The below article was originally published in our June, 2011 e-newsletter.
by Daniel P. Kray, Senior Editor
Published June 22, 2011
We like Vitamin C for a lot of things, from prevention to post-infection treatment. That's why we're concerned about the popularity of certain hyped Vitamin C products. A natural cold and flu remedy would be great, but what sort of extra baggage is hitching a ride on these packs of Vitamin C supplements? Turns out, a pair of unnecessary ingredients, aspartic acid (or asparagine) and sucralose, are often tagging along. You may have to look into the fine print of the ingredients list, but you'll be surprised at how often they show up.
L-aspartic acid is one of our non-essential amino acids. The body makes it, so we don't need to get it from our diets. We definitely need it for energy creation, nerve function, and a host of other bodily activities. But like most good things, too much can be bad. In excess, aspartic acid becomes an excitotoxin, revving the neurons and nervous system up so high that nerve damage can be a result. In effect, excitotoxins cause our neurons to die from excitement!
In fact, if the facts behind Aspartame make you uncomfortable, aspartic acid is a large part (40%) of the reason. In our bodies, this artificial sweetener breaks down into phenylalanine, methanol, and aspartic acid. Methanol is just plain toxic, but the overdose of amino acids can likewise do great harm. Sucralose (Splenda) is of course much the same thing as Aspartame-an artificial sweetener. This one mostly passes out of the body without being metabolized, but some 15-20% does not pass out of the body immediately. Since sucralose is an organochloride (an organic chlorine compound), many of us are justifiably concerned about the possibility of introducing free chlorine molecules into our bloodstream and tissues. Makes you nostalgic for good old belly-expanding glucose!
Since the liver can produce aspartic acid whenever bodily levels are low, we never experience true aspartic acid deficiencies, so there is no need to get it through supplements. Easy then, we won't take aspartic acid supplements. That is, unless we don't know it's there in our other supplements! Now, weight lifting supplements often contain aspartic acid along with a medley of the other amino acids, so there is an issue there. However, for the Earth Clinic community we're more concerned about products like Ester-C (the brand) and Emergen-C, both of which add aspartic acid to their Vitamin C supplements. Just check out the Other Ingredients on the fine print on this ingredients list to see for yourself.
Products advertised as energy boosters frequently contain aspartic acid, as do whey powder products. Airborne and Super C Vitamin C products do not seem to use aspartic acid (please do not read that as a general endorsement); however, Airborne and Super C do contain sucralose as a sweetener, as do FRS Healthy Energy products.
Additionally, you're likely to find aspartic acid in these products:
- Various collagen formulas
- _____ Liquid Aminos
- Many potassium-magnesium supplements
- Many folic acid tablets
- Many lipoic acid supplements
- Many Nature's Plus products
- Some Solgar vitamin supplements
- Some Nutritech supplements
Now, plenty of foods naturally contain aspartic acid as well, and the body is happy to find it there. It is nature-made, not man-made (unlike sucralose). We don't want to alarm anyone, just let you know what you're potentially putting in your body. Toxic levels of this amino acid are definitely possible, so take a look at your supplement labels and make the best choice for your own health.
The following Earth Clinic reader contributions (and a note from Ted) should help you make the decision that is right for you.
Vitamin C and Excitotoxins
Catherine from Seattle, WA writes: "I was fighting a sinus infection last week after landing in California and went to a Whole Foods to get some Vitamin C. I decided to get Emergen-C to add to water because it had a really tempting fruity flavor. Immediately after taking my first packet (which was delicious), I felt a weird sensation in my head and then I got really edgy (as in bad mood edgy). I read the ingredients on the box and sure enough, the vitamin C used in this brand is Aspartic acid, an excitotoxin. The Emergen-C also contained "natural flavors", aka MSG. I waited 24 hours and tried again to see if I would have the same side effects. Again, within a minute of drinking the packet, I got the same sensation in my head. My question is, are you doing more good or harm to the body when you take this form of vitamin c?!!"
