DMSO
Health Benefits

The Health Benefits of DMSO: What You Need to Know

DMSO and Aloe Vera
Posted by Susan (New York) on 02/08/2013

Bill from San Fernando, can you explain how to do this (from Ted's posting)?

DMSO must be used together with aloe vera oil to prevent inflammation however.

Thanks.

Pain Relief
Posted by Ray (Calgary, Alberta) on 12/21/2012

My wife has Rheumatoid Arthritis so I rubbed and massaged DMSO on her hands, feets, knees, shoulder etc. (mixed with castor oil)The whole process took 30 minutes. After my hands looked like prunes. But it went away an hour later. That night I did the process again. This time the prune look stayed with me all night, no matter how hard I tried I could do nothing. No lotions made any difference. Eventually it cleared up by the end of the day. I didn't use DMSO anymore but just the castor oil. But then 2 days later tried again but with more castor oil (before it was only 50:50 mixture). Now the finger tips didn't get the prune look, though they are a little "tender."


How to Store DMSO
Posted by Vic (Colorado Springs, Co) on 12/15/2012

Hi Dr: I was wondering what type of DMSO you used where you bought it and for what purpose you used it? Thanks Regards. Vic I would like to use it for COPD.

1or 2 teespoons of dmso oraly Please explain?


Pain Relief
Posted by Mariam (Roanoke, Va) on 08/02/2012

DO NOT USE DMSO FULL STRENGTH@ 99% DMSO is a powerful agent and some of you are using it full strength and out of plastic roll on containers which is not advisable. It must be used and stored out of glass as it will take some of the plastic with it if used from plastic. It must be applied from a small glass container to which you have cut it at least by HALF if it is a 50% solution, even with 70%. It will work if used responsibly but it is caustic if you apply it to the skin without diluting it with water or aloe and it will burn and damage tissues initially before they heal at full strength. You could even get a swollen tongue as epithelial cells slough off too quickly so exercise caution. And please remember, Whatever it touches goes into the skin with it.


Recommended DMSO Books
Posted by Robert Henry (Ten Mile, Tn Usa ) on 07/17/2012

HU U MYSTIC SAGE, , , , , , , , , ,

This is not the only natural medical thing that gives me concern that the Traditional Medical folks fight tooth and nail. We have cleaned out our blood vessels with EDTA Chelation and have used the CEDSA to learn of the parasites that have taken us over. That is now a thing of the past. We main line Glutithione to avoid Dementia. We have yet to receive the blood test results that was developed by Purdue U that tells you 5 to 7 years ahead of time that you have cancer on the way and has a protocol to combat the problem. That will be a biggie.

These are all things to keep you from having these problems. I am just a lowly Ch E. But I think DMSO works best as a carrier in an IV situtation. Dr. Jacob is the authority on DMSO, but the Gov. has cowed this great man.

My latest project is to use a lowly Egg Plant solution to treat the Actinic Kerartosis which covers my face before it becomes cancerous.

Love you all ======ROBERT HENRY=====


Recommended DMSO Books
Posted by Mystic Sage (Cutler Bay, Florida) on 07/15/2012

Hi Robert Henry, I read the same book as well. The one book that led me to this one mentioned on your post was titled The Heritic. I believe that is the title, by Mendelsohn(?). He mentioned DMSO aside from many interesting facts that involved the medical field during the fiasco with DMSO and the FDA. I had forgotten about DMSO until I read the first Trudeau book about a year ago and noticed that he mentioned The Heritic book in his. I have been slowly purchasing the books that Trudeau has mentioned in his book to help me along in understanding DMSO. Very fascinating. I still want to find out how I can orally take it if what I have is the 99.9% gel with 10% distilled water. I am psyched out with this stuff as well!


Pain Relief
Posted by Lisa (Thousand Oaks, Ca, USA) on 07/15/2012
★★★★★

Hi Mystic Sage, I first used DMSO back in the 70's as a ballet dancer. My teacher/ mentor who was one of the great American ballerinas had used it throughout her career and familiarized me with it. Back then it was not used by humans (at least not the general public, dancers were using it. ) but she knew of it from the horse world in Saratoga Springs, NY of which they had been using it on race horses for a long time successfully. I continue to use it today in roll- on form. Once applied you do not need to rub it in but do let it dry before getting dressed. It is a powerful conductor so be careful what you are applying with it because it will drive it into the body.

