Article Updates From Art
As an update to this article, I am adding a list of more diseases that have elevated IL-17 levels, suggesting that Thiamine/Vitamin B1, a potent IL-17 inhibitor, may also be a consideration as adjunctive treatment for most, if not all of these diseases. I will include the original list at the bottom from my article of this new list of diseases:
2. Ankylosing Spondylitis
3. Osteo Arthritis
5. Psoriatic Arthritis
6. Lyme Disease
7. Graves Disease
9. Multiple Myeloma
10. Degenerative Disc Disease
11. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
14. Celiac Disease
15. Depression / Anxiety
Here is the list from the original article of diseases showing elevated IL-17 levels :
- Multiple Sclerosis (MS)
- Systemic Lupus Erythematosus (SLE)
- Parkinson's Disease (PD)
- Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA)
- Crohn's Disease (CD)
- Irritable Bowel Disease (IBD)
- Hyper IgE Syndrome
- Systemic Sclerosis
- Behcet's Disease (BD)
- Diabetes Type 1 & 2 (Possibly involved)
- Alzheimer's Disease (AD)
- Wernicke's Encephalopathy (WE)
Here is a link to the original article that explains how Thiamine is a potent IL-17 inhibitor :
As always, always consult your doctor or medical care health professional to make sure that thiamine at the dose you want to use is safe for you and safe with anything else you may be taking.
Thank you for this valuable information.
I have a problem with IL8. I need to have IL17 tested as well. We tested it last year and no problem so thinking now to do it again.
Have you read if low B1 (IL17 level) affects eyesight?
IL-17 is elevated in Age Related Macular Degeneration (ARMD) and people with dry eyes, and B vitamins may be helpful, but Folate may be more useful than B1 for ARMD, but the combination B1 plus B-12 may be more useful for dry eyes.
IL-17 can likely act as both cause and effect depending on the situation. As an example, IL-17 is likely an effect of psoriasis, but that production of IL-17 related to psoriasis is likely one of the factors that causes damage that lead to heart problems in people with psoriasis.
A more specific remedy for dry eyes and eye fatigue is the regular use of Maqui Berry Extract as the following two studies suggest :
This second study is a 2019 Randomized, placebo Controlled double blind trial that confirms that Maqui Berry Extract in the form of "MaquiBright" is very effective for dry eyes and eye fatigue which is another common issue in PwP :
Here are some links to several products at the best dose (60 mg/day) found in the studies :
Based on the study and reviews, it sounds like it takes about 30 days to start seeing benefit and that benefit increases by the 60th day. Make sure it is the "extract version".
Art, Thank you Thank you!
If I could pick your brain once more about IL's it would be this; What would high IL8 indicate as far as what part of the body does this inflammation marker usually affect? Is there like a bullseye or general area more frequent than others?
IL-8 is another inflammatory mediator and is sometimes referred to as a cytokine. IL-8 on its own is not hugely inflammatory, but it calls other inflammatory mediators into action to form a potent inflammatory response. That is normal activity, but problems arise when this inflammatory response becomes chronic and turns into an anti health self feeding cycle.
IL-8 is lower in the inflammatory cascade than IL-17 and reducing IL-17 can potentially reduce IL-8 and the inflammatory mediators which IL-8 has called into action.
IL-8 can be present in the blood, cerebrospinal fluid, synovial fluid and tissues depending on the disease. In some diseases, it is elevated in the blood. In other diseases, it can be elevated in the cerebrospinal fluid, synovial fluid or tissues.
In psoriasis, it is elevated in the tissues of skin lesions. In RA it is elevated in the synovial fluid. In Parkinson's disease it is lower in the serum, but higher in the cerebrospinal fluid. In liver disease, it is elevated in the serum. ALS patients have elevated IL-8 in the brain tissues making it more difficult to try and lower IL-8 levels as any treatment will have to have the ability to cross the blood-brain barrier (BBB), as well as be able to reduce IL-8 without causing further neuroinflammation. There are not a lot of natural supplements that have this dual capability, but there are at least 10. As you can see, IL-8 can be disease-specific in regards to where it is activated in the body.
So to answer your question, IL-8 can become activated in many areas of the body depending on the disease in question. It is not limited to a specific area or areas of the body.
Ah, thank you for the detailed explanation, Art. I will be having an IL17 conversation with my ND for sure.
I take several things for IL8 and knocked it down to 23. But lately, it has crept back up to over 100+ and we don't know why just yet.
My scans show mild inflammation at the resection site. Was told it can take a long time to heal.
