mouse model of pulmonary fibrosis. The researchers concluded that bromelain may have therapeutic potential in the treatment of pulmonary fibrosis. 2

Nattokinase

Nattokinase is an enzyme derived from fermented soybeans that has been shown to have fibrinolytic activity, meaning it can break down fibrin, a protein involved in blood clotting and scar tissue formation. In a study published in the Journal of Natural Medicines, researchers found that nattokinase treatment reduced lung fibrosis and improved lung function in a mouse model of pulmonary fibrosis. The researchers suggested that nattokinase may be a promising candidate for treating pulmonary fibrosis.3

Papain

Papain is an enzyme derived from papaya that has been shown to have anti-inflammatory and proteolytic effects. In a study published in Respiratory Research, researchers found that papain treatment reduced lung fibrosis and inflammation in a mouse model of pulmonary fibrosis. 4

Hydrogen Peroxide Inhalation Method

Hydrogen peroxide inhalation is a popular home remedy for lung diseases, including pulmonary fibrosis.

This therapy involves inhaling a diluted hydrogen peroxide solution, which is thought to help break down mucus and reduce lung inflammation. However, it is important to note that hydrogen peroxide inhalation can be dangerous if not done correctly and should only be done under the guidance of a healthcare professional.

Herbal Remedies

Certain herbs and spices may help to improve lung health and reduce inflammation in the body. These include ginger, turmeric, licorice root, and ginseng. Herbal remedies can be taken in supplement form or added to your diet as teas or spices.

Continue reading below for feedback on supplements Earth Clinic readers have tried, such as NAC and Serrapeptase, for IPF.

Related Links:

Five Supplements for Pulmonary Fibrosis and IPF


ACC 200 Effervescent Tablets

1 User Review
5 star (1) 
  100%

Posted by Philct (Cape Town) on 01/02/2016
★★★★★

Hello Audrey.

Thanks for a very inspirational post above. I am a 74 year old man in Cape Town and was diagnosed with Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis (IPF) about 2 years ago. Although your husband has UIP, the condition is similar to mine. My pulmonologist said that it is incurable but that the symptoms could be relieved to an extent by taking ACC 200 mg effervescent tablets (1 three times a day in water). These have helped but just before Xmas I was involved in a major motor accident in which the seat belt and airbag saved my life, but gave my thorax quite a knock. My breathing has rapidly got worse since then.

I was very interested in reading about the use of H2O2 (peroxide) and am going to try this, initially taking it as drops in water. I am seeing the doctor again soon, and will see what his reaction is, as he never mentioned this idea to me. I know the chemical process - essentially the hydrogen peroxide is unstable and produces molecular oxygen and water. It is the oxygen that helps with the condition. It is in a way the same as having oxygen from a cylinder. (It's also why H2O2 bleaches hair and materials).

As far as a cause is concerned, I believe I may have contracted IPF from the dust of cat litter (the clay type) having been cleaning the kitties' trays every day for the last 20 or so years!

Thanks again for the post - Phil

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Replied by Audrey
(Secunda)
01/28/2016

Phil - good afternoon.

There are so many incredibly sick people that can be helped with the FGHP, but do note that I am not saying that they can be cured.

Just a follow-up on my husband's condition. He is still on the same natural medications as I mentioned before but I have also started him at the end of September 2015 on Cannabis Oil (which is illegal in SA) but since then his 22 breaths per night has come down to 16. 16 is normal. Also on his lung function tests they claim that he might have the beginning of emphysema (ha ha) if they but knew his diagnosis. My husbands weight is between 71 - 73 kg's which can go down by 1.2 kg overnight. His weight should probably not be an issue but it is to me because I can only measure his "health" through his weight and lying some nights with a stop watch counting his breaths per minute while he is sleeping deeply.

I know, I sound mental or at the very least OCD but I am trying my very best to do anything that could influence his health positively. He is still active playing golf twice a week and physically working around the house although I have seen that in the last couple of weeks he is a bit more tired. He calls it being lazy - but he does not have one lazy hair on his head. I have not read of anything that can stop or slow down the honeycombing of his lungs but keeping my eyes peeled for any "new" info. I know that the oil can make your blood pressure a bit low - so hopefully that is the only problem. I hope that you find the help that you need and that you have an easier time breathing now.

Lots of best wishes for a wonderfully informative and healthy 2016. Audrey


Aloe Oil, Apple Cider Vinegar

1 User Review
5 star (1) 
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Posted by Octavio (Los Angeles) on 10/07/2013

Hello everybody, first of all I would like to thank everymember on this site for sharing their experiences and situations, and recommendations, this definatelly helps other users to have a better understanding about their ilnesses.

My dad suffers from pulmonary fibrosis since 2010, it seems like every time situations gets worse, he gets tired easily, and constantly has to be on artificial oxygen.

After reading posts about similar situations on this site, I saw that many users are relying on aloe vera oil juice and apple cider vinegar, I definitely think this will help improve my dad's health, I just want to know what would be the ideal portions of this two products and what would be the right amount of times to drink it. Please anyone am waiting for an advice, ...

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Replied by Mama To Many
(Tennessee, Usa)
10/07/2013
★★★★★

Dear Octavio,

I am so sorry about your father's suffering. And it is hard to watch our parents suffer. He is blessed to have you wanting to help him!

Apple Cider Vinegar is a good thing to try. Safe and inexpensive. Try to find raw and unpastuerized. Start him on 1 teapsoon per day in a glass of water. The next week, try 2 teaspoons per day. The next week, try 3 teaspoons per day. Times of day aren't critical--one glass in the morning and one in the evening. I just sip on my vinegar water throughout the day.

I am hoping someone else knows about dosing the Aloe, I don't have much experience with that.

Do some research on this site about Hydrogen Peroxide Inhalation therapy. It helps get oxygen to the lungs and helps with healing. We have used this for my asthmatic daughter with success.

I also bought an essential oil nebulizer for my daughter with an essential oil blend called "Lung Healing. " It has helped her a lot. I highly recommend it, though a diffuser is not cheap.