As for MSM, I was introduced to it 16 years ago by my dad. He would always see me in pain from all my teaching and brought it to me in powder form although he had capsules as well. I was skeptical but tried it and my pain disappeared overnight! I was sold! Back then, my dad would add the powder to lotion to use topically since it was not available in creams at that time. Virtually no one knew of it and because I became such a believer in it, I would drive a distance to buy it from the distributor in boxes so I could get a bulk discount. I would give it to dancers and friends who had physical pain. To this day, I recommend it to all my students if they become really sore or if they feel they've injured a body part. I like to use it in powder form best since it goes directly into your system. Capsules are good for convenience but I personally don't think they're as potent. I use Omica which is completely plant- derived and non- petroleum derived. That company offers superior products of all that they carry. The first MSM I used all that time ago was OptiMSM. I always had great results with that as well.

As for DMSO orally, well since I use MSM orally I don't use DMSO that way. You can safely use them together. I have often. Also, there is plenty of information available on the internet on both of these so you really don't need to buy a book. As for the amount of MSM, I base it on my pain factor. Of course, I think it's always best to start low and build up if you aren't getting the results you wanted. I use a pretty healthy tablespoon, sometimes more, in a glass of water but then again, I'm used to these things...

I hope I have answered your questions. Best to you, Lisa


Pain Relief
Posted by Mystic Sage (Cutler Bay, Florida) on 07/15/2012
★★★★★

I purchased DMSO gel 99.9 pure with 10% Distilled water. I had excruciating pain on the tail bone from physical work around the house, as in moving furniture. I figured I would take a chance and just try it so I first used the roll-on with the same percentage of the gel, first. It felt as if the pain was never going to cease but I was not going to give up so easily. I applied DMSO (once) for two days. I thought that if the pain still persisted on the third day, I would consult with a physician. Well, on the third day, I felt no pain at all, as if it were never there!

In reading some of the entries on here, I have become quite curious in exploring DMSO further. I would like to know if everyone here purchases DMSO in the same form. If I am to take it orally, do I purchase a different form other than gel, or can I still use the gel that I currently have? How are many of you on this thread figuring out what measurements are needed for your ailments. Someone mentioned douching and I, too, am curious as to how it can be done and what form is used. Should DMSO and MSM be used together? I am just discovering information about MSM. Another member mentioned a book on it and I am going to purchase a copy. If anyone can answer or outline information on what I need, please do so. I believe in DMSO.

Where to Buy: South Africa
Posted by Deon (Southbroom, Kzn, South Africa) on 05/09/2012

@ Dirk from Vredenburg - you can try any vetinary supplier, they should stock DMSO. There are some veterinarians who also stock it - especially the saddleries and those who specialize in equine medicine. They may also stock hyaluronic acid.


Pulled Muscles
Posted by Boo (Barren Springs, Va) on 03/13/2012
★★★★★

At the end of January, my husband and I were working on a big digging project, doing most of it by hand. While lifting one shovelful of dirt, I felt a "pop" in my neck/shoulder area. It didn't hurt immediately, so I (foolishly) kept on working. A week later found me in the after-hours clinic at my local Dr. 's office. The doctor on call told me to take up to 3 ibuprofen 2x/day. I laughed at him. So he prescribed neurontin. Thus started a 6 week journey through nerve/muscle pain, severe cramps, and rolling muscle spasms. Over the course of time I've taken neurontin (nerve pain), NSAIDS (general muscle agony and inflammation), and finally my own Dr. prescribed Valium (to ease the rolling charley horses from my shoulder to the back of my hand). My Dr. knows that I hate drugs, and the only reason she gave me valium is because I was also visiting a chiropractor and a deep muscle massage therapist.

Finally, I realized that I had to take care of my own self. I've lightly used DMSO in the past, mainly for treating a toenail fungus. This time I got serious.

I made a special trip to the health food store for a bottle of DMSO, dried comfrey leaves and powdered root, some magnesium, kava kava, and a container of MSM lotion.

I poured some of the DMSO into a separate glass container and filled the original up with leaves and root and let it sit for a couple of hours. I didn't measure anything, just eyeballed the entire conglomeration. I wandered to my husband's office, and 'borrowed' a ceramic coffee cup.

