I recently had the same thing happen to me as Barbara from Portland, Oregon below.
Ten years ago I tore the meniscus in my right knee. If I was careful, I could manage the pain, but could no longer do the hiit exercises that I enjoyed. No jumping or squatting, or I would be up all night from the pain. I tried all the supplements that Barbara wrote about, plus all the types of collagen. Every time that I thought I sensed improvement, I would get more adventurous with my exercising only to find out quickly that I had been wrong.
Two months ago, I started taking 6 grams of vitamin-c to see if it would help me to avoid covid. One day, I realized that my knee felt better, so once again I tried adding the exercises that had caused painful flareups over the last ten years. Nothing happened. I gradually became more aggressive, but the knee held up. I am now back to doing routines that I had to stay away from for so long, including some of Cathe Friedrich's advanced step workouts, which had been totally off-limits. There are times that I feel a little bit of soreness, but it is always short-lived.
I don't know why it has worked, but I am grateful.
I have made many, many batches of liposomal vitamin C for my family to treat whooping cough in the last month or so. I have tweaked the procedure and will share what I have learned so hopefully you can skip some of the learning curve.
I prefer to use sunflower lecithin granules but ran out of what I had and was not able to get more. I got sunflower powder. Bad idea. I couldn't get it to mix and there would be a thick sludge in the bottom of my jar, so I was skeptical about how well assimilated the vitamin C was. I bought Non GMO soy lecithin granules (Now brand) and they worked as well as the sunflower lecithin granules. For short term, I felt it was the best solution I could come up with.
Tools to Make Liposomal Vitamin C
- a blender
- jewelry cleaner
- Measuring cup
- Pan to warm the water
- 1 1/2 cups distilled water
- 3 T. lecithin granules
- 2 T. sodium ascorbate powder (I used nutribitoic)
Warm 1 cup distilled water. Water should be warm, but not too hot to touch. Put the 1 cup warm water and 3 Tablespoon lecithin granules in a blender. Mix on low for 30 seconds. Let rest. Repeat mixing it up and letting it rest for several minutes while preparing the vitamin C. Heat 1/2 cup distilled water in the pan, again until warm but not super hot. Remove from heat. Add 2 Tablespoons sodium ascorbate powder. Mix until it is melted.
Assuming the soy lecithin granules are completely incorporated, add the vitamin C water and blend gently.
Pour mixture into jewelry cleaner. Turn jewelry cleaner on. I use a straw to mix now and then. I would do 5 - 6 cycles as it had an auto shut off. This gave 12-15 minutes total time. Sometimes I would forget about it for a little while and then resume. I think that is okay.
Pour into a quart jar. Put a lid on it. Store in the refrigerator for several weeks. (I would go through a jar every day or less, though! )
One tablespoon of this liposomal C contains about 1 gram of vitamin C. Because liposomal vitamin C is more absorbable than powdered sodium ascorbate, it is equivalent to 5-8 grams of vitamin C powder.
So my 19 year old son who had been taking upward of 30 grams of sodium ascorbate a day was talking 5-6 Tablespoons daily of liposomal C for the same or better benefit, and it seems to be easier on the gut.
I would dose three times daily, first thing in the morning, mid afternoon and before bed. Ideally on an empty stomach but I figured better to dose even if food were taken than not at all. I would give a juice chaser.
Hope that will help others with liposomal c making!
~Mama to Many~
The below article was originally published in Earth Clinic's June, 2011 e-newsletter.
Vitamin C - More than Just an Anti-Oxidant
By Bill Thompson, Contributing Writer
Published: June 22, 2011
Vitamin C History
As far back in history as 1747, a Scottish physician called James Lind discovered through a simple experiment that, by taking lime or lemon juice every day, British sailors avoided contracting scurvy. He didn't know why this was, but from that point on, all the British Navy started issuing daily rations of lime juice, which is probably how the nickname "Limey" originated for Brits in the old days.