Ted from Bangkok, Thailand replies: "Aspartic acid is a well known excitotoxin and so is monosodium glutamate or MSG. In the long run it's going to destroy the immune system through a neurodegenerative disorder. Once the excitotoxin is destroyed the immune system is down. Now in a pharmaceutical formulation adding this results in the need to take that since you get sicker and so you might feel some relief, the long term is it's going to make a person sicker, which result in greater sales for product with excitotoxins added. Now imagine a child who is a borderline autism, ADHD, these can result in many other neurodegenerative disorders and metabolic acidosis. As for me decades ago I took accidentally soft drinks with aspartame resulting in deafness, but also a permanent partial macular degeneration of the eyes. So the systematic destruction is almost wholesale if given long term use. Luckily Emergen C is not sold in Thailand, although some friends of mine have given me this, I don't take it. I prefer to buy bulk vitamin C and mix them myself. There are other excitotoxins, but aspartic acid, aspartame, monosodium glutamate, and glutamic acid are the most well known...
Therefore most effervescent products sometimes they are not labeled so I ended up calling the factory sometimes. One easy way to measure excitotoxin poisoning is that the urinary pH suddenly become very acid, such as pH 5.5 or lower and even taking more baking soda barely raise the pH long enough to be satisfactory. Such as it can't raise the pH for the entire day. It also takes weeks for the pH to be near normal after taking b complex and baking soda for a week or two. A long term taking of this can also resulted in higher urinary sugar and damaged pancreas, besides damaging the brain. One of the worse advertisement I have seen is Michael J. Fox supporting Diet Pepsi, which contains aspartame, and he himself has Parkinson's disease, which will make such conditions much worse. The remedy is not to take aspartame for Parkinson's disease or to undergo stem cells, since it's not yet legal at the moment and stem cell research has been blocked for at least 8 years. Methylene blue taken at 2 drops at 0.1% concentration might reverse some of the effects of excitotoxins as it is one of my remedies for Parkinson's disease also.
Taking excitotoxins is a long term damage that may lead to degenerative disorders, metabolic acidosis, and lowered immune system. Therefore I would avoid them as best as I can.
Supplements Brought on Rage
Wes from Webster, TX writes: "I'm 220 and work out almost everyday. I started taking 2000mg of vitamin C. Ester C tablets. A few days later I noticed I was very easily enraged. I did this for about 4 weeks and decided it wasn't worth it. I recently started taking and animal pack vitamin package. After taking for several days I noticed the same effect. Read the ingredient 2000 mg Vitamin C. So I stopped taking it. Is there anyway to counteract the aggressiveness. IE some other vitamin."
Christine replies: "This afternoon, I visited your site and noted a comment by a reader who said that Ester C made him enraged. It's not the Vitamin C, it's the aspartic acid in the Ester C product. I verified this with an aspartame activist. Aspartic acid is an excitotoxin, a poison that kills brain cells. Yep, it's the same stuff as in aspartame. All of the studies done on Vitamin C were done with sodium ascorbate, which is a type of chemically buffered Vitamin C. It's best to take it as a powder in water, because you can get gastritis if you take too many pills."
© 2011 Earth Clinic. All Rights Reserved.
Troutdale, Or, Usa
YOU CAN MAKE YOUR OWN VITAMIN C POWDER!!!! Do this at home and you will know you are taking a high quality supplement straight from the source. Organic citrus fruits have all the good stuff in their pulp and peel.
-Cut the peels into thin strips and lay them out on cheesecloth, or use a dehydrator to dry out the peels. After a few days, or when fully dry, put the dried peels into a coffee grinder to make into a powder. One spoonfull is said to be all you need for a whole day. Add the powder to your food or drinks, store in an airtight container.
You can use organic grapefruit, tangerines, oranges, lemons or limes. :-)
St. John's, Newfoundland And Labrador, Canada
Taking Vitamin C in Solution
Hi Everyone...With good reason, Ted has long advised that Vit C in the form of Ascorbic Acid should be converted to its Ascorbate form because this form is more alkaline, more absorbable and uses up less bicarbonates from your body's digestive system.
This means getting out your mortar and pestal, crunching up your Ascorbic acid tablets then adding water and finally adding the baking soda(sodium bicarbonate) -- let it finish fizzing -- then drinking it down.
I take Vit C most days with lysine and discovered something useful.
Today, I just filled a glass full of water and plopped in 4 X 500 gm tablets of ascorbic acid. Then I just added 1/4 to 1/2 teasoon of baking soda to it. It fizzed away and dissolved for about three minutes and then the tablets simply disappeared into solution as Sodium Ascorbate -- a bit like Alka-Seltzer !!