I get the oil blend here:

http://heritageessentialoils.com/lung-healing.php

If you have a way to make him fresh carrot juice, that would be really good for him.

Please keep us posted on how things work for him.

~Mama to Many~


Apple Cider Vinegar

2 User Reviews
5 star (1) 
  50%
4 star (1) 
  50%

Posted by Michele (Florida) on 05/15/2018
★★★★☆

Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis: My husband was on Esbriet and had horrible side effects. Couldn't even be in light let alone sun light. Turned his skin reddish purple with horrible itching. Now on Ofev with side effect of diarrhea. I am also giving him 2 tbs of organic cider vinegar in water once a day. Seems to help with the cough and very safe.

Also started him on NAC twice a day. Just started NAC so no improvement yet.

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Replied by Teena
(Melbourne, Australia)
05/16/2018
233 posts
★★★★★

Michele, I believe you are on the right track by adding the NAC, this has mucous thinning properties and is anti inflammatory, among many other benefits. Please research the benefits of serratapeptase enzyme, castor oil packs combined with massage, mullein tea, iodine, essiac tea, garlic. Topically each night you might try a salve of olive or coconut oil, you can thicken with Shea or cocoa butter, but not necessary, add anti fungal, anti microbial essential oils like cinnamon, eucalyptus, tea tree, clove, nutmeg, lemon, but in my practised opinion, oregano oil is the essential and magic ingredient. Apply front and back of the chest should feel warmth penetrating chest. This greatly helped family member also put eo's in vaporiser at night with water in closed room. I am since of the opinion the reason the oregano oil helps the lungs is because it kills the mycoplasma thought to cause the condition. Combined with your NAC working on the biofilm and mucous (hiding place) I would expect even better results. For my family member she also (reluctantly) ate raw garlic clove morning and night, maybe you can try extract or pills, and added turmeric, cayenne, clove 1 tsp ea to her tea. And had significant improvement in a week. Please note oregano oil is very powerful and is usually sold 25% diluted, and I have no experience with contraindications of your stated meds, please research. Best to you.

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Margie
(Detroit, MI)
02/07/2022

Hi Teena. Could you tell me the ratio of the oregano oil with carrier oil that you use? I have IPD and would like to start this regimen ASAP. Thank you for your help.

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Simone
(New Hampshire)
04/05/2022

Hi Art - do you know the recommend dose of melatonin for pulmonary fibrosis?

Thanks!


Cause of IPF

1 User Review
5 star (1) 
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Posted by Gertie (Galax, Va) on 06/09/2017
★★★★★

My friend has idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis. He noted that many of the patients at the clinic he goes to, many WWII pilots or crew, were exposed to fine oil particles in the cockpit during missions--everything was covered in oil when they would get back. He feels this is the cause of his disease.


Chinese Herbs

1 User Review
4 star (1) 
  100%

Posted by Red (Edmonds, Washington) on 10/10/2009
★★★★☆

After reading your informtion on different herbal and remedies for Pulmonary Fibrosis, I am willing to share our information to try and help others.

My partner was diagnosed with Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis. Or UPF..The radiologists are not sure which type it is on the catscan and would like him to have a lung biopsy. Which at this time, he is not willing to do. Last November after seeing an M.D., they told him he had Pneumonia (which now the pulmonary doctors say he "never had", but has IPF.. And this November will be a year. 2009

He is taking 2 Chinese herbs, Clear Air (Perilla Fruit) AND Cordyceps PS (Dong Chong Xia Cao) One in the morning and one at night. Also NAC (N-A CETYL-CYSTEINE) 600 MG. one in morn. and one at night.

He perceives that this has improved his breathing, as before he was only able to climb 3 flights of stairs and now can do at least 5 flights of stairs. And the oxygen levels have improved, according to doctors tests.

After reading the testimonils of others on this site and Ted's info, we're interested in pursueing other remidies as well.

Positive thinking is everyones focus. Never giving up!

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Replied by Fred
(Mauritius)
09/28/2016

Hi everybody. I have been diagnosed early stage IPF 1 year back on ct scan basis and shortness of breath. One dr is advising steroid and immunosuppressor while another doctor proposing pirfenidone. I know both of them have serious side effects. I am 58 years old, dentist. Could somebody please advise. I am happy to learn from this forum that there exists also natural remedies:enzymes, H2O2, oil pulling etc. I dont know where to start. please help thanks.-Fred

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Replied by Mmsg
(Somewhere, Europe)
09/28/2016

Fred, you might want to start with a spritz of h2o2 in a humidifier at night.

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Replied by Maggie
(Boring, Oregon)
05/23/2017

Thank you so much for your post. I've recently been diagnosis with pulmonary fibrosis and was first with pneumonia, probably common in the first stages but after 2 months is when I get a diagnosis. Hypersensitive pneumonitis is another diagnosis brought on by using a biologic called Entyvio for bowel disease. The Entyvio cleared up my colitis but caused not only this but extreme and severe arthritic pain. I've been on prednisone for a good month and am now tapered down to 30mg. and will be on for several more weeks. I have made a lot of improvements but have a ways to go. BTW, the pred cleared my arthritis up on the 2nd day! I'm not taking Chinese herbs, back on calcium because of side effects from the pred as well as other herbs. If my problem doesn't get better in 2 months then my pulmonologist will do a lung scope and biopsy for a more true dx. I'm remaining optimistic, accept that I'm on prednisone and it's risks. I just discovered on another website that pulmonary fibrosis is also an autoimmune disease so that goes with the colitis, psoriasis, psoriatic arthritis, and EBV.