Two hundred years later, a Hungarian called Albert Szent-Gyorgyi actually discovered Vitamin C and got a Nobel Prize for his efforts in 1937. An interesting and active man, during WW 2 Szent-Gyorgyi was a key member of the Hungarian resistance. Adolf Hitler himself issued a direct order for his arrest. After the war Szent-Gyorgyi's research interests moved towards studying the effects of free-radical damage as a reason for cancer onset. Another interesting fact about Szent-Gyorgi was that he always supplemented at least 1 gram of Potassium Iodide every day - that's 1000 mgs of KI (which is about 8000 times higher than the current RDA for iodine). He lived to the age of 93. In those days, people had no fear of iodine supplementation. A well-know protg and supporter of Szent-Gyorgi's work, Ralph Moss, has since carried on his wonderful research work.
Later research by Dr Denham Harman enabled more understanding on the dangerous effects of free-radicals on the body to further enhance the work of Albert Szent-Gyorgyi. Harman's essential discovery and proof was that anti-oxidants like Vitamin A, C & D actually help to extend human life by eliminating free-radical damage. But something that was always ignored by peer reviewed writings on Dr Harman's research was the fact that he regarded BHT(Butylated Hydroxytoluene) as a super anti-oxidant. He also discovered other conclusive facts from his anti-oxidant research along the way that have been completely and conveniently ignored for years by organizations such as the FDA and WHO:
"In 1961, Harman published a study showing that the degree of polyunsaturation in fats had a dramatic effect on cancer rates in mice. The most highly polyunsaturated dietary fats [vegetable oils] were found to be the most carcinogenic.
In 1968 Harman published a dietary antioxidant study showing that the food preservative BHT fed over a lifetime to mice produced a 45% increase in life span. Harman became concerned that although many of his studies showed an increase in average lifespan by antioxidants, none showed an increase in maximum life span."
-- Source -- Wikipedia
Then came Mathias Rath's and Linus Pauling's research on the usage and correct dosages of Vitamin C which broke so much new ground - this research consequently gave birth to the well-known Orthomolecular Medicine movement, whose approach was to use natural nutritive methods at correct dosages discovered through intensive research in order to alleviate and cure disease. They both went on to discover the usefulness of high dose Vitamin C (as Ascorbate) and high dose Lysine - a simple amino acid protein pre-cursor -- as a very simple cure and preventative for heart disease, arteriosclerosis, high blood pressure etc. It was found that Vitamin C simply acted to remove the actual arterial plaque blockages while the Lysine removed the Lipoprotein(a) or Lp(a) from the blood in order to stop the plaque reforming again. In talking about arteriosclerosis, Pauling always liked to refer to this problem simply as "arterial scurvy" in order to drive his point home about the importance of correct dosages of Vitamin C in the human diet.
And, when natural epigallocatechins (green tea tannins) were added to the vitamin C and Lysine protocol, this treatment would stop cancer tumor growth, prevent angiogenesis, and also help to prevent metastasis. Few people know about the Pauling-Rath research because the drug industry has done its utmost to suppress or spoil this vital research information for years.
Ted from Bangkok has also recommended the use of larger dose Vitamin C with larger dose Lysine (sometimes combined with aspirin), which can help to cure some strains of ordinary flu as well as H1N1. He also recommends this as part of his cure protocol for cancer and as a cure for chlamydia, herpes, pneumonia and dengue fever.
The simple point I am making here is that Vitamin C is far more than just an anti-oxidant. What comes out from all the independent research is that Vitamin C is also a vital ingredient for building or repairing collagen or body tissue; Vit C supports and greatly aids and boosts the immune system; Vit C can chelate and remove dangerous heavy metals from the body; it also greatly helps in accelerating cross cell-wall nutrient transport and absorption of nutrients. This is why, for instance, Vitamin C should always be taken with iodine supplementation - Vitamin C simply accelerates the absorption of iodine, overcoming any iodine transport problems - which is not only useful for thyroid problems but is also used in every other iodine cell receptor in the human body as well.
Correct Vitamin C Dosages
The current recommended daily RDA for Vitamin C is about 75 mgs.