Sometimes supplements that initially work for a specific purpose in the body, may not be as effective over time so in your case, IL-8 knockdown is your objective and sometimes rotating IL-8 inhibitors can help prevent the body from adapting to just one or two or three IL-8 inhibiting supplements. Here is a partial list of some common supplements that are known to inhibit IL-8 and cross the blood brain barrier while having very good safety profiles;
2. Magnesium >taurate>l-threonate>glycinate>aspartate
3. Vitamin D
4. Pine Bark Extract
5. Grape Seed Extract
10. Curcumin w/Bioperine as both are effective IL-8 inhibitors and both cross the BBB. Bioperine also increases absorption of curcumin.
Wow! Thank you very much for your insight. Sincerely.
Hi Elsa G,
The most effective thing I have seen for arthritis is Borax and I have seen it work very well for my psoriatic arthritis for over 13 years now as well as thousands of reports across the web for many other forms including RA and OA. It can take up to 3 to 4 months to see maximum benefit in long standing arthritis, but people have reported seeing some improvement within the first two weeks of starting borax. The protocol was founded by Dr. Rex Newnham in the 70's and further promoted by Ted from Bangkok, right here on Earth Clinic!
Ted's protocol calls for a man to take one quart of water with 1/4th of a teaspoon of borax in it per day for four days of the week. I drink one of these bottles throughout the day on Monday until finished and repeat the process on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday each day This gives a man a total of 1 level US measuring teaspoon of borax per week. I then take Friday, Saturday and Sunday off to allow any excess borax to be eliminated.
Women take exactly half of the dose for men. So women use 1/8th teaspoon of borax in a quart of water to be consumed throughout the day and follow the same pattern of one quart of borax water each day for four days of the week followed by 3 days of no borax water.
This is the regimen that Ted recommended on EC.
Some people are not able to tolerate borax and have bad reactions to it such as stomach upset or hives. So you have to pay attention when first starting out and if you have bad reactions to borax, you may not be able to take it. In case you are not able to tolerate borax, you can still try using a boron type of supplement. If that is not effective or you don't tolerate boron, there are still many other arthritis remedies ( over 95 remedies) to consider here on Earth clinic here:
Keep in mind that borax does not start relieving pain right away and if your pain is bad, you may need a topical pain reliever at least temporarily until the borax starts to work. If that is the case, I have written about some good topical pain relievers which you might find useful here:
Good luck and please update us on how you are doing!
I read about IL 17 on this site and asked my doctor for this test due to having psoriasis and constant inflammation.
I just had an IL 17 blood test done and all Il's good except IL-13 was high. The range at Quest labs was 11.0 lab said <=2.3 Good range.
Any help on this one would be appreciated.
You said :
>>> ' The range at Quest labs was 11.0 lab said <=2.3 Good range. '<<<
First, 11.0 is not a range, it is a specific number. If that is your IL-17 level, it is surprisingly low for someone with psoriasis . I am assuming these levels are in pg/ml as would normally be for IL-17 serum levels.
This study shows what levels of healthy controls and patients with psoriasis look like compared to each other:
Serum IL-17 was found, ± 41.1 pg/ml).
As you can see, in this study, the lowest healthy control reading was 11.9 pg/ml compared to your reading of 11.0. The patients with psoriasis and no rheumatic complaints had readings from as high as 91.5 to as low as 9.3, again compared to your 11.0. So you can see why I say surprising. In other studies, the severity of the PASI score is often positively correlated with the IL-17 level.
Take a look at the ESR and CRP levels in the controls compared to the group with psoriasis to get an even better idea of the role that inflammation plays in psoriasis.
If you don't mind me asking, what would you say your psoriasis level is as of your test date on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being worst? If you mind, that is not a problem and I understand.
Psoriasis on elbows, little on knees and all of a sudden outbreak on scalp and ears.
I was put on 5 mg. of prednisone 6 months ago because of difficulty breathing and that was all that seemed to tame inflammation in breathing down. I have had peroxide infusions, vitamins extra magnesium and glutathione infusions . Doctor felt I was having lots of inflammation also thought I could have been exposed to mold. Other doctor just wants to say I developed copd
No covid. Thank God.
Wondering if I wasn't on prednisone if tests could be higher.
Here are test results.I am also 72 years young.
interferon Gamma serum. <4.2 reference range <=4.2pg/mL
interleukin 4 serum <2.2, <=2.2 pg/mL reference range
interleukin 5, <2.2, reference range <=2.2pg/mL
Interleukin 10, serum <2.8, reference range <=2.8pg/ml
interleukin 13, serum, 11.0 high range, reference range <=2.3 pg/mL.
