As this disease is "supposedly harmless", I have spent a considerable time trying various treatments to try and cure various symptoms with mixed but mostly positive results. I think Ted is a genious, and I am eternally grateful to him, for the knowledge that he has shared through this terrific forum.
Unfotunately, I feel I have too many posts in this topic, and so I lose some credibility; here is the real deal on my current opinion on this disease, and why I have had so much trouble curing it.
I feel that this is a candida-related disease. I have seen so much yeast come from my mouth, that I can't perceive it being anything else. I have seen a white yeast and also a brown yeast. And I have coughed up some yeast as well (from my lungs)(both colors).
In the last 10-years, with my smoking, 4x I have sneezed up blood(like a bloody nose, kind of). I always used to blame the smoking until 1-year ago(4th time), I coughed up a black bug(crab-like)... and I haven't had blood or congestion since, inspite of still smoking. I believe the bug was eating the yeast in my lungs.
Swallowing Vinegar cured my blue warts(on my fingers)(gram-negative anerobic bacteria?).
Swallowing 1/8th teaspoon borax cured my twitchy eye(Blepharitis); however, leve some dark lines where people usually get wrinkles.(is it Tinea, who knows?)
Cured some age spots(Tinea) with Head & Shoulders Blue (Selenium Sulfide).
Cured some un-itchy jock-itch/eczema with the H&S Blue.
As Psoriasis and Eczema patients are almost always Selenium deficient, I have convinced myself that I am Selenium deficient.
Had a Herxheimer-effect with Garlic (this stuff is awesome; has selenium), but wife and family complained I was stinky(on 5 super-garlic pills/day).
Cured a brain-fog issue with a b-vitamin(thiamin-deficiency?).
I think as a big beer-drinker, you are what you eat, and 30% of my calories came from a yeast product(beer), and so I got a yeast problem.
Except for the two days of brain-fog, I can't really say I've felt very sick from 10-years of this disease.
The last symptom I had... at 13, I had no Gin-allergy. At 21, I had hives on my neck from Gin. Last week, I had 1-bump from Gin on my neck... and none the next day. Juniper Oil kills candida(see Psoriasis topic). Perhap a yeast-infected thyroid-gland.
Been mouth-washing with a dime-full of shampoo, 4x per day. I have a red tongue for the first time in 10-years. Been using a toungue scraper and taking 500 micrograms of Selenium Selinite as well, though. I am confident that Selenium deficiency will cure me. However, I feel bad that I have so many posts already in this thread. I will not post again for 6 months unless I'm cured, but will post in 6 months in case I'm not (for Historical Purposes). I will reply to questions though.
Today I felt like a million bucks. No smoking related congestion. I felt the best I've felt in 5-years. Doing all the bad stuff with no problems. However, I am not cured; so I have no right to give anybody advice yet. I have faith that Selenium deficiency is the root cause of this disease (Ted says MS is the same thing(White-Muscle Disease in animals)... I think he has this one right, and I was too slow to hear him. Impatience is frustrating though.
For historical purposes of symptoms, I have 7 cherry angioma spots that have popped up in the last year (never had them before), and fordyce spots(oil glands on the lips). These have never been associated with lichen planus or candida... but when I googled cherry angioma, I saw an accound saying someone got these when they had a yeast problem; they cured the yeast problem, and these didn't go away; so I wanted to second the report.
EC: Rich, if you'd like EC to remove any of your posts on this page, just let us know which ones...
Kansas City, Missouri
Houston, Tx, Usa
Walnut Creek, California
New Orleans, La
I've changed protocols slightly. I believe I have this thing in full reversal. However, 6 months going down doesn't mean two days going back up.
As I said, I am confident that I had a staph infection for 6 months that weakened my immune system, and brought on a candida problem. I cured the staph with mega c(sodium ascorbate)... now I'm dealing with the candida problem (which I believe fungus is the cause of lichen planus, candida or not).
The wart like things that come and go, are probably freindly bacteria eating the fungus. No more fungus, and the warts disappear(and you have crappy looking finger-tips).
With the fish oil, I can't say whether or not this produces friendly bacteria that kills the fungus. Perhaps it does. Perhaps this is just bad bacteria infecting fungally dammaged cells. Unclear.