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Replied by Bala
(India)
09/26/2018

Respected sir,

as you told, I agree . I trust natural herbs can cure ipf. my father has affected with ipf for 2 years more. we tried with some indian medicined . but its not work.when he take siddha herbals it increases the troubles. I saw your post. you told some chinese herbals.can you tell me how to buy this chinese medicine. can you tell in detail. if you do this help I cant forget you.. bcoz I love my father ..i like to save him ..he s only 59 years old

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Jay
(Sydney)
07/25/2022

Hi Bala - The two medications referenced by the OP can be found here - - https://www.healthconcerns.com/practitioner-item/8/39/Clear_Air.html - https://www.pureformulas.com/cordyceps-ps-50-tablets-by-health-concerns.html

Give my best to your dad - you guys will be fine. :) Best, Jay


Daily Expectorant

2 User Reviews
5 star (2) 
  100%

Posted by Barry (Boise, Idaho) on 03/06/2016
★★★★★

Editor's Choice

Reply to all but to those in S.A. in particular.

I was diagnosed with IPF in 2008. Incurable disease, unknown cause, no cure and regrettably not much interest from the medical community. I can think of many possible causes: dust, fungus, pollution, second hand smoke (I'm a lifelong non-smoker) or heredity. Actually again nobody except victims pay much attention to why it occurs. I always figure: figure out the cause; figure out the cure ( ah well...). Anyway I've developed several methods to keep myself alive, the best one of course is unpleasant: Taking a worthy expectorant and after loosening the gunk (fibrin, mucus) in the lungs cough it out; this can be exhausting, particularly in the am after it builds up.

Sharing is all we can do, it's such a battle one day at a time. Diagnosed with IPF for 7.5 years and still only 64, it's been grueling for my family. Keep fighting the good fight folks and "live".

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Replied by Ben
(Bremerton, Washington)
03/07/2016
★★★★★

That is a typical response to get nowhere from conventional doctors. The trouble you are experiencing is caused by mycoplasma infection and biofilm in your lungs. Most autoimmune disorders are a not so good response by the immune system at trying a feeble attempt at eradicating this organism. Your lungs fill with fibrosis scar tissue slowly reducing your airspaces. If left untreated you will eventually struggle just to try and breathe. Lucky for you came to the right place.

Now you got some serious home work to do but I will point you in the right direction.

Go to youtube, look up "weaponised mycoplasma" Dr Garth Nicholson, then study serrapeptase a systemic enzyme. Google serrapeptase /pulmonary fibrosis or serrapeptase copd they are very similar. Our lungs are being filled with fibrin. Serrapeptase a systemic enzyme tones down an over reactive immune system and literally eats the fibrin plugging your lungs. Serrapeptase also acts against biofilm and attacks mycoplasma. It destroys biofilm and eats foreign proteins found in your blood that germs require for replication. This is the only known way to stop the disease.

Doctors give steroidal antiinflammatories for this condition. This increases the speed of disease progression since mycoplasma feeds off of preformed sterols.

Next thing go to george eby research and spend a few days there studying gallium nitrate. These two things are 99 percent of what you need to reverse the disease. Other treatments that will help are uvbi, whole body blood ozonation, blood electrification or simply buy a hbot chamber. Blood ozonation kills the mycoplasma that drives the disease. Hbot only slaps it around a bit being much weaker than ozone. Once you learn about mineral solutions like gallium nitrate you will see it is able to help a wide variety of seeming totally unrelated diseases. For example pulmonary fibrosis, cancer, multiple sclerosis, lupus, crohns, various std's, arthritis, and a mind boggling variety of other autoimmune diseases are all helped by one simple mineral solution, gallium nitrate. Yet 99.9% of the world has never heard of it. Drug companies never teach doctors about using non drug items. It competes with their interests. Imagine a cheap mineral solution that cures arthritis for a year or more after a single 90 minute exposure. If this info got out they would go broke. Thank God for Earth Clinic!

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Replied by Liz
(Canada)
05/17/2017

Hi Ben, for IPF, early stages, what brand of serapeptase and what dosage would you use? Same for the Gallium Nitrate? and, in your opinion, do these products reverse the illness or just make it easier to live with as I have not heard of anybody getting cured of the pulmonary fibrosis disease. Thanks for your great info on the disease.


Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide

6 User Reviews
5 star (6) 
  100%

Posted by Audrey (South Africa) on 11/02/2015
★★★★★

Editor's Choice

Dear all,

My husband was diagnosed with UIP (Usual Interstitial Pneumonia) in February 2015. Before that for about 2 years he was losing weight and becoming forgetful. After many doctors visits during nothing could be found wrong with him we ended up with this diagnosis. He went onto medication for 1 month and became so ill that within 2 weeks he could not even write. This is a man who previously weighed 82 kg's down to 69 kg's but still very active. My husband made the decision that he was not going to use this medication ever again as it made him so ill. He got this illness due to dust in his workplace.

I started looking for natural remedies and found the Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide information. I bought it at 35% volume. (This can turn your skin white and lightly irritated - wash with lots of water - but rather use gloves). I diluted the 35% down to 3 % with distilled water and bought nasal spray containers (threw out the medication and washed the bottles and sprays well). Then I started him with the sprays, inhaling through the mouth into the lungs, up to 10 times a day, and within 3 days his coughing was nearly gone and his chest better.

Then I started him drinking the 35% at 1 drop 3 times a day in a glass of distilled water and worked up to 15 drops 3 times a day but he started feeling nauseous and we went down to 12 drops again. I would also put 5 ml of the 35% into a humidifier (fill it with water) and put it close to his side of the bed during the night. All of this was good but I wanted more. I also started feeding him 3 meals a day with lots of nice things to entice him to eat more and gave him two protein and bulk shakes a day. Then I started looking for a medical doctor who works with Hydrogen Peroxide and believe it or not I found her. She is excellent. She was very impressed that my husband was already using Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide and she gave him a very good physical but then did something that I have never seen any medical doctor do before. She took a drop of his blood (through his finger like a diabetic would do to measure his sugar) - put it under a microscope and showed us that his wonderful body had started producing a lot of red blood cells which could grab every drop of oxygen that came in to transport it where needed BUT unfortunately the red blood cells were sticking to each other and this could cause either blood cloths or strokes - so she immediately put him on a protocol which included magnesium and b vitamins and 2% FGHP intravenously.