Interleukin 17, < 1.4 serum <=2.0reference range <=1.4pg/mL
interleukin 1 beta, serum <6.5 reference range <=6.7pg/mL
interleukin 6 serum < 2.0 reference range <=2.0/mL
Yes, prednisone will definitely, potently inhibit inflammatory cytokines and mediators. Unfortunately, long-term use can create other health issues. Even topical steroids can cause other health issues over the mid to long term.
For the scalp and ears, I have had some luck using a hair oil called DooGro. I have found this product at Walmart.
No, it doesn't make your hair grow, but in some instances, I have seen it help scalp and ear psoriasis with daily washing and reapplication to the affected areas. The downside is it does leave your hair oily while using it and it works fairly slowly. I have only seen this help the scalp and ears, not other areas with psoriasis.
The elbows are tough and may take a potent topical steroid to clear them such as Clobetasol or Halobetasol. In milder cases Betamethasone may work, but your dermatologist would have to advise and prescribe those for you. Generally speaking, ointments seem to be slightly more effective than creams. One supplement that I would normally recommend for mild to moderate psoriasis, I cannot recommend because the prednisone you are taking can cause elevated liver enzymes and the supplement I am thinking of has EGCG as one of its main components and in some people with a compromised liver, the EGCG may further compromise the liver. So it is not a consideration.
A different non-steroid topical prescription cream is Dovonex. (Calcipotriene) which is the active form of vitamin d and has a fairly good safety profile that is better than the topical steroids and might be a better place to start for your elbows and mild knees. Your dermatologist can give you the rundown on these 4 topical products.
Art can you please help me?
I was diagnosed with DM 2 in 2012 and then I was diagnosed with Diabetic Retinopathy about 8 years ago .. I went to get the shots in my eyes for a few years but I could not tolerate them any more. I have been researching diligently since then trying to find something that was natural that would work. I have purchased a lot of products but so far no good results. My brother's diabetes is worse than mine and he has lost a portion of one of his feet so I am trying to find him help also. He has the DR also but his is worse than mine. Art, if you can help me please do. Thank you kindly.
A lot of what has shown benefit for DR has only been done in animal studies and the human studies are lacking. I think it is a practical effort to try and reverse as much of the pathology of type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM) as possible in order to stop the damage that it is causing to other areas of the body such as the eyes, heart and nerves.
Toward that end, Berberine has proven in human studies to assist in that effort and I have written about it and dosing here :
On the other hand, Berberine in animal studies has shown potential benefit for DR in animal diabetes models as discussed here :
Here is a relevant quote from the animal study :
' BBR can effectively protect against the damage of RGC in rodent diabetic retinas. The protective effect might be related to the activation of GABAARs/PKC-α pathways. '
Moving toward trying to reverse the damaging effects of T2DM, Magnesium, aside from its other known health effects, has also shown the ability to lower blood glucose and HbA1C and I recently wrote an article for EC on that topic here :
This is important as high blood sugar is an early activity that leads to damage in diabetes. So gaining good control of blood glucose is critical in any treatment plan. There are many ways to try and deal with T2DM and these would include GSPE, Chromium, Vanadium, Probiotics/Prebiotics, fermented foods, melatonin, diet modifications and vitamin D as some very popular ones that have shown benefit in studies. There are many others that have shown benefit, but the above are a good starting point. The following animal study shows that melatonin benefits T2DM animal models in terms of DR.
Here is a relevant study quote :
' In accordance with our results, a significant reduction of retinal vascular damage, cytokines, and other inflammatory mediators was recorded with melatonin administration . '
In terms of DR in particular, I would look specifically at Berberine, Melatonin, Magnesium, Grape Seed Proanthocyanidin Extract (GSPE) and vitamin D.
These are supplements that you can discuss with your doctor to make sure they are safe and compatible with your current medications and because of the potential severe risks associated with T2DM. Let me know if you have other questions.
I forgot to ask what supplements you have already tried and found to be ineffective? That list will make it easier for me to narrow down my list to the most likely candidates. If you could also include the dose you used for each one, that would also be helpful.
IL-17 is generally involved in the allergic response as is histamine.
Quercetin is noted as both an inhibitor of IL-17 and histamine as well as having general anti allergy effects.