In his own research on Vitamin C, Pauling mentions that humans, apes, bats and guinea pigs cannot produce their own Vitamin C internally because they lack one vital liver enzyme - so they have to get their Vitamin C from an external food source. However, cows, horses, goats, dogs and cats and many other mammals all produce their Vitamin C internally simply by metabolizing glucose into Vitamin C in their livers. Pauling further goes on to say that just a small goat automatically and internally produces 12 grams of vitamin C on average per day and in times of stress can up that amount to 18 grams a day.
Cows, horses and goats rarely, if ever, get heart disease or cancer.
So now how do 12 grams of Vitamin C produced automatically and naturally everyday in a small goat stack up against the RDA Vitamin C dose of 75 mgs recommended for humans?
I personally take 1000 - 3000 mgs of Vitamin C every day (much more if I'm ill). I also make sure that I eat plenty of fruit - mangoes, melons, apples, oranges etc - on a daily basis. Thus I get the benefit of Vitamin C as ascorbate but I also benefit from the fruit, which contains the added benefit of bio-available Vitamin C co-factors such as bio-flavonoids, ascorbinogens, rutin and tyrosinase as well as many mineral co-factors that also work as associated enzymes to further enhance Vitamin C's positive effects on the body.
Linus Pauling regularly took about 8 - 10 grams of Vitamin C (sometimes twice as much as this) per day for years and years and he died at the ripe old age of 93.
When Should I Take Vitamin C?
Lastly, you can take Vitamin C, which is a water soluble vitamin, either during mealtimes or outside mealtimes. But, as Linus Pauling proved from his own research, if you take Vitamin C at mealtimes then you will automatically lose 1/3 of your dose through normal intestinal excretion. So if you take Vitamin C - it's always best to take the ascorbate or alkaline form outside mealtimes - your body will simply absorb more of the Vitamin C dosage and you will thus get a much greater benefit.
The other oily vitamins such as Vitamins A, D, E and K should all be taken at mealtimes for proper digestion and emulsification by the pancreatic lipase enzymes and bile respectively.
What Supplement Form is the Best?
This section applies to all vitamins, minerals and amino acid supplement forms that you can buy - not just to Vitamin C. Let's go through these one by one:
I would avoid this supplement form for the following reasons:
- This form contains many caking additives (to form the tablet) such as Calcium Diphosphate, Magnesium Stearate, Stearic Acid, plant cellulose etc. Some people are even allergic to some of these caking substances.
- The waxy, hard tablet forms will not be easy to break down and digest in the body. To test this - just drop the tablet into a glass of water with a little vinegar. If it doesn't dissolve into solution in about 20 minutes. - the tablet is useless.
- Caking agents are waxy, sticky substances that help form the tablet. This wax will also tend to embed and trap the nutrient supplement in the wax, which will then not be absorbed by the intestine.
- The best way to take tablets is to first crush them up using a mortar and pestle and then to dissolve the powder in a glass of water. Note that the water will look opaque and unclear due to the heavy presence of these waxy and insoluble caking residues.
In my opinion, this is the worst possible supplement form of all to take. All the disadvantages that apply to the tablet form also apply to the multivitamin form. But I would also add these disadvantages as well:
Multivitamin forms always contain lesser amounts of vitamins, minerals and amino acids than even the RDA. This is because it would be physically impossible to put all the correct RDA dosages for vitamins, minerals and amino acids into one multivitamin pill. If you did, the pill would probably be bigger than a ping pong ball!! That's why I think the multivitamin concept - all beneficial daily nutrients in one pill - is so utterly ridiculous.
Minerals such as Iron, Zinc, Magnesium, Manganese and Calcium, for example, are all combined into one multivit pill. All these minerals, when taken in the wrong form, are mutually antagonistic and will compete for absorption pathways in the intestines. No use at all.
Many multivitamin forms contain various synthetic (patented) minerals, vitamins and amino acids etc. These forms are not handled in the body as well as the natural more bio-available food forms. Such multivit forms are usually also more expensive because they contain these synthetic, patented nutrient forms.