Using an unbleached coffee strainer, I poured the mixture into the cup in an attempt to strain it. What a mucilaginous mess.

The next morning I used the resultant slime (for that's what it truly resembled) and rubbed it into my left arm from neck, through the armpit, across the back, and to my fingertips. I smelled STRONGLY of garlic, even more so than when using just plain DMSO. I either got used to it, or it faded away.

Anyway, I thinned the slime with a bit more DMSO, and placed it in a glass dropper bottle to carry with me. I use it several times daily, especially upon rising and before bed. Sometimes I use the MSM lotion first, let it soak in, and then follow with the DMSO/comfrey mixture. Yes, I realize the closeness of MSM and DMSO, but honestly, the lotion has made a big difference in the softness of my skin.

Kava kava is a muscle relaxant that replaced the valium. I used that in conjunction with the magnesium citrate to relax my muscles and get some much-needed sleep.

After 6 days, my chiropractor was fairly amazed at the looseness of my shoulder/neck/arm muscles. My spine was fairly well aligned, signifying that the muscles were no longer tensing and pulling my vertebrae out of alignment. I still have some nerve issues, especially around the elbow, but it has improved more within the last few days than I would have thought possible. No more valium, neurontin, and quite a bit less of the NSAIDs.

So...long story short:

  • Kava kava magnesium to relax muscles (taken before bed)
  • DMSO to use as a carrier for allatoin (comfrey leaves/roots) to heal muscle/tendon injuries applied several times/day
  • MSM lotion for when I don't want to smell like a garlic patch.

Hopefully, this will help someone. Thank you EarthClinic, for your storehouse of knowledge.


Herpes
Posted by Blue Monkey (Toronto, On) on 03/08/2012

Wow I've heard of DMSO more than a year ago but never actually used it. Anyone who suffers from years of cold sores needs to know about the High L-Lysine and Low L-Arginine diet. It is this high ratio that keeps viruses dormant. Stress depeletes l-lysine and so does sugar, exercise and sex and ongoing insufficient sleep which also reduces other stress coping chemistry. Think how many times outbreaks occur in conjunction with these events in your life.

It hs basically come down to my finding only 3 really high L-lysine low L-arginine foods.
PLAIN WHITE YOGURT (goats cuz cows are too polluted)
Quinoa (also Gluten Free and complete protein)
Figs wow what a super food, eat freah and dried year round

Any time I still feeling a tingle I go for the yogurt and it stops and dies very quickly. I only found Quinoa 2 years ago and figs last year. I have wanted to give up dairy for years and can't because I need the L-lysine basically to survive without sores.

NOW I am actually gonna go across the street and pick up a bottle on my way to the kitchen and stop eating yogurt for as long as possible ;^)

Thanks, I'll let you know how it goes. Blue Monkey


How to Store DMSO
Posted by Mweather (Riverside, Ca) on 02/03/2012

There are different kinds of plastic, and I certainly wouldn't pour dmso into an el cheapo plastic bottle that wasn't at least food grade, but everyone should be aware that dmso is shipped from manufacturers in plastic bottles. I'm guessing they are high density plastic. I transfer mine to PET bottles, but obviously glass is good. Avoid metal caps.

There are people selling dmso online who charge more and make a big deal out of their glass bottles, without mentioning their dmso originally came in plastic. Rather misleading. They also claim it is a superior grade - but anyone can buy 99.9% purity at any livestock/feed store. It's the same stuff.

Also - I would hesitate to use a dmso product that was premixed with some other ingredient. You really don't need aloe or honey pulled through every cell in your body. Honey for one can be contaminated with pathogens - that's why we don't give it to newborns. Binding dmso to a potentially contaminated product and sending it past the blood brain barrier is just silly. If you are using dmso as a carrier agent for another ingredient, much better YOU control that ingredient and its purity.


Chronic Allergies
Posted by Deborah (La Honda, Ca) on 01/07/2012
★★★★★

I just wanted to state that I read a thread about some people in Australia taking a few drops of pure DMSO in a glass of purified water daily and decided to try it. I have pain from soft tissue damage from a few injuries and thought it might help. What I did not expect was that my cronic stuffy nasal passages from allergies would almost instantly clear! The first day it happened I did not attribute it to the DMSO but now after four straight days of being able to breathe fully within minutes of taking it; it is now clear there is no doubt. I have ordered the book recommended here and will see what else I can expect.