Then I just scraped off the residue of bubbles off the top of the solution (which contains all the insoluble binder additives like mag stearate, calcium Trihosphate, micro-cellulose, starch etc.) and drank it down.
So, no tablet crunching necessary really.
Mobile, Alabama, Us
San Fernando, Luzon, Philippines
The below article was originally published in Earth Clinic's June, 2011 e-newsletter.
Vitamin C - More than Just an Anti-Oxidant
By Bill Thompson, Contributing Writer
Published: June 22, 2011
Vitamin C History
As far back in history as 1747, a Scottish physician called James Lind discovered through a simple experiment that, by taking lime or lemon juice every day, British sailors avoided contracting scurvy. He didn't know why this was, but from that point on, all the British Navy started issuing daily rations of lime juice, which is probably how the nickname "Limey" originated for Brits in the old days.
Two hundred years later, a Hungarian called Albert Szent-Gyorgyi actually discovered Vitamin C and got a Nobel Prize for his efforts in 1937. An interesting and active man, during WW 2 Szent-Gyorgyi was a key member of the Hungarian resistance. Adolf Hitler himself issued a direct order for his arrest. After the war Szent-Gyorgyi's research interests moved towards studying the effects of free-radical damage as a reason for cancer onset. Another interesting fact about Szent-Gyorgi was that he always supplemented at least 1 gram of Potassium Iodide every day - that's 1000 mgs of KI (which is about 8000 times higher than the current RDA for iodine). He lived to the age of 93. In those days, people had no fear of iodine supplementation. A well-know protťgť and supporter of Szent-Gyorgi's work, Ralph Moss, has since carried on his wonderful research work.
Later research by Dr Denham Harman enabled more understanding on the dangerous effects of free-radicals on the body to further enhance the work of Albert Szent-Gyorgyi. Harman's essential discovery and proof was that anti-oxidants like Vitamin A, C & D actually help to extend human life by eliminating free-radical damage. But something that was always ignored by peer reviewed writings on Dr Harman's research was the fact that he regarded BHT(Butylated Hydroxytoluene) as a super anti-oxidant. He also discovered other conclusive facts from his anti-oxidant research along the way that have been completely and conveniently ignored for years by organizations such as the FDA and WHO:
"In 1961, Harman published a study showing that the degree of polyunsaturation in fats had a dramatic effect on cancer rates in mice. The most highly polyunsaturated dietary fats [vegetable oils] were found to be the most carcinogenic.
In 1968 Harman published a dietary antioxidant study showing that the food preservative BHT fed over a lifetime to mice produced a 45% increase in life span. Harman became concerned that although many of his studies showed an increase in average lifespan by antioxidants, none showed an increase in maximum life span."
-- Source -- Wikipedia
Then came Mathias Rath's and Linus Pauling's research on the usage and correct dosages of Vitamin C which broke so much new ground - this research consequently gave birth to the well-known Orthomolecular Medicine movement, whose approach was to use natural nutritive methods at correct dosages discovered through intensive research in order to alleviate and cure disease. They both went on to discover the usefulness of high dose Vitamin C (as Ascorbate) and high dose Lysine - a simple amino acid protein pre-cursor -- as a very simple cure and preventative for heart disease, arteriosclerosis, high blood pressure etc. It was found that Vitamin C simply acted to remove the actual arterial plaque blockages while the Lysine removed the Lipoprotein(a) or Lp(a) from the blood in order to stop the plaque reforming again. In talking about arteriosclerosis, Pauling always liked to refer to this problem simply as "arterial scurvy" in order to drive his point home about the importance of correct dosages of Vitamin C in the human diet.
And, when natural epigallocatechins (green tea tannins) were added to the vitamin C and Lysine protocol, this treatment would stop cancer tumor growth, prevent angiogenesis, and also help to prevent metastasis. Few people know about the Pauling-Rath research because the drug industry has done its utmost to suppress or spoil this vital research information for years.
Ted from Bangkok has also recommended the use of larger dose Vitamin C with larger dose Lysine (sometimes combined with aspirin), which can help to cure some strains of ordinary flu as well as H1N1. He also recommends this as part of his cure protocol for cancer and as a cure for chlamydia, herpes, pneumonia and dengue fever.