I read an interesting article awhile ago written in an alternative health magazine. The journalist went to a sewage works to interview the sewage manager. During the interview the manager happened to mention that every day, whenever he went out to inspect the human sewage - he would see hundreds and hundreds of multi-coloured pills in the sludge - multivitamin pills - all undissolved.
Liquid Tonics, Dissolvable (fizzy) and Chewable Forms
I wouldn't trust these forms because, generally, they will include additives such as aspartame, flavourings, high fructose corn syrup or sugar and other additives to make them taste better. Also, the liquid tonic form will have a greater tendency to oxidize in the sunlight. Avoid.
These should contain just the powdered herb, mineral or vitamin and nothing else - no additives or caking agents etc. This powder should be contained in an enteric-coated capsule. This form is OK - my number 2 choice.
My top choice. This is the best form if you can get it - no additives or preservatives or caking agents. When I first bought my powdered Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid) and dissolved the dose in a glass of water with some baking soda powder to convert it to ascorbate - after the fizz - it was crystal clear, just like a simple glass of water.
© 2011 Earth Clinic. All Rights Reserved.
I've written quite a bit about Vitamin C on EC, and just thought that I would put down some other thoughts, which will, hopefully, be helpful.
First, Vitamin C is not just a simple supplement. Most people regard Vitamin C as just a vitamin supplement called Ascorbic Acid. This is also not strictly true. Vitamin C actually consists of a group of natural chemicals -- usually found together in varying amounts in fruits/veg -- that work together in a synergistic way with Ascorbic acid/ascorbates to benefit our bodies. Some of the other substances involved in Vitamin C's effectiveness are:
And as far as I can understand, these additional compounds or co-factors are all required in quite small amounts(probably used as catalysts, enzymes, coenzymes etc.), along with the ascorbic acid and this is what really constitutes Vitamin C. Also, since Vitamin C itself is so poorly researched, there are probably alot of these co-factors that haven't even been researched or discovered yet.
From the above, and logically, it would therefore make great sense to both eat fruit and vegetables high in these Vit C co-factors whilst also supplementing with ascorbates or ascorbic acid since these co-factors are bound to enhance and improve the overall effect of taking Vitamin C supplements as well.
Here are some other facts about Vitamin C, some of which equally apply to the supplementing of any other vitamin or mineral:
* Always take Vitamin C as sodium ascorbate (more alkaline form) and not as ascorbic acid. If you take the ascorbic acid form, then you must always take it at mealtimes, so that it can be converted by the bicarbonates produced in the duodenum during digestion to ascorbate and then it will be absorbed. So why not convert the Ascorbic Acid to ascorbate first, then there would be no need for conversion from acid to salt form during digestion and you could also take even more ascorbates outside mealtimes?
* If you take Vitamin C during mealtimes, then a third of this vitamin will be excreted and lost after digestion by the intestines. So, if you are taking, say, 900 mgms of Vitamin C then 300 mgms will be excreted and lost. By the way, this is not all bad, because taking Vitamin C also provokes a healthy intestine.
* Linus Pauling, during his own Vit C research wanted to know how much vitamin c was excreted in a 24 hr period, so he took 10 grams of vitamin C and collected and checked all his own urine during a 24 hr period. He found that 15% of the Vit C taken was lost through his kidneys over this 24 hour period.
* It is always best practice, as Ted from Bangkok has said on this site numerous times, to take all water soluble vitamins, minerals and amino acid supplements in their powdered or capsule forms and not as tablets. I was forced to use the tablet form of Ascorbic Acid(I couldn't find the powder form here in the Philippines where I live) and convert this to ascorbates using Baking Soda, but the resulting solution always looked cloudy, dirty and tasted funny because of all the adhesive fillers such as Calcium Triphosphate, Magnesium Sterate, Stearic Acid, Microcellulose, Starch etc. But, on my recent trip to Bangkok, I managed to purchase pure chemical grade Ascorbic Acid powder fairly cheaply and after I convert my powder dose to ascorbates using BS, the solution is now always crystal clear with no more unnecessary impurities and has a far nicer taste.