I've been killing off fungus very quickly with Niacin and Garlic Pills(Selenium and Sulfur). Uninating several grams of Candida per day.
What comes along with this is that if you kill your fungus, this "friendly bacteria" looks for a new place to attach to. This is called a "dye-off-effect" by the iodine guys. You get a stuffy nose, and feel like you have a cold. During this time period, you can increase your vitamin c(Sodium Ascorbate) substantially without getting diarrhea. I am at 30,000 mg today.
Here is my new protocol:
Selenium Sulfate Head and shoulders with 2 teaspoons of borax (for the dandruff).
Colgate Total Toothpaste (triscolan plus Sodium Laurel Sulfate)
Sodium Ascorbate (6,000 - 30,000 mg)
Niacin (built up from 500mg to 1,500 mg)
Garlic (built up from 5,000mg to 15,000 mg)
Iodine drops (built up to 1,100 mcg per day)
I mix the iodine and vitamin c with milk, take a niacin pill, and 2 garlic oil pills. If I feel a runny nose, then I skip the next dose, and put vitamin c in milk(4000 mg), or orange juice(2000 mg).
Since I've added the garlic, I had a sore live for 1 day, followed by a sore kidney for 2 days, followed by garlicy breath(hit my lungs), followed by the worst gas in my life and diarrhea(intestines).
With the mega-c, the die-off effect comes and goes, a couple hourse at a time (no big deal).
This new protocol is a modification of Linus Pauling's protocol for Multiple Sclerosis, plus Ted's. It has been postulated in the past that Candida overgrowth in the intestines could lead to MS. I don't know if that is true or not, but I've noticed substantial improvement in 2 weeks on it.
Other problems: you might get a sore back. This could be from the liver, kidney, or the intestines. Make sure you drink lots of extra water.
Additional Notes: don't go to fast, build up gradually at your own pace. The no-flush niacinamide and time-released, stay away from. You want the flush, that means you're actually killing something. Having a doctor actually monitor your blood and liver would probably be a good thing. If you go too fast, you can damage your liver.
Warning on Borax, which I've recommended in the past: Too much borax can explode blood vessels. I cured my blepharitis with it... but I've also seen some blood vessels turn red. Perhaps Borax cures atherosclerosis, however, if you see and signs of red blood vesels, especially next to your eyes, or on your genitals, you better stop using the stuff until those heal. As I've said in the past, ted has chosen wise doses for a reason. There are some studies on Borax that say you can explode blood vessel in the genitals if you go to high on this stuff. What is too high is hard to tell, but if you see red blood vessels then stop.
I've had success with both internal and external use of this substance, but caution should be used.
ps. Ted, your writing is brilliant. I needed alot of time to catch-up. Where should I send the check to? :)
Boca Raton, Fl
Kansas City, Missouri
I'm 32, smoked 5-10 ciggarettes/day drank 5 beers/day for 15 years.
At 25 I was diagnosed with Lichen Planus... Doctors gave me cortisone cream, didn't help. Found this site a few months ago, and have done some independant research since. Ted is awesome, by the way.
This post is a little fast and loose, without sources.
Basically, ENT Doctors commonly use Baking Soda, Vinnegar, and Borax added to other stuff, and categorize these as anti-infectives.
It appears that DCA, which is currently being tested in Canada as an anti-cancer drug is a combination of Bleach, Vinnegar, and BakingSoda... which would seem to kill a bunch of infections.
Back to my problems. 3 months ago: I've got a white tongue, with bumps on the side of my mouth. I usually wake up congested, but it clears before 10am. Often I feel congested, and that makes me want another cigarrette.
I played the watch the clock game, and cut my smoking to 1 ciggarettes/day (after 7 pm)(back up to 3). I cut my drinking to 1 day per week. I started running 2 miles per day. It didn't help with my problems, although I lost 20 pounds.
I THINK that I have this thing figured out... I will post a follow-up in a few months, if I'm cured.
Studying Ted's "anti-infectives", first I tried going alkaline (borax and baking soda). This cleared my lungs, but made the bumps in my mouth worse.
Now I've gone in reverse, with the Apple Cidar Vinnegar only, and the bumps in my mouth are disappearing.