The simple point I am making here is that Vitamin C is far more than just an anti-oxidant. What comes out from all the independent research is that Vitamin C is also a vital ingredient for building or repairing collagen or body tissue; Vit C supports and greatly aids and boosts the immune system; Vit C can chelate and remove dangerous heavy metals from the body; it also greatly helps in accelerating cross cell-wall nutrient transport and absorption of nutrients. This is why, for instance, Vitamin C should always be taken with iodine supplementation - Vitamin C simply accelerates the absorption of iodine, overcoming any iodine transport problems - which is not only useful for thyroid problems but is also used in every other iodine cell receptor in the human body as well.
Correct Vitamin C Dosages
The current recommended daily RDA for Vitamin C is about 75 mgs.
In his own research on Vitamin C, Pauling mentions that humans, apes, bats and guinea pigs cannot produce their own Vitamin C internally because they lack one vital liver enzyme - so they have to get their Vitamin C from an external food source. However, cows, horses, goats, dogs and cats and many other mammals all produce their Vitamin C internally simply by metabolizing glucose into Vitamin C in their livers. Pauling further goes on to say that just a small goat automatically and internally produces 12 grams of vitamin C on average per day and in times of stress can up that amount to 18 grams a day.
Cows, horses and goats rarely, if ever, get heart disease or cancer.
So now how do 12 grams of Vitamin C produced automatically and naturally everyday in a small goat stack up against the RDA Vitamin C dose of 75 mgs recommended for humans?
I personally take 1000 - 3000 mgs of Vitamin C every day (much more if I'm ill). I also make sure that I eat plenty of fruit - mangoes, melons, apples, oranges etc - on a daily basis. Thus I get the benefit of Vitamin C as ascorbate but I also benefit from the fruit, which contains the added benefit of bio-available Vitamin C co-factors such as bio-flavonoids, ascorbinogens, rutin and tyrosinase as well as many mineral co-factors that also work as associated enzymes to further enhance Vitamin C's positive effects on the body.
Linus Pauling regularly took about 8 - 10 grams of Vitamin C (sometimes twice as much as this) per day for years and years and he died at the ripe old age of 93.
When Should I Take Vitamin C?
Lastly, you can take Vitamin C, which is a water soluble vitamin, either during mealtimes or outside mealtimes. But, as Linus Pauling proved from his own research, if you take Vitamin C at mealtimes then you will automatically lose 1/3 of your dose through normal intestinal excretion. So if you take Vitamin C - it's always best to take the ascorbate or alkaline form outside mealtimes - your body will simply absorb more of the Vitamin C dosage and you will thus get a much greater benefit.
The other oily vitamins such as Vitamins A, D, E and K should all be taken at mealtimes for proper digestion and emulsification by the pancreatic lipase enzymes and bile respectively.
What Supplement Form is the Best?
This section applies to all vitamins, minerals and amino acid supplement forms that you can buy - not just to Vitamin C. Let's go through these one by one:
I would avoid this supplement form for the following reasons:
- This form contains many caking additives (to form the tablet) such as Calcium Diphosphate, Magnesium Stearate, Stearic Acid, plant cellulose etc. Some people are even allergic to some of these caking substances.
- The waxy, hard tablet forms will not be easy to break down and digest in the body. To test this - just drop the tablet into a glass of water with a little vinegar. If it doesn't dissolve into solution in about 20 minutes. - the tablet is useless.
- Caking agents are waxy, sticky substances that help form the tablet. This wax will also tend to embed and trap the nutrient supplement in the wax, which will then not be absorbed by the intestine.
- The best way to take tablets is to first crush them up using a mortar and pestle and then to dissolve the powder in a glass of water. Note that the water will look opaque and unclear due to the heavy presence of these waxy and insoluble caking residues.
In my opinion, this is the worst possible supplement form of all to take. All the disadvantages that apply to the tablet form also apply to the multivitamin form. But I would also add these disadvantages as well:
Multivitamin forms always contain lesser amounts of vitamins, minerals and amino acids than even the RDA. This is because it would be physically impossible to put all the correct RDA dosages for vitamins, minerals and amino acids into one multivitamin pill. If you did, the pill would probably be bigger than a ping pong ball!! That's why I think the multivitamin concept - all beneficial daily nutrients in one pill - is so utterly ridiculous.