I've also stated that I believe that there is no such thing as a rigid RDA concerning vitamins, minerals and amino acid supplementation. As evidence and proof of this, here is an extract from a significant essay by Dr Frederick Klenner on Vitamin C which lists all the reasons why dosing is so difficult:
1. The age of the individual;
2. Habits -- such as smoking, the use of alcohol, playing habits;
3. Sleep, especially when induced artificially;
4. Trauma.-- trauma caused by a pathogen, the trauma of work, the traumaof surgery, the trauma to the body produced accidentally or intentionally;
5. Kidney threshold;
7. Physiological stress;
8. Season of the year;
9. Loss in the stool;
10. Variations in individual absorption;
11. Variations in "binders" in commercial tablets;
12. Body chemistry;
15. Body weight;
16. Inadequate storage.
Extract from Dr Klenner on Vitamin C -- This is also well worth a read !!
In my own protocol of vitamins and minerals, I now just take mega-doses of Vitamin C as ascorbate (about 5 grams/day in split doses) outside mealtimes as well as dessicated liver and kelp tablets at mealtimes every day. I also take Ted's alkalizing remedies regularly and now supplement magnesium chloride and iodine(both in larger amounts than recommended by the FDA or WHO) either transdermally or orally on a weekly basis. I also have a body friendly diet as Ted recommends. On a monthly basis, I regularly detox heavy metals using sodium thiosulfate as well as taking my own tri-herbal anti-stone or anti-calcium protocol consisting of a decoction of chanca piedra, heart vine, tumeric and neem leaves. I also take Ted's anti-fungal borax remedy once or twice a month as a preventative. That is essentially my protocol, but I have extra backup in the form of lysine, aspirin, methylene blue, zinc gluconate, betaine HCL, protease enzymes, cayenne, clove oil etc. that are all taken on an "as needed" basis if any illness does occur.
Taking Vitamin C in Solution
Hi Everyone...With good reason, Ted has long advised that Vit C in the form of Ascorbic Acid should be converted to its Ascorbate form because this form is more alkaline, more absorbable and uses up less bicarbonates from your body's digestive system.
This means getting out your mortar and pestal, crunching up your Ascorbic acid tablets then adding water and finally adding the baking soda(sodium bicarbonate) -- let it finish fizzing -- then drinking it down.
I take Vit C most days with lysine and discovered something useful.
Today, I just filled a glass full of water and plopped in 4 X 500 gm tablets of ascorbic acid. Then I just added 1/4 to 1/2 teasoon of baking soda to it. It fizzed away and dissolved for about three minutes and then the tablets simply disappeared into solution as Sodium Ascorbate -- a bit like Alka-Seltzer !!
Then I just scraped off the residue of bubbles off the top of the solution (which contains all the insoluble binder additives like mag stearate, calcium Trihosphate, micro-cellulose, starch etc.) and drank it down.
So, no tablet crunching necessary really.
This is only the second time that I have posted, and I wanted to thank you for your kind words regarding my first post.
I promised that I would update everyone IF I was able to finally conquer sciatica. Well, I DID IT! I said that I was going to try Magnesium as suggested on your site. Didn't seem to help me.
What finally did the trick was "flooding" with Vitamin C per Dr. Frederick Klenner's web site, Doctor Yourself. Please check out the testimonal under Back Pain (at the bottom of that page). Unlike the testimonial, I was not completely out of pain on the fourth day; it took me six days.
I took two grams (2,000 milligrams) every hour I was awake. What I finally figured out was that the man that wrote the testimonial was taking a teaspoon every hour (that's four grams).
Just in case you are concerned at the high level of Vitamin C, it is a water soluble vitamin which the body will throw off if it can't use it. There is no known Vitamin C toxicity to humans.
The reason it worked is very simple. I had a Vitamin C deficiency severe enough to cause sciatica. Wish I had known that before!
What I also didn't realize was that the intermittent backaches that I have had in the last five years or so were also a Vitamin C deficiency and a precursor to the more severe sciatica! I have not had even a hint of a backache since I began treating the sciatica.