My husband started picking up weight and he has painted the house outside, the roof and works hard in the garden. His breathing is fast 22 breaths per minute (I timed him with a stopwatch during the night while he was sleeping a couple of times). (Ha ha I bet you think that I am mad but I am not just anxiety filled stressed and very very concerned about this wonderful man who I have been married to for nearly 40 years). Unfortunately, they have now told us that he has honeycombing of the lungs which is fatal and they (the doctors) see this as end stage. My husband is still working in the garden - very hard - putting in sprayers and sawing off tree limbs very high in the trees etc.

Our wonderful doctor has told us that she cannot cure him but that we will handle everything as it happens. In the meantime, he picked up weight to 74.7 kg (during a holiday while he was not working so hard and eating very well as I was around him the whole day with food and shakes). He does drink serrapeptase and vit c and alkalizer and MSM powder and as soon as the serrapeptase is up we will start with quercetin bromelain. In the meantime, we have had a discussion where my husband chooses quality of life over quantity and instead of crying (although I am very stressed), we enjoy every day that we have.

I hope that this gives some of you with pulmonary fibrosis new hope and or at least something to follow-up on. I myself have a problem with my chest feeling very tight at times and the 3% spray really really helps. God bless you all.

If there is anyone that can give me the name of the gout medication to use I will also let my husband give it a try or if anyone knows of anything that will stop or even turn around the honeycombing it will be very much appreciated.

Blessings, Audrey

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Replied by Mary
(Usa)
11/04/2015

In my work, I have studied fungus, mold, yeast. In Arizona and California, Utah, parts of Florida, there is a disease called Valley Fever. It comes from a mold under the sand. This condition started many years ago in California during a earthquake. The very old sand came up and since than with all the building going on, this disease is everywhere. The honeycombing with a symptom of the mold disease.

I know you are not in the USA but the symptoms are the same.

ML

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Replied by Dhaval
(Gandhinagar, Gujarat)
04/08/2016

There is home remedy for gout I know and it is fenugreek seeds. You just have to soak fenugreek all overnight and then eat it in morning and drink that water. It helps in gout

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Replied by Audrey
(South Africa)
06/17/2016
★★★★★

Good afternoon to all from a wintery South Africa - I am back once again to inform you of my husband's IFP and what we have been doing. Johann is still on all the natural medicines that I mentioned before. He is still well - his breathing has come down to 14 per minutes - he is still on the cannabis oil as well. The only effect that I have seen from the cannabis oil is that his blood pressure has dropped. Further his weight goes up and down between 73.5 and 71 kg's depending on how hard he is working and playing golf and eating of course but still much better than when he was diagnosed at 69 kg's. The doctor that I use in South Africa will probably not be able to help you in the USA but try and find a medical doctor who works with natural medicines and Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide. Good luck and best wishes to all.

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Replied by Angel
(Johannesburg)
06/21/2016

Dear Aubrey,

Please post the contact for the Doctor who works with HP. I was recently diagnosed with Pulmonary TB through lung x-ray but I have faith it will clear. My daughter is also expelling thick mucus esp from 03:00 AM. She is not coughing. Her x-ray was clear. We have no family history of this.

Thanks in advance.

Angel

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Replied by Elsa
(New Zealand)
07/19/2016

You can try the following: castor oil pack, clay poultice, pau d' Arco, rub a golf ball to your feet and concentrate on the lungs area acupressure point.

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Replied by Candybeagle
(Ohio)
05/04/2017

Peroxide scares me. I have sclera. and have the beginning of fibrosis in the lungs. Do people just breath this in in a vaporizer? I have serrapeptase but only took it once a day will up my dose and do 2x. The medical field is making so much $ treating this stuff like cancer there will not be a cure.

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Replied by Lawrennce
(Uk)
12/05/2018

Hi, my consultant gave me 10 months to live in 2015 and I am still working. I found a company in US who supplies Trebinase and Serrapeptase which has given me 3 extra years and it works for me. I hope this helps.

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Replied by Pier
(Illinois)
01/07/2023

Do you experience stomach issues? I'm hesitant because too many ppl have stomach upset from serrapeptase. Also, do you take nattokinase, another enzyme? I read that it too, helps break down fibrosis but no one talks about it. I believe that one does not have the bad side effects.

Thank you.

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Replied by Pier Luigi
(Illinois)
02/18/2023

Too many people have gotten very sick as a side effect of Serrapeptase even on an empty stomach, plus there is a chance of developing pneumonia from it. What about Natookinase? Why don't we hear anyone else talking about this enzyme. If you look it up, it says that it too eats away at scarring.


Thank you.

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Replied by Alexandra
(Houston, TX)
05/17/2024

Thank you for sharing your experience. I want to let you know that I had gout in the big toe joint, left side. It hurts a lot!! So I took apple cider vinegar, s teaspoon in half a glass of water three times a day, and it was gone in a few days. Wish you the best and hope you and your husband enjoy good health for long time.


Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide
Posted by jimmy vou (DALLAS, Texas) on 03/05/2008
★★★★★

Editor's Choice

Pulmonary Fibrosis. For the past 11 days I have been taken 35% up to 75 drops daily well diluted in distilled water. My lungs are in the process of being cured. my ears are begining to open once again. My chest is beginning to feel almost in order once again. Amen! I have additional energy, breathing is coming back in short spans, yet it is coming back... The Doctors reports as of 2 weeks back is Cancer in the Lung... Yet, I mentioned the product to him, and he made another appointment for the 31st of this month. I will let you know.

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Replied by Jimmy
(Dallas, Tx 75243)
09/14/2009
★★★★★

Editor's Choice Update..

A little over five (5) years.. February 2008 I came to the point that my chest started to cave in... You could hear my breathing down the street... I thought I was in the pathway of Going Home to meet my Jesus... Amen...! But something told me to start searching the Net for some type of solution that could either help "me" or just say goodbye...

It was about 3 days after I started taking Hydrogen Peroxide 35% Food Grade... that my lungs started to become normal once again... My breathing was starting to open up once again... My throat and face started to feel much better... About 4 months later I stopped, and I believe approximately 30 days later the latter was returning... so I immediately started taking Hydrogen Peroxide 35% Food Grade...