Internal Use
Posted by Jerry (Sprngville, Al. ) on 12/26/2011

PLEASE : Use food grade DMSO for all human use, buy the book (dmso nature's healer) there are all grades of dmso; horses, swimming, industry, be smart and read up on things before you do harm to yourself.


Acne
Posted by Jessi (Murrieta, Ca) on 12/06/2011
★★★★★

I have been using DMSO for acne and it's the only thing that has seemed to help reduce the inflammation and really help with my severe acne. It does make my skin very dry and flaky, but if I use an oil free moisturizer it seems ok.

I have been using the DMSO morning and night and I just roll it over my face before my other skin care products. There is a slight/mild tingle and stinging for about 5 mins. I am also using on top of the DMSO the Jan Marnin Bioglycolic Bioclear Lotion which I think is working well together with the DMSO. I'm not able to use Benzyol Peroxide because I am allergic to it, so the DMSO has been an amazing cure for my acne. I truly can't live with out it. If you are suffering from acne I would definitely recommend trying the DMSO. I use the roll on 70% DMSO 30% aloe or the 70% DMSO 30% distilled water. It's $10.00 on Amazon .:)

Squamous Cell Carcinoma
Posted by Jennie (Brisbane, Qld, Australia) on 10/20/2011
★★★★★

I applied DMSO (and aloe vera gel from my plant incase it irritated my skin) to the back of my hand to treat a squamous cell carcinoma. I applied both twice a day for around a week and it was no longer visible. I continued to apply it once a day for another week or two until I visited the skin cancer clinic to have the area excised (just in case). The pathology report showed there was no malignancy left. Not only did it get rid of the SCC, it also got rid of the red, itchy and painful scar where the SCC had grown.


Recommended DMSO Books
Posted by Robert Henry (Ten Mile, Tn Usa) on 10/19/2011
★★★★★

A friend sent me the book, The Persecuted Drug, The Story of DMSO. It was published in 1973 but is chilling how ruthless the FDA was then and now. How they punish people for the pure pleasure of it and protect the mamoth drug industry. I worked for Crown Zellerbach in the 60's and was aware of DMSO, but not like this book describes. It was made in their mill in Boguloosa, La. and I knew the supervisor of the plant. He said no employee that worked in that area had ever had a cold or the flu. All employees stole the product to give to old relatives who had arthritis and such. They all knew of it's benifits first hand.

Anyway, I encourage you to buy and read this old book. DMSO is a product that could revolulationize medicine if given a chance. You can use it on a million dollar horse, but it is against the law for you to receive its benifits. Why? It is too cheap and is not patentable.

I promise you that if you read this book and don't shed a few tears, then you are a hard person. The FDA is exposed with this story. They ruined a number of good dedicated doctors to prove that they are omnipotent.

As Dr Jacob says, horses don't know about plecabo's or double blind tests. It it works , they run, if not , then they don't run. Sounds right to me.

Please read the book.

Hair Loss
Posted by Bmartin (San Clemente, Ca Usa) on 10/06/2011

I have been doing a DMSO hair growth trial on myself using DMSO, allantoin and phosphytilserine. The DMSO is there mainly as a carrier but it helps as antioxidant. Our bodies natural response to inflammation is to oxidize the crap out of the injured area which isn't always necessary, especially in autoimmune disorders.


Herpes
Posted by Jty100 (Manchester, England) on 03/13/2011
★★★★★

I also use DMSO successfully for herpes. If an outbreak starts I put DMSO in the base of the spine and also on the sores themselves. Another great discovery I made recently is that my iron stores get low and this is why I am prone to getting outbreaks. The virus and my immune system compete for iron!


How to Store DMSO
Posted by Dr. Gerald (Armadale, Western Australia) on 01/23/2011
★★★★★

Hi Everyone

It is best to store DMSO in glass bottles because as a extremely good solved it can leach it or even dissolve some of the ingredients in the plastic. Having said that there are some plastics which can be used to store DMSO (some manufacturers use a plastic bottle not sure what plastic is used in these). More research needs to be done on the effects of DMSO on various disease processes the potentials are fantastic. I have used 1 to 2 teaspoons taken internally with great success the only side effect is a garlic type odour.

kind regards

Dr. Gerald Veurink


Internal Use
Posted by Francisca (Michelbach-le-bas, Alsace, France) on 12/07/2010

There is a book on DMSO by the same doctors who wrote one about MSM. I only read the MSM one but what I understood is that it is clear that you can use DMSO internally, I even think that it is usually used internally but that because of the odor you can better use MSM. One of the doctors has ran a DMSO clinic in the US for many years, maybe he still does..... If you go on Amazon you will find several books on both subjects.