I am now on a maintenance dosage of Vitamin C of about 10 grams per day (still working out exact amount) which I will remain on for the rest of my life. You know when the body cannot use the level of Vitamin C that you are taking. You get diarrhea and just cut back a bit until you have the right level for you.
My primary reason for advocating natural alternatives for myself is safety. It was a blood pressure generic Lisinopril that triggered my sciatica and my descent into an unfathonable Dante's inferno. I will use SAFE alternatives in the future as often as possible.
Good health to everyone this year!
Re: Polio and Vitamin C Side Effects -
The side effects from a massive dose of vitamin C is diarrhea. At 400 mg per kilo taken every 2 hours, if we assume a person's weight is 60 kilos, the total dose amounts to 24,000 mg. I believe the dose is high. However, my own approach towards killing any virus, or bacteria lies in the frequency of dose rather than the amount of dose. The other is a combination of other supplements has synergy and hence the dose can be further reduced by 1/2.
Vitamin C has antiviral properties and it's weakly antiviral and this is why the dose is so large. However, it's possible to reduce from 24,000 mg to just 12,000 mg hourly dose. My experience in killing viruses is that the frequency of dose is ideally between 30 minutes to 1 hour. Therefore it's also possible to reduce from 12,000 mg to just 6000 mg if this is taken every 30 minutes. That's an equivalent of 6 tablets/capsules every 30 minutes. There is an indian shilajit (humic acid) that can be applied on the skin when the powder is mixed with water, and taken internally, it's a very broad spectrum antiviral. If that's taken 4 or 5 times a day, I believe the hourly dose of vitamin C 12,000 mg can be reduced also to 6000 mg. If the aspirin were used, the vitamin C will be synergistic and you just need 3000 mg every hour when it's taken with aspirin 500 mg dissolved in a cup of water for only 6 doses per day, not exceeding 3 or 4 days. Most of the polio viruses should be gone in a matter of days (theoretically speaking), and 25 mg of zinc is taken once a day for a week.
The iodine lugol's solution is taken every 3 hours 4 drops for every 3 or 4 hours. These are combination of remedy that should reduce the vitamin C dose to just 3000 mg on a two hourly dose, should make the approach more easily to do in practice. Iodine is kept up for over a week or so. Hence the remedy is carried only for a short period, if done right (in combination or frequency) the viruses usually go away quickly. If they viruses do not die within 3 days to one week, I believe the remedy needs to be redo until which if done properly viruses get killed rather quickly within a matter of days.
For instance, I got the swine flu viruses correctly both dose and frequency and it's a one day cure. A few may last up to 2 days, before swine are completely dead, however, one day was more than enough for that case. As in polio if done right (not necessarily this remedy), it should be killed by a week or so.
I was having a very heavy menstrual period, I was miserable I could not go out any where this was my second month and the only thing the nurse from my doctor's office recommended was to rest. My doctor said I was a candidate for a D&C if my period would continue the same.
I was recommended to use vitamin C 1 to 2 1000mg pills a day. I was on my 3rd day of heavy torment and I took 2 1000mg vitamin c this made my heavy flow to ease up and I continued my regular menstrual period the next two days. I was recommended to use vitamin c 1000mg one week before my period one to two pills a day and take it all thru the last day of the menstrual period.
This really works I am back to normal and happy to share this with other women who are suffering what I did.
I started taking high doses of Vitamin C to help ward off a cold virus. For the past several weeks I took 5-10 grams of Vitamin C. Then I noticed my knee pain disappeared.
I am a runner/cross country skier who has virtually stopped these activities due to pain in my right knee.
For 7 years I have tried glucosamine, calcium, MSM, and NSAIDs. I don't like taking NSAIDS. However, the other remedies did not relieve the pain and inflammation. Therefore, I have been tolerating the pain and have discontinued using NSAIDS.
I was very surprised to find that the Vitamin C use correlated with complete pain relief and reduction of inflammation. So I stopped the C for a week and the pain returned. I have resumed the C and the pain is gone again.