Since then, I have been wonderment to many people including my Doctors... They at first told me to stop taking H.P. 35% Food Grade, that it wasn't any good for me. I asked them if they had the same disease as mine would you at least try something that might help... Each one at different time shut-up... Now they are asking me how I feel. I tell them all... I'm still here doing all I can to strengthen my ability to stay in the condition until I get better then I am today... The last doctor I talked with, he told me that I had about another 3 to 4 years left... I just turned 70. And I feel good... Amen!

If there is any information that could be helpful, please don't hesitate to contact me...

Jimmy

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Replied by Liz
(Las Vegas, Nv)
09/02/2011
★★★★★

The program outlined for the best way to use HP is only a suggestion, but it is based on years of experience, and reports from thousands of users. Those who choose to go at a slower pace can expect to progress more slowly, but that certainly is an option. The program is not carved in stone and keep in mind that it can be adapted to fit individual needs. Individuals who have had transplants should not undertake an H202 program. H202 stimulates the immune system and could possibly cause a rejection of the organ.

Day #/Number of Drops/ Times Per Day (Add drops to 4-8 ounces of water or juice)

  • 1 - 3 / 3
  • 2 - 4 / 3
  • 3 - 5 /3
  • 4 - 6 / 3
  • 5 - 7 / 3
  • 6 - 8 / 3
  • 7 - 9 / 3
  • 8 - 10 / 3
  • 9 - 12 / 3
  • 10 - 14 / 3
  • 11 - 16 / 3
  • 12 - 18 / 3
  • 13 - 20 / 3
  • 14 - 22 / 3
  • 15 - 24 / 3
  • 16 - 25 / 3

Maintenance Dosage
In most situations after the above 21 day program, the amount of H202 can be tapered off gradually as follows: (add drops to 4-8 ounces of water or juice)

  • 25 drops once every other day for 1 week
  • 25 drops once every third day for 2 weeks
  • 25 drops once every fourth day for 3 weeks

This can then be reduced to between 5 and 15 drops per week based on how one feels. Those with more serious problems will often benefit from staying on 25 drops three times a day for one to three weeks, then tapering down to 25 drops two times daily until the problem is resolved (possibly as long as six months). Those with chronic systemic Candidiasis may need to start with 1 drop three times a day, then 2 drops three times a day before starting the above schedule. It is important that H202 be taken on an empty stomach. This is best accomplished by taking it either one hour before meals or three hours after meals. If there is food in the stomach, the reaction of H202 on any bacteria present may cause excess foaming, indigestion, and possibly even vomiting. Additionally, some animal research indicates that when H202 given orally combines with iron and small amounts of vitamin C in the stomach, hydroxyl radicals are created (J Inorg Biochem 89;35(1):55-69). The bleach-like aftertaste of H202 can be lessened by chewing one of the sugar-free cinnamon gums. Some individuals taking H202 immediately before bedtime have a difficult time getting to sleep. This is probably due to a sense of alertness triggered by an increase of oxygen at the cellular level. The oral dosage schedule is basically the same for all conditions. There are several points to keep in mind, however.

Some individuals may experience upset stomach. If this occurs it is recommended that one not stop the program, but rather remain at the current dosage level or reduce it to the previous level until the problem stops. (Some patients have been able to solve the nausea problem by taking three or four lecithin capsules at the same time they take the H202. ) During the program it's not uncommon to experience what is known as a healing crisis. As dead bacteria and toxins are released from your body it may temporarily exceed your capacity to eliminate them quickly enough. In some individuals this overload may cause fatigue, diarrhea, headaches, skin eruptions, cold or flu-like symptoms, and/or nausea. One should not discontinue using the peroxide to stop this cleansing. By continuing the program, toxins will clear the body sooner and this healing crisis will pass rather quickly.

If you are not already taking vitamin E and an acidophilus product, I recommend starting them before going on H202. Vitamin E can make more efficient use of any oxygen available and acidophilus will help re-establish the beneficial bacterial flora in the lower bowel and also help in the internal production of hydrogen peroxide.

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Replied by Harry
(Ft.lauderdale, Florida. Usa)
09/10/2011

Do you have to take the 35% food grade HP and dilute to 3% and then take the recomended # of drops directly in the mouth with a dropper or can you add it to water or juice?

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Replied by Margaret
(Ronan, Montana)
02/08/2013

The above drop schedule is for 35% into distilled water or juice. A full glass of water (4 to 8 oz.) is recommended. So it would be 3 drops (35%) into glass of water or juice, on empty stomach 3 times a day... etc... as the schedule indicates. So at this dilution it should be well under 3%, to start off with anyway.

If you need to dilute it, recommendations are 1 part h202 to 11 parts distilled water. This will make 3%.

35% can cause discomfort if gotten on skin, so use caution. It will whiten the skin and cause sharp nerve pain, which can be lessened by running under cold water. It usually doesn't last very long.

35% taken orally straight can cause a trip to the doctor, so don't do it. :)

Oh, and I'm not an expert, just relaying what I know from what I've read and experienced.

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Replied by Dick
(Homosassa, Fl. Usa)
02/18/2013
★★★★★

I usually don't do this but it may help someone to make a comparison. I am trying the H202 therapy. I reduced the food grade H202 to 3%(per instuctions) & I was given a small compressor (rented through Medicare for another treatment) and I "smoke" the vapors for once a day to start. I use about half a thimble of the mixture. I can't tell whether it is my imagination but I seem to feel better and I am producing a more productive cough than with the other meds that I've tried (TV commercials). I'm pretty active with walking giving most of my troubles. I'll be seeing a pulmonary specialist next week and see what he recommends for his treatment and then I'll drop this on him to get his reaction. I'm not too overly concerned about my future but I'll be damned if I don't give it a shot.

Dick

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Replied by Roy
(Waco, Tex)
12/23/2017

I would like a follow up on the man named Dick, I live within 90 miles of him, and I have the same lung problem

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Replied by larry von
(california)
02/20/2022

Like to know your status, Jimmy, hopefully you are still with us.