Internal Use
Posted by Shiloh (Escondido, California) on 12/06/2010

Internal use of DMSO, to Tre from Memphis, Tn, Hi Tre, I have never used DMSO internally, seeing how you have read a lot on the many things you can use this for, just a safety reminder, make sure everything the DMSO touches is very clean, and also if you plan on using capsules or tablet form of vitamins, do a trial run in water first, to make sure it dissolves in 20 minutes or it might not work, but then again DMSO is classified as a solvent, so it might, but just to make sure you might want to put it in a glass to check the disolveability before you put it into the eyedroper. Good luck and please keep us posted on exactly what you did and how well it works.


Internal Use
Posted by Tre (Memphis, Tn, Usa) on 12/05/2010

I finally have some 99% dmso. I have read a ton on what it can do. Now I am ready to mix it with vitamins. I have read people mixing b-12 and b-5. I am going to get some eye drop containers and start the mixing. Question is what is the ratio? mg per ml? do I use just dmso and the vitamin or dilute it with distilled water? how often can I put the drops on my skin per day? also what other vitamins would be safe in this procedure?

Hair Loss
Posted by Karen (Durango, Colorado) on 11/21/2010

A friend of mine uses Cedarwood oil, Yucca Extract, then DMSO on his head & he has new growth. His hair loss was pretty typical of most cases, the first to go are the front & the top of the back of his head. He's pretty encouraged, wasn't taking it very seriously when I started him on it but now he's the one reaching for the bottles.


Where to Buy: Australia
Posted by Passion Cat (Perth, Wa Australia) on 10/29/2010

Premium Grade DMSO in glass bottles is available in Australia from this website www.nikitanaturals.com
The largest is 500ml and it is RTU 70%


DMSO Application Tips
Posted by Water, S-o-t-r (Albuquerque, N.m.) on 10/23/2010
★★★★★

Whenever using DMSO I always mix it with Rhus Tox ointment (available through any Homeopathic Lab or retail source) to protect against skin reactions which are common with DMSO and which were the excuse used by the Feds to not approve DMSO for human use. This has worked with many dozens of persons and hundreds of applications.


DMSO + Lugol's Iodine
Posted by .A (Wind, Ont) on 09/22/2010
★★★★★

In reply to:

Posted by Jane (Hoddles Creek, Vic Australia) on 01/20/2010: Lugol's Iodine and DMSO - a couple of sprays on the skin once only I almost fainted 3 times that day at work and did not repeat the trial, as a nurse in home visits I didn't feel it was appropriate to faint on the job!

Yes, DMSO and Lugol's will do this but when applying this add sea salt internally and selenium and this will offset this.

Remember, the Dmso is carrying the Potassium in the system so it will lower blood pressure so you will need salt to balance it out and the selenium to regulate the iodine--I use this with an SKI/lugols I make with a 5% DMSO solution and noticed the same thing. You sleep deeply and rest like a baby but it can have a drowsy effect when not having salt.


DMSO Application Tips
Posted by A (Wind, Ont) on 09/22/2010
★★★★★

How to Use DMSO

Response- to take anything above the chest 5-10% solution. Anything below the chest you can go higher. Internal use I have mixed it with wormwood in a 5% soultion and have used tsp amounts without any issue--remember this is a solvent so as a solvent this will penetrate lipids and the brain is a lipid so anything north of the chest line- reduce this will apply as well with some of the essential oils. Some are potent solvents and penetrents. Hope this helped.


Ticks
Posted by Rober tHenry (Ten Mile, Tn Usa)
★★★★★

HI U GOOD FOLKS DOIN, , , , , , , , ,

Ticks are bad this summer at our farm even though I have Guineas , which are supposed to rid you of this parasite. We use DMSO for some of our ailments and I had a brain storm. This is one of the most powerful solvents known. When I find a tick, I no longer try to pull it out of my hide. I just cover it with DMSO and it is dead within a few minutes and you can just roll it off. I buy DMSO gel from the Doctor in Oregon who did all the initial research, but you can buy it at any Farm Co-op. If it works on million dollar horses, it will work on you. ATS.