NAC has the ability to act as a mucolytic to thin mucous secretions and help them flow out easier. NAC also acts as an inhibitor of histamine and a stabilizer of mast cells while showing potential to inhibit IL-17.
You will have to experiment with dosing of these two to find effective dosing for you. With NAC starting at 600 mg/day would be considered relatively safe. Suggested dosing online for quercetin is 400 to 500 mg one to 3 times per day for allergies.
Thank you Art! So helpful! I will try those supplements. How long should I take those supplements? Is there any specific brans best for those supplements? If you recommend that will be great!
I don't normally recommend brands. You can consider Swanson as they usually have reasonable prices for both NAC and Quercetin.
The first consideration will be establishing the effective dose for NAC and starting at 600 mg~ 1200 mg /day as already established in other health issues. It will come down to trial and error. Not knowing exactly what is causing the allergic response, it is hard to know the answer to how long will you need to take them, but first you have to establish that these two supplements are helping. You already know the dosing for Quercetin.
Lastly, you might also consider adding Xlear Nasal Spray as it has both Grapefruit Seed Extract and Xylitol in it and can kill pathogens and breakdown biofilms in the nasal passages. Here is a link:
Let us know how you make out with these options.
Thank you Art! I will try those. Have a blessed day!
You can add Hashimoto's Thyroiditis in your list of diseases associated with IL17.
See PMID: 24211715. And higher IL17 is also associated with PCOS. See https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-502127/v1/3ae16453-705c-43cb-a02a-79c5abe292d4.pdf?c=1631883652.
Do you recommend the BENFOTIAMINE form of B1?
Thank you, Art. You are the best.
I do not recommend Benfotiamine for the specific purpose of lowering IL-17 because I have not seen literature saying that it specifically lowers IL-17. It does have similar antiinflammatory effects as thiamine and it may lower IL-17, but I have not seen any data to confirm that.
Benfotiamine is a derivative of thiamine but they have one big difference between them, Benfotiamine is fat soluble while thiamine hydrochloride and thiamine mononitrate, the two commonest forms of thiamine are both water soluble and as such, can be eliminated from the body fairly quickly in the urine. Benfotiamine, being fat soluble can build up in fat tissue when taken at higher dosing for long term. Generally, Benfotiamine is considered to be useful for diabetes, but is best used under a doctor's supervision and monitoring since diabetes is a serious condition that can have very serious health consequences if not treated correctly.
I am not clear on what you are asking, as healthy people have IL-17 levels that are undetectable and would not necessarily need extra thiamine, whereas people who have the diseases and health issues listed as well as other diseases not listed, have elevated levels of the inflammatory IL-17 in which case you would want to possibly try to replicate the study dosing schedule to try and lower IL-17 significantly. If you are referring specifically to Benfotiamine, which I was not referring to, because of its ability to store in fat, then that is a different matter. If that is what you meant regarding Benfotiamine, are you speaking of using it as a preventative of diabetes? If you can be more specific, I can try and give a better answer. I was initially discussing thiamine as thiamine HCL and thiamine mononitrate for the purpose of lowering elevated levels of IL-17. Both of these forms are water soluble and pass through the system fairly quickly and have good safety profiles at the dosage used in the study.
Okay, now I understand what you meant. If you do not have a condition of low B1 or a health issue that has shown elevated levels of TH-17/IL-17, then just supplementing at the daily allowance level should be all that is needed because healthy people generally have undetectable levels of IL-17.
Many of these listed Amazon suppliers say they ship to Israel :
If you are going for the IL-17 lowering effect, I think they will both work equally well and both are water soluble. Thiamine HCI/HCL seems to be a little easier to find and available from multiple suppliers.
Specifically regarding RA, I think the number one remedy for RA on EC is borax. Have you given any consideration to that path or tried it previously?. Borax has worked very well to keep my severe PA in remission for well over a decade. So naturally I am a believer in borax for multiple forms of arthritis. Not everyone can tolerate it and it doesn't work for everyone, but when it works, it seems to work very well. Ted wrote a lot about this remedy when he was still here, but many in the EC community have reported success for arthritis in general with borax. If you have any other questions just post them and I will try and answer them.
Thiamine for Inflammation
Thank you for the interesting/informative article on thiamine for IL-17 (inflammation).
Will thiamine worsen candida overgrowth? Thiamine in the B vitamin family is yeast based? I'm also sensitive to yeast.
Thank you, Lauren
(Kansas City, KS)
I also would like to know thiamine's affect on candida. Thank you!