Gallium Nitrate

Posted by Verbena (Chicago, IL) on 02/11/2023

Potential therapy for Fibrosis

Has anyone heard/tried Gallium Nitrate for pulmonary fibrosis?

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Replied by Art
(California)
02/12/2023
2288 posts

Verbena,

Gallium nitrate is expensive and hard to find. If that doesn't work out for you, you might be interested in the following for IPF/PF :

https://www.earthclinic.com/cures/five-supplements-for-pulmonary-fibrosis.html

Art


Gout Medications for PF

1 User Review
4 star (1) 
  100%

Posted by Clarence Clemons (Los Angeles, Ca) on 07/06/2011

What do you know about vilac plus and where can it be purchased. Does it work for pulmonary fibrosis?

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Replied by Weddy
(Houston, Tx, Us)
10/11/2012
★★★★☆

Some of my family has gout, so we're quite familiar with medications and alternatives. So when my father with pulmonary fibrosis was given a prescription for a "gout medicine", we were all confused - did Daddy get gout older than other family members? After asking a few of his hospice nurses, one finally knew the actual reason: Protein breaking down produces purines, and lung tissues break down more quickly with advanced pulmonary fibrosis, therefore producing more purines. AND since purines aggravate pulmonary fibrosis, it becomes a snowball/avalanche, so they've found that using gout medications helps slow the avalanche of purines.

Back to gout and alternative treatments. Although vinegar is an acid, it actually alkalizes the body. So when gout sufferers alkalize their body, their blood can hold more uric acid in the blood (as a liquid), so the uric acid crystals in their joints and organs (lungs in Daddy's case) disolve into their blood better. If they're able to clear this liquid uric acid via their kidneys, yay keep drinking vinegar. But not all gout sufferers can clear uric acid as efficiently as others - even if disolved in their blood.

Supposedly anthocyanins helps to clear disolved uric acid from the body. Anthocyanins come from darkly colored foods like blackberries, blueberries, sour cherries, black eggplant skins, turtle bean broth (not the beans, just the liquid after cooking).

So I'm guessing that using both vinegar and dark foods together might help my brother who has gout, but also my father who now has uric acid issues from his pulmonary fibrosis. I'm thinking a drink with mashed blackberries or blueberries in water, with a little apple cider vinegar, and a bit of stevia as needed would make a tasty, medicinal drink.

Thank you for listing other nutraceuticals and supplements - I went through your page and found most on Amazon, so I can send Daddy a package thru them - He loves natural cures (he lives very remotely, so Amazon is nice, since we can't take a plane or bus to visit him, and I'd like to send him the supplements/nutraceuticals before I can arrange to make the trip with our older vehicle).

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Replied by Robin
(Minnesota)
09/18/2015

Weddy, thanks SO much for posting that gout info! Now I understand some connections with other issues. I have COPD, but I never smoked. Docs can't tell me why I have to be on oxygen at all other than "you are overweight" and then got the flu. So I have been on this oxygen machine for over 2 yrs now and still have to go to work, drag these heavy tanks around and be connected to something at all times. I have a tail folks! Ok.

So I have another serious problem besides lungs, that is something called lipedema, not lymphedema or plain edema. Lipedema is when the lymph system in your body makes you spread out evenly and mostly sideways. In a medical conference one doc talked about proteins. So there is a connection with how the body deals w/proteins. I have had a couple 'grout bumps' on my heels for several years now. So it has to be connected. I get sick as a dog if I take any protease type enzymes for fat digesting enzymes. Just plain can't do it. So finding that lung issues can be fibers related to scaring, or not clearing out dead tissue or scaring from other causes (maybe asbestos or smoke) is a revelation to me. I know this is related to body acidity, but like someone says, if your kidneys can't get it out of the body, you still have a problem. I think my liver, kidney and adrenal are all maxed out.

So thanks again, going to give this some more research, just had to pop in here and let you know!


Herbs

1 User Review
5 star (1) 
  100%

Posted by Timh (Ky) on 01/28/2016 2048 posts
★★★★★

In the herbs dept for Lung Fibrosis is Hawthorn, Mullein, Gotu Kola, Comfrey or Allantoin, Schizzandra, and Astragalus.


High-Dose Vitamin C, Magnesium+

1 User Review
5 star (1) 
  100%

Posted by Inday (Hayward, Ca) on 10/21/2015
★★★★★

Remedies for Pulmonary Fibrosis

10 yrs ago I have pneumonia fluid in the lungs, hospital for 10 days with very potent antibiotics did not work diarrhea no appetite did not get well, then sent home with pique line antibiotics again. Miraculously, got well no fever but pain in the back. Dr said I had scarring in the lungs.

I start doing my own research supplementing with high dose vitamin c, magnesium, repair my gut with colostrum and probiotics and start organic only 2000 mg NAC fish oil high dose, and alpha lipoic acid and many more antioxidants. I avoid Cafo meat grass fed if possible.

Have P.E every year my GP said I was lucky. He didn't ask me what I do I'm willing to share with him, but not interested.

Hope it helps someone.


Hydrogen Peroxide

2 User Reviews
5 star (2) 
  100%

Posted by Robert (LA) on 02/05/2023
★★★★★

Editor's Choice

Resolving Pulmonary Fibrosis Lung Scarring

In August of 2021 I went to the emergency room requesting assistance because I had a lack of energy, great difficulty with breathing and just felt bad. I was told to take a seat and I would be seen as quickly as possible.

The next thing I realize I am waking up in a hospital bed and two months had gone by. I had the Delta version of COVID along with pneumonia (which I have had several times in my life). While I recovered quickly from COVID, the lung damage done by pneumonia had caused excessive lung damage and I wasn't able to breathe on my own.

During the initial stay, I was given a tracheotomy to assist in breathing, placed into a medically induced coma to assist in breathing (supposedly I was told because of my age {62} I might not come out of it) and had a gastric tube inserted to provide needed nutrients along with being placed on a ventilator.