Pain Relief
Posted by The Narrow Way (Clarkston, Mi) on 07/09/2010
★★★★★

Dear Hobart, I read your post on DMSO how when you applied it to your test areas and the skin puckered and felt dry. I have done the same thing on my finger where I have really bad joint pain. It took away the pain but left my finger puckered, pruned and sensitive to touch. Did it go away or is there still damage to the tissue where you applied it? I haven't seen an answer to your post. So I am hoping you can tell me if your skin went back to normal or not. Thank you


Burns
Posted by Pammy (Malibu, California, United States) on 07/03/2010
★★★★★

One of the most amazing treatments I have ever used is DMSO for burns. I have had serious burns and minor burns.

Usually I just open the container and slap a big tablespoon of DMSO on the burn. It is best to do it right away. I keep it on for about 1/2 hr. I keep a jar in my kitchen for the possibilities of getting burned at the stove. It takes the pain away immediately and the pain never comes back. You can apply a little each day for awhile, but I have not found that necessary. I wish every one knew about this as burns can be so painful. And the burns heal up nicely.

It is either Canada or Alaska that they use DMSO in ER for burns. Blessings to all. Pammy

DMSO and B12
Posted by Vicky (Bangkok, Thailand) on 04/29/2010
★★★★★

I plan to do the recommendations of Dr. David Gregg dissolving Vitamin B12 in DMSO:

"The absorption of vitamin B12 requires a highly specialized process which tends to become less effective with age...I realized that if I dissolved vitamin B12 in DMSO, it might carry it directly to my blood stream through my skin. I tried it and the results were dramatic for me, far greater than any impact I had ever felt from oral or sublingual tablets. I put some of my vitamin B12 tablets obtained at a health food store into a two liquid ounce bottle with an eyedropper and filled it with DMSO. It took a couple of days for the tablets to fall apart. Once they did, I put an eyedropper load on one arm and rubbed it in. In approximately one hour I started to feel very good, which was a sense of general strength and well-being."


Sunburn
Posted by Gp (Hobart, Tasmania) on 03/05/2010
★★★★★

This is a remedy I found worked for sunburn:

After working up on our roof one day, my boyfriend and I got a bit sunburnt. Naughty, I know.

I keep DMSO in the cupboard for other uses -- boyfriend's inflammatory back pain, my foot pain (plantar fasciitis) as well as other general inflammatory ailments. I had read it was useful for healing heat burns, so I thought I'd try it for sunburn. Everything I've read about DMSO warns to make sure the skin is completely clean of chemical residues. I guess the only way to be sure is to very thoroughly exfoliate the area, so I did this in the shower with a "skin-peel" cloth (no soaps or other chemicals, it's purely mechanical exfoliation). After I'd towelled off I dabbed on some DMSO with a cotton swab. For anyone who's not familiar with the effects of DMSO -- it provides almost instant relief for pain when applied topically. So the burning stopped as soon as I put this on. I let it soak into my skin for about 5 mins, then with another cotton swab rubbed extra-virgin coconut oil into the skin. Well, what a relief! It took the stinging and heat out of my skin straight away. I repeated this several times that night, wearing a clean cotton t-shirt (with no fabric softener in it, just to be sure). It healed really quickly, didn't peel like my boyfriend's sunburn did, and kept my skin looking really good.

It seems like DMSO helps your skin absorb more of what you put on it, so it stands to reason that the EVCO was more able to penetrate my skin and help it "heal". I'm sure the antioxidant properties of the oil were a help to my sun-damaged skin -- as we all know, sun exposure stimulates production of free-radicals, which can cause cancer. I'm not saying this will stop you getting skin-cancer from sunburn, but it did help heal the damage or prevent it from being as bad as it should have. There are also some studies which have suggested a certain level of protection offered by extra virgin coconut oil, that it helps the skin's natural defences where UV light is concerned. Perhaps this is because EVCO is one of the closest substances to human sebum.


Joint Pain
Posted by Hey (Souris, Pe ) on 02/16/2010

Your friend may want to try MMS for the infection and fever.



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