Candida causes thiamine deficiency which is bad for the the body and brain in particular as thiamine is needed to control neuroinflammation and eventual mitochondria and neuronal damage in the brain. This could potentially increase a person's chances of getting neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease or Wernicke's Encephalopathy. The body definitely has need for thiamine as it produces it naturally in a healthy gut microbiome, but not so much when gut dysbiosis is in play as seen in cases of Candida Albicans overgrowth.
Because Candida causes this thiamine deficiency, it is possible that candida uses thiamine as part of its survival mechanism.
Given the importance of thiamine in humans, it may be better to first knock down the Candida Albicans (CA) overgrowth back to normal body levels, possibly by using Bill Thompson's protocol for that specific purpose or other ideas suggested here on EC for that specific purpose. His protocol is available through EC. Once you have the CA back to normal levels, then you can add thiamine in to protect the brain and body and lower inflammatory levels back toward normal. It is highly unhealthful to live with CA overgrowth in the short and especially in the long term!
Keep in mind that one of the studies I linked to said this:
>>> ' Providing a thiamine supplement to elderly persons who still have normal cognition but who have deposition of either amyloid or tau may prevent subsequent cognitive loss and eventual dementia. ' <<<
That quote is a definite clue as to the great importance of thiamine in people.
(Rancho Cucamonga, California, 91701)
I am taking prednisone 5 mg daily for 20 years and didn't help too much and 20 mg of Arava for one year and don't help too much, but I start taking B complex for the last 3 months and I am feeling 80% better, should I stop prednisone at least 5 mg every other day? The doctor is thinking to put me on Humera, but I don't have the money for my copay of over 1,000,00
Or should I stop Arava?
When it comes to withdrawing from Prednisone, it should be done very gradually and precisely to try and avoid a serious rebound reaction and your doctor can prescribe the dosing and the dosing schedule to try to do this.
You don't say what your health issue is, but is it rheumatoid arthritis (RA)? If so, have you tested Borax? With your doctor's supervision, you could try borax and if it works then it might be safer and easier to withdraw from Prednisone and possibly Arava too. You say that Arava nor Prednisone are helping very much and this may be useful if you test Borax, because if your symptoms improve while your doctor helps you test Borax, then that will be a clue that Borax may be working for you and then your doctor can consider trying to wean you off of Prednisone and possibly Arava too. If your doctor is hesitant to let you test Borax, show him the studies I linked to below because in that study, Borax was used in conjunction with arthritis medication to good effect. In the other study, Boron is suggested to possibly be useful for arthritis.
Arava is easier to withdraw from than Prednisone. Borax is inexpensive at just pennies per year to use, but not everyone tolerates Borax or gets benefit, but the majority seem to benefit. Borax has kept my severe psoriatic arthritis in remission for about 14 years and is reported to work for multiple forms of arthritis of which there are many.
Borax has a very good safety profile that is similar to the safety profile of table salt. Be sure and mention that fact to your doctor.
Here is a study that shows that it is useful for arthritis :
In addition, Earth Clinic has a dedicated page for Borax that gives dosing info as well as other uses than arthritis here :
One last thing to mention, Boron is considered to be the main active component in Borax that is helpful for arthritis, and according to the doctor who discovered the use of Borax for different forms of arthritis, Dr. Rex Newnham, Boron can also be effective as he saw in his patients. Some people who are not able to tolerate Borax, are sometimes able to tolerate Boron. In terms of studies regarding Boron, studies show that areas of the world with the lowest levels of Boron in the soil, have a higher incidence of arthritis and areas of the world that have the highest levels of Boron in the soil, have lower incidence of arthritis.
5 ml of prednisolone is a very small dose, especially when you've been on it for years. After a while, that small dose does nothing or very little and needs to be increased to make a difference anyway. But if you stop your body misses it. Hence it must be gradual. That won't take long and would be very easy if it is only a 5 ml dose. Forget about paying a doctor to monitor it, he can only work this out and supervise you, guessing, you can do that just as well yourself. A .lot of people on fibromyalgia have to do this on a regular basis with their steroid doses, they cannot rush to the doctor or speak to him every time they feel they should increase or decrease the dose. For one thing, they would not be able to get an appointment to speak to him quick enough, for another it would work out very expensive, for another, he is only guessing. I know, I've been in this situation for many years. Most doctors are so clueless about this it amounts to negligence or putting you in danger of never feeling any better. If something is not working why take it for years anyway? Give it enough time to find out if it is working and then stop if it is not helping. 5 mg is probably far too small a dose anyway!