So here's my theory. There is a mayo-clinic study from a few years ago that says that most chronic sinus problems are caused by a fungus. As I had a yeast-like taste in my mouth, it was probably Candida. I went to the doc, and got some fluconazole, since the baking soda seemed to be clearing my lungs. Success on clearing my lungs... at least temporarily.... however, the bumbs in my mouth seemed to be getting worse.
It appears that these bumps are a "secondary infection", probably bacterial or viral. Since one problem was cured, I switched to 2 TBSP or Apple Cider vinegar, 2x per day. I had an immediate outbreak of Lichen Planus on my fingers, which appears to be dissapearing completely after a week. Additionally, the bumps in my mouth are 50% reduced.
There was a new study that came out last week that said men have cleaner hands than women, and are less likely to get skin infections, due to their hands are more acidic.
This lichen planus stuff kind of looks like warts, with a dark(blue) center. Since I've been taking ACV... the center of this stuff is red, like it's healing.
So I think I had Candida with a secondary infection, and the secondary infection(Lichen Planus) is cured by ACV.
I need some time to completely cure this stuff... but I think I did this in reverse. First start with the ACV to cure the secondary infection(Lichen Planus), then clear the yeast infection (Baking Soda or Borax or Flucon-azole).
On the white tongue... listerine doesn't help, biotene mouthwash doesn't help. Flouride toothpaste doesn't help. Brushing my tongue with either Baking Soda or Borax or Both and/or combining Hydrogen Peroxide, will turn my tongue completely red.
It will turn white again within 2 days... I've got some kind of infection. This stuff seems to help, though. I've been very impressed with that 20-mule borax stuff, in spite of the fact that the white tongue comes back.
Borax is not to be feared, just follow Ted's small dosage. His dosage is well reasoned.
Seattle, WA, USA
Boca Raton, Fl
Boca Raton, Fl
Boca Raton, Fl
Boca Raton, Fl
Hernando , MS.
Boca Raton, Fl
Fremont, Ca, Usa
San Jose, Ca
I have been itching for months now from Lichen Planus and tried many of your hints which all work for a short time. However I have discovered something that seems to work better. This hint came from a Nurse Practitioner in a Dermatology office.
When using steroids ( I have cleobesterol which didn't seem to help much) apply the cream and then on top put a barrier! This can be something like a product with silicone or glycerine ( silicone glove, others) or just plain glycerine. This helps the steroid stay and do its work. I felt the itch much relieved after 2 days of doing this. Give it a try. Hope it helps.
Brisbane, Qld Australia
lichen planus -- I use Bleach it works for me. http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-131080893.html
Hernando , MS.
Better But With Side Effects
I've had Oral and Vaginal LP for the past 9 years. In the begining it use to come and go and I would use Clotbetisol until it gave me a mouth full of thrush and then use Difulcan to get ride the thrush. Eventually, the oral LP worsed and no longer went away. I've lived the past 6 years with a WHITE tongue and mouth and the incredibly uncomfortable Valigal symptoms. It eventually escallated to my stomach and I've developed additional autoimmune issues, mostly food allergies, a thyroid issue, and my system is over come with Chronic Candididis. Everything upsets my mouth and stomach now and I eat a "very" limited diet. Although I'm very healthy, my diet is VERY restrictive.
2 years ago I was seen at an LP Special Study at UCSF, under went patch test, biopsies, numerous blood tests, swab tests, and monthly appointments and was given Placquinel which I have been on since... 2 years now. After a year on it my eyes started weakening and I was told that this might happen.
April brought about some stress for me and triggered a massive upheavel for my LP both types.
In desperation, I searched the internet to find this fabulously informative website. I immediately started a Borax treatment and honestly within hours saw a huge difference in my mouth! For the 2nd and 3rd days I experienced yeast "die off" as a raging sore throat, I added Asorbic C, and made it thru the brainfog, headaches, and muscle fatigue. However now I'm experiencing bloody nasal junk... It this part of the cleansing?
How long should I remain on the treatment? Are there any reactions that I need to be aware of or watch out for?
The treatment has literally blown me away as today is my 7th day and my mouth is a beautiful pink color my other areas feel much better and I look forward with exultation to reading more about what other people are experiencing and getting feedback.
Is there an area for Dr. Tom's treatments?