Minerals such as Iron, Zinc, Magnesium, Manganese and Calcium, for example, are all combined into one multivit pill. All these minerals, when taken in the wrong form, are mutually antagonistic and will compete for absorption pathways in the intestines. No use at all.
Many multivitamin forms contain various synthetic (patented) minerals, vitamins and amino acids etc. These forms are not handled in the body as well as the natural more bio-available food forms. Such multivit forms are usually also more expensive because they contain these synthetic, patented nutrient forms.
I read an interesting article awhile ago written in an alternative health magazine. The journalist went to a sewage works to interview the sewage manager. During the interview the manager happened to mention that every day, whenever he went out to inspect the human sewage - he would see hundreds and hundreds of multi-coloured pills in the sludge - multivitamin pills - all undissolved.
Liquid Tonics, Dissolvable (fizzy) and Chewable Forms
I wouldn't trust these forms because, generally, they will include additives such as aspartame, flavourings, high fructose corn syrup or sugar and other additives to make them taste better. Also, the liquid tonic form will have a greater tendency to oxidize in the sunlight. Avoid.
These should contain just the powdered herb, mineral or vitamin and nothing else - no additives or caking agents etc. This powder should be contained in an enteric-coated capsule. This form is OK - my number 2 choice.
My top choice. This is the best form if you can get it - no additives or preservatives or caking agents. When I first bought my powdered Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid) and dissolved the dose in a glass of water with some baking soda powder to convert it to ascorbate - after the fizz - it was crystal clear, just like a simple glass of water.
© 2011 Earth Clinic. All Rights Reserved.
Camarillo, Ca / Usa
Eureka, Ca, Usa
Ten Mile , Tn
Thanks for all the advice I got here. I ended up buying Acerola because that was what my pharmacy advised as it is a natural vitamin C. My question is, although I saw 1000 on the box and assumed that it was mgs it seems that it only contains 170mg which is very little. They say one shouldn't take more than one pill (it is those chewable pills). I don't know whether maybe being natural Acerola is more potent than other vitamin C or that this is just one of those things they write on supplements which more often than not doesn't make sense. Before, while I was taking normal Vitamin C I was taking 3000mg to 4000mg which, as I have a lot of allergies, I think is good.
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
I have several bad teeth. Broken and bare. Two years ago my old filling started two break up and my was mouth full of pain and inflammation. After $300. Dollar dental bills and no end in sight, I increased my ascorbic acid intake to 8 to 15 grams a day to counter the inflammation and pain. Two years later I now have 5 broken and bare teeth with no pain. I cannot afford dental work for another four years when my house is paid off. Also my health has never been better. I take all the basic vitamins and minerals with added supplements which I have done for 50 years. Only thing I have ever seen a doctor for is injuries.
My doctor is F R Klenner. He died in 1984 and his vitamin therapy is used today around the world. You will find his papers on the internet. He has been given the AMA's highest recommendation, by blackballing his name and work for over 60 years. If you do not take at least 5 grams of ascorbic acid a day, you are in trouble or will be. Even a 140lb goat makes 5 grams a day in its liver and up to 60 grams a day when sick or injured. Goats also do no not ingest processed foods, sugars, oils and junk food and neither do I.
Which is the best kind of vitamin C one can take? Is it normal one, is it Ester-C or something else? Pills, powder, solvable? And although many books advise quite high doses of Vitamin C there are experts, including my homeopathic doctor who believe that it can help cancer develop. Is this true?
Princeton, N J
Ny, Ny, Usa
I used to have angina. Probably for 2-3 years. Never severe but painful nonetheless. What brought about the end of angina was megadoses of Vit C. I had been taking probably 20+ grams/day for stubborn allergies in the spring of the year. I continued to take it at night for dust mite allergies at bedtime instead of medications. I noticed one day in the fall that I hadn't had any chest pains for quite a while. It's been I think two years now since I had any. Vitamin C megadoses, according to Linus Pauling and Matthias Rath, allow the arteries to heal which reverses plaque buildup in all but completely blocked arteries. They also recommend adding L-Lysine and Proline to your regime along with the C.
Looking for a cheap ascorbic acid powder (prices are so high now out here in Hawaii).
Since a particular store chain which has it's own variety at a good price (and claims to not use any GMO products) is not out here, I've been looking online for non-GMO. Most of them do not say whether they are from GMOs or not, so I have to assume they are, since ascorbic acid is widely extracted from corn. Or else, the Q&A section answers that question elusively, like saying "i use and trust the product...", or one answer even stated that "the product is not non-GMO free"... what??? What does that mean? It's either GMO or not!
I guess you can't mention brand names here(?), but is there another way to find this online besides writing to every company? The bulk products have the best prices, but are probably from GMOs. Any suggestions?
Should the ascorbic acid be listed as the "L" variety?
Sorry if this has already been asked - I don't have time to read through all the postings here. Thanks
I added Baking Soda to my ACV treatment and had many of the side effects others mention on this site. Baking Soda lowers Vitamin C levels and this can lead to symptoms of scurvy. I had to do a lot of research to find this out. I woke up with a purple spot/bruise on my leg and that convinced me, as I had not bumped into anything to bruise myself. The purple bruise looking spot is a sign of scurvy. Luckily, it was recommened to me to take Vitamin C for Constipation. I was sooo sick (my asthma was out of control) last night and the night before. I did not know that Vitamin C actually helps Astmatics.
I took 6 mgs of Vitamin C last night in error. I picked up the wrong size of measuring spoon!!..luckily! I had been up the prior two nights coughing up mucus, but last night I slept through the night. I couldn't figure it out since I needed to take bendryl the other nights just to not choke on the mucus. It appears that the 6 mg of Vitamin C did it's job to replenish my Vitamin C and to help with my asthma.
I woke up with the usual morning junk to cough up and spit out. I took 1000 mg of vitamin C and it stopped this problem dead in it's tracks. People need to read about what vitamin C does, especially for people with Asthma and food allergies. Also, the baking soda should NOT be recommended on this site.
It depletes the Vitamin C. If someone is already low in Vitamin C it can cause Survy Symptoms as it did in me.
I love this site, but I think promoting Baking Soda that depletes Vitamin C is wrong. Also, I love Apple Cider Vinegar and it is promoted her as the top natural relief, but I never hear any talk of vitamin C. It works wonders for Asthma, Hay fever and a load of Respiratory illnesses and other illnesses.
Vitamin C cured my wifes' bacterial vaginosis. She used 250mg of ascorbic acid by breaking off 1/4 of a 1000mg caplet and using it as a suppository. Within one day the odor was gone. She plans on continuing this for a week or so to make sure it's gone.
How do I buffer Vitamin C powder? In a book I am reading right now Linus Pauling says that he used to buffer his Vitamin C by dissolving it in orange juice but how does it work given the fact that orange juice is also an acid? Or else he added bicarbonate of soda but he doesn't say how much. Right now I am taking 2g powder and 4g in tablets. I don't want to take more tablets because of the fillings as I am afraid that if you take many a day they will do you more harm than good. Also, in the book he says that he used to take 12g in the morning but I ask myself whether he took them in many glasses of water as I find 2g in a glass of water already quite strong.
San Fernando, San Fernando, Philippines
I started taking increased doses of Vitamin C a number of years ago at my doctor's recommendation for a tendency to bruise easily. One of the other unexpected benefits is that my sinuses cleared up. I used to wake up sneezing and would continue throughout the morning, sometimes through the entire day, year round. After experimenting with different dosages, I am now on a maintenance level of 2000 mg of Vitamin C daily and this keeps my allergies under control usually 50-51 weeks out of the year. Occasionally, I may have a flare-up and need something else. When that happens, I stir 1 teaspoon of ground Turmeric into an 8 oz. glass of water and drink it. Within 15 minutes, I am breathing freely once again and no more sneezing!
Is food grade Citric Acid powder a viable type of vitamin C supplement? I bought this thinking it was a healthy alternative to tablets, capsules and then realized that maybe ascobic acid was really what I wanted. Is there any benefits from citric acid or a way to take it for supplementation?
My partner woke up with a very heavy cold and so we decided, following an article we had read to take 6 grams of vit c every 20 mins until he hit near diararea. At that point you back off and just take around 20 grams every 3 hours. It totally worked. It was incredable to see. There he was sneezing and coughing, runny nose and then it all stopped. Like turning off a tap. But make sure you keep with it for at least another 3 days. Look up cold on the vit c website for more info. I also felt one coming on and did the same thing. No cold.