My family had been forewarned if I did make it thru and woke up, I could end up being a vegetable because they had no way of knowing if my brain had become oxygen starved while being in the emergency room and not in an actual intensive care unit. At one point in time, the Dr.in charge called my family and told them if they didn't do something desperate, I would be dead in a few hours. My former wife called in a priest who administered last rights and my family started the funeral process on my behalf. Being the royal pain I have always been, I survived and eventually recovered enough to be brought out of the coma.

Spent 2.5 months in the hospital and another month in Rehab having to learn how to walk again. Went home the second week of November.

Had a Pulmonary visit in January of 2022 where I was informed I had Pulmonary Fibrosis and given time, it would take my life. I was also informed I had excessive lung scarring due to the aggressive pneumonia and there was no cure for the scarring and it would get worse as time went by.

I had a laundry list of medications including twice a day steroid inhalers, twice a day Nebulizer treatments, numerous meds and I don't remember any longer what else there was.

I was forced to go on Social Security because I had difficulty just getting up the staircase to my apartment. This sucked!

Stayed with the meds routine and ended up back in the hospital at the end of May 2022 for a week. I was pumped full of steroids and sent on my way. My next Pulmonary appointment wasn't until the first full week of September.

Felt great! .....for about 6 weeks then the congestion started returning and I felt none of the assorted drugs were truly doing any good by the way I felt so I decided it was time to go to plan B.

First hit up this website then started researching medical studies (outside the US) and saw a pattern developing surrounding Hydrogen Peroxide diluted with distilled water and given Nebulizer treatments several times a day.

So I bought a bottle of 12% FOOD GRADE (not that stuff for external use) Hydrogen Peroxide and a gallon of distilled water. Did some basic math and determined I needed to dilute it to 1.5% (to start) and around 4-5 cc's at a time in the Nebulizer. Started doing this twice a day and coughed constantly while using the Nebulizer. The gunk in my lungs were not happy to see this stuff and let me know!

After 3 days of this I could breathe again and I could feel the congestion breaking up! By the middle of August, I felt sooo much better that I could go out for walks again (really short ones).

Kept up with this twice a day until the end of August. Starting in September, I cut back to once a day and increased the dilution ratio to 2%. I was now also increasing my walking distance an it was up to a mile now. Went to my Pulmonologist appointment, explaining what I was doing and got a look like I had just fell off a turnip truck! The Dr.had no idea what I was talking about and couldn't condone it . He suggested I stop this and return to the drugs that weren't doing me any good. Don't hold your breath!

By the end of September I was walking 2 miles a day and had cut back the Nebulizer treatments to once a week having increased the diluted ratio to 3%

In October, cut back to once every two weeks, holding at 3% and increasing my walking to 3 miles a day. By November I was walking 3 miles both morning and evening. Had to stop this because my knees were giving me grief and cut back to walking only once a day.

In December I went in for a Cat Scan of my chest prior to my upcoming office visit with the Pulmonologist in January. By the end of December, I was at 3.5 miles a day in walking forgot more often than not about the Nebulizer treatments.

January 2023 rolls around and I head to my appointment. Met with the Dr.and he had a strange look upon his face. This had me concerned. I asked him if he looked over the Cat Scan results and he said he had (while gently shaking his head). The Dr.told me there was no lung scarring in the lower portions of my lungs and only a small amount up top!

After the Dr.and one of his residents had left the examination room and closed the door I could hear him telling somebody, " I have no idea how he became so dramatically better in only a year". I told him how but, its not part of Western Medicine.

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Replied by jake
(chicago)
02/06/2023

Robert- thanks for sharing your amazing history with hydrogen peroxide. I have just started about 10 days ago spraying 3% drug store hydrogen peroxide several times a day. Every 2 weeks I have an EPO shot for my anemia - my last check showed my level of hemoglobin up over 10, from 9.6,2 weeks earlier. I have also started to run again - several years since the last time. Hopefully my kidneys - stage 3 to 4 chronic kidney disease - are beginning to respond. I've also started with rx digestive enzymes which also may be contributing to the perceived benefits. Other issues I have include diabetes which I control so far with herbs and vitamins.

I BTW am a 31 year cancer survivor of a 9 hour Whipple operation and a following round of chemo at 78 years of age. Hopefully more benefits of HP oxygenation will be forthcoming.

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Replied by Cindy
(Illinois, USA)
02/06/2023
512 posts

Hi Robert! I got a couple of those pocket ultrasonic facial misters for 3%. They worked perfectly for me for cleaning up the junk covid left behind. I still do a couple inhales every once in a while just because I smoke. Seems far more effective than a "mist" sprayer.

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Replied by Wanda
(TX)
02/07/2023
33 posts

Bravo for you taking your health in your on hands!!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

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Replied by Ndiposono
(Malawi)
02/07/2023

This is just amazing. Thank you for sharing. Will have my mum try this-she has a fibrostic lung

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Verbena
(Chicago)
03/02/2023

Hello. I am wondering if you ever had your mom try the hydrogen peroxide?

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Replied by Fouzi Sultan
(Kuwait)
02/07/2023

Thanks for sharing great story. I have one question about the concentration of hydrogen peroxide that you used. 1.5 - 3 % seems very high. Mercola recommends about 0.1 %, while Dr. Brownstien recommends about 0.04% diluted in saline. What is the reference for using such a high concentration.

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Robert
(LA)
02/10/2023

I went by a medical study completed in Mexico to determine the amount. I started out at 1.5% (Food Grade mixed with distilled water) based upon the study. I had no side effects whatsoever.

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Pier L.
(Illinois)
02/18/2023

Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lblBxPU7vo&t=592s. This is Dr. McCullough's recipe as well, I believe.

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Sheila
(Tilllamook or)
02/06/2024
★★★★★

I have done 3% for over 6 months with no issues. ‘The Truth About Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide' book say that is the highest you want to nebulize.

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Replied by peter
(NY)
02/09/2023
1 posts

Do not use pharmacy or store bought hydrogen peroxide. go to health food store or online for food grade product. The later has a form of shelf life enhancing preservative.

>
Cindy
(Illinois, USA)
02/11/2023
512 posts

Can you cite any actual scientific evidence of this claim? I have never had an issue with store-bought 3% hydrogen peroxide nor seen any evidence, whatsoever, to support what are, essentially, rumors about its purity but this claim just keeps going and going.

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Replied by Sheila
(OR)
05/31/2023

Thanks Robert for posting your testimony and details if your journey. I also decided to start food grade hydrogen peroxide

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Replied by Richard
(Florida)
10/21/2023

Hi Robert:

Your treatment is very encouraging. Have you changed anything as far as treatment since your original post? Have you had a new CT scan? If so did any more of the lung scarring go away?

I started this treatment a few weeks ago and hope to do as well as you.

Regards,

Rick

>
Replied by Richard
(Florida)
11/26/2023

Hi Robert:

How are you progressing with the nebulized treatments? I would appreciate your response as I have IPF as well. Do you think the walking also helped clear your lungs?

Regards,

Rick

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Replied by Coleen
(Kennewick, USA)
01/27/2024

Robert, were you ever on oxygen outside the hospital?


Hydrogen Peroxide
Posted by Tiara (India) on 07/29/2013

I suffered from tuberculosis in the lungs. Was not detected in my spit but in the fluid taken out by biopsies... It was in 2007. I finished the course of antibiotics. Completely cured.. In 2009 I had a baby. No repeats even in hormonal change... I have scar in my lungs.. Is there anything that can make it disappear? I read about hydrogen peroxide... But I don't know how to consume it.. What dose? Please. Help me cause I am travelling to the Gulf for employment.

>
Replied by Mmsg
(Somewhere, Europe)
07/30/2013

Tiara, try the h202 inhalation method first.

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Replied by Renato
(Manila)
03/31/2014

Yes, I have the same tiaras problem, I'm also suffering lung scar. I'm working in abroad in midlle east. It's difficult me to travel because of this illness. what is the best medicine to cure lung scar. Thanks!

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Replied by Baqir Shah
(Islamabad)
10/20/2015

My mother was diagnosed with IPF in 2008. She has improved with sunflower oil pulling. In a day or two I'm planing to start Hydrogen peroxide drops delivered to the patient in water. To be on the safe side I will start with 7 drops per glass of water. Lets see if it helps. Prayers can change destinies.

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Replied by Mmsg
(Somewhere, Europe)
10/21/2015

Baqir Shah, maybe start with less.


Laser Therapy

5 User Reviews
5 star (5) 
  100%

Posted by Andrew Hall DC (Sonora, CA) on 01/20/2023
★★★★★

Editor's Choice

I first posted on this site about laser therapy for IPF on 8/10/16. I am way past due for an update. It has been 8 years since my IPF diagnosis. I started with a Class 4 laser right after diagnosis and I continue to use laser faithfully every week. My O2 levels remain at 96-97. One of the VERY important things we have learned from some Japanese and Chinese researchers is that Interleukin 11 is responsible for producing the fibrosis not only in the lungs but the liver as well. The Interleukins are primarily pro-inflammatory cytokines and whenever you have inflammation in your body one or more Interleukins are involved. It was always assumed that Interleukin 11 was pro-inflammatory but we were wrong. Laser is famous for reducing pro-inflammatory Interleukins and the good news is that it reduces/eliminates Interleukin 11 as well. That is why after all these years I still have no additional fibrous tissue on CT scans. To date, I have referred right at around 500 IPF patients to Class 4 laser therapy providers all over the world. I know of only 2 of them that have had more fibrous tissue and it was minimal. Most of the more early stage IPF patients will find some improved O2 levels and more stamina with laser therapy. As I have said before, no one claims laser therapy is a cure, but it is a VERY good way to manage the disease without any side effects that you get with either Esbriet or Ofev. I still don't take any of the IPF drugs and never have. If you or a loved one has IPF you should seriously consider laser therapy for this terrible disease. I am now semi-retired and one of my missions in life now is to help others find a Class 4 laser therapy provider near them. I highly recommend either a Summus laser or K-laser for treatment. With the help of top laser experts we have a protocol that works amazingly well.

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Replied by Verbena
(IL)
01/07/2023

Dr. Hall, thank you for your information. My dad is currently getting laser therapy with a class 4 laser ("robot" type). The doctor said that the protocol he found states it's sufficient only to do the back. He does it for a half hour. Maybe 15 mins x side. Is this okay? He, too, is a chiropractor and seems very proactive. Thank you.

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Replied by Pari
(Vancouver BC Canada)
04/17/2023

Thank you for giving me hope. My mom has this terrible disease and it seems like the medications make her sicker. Can you help me find a Chiropractor in Vancouver that is knowledgeable about this please? Thank you.

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Replied by Sergio
(Ventura, CA)
12/07/2023

Where can I find a laser provider in Chile?

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Replied by Helena
(AZ)
12/24/2023

Dr. Hall,

If you are still helping people with PF, can you recommend a laser therapy provider in Tucson, AZ? Thank you.

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Replied by Helena
(AZ)
12/25/2023

Dr. Hall,

Klaserusa.com appears to have been bought by another company. Is there another website that you can recommend?

regards, Helena K.

>
Replied by Helena
(AZ)
12/26/2023

Here is a link to a video of a woman with PF who was successfully treated with laser therapy. Six weeks after treatment, CAT Scan showed "no evidence of Pulmonary Fibrosis."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqk0pJcCAHc

>
Replied by Jon
(Dallas, Texas)
04/24/2024

Hello I was wanting Laser Therapy in Dallas, Texas. Do you know a Doctor in Dallas to recommend for Lazer Therapy. Jon in Dallas

>
Replied by Gayle
(Kearney, Nebraska)
06/06/2024

My chiropractor has started laser therapy with me. I've had approximately 4 weeks at 2 or 3 times a week. Hoping I'll notice improvement soon, really can't tell yet. But this article brought hope to me. I was very healthy up until a year and a half ago. This is a terrible disease.



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