Live~N~Well In Aptos, CA
Aptos, California, USA
Flat Rock, Nc
Albany, New York
I followed Ted from Bangkok's advice to treat my oral lichen planus with 1/8 teaspoon daily with Borax (not boric acid) & it has really worked. My Ph is not too acidic. Topical steroids did nothing & homeopathic remedies only a small (but appreciable) improvement. After 2 months the lesions on my tongue were totally gone & now after 4 months the deep striations/veins on my inside cheeks are hugely improved. This will be a long battle. Taking any more than this amount resulted in interference with my bowel movements & overly soft stools. I can now eat normally again though I minimise my sugar intake & steer clear of hot spices...I don't smoke or drink alcohol. Thanks Ted!
Houston, Texas, U S Of A
Santa Cruz , Nm
I was just diagnosed with Lichen Planispolaris, losing my hair for 9 months. I have read so many cures on this site...where to begin!! I applied tea tree oil, lavender oil mixed with aloe. Also, on alternate days put on a solution of borax and water. I also drink 1/8 to 1/4 teas. borax in liter of water about every other day. I am confused though as Ted says to give your body a rest after a few days, but I don't see this in reader's cures. I have only been doing this for about 10 days, hair loss seems a little less. My urine ph runs about 7. in the AM but changes to acid during the day till night when it is at 5. Been drink 2 T ACV with 1/2 teas. soda 2 or 3 times a day. How can I make it less acid? Thanks for any help or comments.
Boca Raton, Fl
Boca Raton, FL
Boca Raton, Fl
Kansas City, Mo, USA
I have Lichen Planus on skin. By chance I discovered that citronella oil has made the red purple marks almost diminish. I had a lemon scented lotion that did not smell very good. So I added about a dozen drops to a 8 ounce bottle of lotion. After using for only a week my skin condition really improved. Just wanted to put it out there for others to try.
Lichen planus is difficult, I've had it for 7 years now. Hate it. But recently I've been using pure virgin coconut oil on my skin have not had an out break yet and always have it in Dec. near christmas time and in July. I've been using it for about 3-4 months. If one appears it just dries up in a day or so, haven't had a huge break out to know what the reaction would be. My suggestion try extra virgin coconut oil.
I found an ointment with comfrey at our big health food store (actually, they had several). It is comfrey in a base of olive oil and beeswax.
Sadly, I'd have to rate this "better but not cured." It does help to control the itch, but the underlying condition remains.
So, I will continue the search...
I have had the condition Lichen Sclerosis for approx. 15 years but about 6 weeks ago a blister type sore erupted over an old childhood scar on my left shin. It was extremely itchy and rapidly grew in size and redness. My doctor informed me it was Lichen Planus and wrote out a prescription for cortisone ointment. Not wanting to use such a toxic medication I tried various other more natural preparations such as Witch Hazel and Calamine Lotion. Nothing worked and the area affected was rapidly increasing. I then decided to make some Comfrey Root Ointment.
Eight days ago I commenced treatment by spreading the ointment on a cotton pad and taped it firmly over the Lichen Planus area. I changed the pad morning and night. The result has been nothing short of miraculous. The itching disappeared almost immediately the first pad was applied. Since then the size of the sore has gradually moved inwards and the surrounding tissue is now a very pale pink. It looks healthy and I may even end up losing the original scar. I am seriously considering using it on my Lichen Sclerosis. The ointment was simplicity itself to make.
A good guide is to go to You Tube and look up 'How to make Comfrey Ointment Part 1' (Part 2 is also there). It is a demonstration by someone called Sue Goodwin. I followed her instructions and it was so easy. At the end of the process I added some essential oil of lavender, just to make it smell nice really. As long as you have some Comfrey Root you can access you can make at least three jars using the method shown.
It is now 12 Days since I started using it on my Lichen Planus and each day it gets smaller and healthier looking. As with all herbal remedies I will continue with the ointment until it is well and truly cleared up.
Hi, my experience with Lichen Planus, firstly an oral specialist prescribed cortisone, not to take it but to rinse out the mouth 3 times a day to reduce the inflamation and help repair the damage. However I am quite drug sensitive and couldnt do any more than three days. I was informed that Lichen Planus is an auto immune system disorder, and there is no cure.
However I have been dealing with a naturopath in Qld, Mermaid beach, this wonderful lady does hair analysis, and has helped me enormously, she found I had a multitude of problems that stressed the immune system.
But Lichan Planus lives off sugars and yeast, so the first thing is to give up both these things in the diet, and I did if for nearly a year, I make my own sourdough, that was easy. What was really hard was sugar, the sugar in tea and coffee was a breeze, but the alcohol was not, not that I am a drinker but I do enjoy an occassional beer or wine or whisky, they were to me like treats, not daily and never a hangover even but just something nice at the end of the week.
And no chocolate, or desserts, no vegemite etc
But the Lichan Planus was gone for some months, but sneaking a bit of sweet stuff from time to time, and now stressful times with business being busy and Christmas coming I have tender gums again, so back to hard core diet, it's shit full, but if anyone out there has any better input that would be helpful, that would good great.
Mansfield. Vic. Australia
I've had oral lichen planus for 8-10 years and latley light outbreaks on wrist/ankle. With me, my oral lichen planus will often clear up completely, and always get milder, if I stick to a lower carb diet. While I'm not overweight I confess to preferring to eat lots of carbs typically from sweets. When I ease off, my condition always improves - often to miraculous degree. Today on internet I searched 'lichen planus diet' and found a similar post from a dentist stating a patient of his experiences same. I'm convinced there is a link between proper body funtioning (caused by better diet) and ease of auto immune probs like lichen planus. Likewise my other auto immune issue of painful joints also worsens with poor diet, and goes away when less carbs consumed. Other posts on earth clinic have suggested links to vitamins, acidity, etc for treatment/cure. I think perhaps when your body functions properly when you eat right, burning fat as it should, that your body heals itself of some odd ills. And conversely, when you eat poorly, your body's systems are adversely affected, sometimes presenting in various ways such as lichen planus for some of us.
I'd love to know if others experience same. I hope this helps some others. I will try to stick to better diet. It's tough though. To remove my lichen planus completely I have to drastically reduce carbs, then I can have sugary desserts, pasta, etc. 2-3 times a week without recurrence of lichen planus. What's tough for me is falling off wagon and getting into bad cycle of too much sugar too often - if I don't break pattern my lichen planus remains and can worsen. But the good news for all is it CAN be done. I recall many times where I broken pattern, fixed my lichen planus, and ate well for MONTHS at a time without issue. The real trick is this: when you see even the smallest hint of lichen planus returning, you've been eating too many carbs and need to ease off.
I battled for years - and still - with glucose intolerance and candidiasis after nearly dying of peritonitis (inflicted by a surgeon carelessly performing a laperoscopy. Went into hospital with vague stomach pain, came out with a punctured bowel).
Banish all sugar and yeast and living as close to nature as possible worked a miracle! Zero confidence left in the medical profession and pharmaceutical remedies. My best friend now suffers with lichen planus and has been prescribed all kinds of steroids and ointments that don't work and are too painful to apply anyway. So she turned to me, her 'witch doctor' friend and is now on the mend.
The immediate remedy for lichen planus in the mouth is sage, either chewing the fresh leaves or if this is too painful, brewing tea from it. (Fresh) Bayleaf may be added to soothe the throat. Rosemary is less potent than sage but also works and has the added advantage of being a breath freshener. Lichen planus on the skin is best treated, depending on the severity of the skin lesions, with 99% aloe vera gel (skin mildly afflicted) or honey poultices (put cold-pressed organic honey on a gauze and attach to the skin with hypo-allergenic plaster). Honey naturally is antifungal and antibacterial. These are symptomatic treatments, however.
Systemic treatment means banning all fungi (mushrooms, cheese, beer and wine - good quality brandy will be 'manageable' - bread, peanuts, unwashed vegetables etc. ) as well as processed sugar (i. e. Refined, including all sugar derivatives) though honey and fructose may be tolerated. Plus complementing one's diet with beneficial bacteria to restore balance to the gut flora, e.g. Acidophilus (present in bio yoghurt) and bifidus. Once the immune system is functioning adequately again, foodstuffs such as bread may slowly be added to the diet again so that the body's response may be monitored.
Please someone try this and let me know whether this is beneficial to you, too?
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia