IL-17, Inflammatory Diseases and the One Vitamin That May Help

on Oct 25, 2021

Thiamine for Inflammation
Posted by Lauren (Toronto, Ontario) on 10/26/2021
5 out of 5 stars

Hi Art,

Thank you for the interesting/informative article on thiamine for IL-17 (inflammation).

Will thiamine worsen candida overgrowth? Thiamine in the B vitamin family is yeast based? I'm also sensitive to yeast.

Thank you, Lauren

Thiamine for Inflammation
Posted by Art (California) on 10/26/2021 1294 posts

Hi Lauren,

Candida causes thiamine deficiency which is bad for the the body and brain in particular as thiamine is needed to control neuroinflammation and eventual mitochondria and neuronal damage in the brain. This could potentially increase a person's chances of getting neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease or Wernicke's Encephalopathy. The body definitely has need for thiamine as it produces it naturally in a healthy gut microbiome, but not so much when gut dysbiosis is in play as seen in cases of Candida Albicans overgrowth.

Because Candida causes this thiamine deficiency, it is possible that candida uses thiamine as part of its survival mechanism.

Given the importance of thiamine in humans, it may be better to first knock down the Candida Albicans (CA) overgrowth back to normal body levels, possibly by using Bill Thompson's protocol for that specific purpose or other ideas suggested here on EC for that specific purpose. His protocol is available through EC. Once you have the CA back to normal levels, then you can add thiamine in to protect the brain and body and lower inflammatory levels back toward normal. It is highly unhealthful to live with CA overgrowth in the short and especially in the long term!

Keep in mind that one of the studies I linked to said this:

>>> ' Providing a thiamine supplement to elderly persons who still have normal cognition but who have deposition of either amyloid or tau may prevent subsequent cognitive loss and eventual dementia. ' <<<

............................................................

That quote is a definite clue as to the great importance of thiamine in people.

Art


Article Updates From Art
Posted by Art (California) on 11/13/2021 1294 posts
5 out of 5 stars

As an update to this article, I am adding a list of more diseases that have elevated IL-17 levels, suggesting that Thiamine/Vitamin B1, a potent IL-17 inhibitor, may also be a consideration as adjunctive treatment for most, if not all of these diseases. I will include the original list at the bottom from my article of this new list of diseases:

1. Schizophrenia

2. Ankylosing Spondylitis

3. Osteo Arthritis

4. COPD

5. Psoriatic Arthritis

6. Lyme Disease

7. Graves Disease

9. Multiple Myeloma

10. Degenerative Disc Disease

11. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

12. Fibromyalgia

13. Osteoporosis

14. Celiac Disease

15. Depression / Anxiety

Here is the list from the original article of diseases showing elevated IL-17 levels :

  • Multiple Sclerosis (MS)
  • Systemic Lupus Erythematosus (SLE)
  • Parkinson's Disease (PD)
  • Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA)
  • Psoriasis
  • Crohn's Disease (CD)
  • Irritable Bowel Disease (IBD)
  • Hyper IgE Syndrome
  • Systemic Sclerosis
  • Behcet's Disease (BD)
  • Diabetes Type 1 & 2 (Possibly involved)
  • Covid-19
  • Alzheimer's Disease (AD)
  • Wernicke's Encephalopathy (WE)

Here is a link to the original article that explains how Thiamine is a potent IL-17 inhibitor :

https://www.earthclinic.com/cures/il-17.html

As always, always consult your doctor or medical care health professional to make sure that thiamine at the dose you want to use is safe for you and safe with anything else you may be taking.

Art

Article Updates From Art
Posted by Art (California) on 11/14/2021 1294 posts

IL-17 is elevated in Age Related Macular Degeneration (ARMD) and people with dry eyes, and B vitamins may be helpful, but Folate may be more useful than B1 for ARMD, but the combination B1 plus B-12 may be more useful for dry eyes.

Art


Article Updates From Art
Posted by Art (California) on 11/14/2021 1294 posts

IL-17 can likely act as both cause and effect depending on the situation. As an example, IL-17 is likely an effect of psoriasis, but that production of IL-17 related to psoriasis is likely one of the factors that causes damage that lead to heart problems in people with psoriasis.

A more specific remedy for dry eyes and eye fatigue is the regular use of Maqui Berry Extract as the following two studies suggest :

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25208615/

This second study is a 2019 Randomized, placebo Controlled double blind trial that confirms that Maqui Berry Extract in the form of "MaquiBright" is very effective for dry eyes and eye fatigue which is another common issue in PwP :

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6544612/

Here are some links to several products at the best dose (60 mg/day) found in the studies :

https://www.vitacost.com/life-extension-tear-support-with-maquibright-60-mg-30-vegetarian-capsules-1

https://www.amazon.com/Tear-Support-MaquiBright-Vegetarian-Capsules-Pack-3/dp/B01DJKIBPS/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=maquibright&qid=1602994608&sr=8-5

Based on the study and reviews, it sounds like it takes about 30 days to start seeing benefit and that benefit increases by the 60th day. Make sure it is the "extract version".

Art


Article Updates From Art
Posted by Art (California) on 11/17/2021 1294 posts

Betty,

Sometimes supplements that initially work for a specific purpose in the body, may not be as effective over time so in your case, IL-8 knockdown is your objective and sometimes rotating IL-8 inhibitors can help prevent the body from adapting to just one or two or three IL-8 inhibiting supplements. Here is a partial list of some common supplements that are known to inhibit IL-8 and cross the blood brain barrier while having very good safety profiles;

1. Melatonin

2. Magnesium >taurate>l-threonate>glycinate>aspartate

3. Vitamin D

4. Pine Bark Extract

5. Grape Seed Extract

6. Taurine

7. Thiamine

8. Probiotics

9. Selenium

10. Curcumin w/Bioperine as both are effective IL-8 inhibitors and both cross the BBB. Bioperine also increases absorption of curcumin.

Art


Benfotiamine B1
Posted by Art (California) on 10/27/2021 1294 posts

Hi Peter,

I am not clear on what you are asking, as healthy people have IL-17 levels that are undetectable and would not necessarily need extra thiamine, whereas people who have the diseases and health issues listed as well as other diseases not listed, have elevated levels of the inflammatory IL-17 in which case you would want to possibly try to replicate the study dosing schedule to try and lower IL-17 significantly. If you are referring specifically to Benfotiamine, which I was not referring to, because of its ability to store in fat, then that is a different matter. If that is what you meant regarding Benfotiamine, are you speaking of using it as a preventative of diabetes? If you can be more specific, I can try and give a better answer. I was initially discussing thiamine as thiamine HCL and thiamine mononitrate for the purpose of lowering elevated levels of IL-17. Both of these forms are water soluble and pass through the system fairly quickly and have good safety profiles at the dosage used in the study.

Art


Article Updates From Art
Posted by Art (California) on 02/20/2022 1294 posts

Dgfarley,

Yes, prednisone will definitely, potently inhibit inflammatory cytokines and mediators. Unfortunately, long-term use can create other health issues. Even topical steroids can cause other health issues over the mid to long term.

For the scalp and ears, I have had some luck using a hair oil called DooGro. I have found this product at Walmart.

https://www.doogro.com/doo-gro-stimulating-growth-oil/

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Doo-Gro-Stimulating-Oil-4-5-fl-oz/10324599?athcpid=10324599&athpgid

No, it doesn't make your hair grow, but in some instances, I have seen it help scalp and ear psoriasis with daily washing and reapplication to the affected areas. The downside is it does leave your hair oily while using it and it works fairly slowly. I have only seen this help the scalp and ears, not other areas with psoriasis.

The elbows are tough and may take a potent topical steroid to clear them such as Clobetasol or Halobetasol. In milder cases Betamethasone may work, but your dermatologist would have to advise and prescribe those for you. Generally speaking, ointments seem to be slightly more effective than creams. One supplement that I would normally recommend for mild to moderate psoriasis, I cannot recommend because the prednisone you are taking can cause elevated liver enzymes and the supplement I am thinking of has EGCG as one of its main components and in some people with a compromised liver, the EGCG may further compromise the liver. So it is not a consideration.

A different non-steroid topical prescription cream is Dovonex. (Calcipotriene) which is the active form of vitamin d and has a fairly good safety profile that is better than the topical steroids and might be a better place to start for your elbows and mild knees. Your dermatologist can give you the rundown on these 4 topical products.

Art


Thiamine for Inflammation
Posted by Jolie (Kansas City, KS) on 10/26/2021
5 out of 5 stars

I also would like to know thiamine's affect on candida. Thank you!


Thiamine for Inflammation
Posted by Art (California) on 02/23/2022 1294 posts

Elsa,

When it comes to withdrawing from Prednisone, it should be done very gradually and precisely to try and avoid a serious rebound reaction and your doctor can prescribe the dosing and the dosing schedule to try to do this.

You don't say what your health issue is, but is it rheumatoid arthritis (RA)? If so, have you tested Borax? With your doctor's supervision, you could try borax and if it works then it might be safer and easier to withdraw from Prednisone and possibly Arava too. You say that Arava nor Prednisone are helping very much and this may be useful if you test Borax, because if your symptoms improve while your doctor helps you test Borax, then that will be a clue that Borax may be working for you and then your doctor can consider trying to wean you off of Prednisone and possibly Arava too. If your doctor is hesitant to let you test Borax, show him the studies I linked to below because in that study, Borax was used in conjunction with arthritis medication to good effect. In the other study, Boron is suggested to possibly be useful for arthritis.

Arava is easier to withdraw from than Prednisone. Borax is inexpensive at just pennies per year to use, but not everyone tolerates Borax or gets benefit, but the majority seem to benefit. Borax has kept my severe psoriatic arthritis in remission for about 14 years and is reported to work for multiple forms of arthritis of which there are many.

Borax has a very good safety profile that is similar to the safety profile of table salt. Be sure and mention that fact to your doctor.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10050929/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26511087/

Here is a study that shows that it is useful for arthritis :

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC5289089/

In addition, Earth Clinic has a dedicated page for Borax that gives dosing info as well as other uses than arthritis here :

https://www.earthclinic.com/remedies/borax.html

One last thing to mention, Boron is considered to be the main active component in Borax that is helpful for arthritis, and according to the doctor who discovered the use of Borax for different forms of arthritis, Dr. Rex Newnham, Boron can also be effective as he saw in his patients. Some people who are not able to tolerate Borax, are sometimes able to tolerate Boron. In terms of studies regarding Boron, studies show that areas of the world with the lowest levels of Boron in the soil, have a higher incidence of arthritis and areas of the world that have the highest levels of Boron in the soil, have lower incidence of arthritis.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC1566627/

Art


Article Updates From Art
Posted by Art (California) on 11/16/2021 1294 posts

Hi Betty,

IL-8 is another inflammatory mediator and is sometimes referred to as a cytokine. IL-8 on its own is not hugely inflammatory, but it calls other inflammatory mediators into action to form a potent inflammatory response. That is normal activity, but problems arise when this inflammatory response becomes chronic and turns into an anti health self feeding cycle.

IL-8 is lower in the inflammatory cascade than IL-17 and reducing IL-17 can potentially reduce IL-8 and the inflammatory mediators which IL-8 has called into action.

IL-8 can be present in the blood, cerebrospinal fluid, synovial fluid and tissues depending on the disease. In some diseases, it is elevated in the blood. In other diseases, it can be elevated in the cerebrospinal fluid, synovial fluid or tissues.

In psoriasis, it is elevated in the tissues of skin lesions. In RA it is elevated in the synovial fluid. In Parkinson's disease it is lower in the serum, but higher in the cerebrospinal fluid. In liver disease, it is elevated in the serum. ALS patients have elevated IL-8 in the brain tissues making it more difficult to try and lower IL-8 levels as any treatment will have to have the ability to cross the blood-brain barrier (BBB), as well as be able to reduce IL-8 without causing further neuroinflammation. There are not a lot of natural supplements that have this dual capability, but there are at least 10. As you can see, IL-8 can be disease-specific in regards to where it is activated in the body.

So to answer your question, IL-8 can become activated in many areas of the body depending on the disease in question. It is not limited to a specific area or areas of the body.

Art


Article Updates From Art
Posted by Art (California) on 02/14/2022 1294 posts

Gail,

You said :

>>> ' The range at Quest labs was 11.0 lab said <=2.3 Good range. '<<<

First, 11.0 is not a range, it is a specific number. If that is your IL-17 level, it is surprisingly low for someone with psoriasis . I am assuming these levels are in pg/ml as would normally be for IL-17 serum levels.

This study shows what levels of healthy controls and patients with psoriasis look like compared to each other:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1110116419300572

Serum IL-17 was found, ± 41.1 pg/ml).

As you can see, in this study, the lowest healthy control reading was 11.9 pg/ml compared to your reading of 11.0. The patients with psoriasis and no rheumatic complaints had readings from as high as 91.5 to as low as 9.3, again compared to your 11.0. So you can see why I say surprising. In other studies, the severity of the PASI score is often positively correlated with the IL-17 level.

Take a look at the ESR and CRP levels in the controls compared to the group with psoriasis to get an even better idea of the role that inflammation plays in psoriasis.

If you don't mind me asking, what would you say your psoriasis level is as of your test date on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being worst? If you mind, that is not a problem and I understand.

Art


Benfotiamine B1
Posted by Art (California) on 10/29/2021 1294 posts

Peter,

Okay, now I understand what you meant. If you do not have a condition of low B1 or a health issue that has shown elevated levels of TH-17/IL-17, then just supplementing at the daily allowance level should be all that is needed because healthy people generally have undetectable levels of IL-17.

Art


Benfotiamine B1
Posted by Peter (from chicago) on 10/30/2021

Thanks, Art.


Article Updates From Art
Posted by Betty (CA) on 11/13/2021

Thank you for this valuable information.

I have a problem with IL8. I need to have IL17 tested as well. We tested it last year and no problem so thinking now to do it again.

Have you read if low B1 (IL17 level) affects eyesight?


Article Updates From Art
Posted by Betty (CA) on 11/15/2021

Art, Thank you Thank you!

If I could pick your brain once more about IL's it would be this; What would high IL8 indicate as far as what part of the body does this inflammation marker usually affect? Is there like a bullseye or general area more frequent than others?


Article Updates From Art
Posted by Betty (CA) on 11/17/2021

Ah, thank you for the detailed explanation, Art. I will be having an IL17 conversation with my ND for sure.

I take several things for IL8 and knocked it down to 23. But lately, it has crept back up to over 100+ and we don't know why just yet.

My scans show mild inflammation at the resection site. Was told it can take a long time to heal.


Article Updates From Art
Posted by Betty (CA) on 11/18/2021

Wow! Thank you very much for your insight. Sincerely.


Thiamine for Inflammation
Posted by Carmel (Essex England) on 05/26/2022

5 ml of prednisolone is a very small dose, especially when you've been on it for years. After a while, that small dose does nothing or very little and needs to be increased to make a difference anyway. But if you stop your body misses it. Hence it must be gradual. That won't take long and would be very easy if it is only a 5 ml dose. Forget about paying a doctor to monitor it, he can only work this out and supervise you, guessing, you can do that just as well yourself. A .lot of people on fibromyalgia have to do this on a regular basis with their steroid doses, they cannot rush to the doctor or speak to him every time they feel they should increase or decrease the dose. For one thing, they would not be able to get an appointment to speak to him quick enough, for another it would work out very expensive, for another, he is only guessing. I know, I've been in this situation for many years. Most doctors are so clueless about this it amounts to negligence or putting you in danger of never feeling any better. If something is not working why take it for years anyway? Give it enough time to find out if it is working and then stop if it is not helping. 5 mg is probably far too small a dose anyway!


Benfotiamine B1
Posted by Uncertain (LA.) on 10/26/2021

Do you recommend the BENFOTIAMINE form of B1?

Thank you, Art. You are the best.

Benfotiamine B1
Posted by Art (California) on 11/08/2021 1294 posts

Hi Dorit,

Many of these listed Amazon suppliers say they ship to Israel :

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=thiamine+hydrochloride+hcl+sublingual&ref=nb_sb_noss

Art


Article Updates From Art
Posted by Betty (CA) on 11/14/2021

Thank you! I do take B-12 and B-2 and eat natural folate daily.

I have terrible dry eye. Maybe start with 100mg B-1 would be a good start and talk it over with my ND.

So, is IL-17 a cause for other IL increases (a domino effect?)? A little confused about that.


Article Updates From Art
Posted by Elsa G. (California ) on 11/20/2021

Hi Art,

Please can you tell me how to get better with Rheumatoid Arthritis, I am in a lot of inflammation and pain and very physical damage.

Thank you.

Elsa


Article Updates From Art
Posted by Gail (Florida) on 02/14/2022

Hi Art,

I read about IL 17 on this site and asked my doctor for this test due to having psoriasis and constant inflammation.
I just had an IL 17 blood test done and all Il's good except IL-13 was high. The range at Quest labs was 11.0 lab said <=2.3 Good range.

Any help on this one would be appreciated.


Article Updates From Art
Posted by Dgfarley (Florida ) on 02/19/2022

Hi Art.

Psoriasis on elbows, little on knees and all of a sudden outbreak on scalp and ears.

I was put on 5 mg. of prednisone 6 months ago because of difficulty breathing and that was all that seemed to tame inflammation in breathing down. I have had peroxide infusions, vitamins extra magnesium and glutathione infusions . Doctor felt I was having lots of inflammation also thought I could have been exposed to mold. Other doctor just wants to say I developed copd
No covid. Thank God.

Wondering if I wasn't on prednisone if tests could be higher.

Here are test results.I am also 72 years young.

interferon Gamma serum. <4.2 reference range <=4.2pg/mL

interleukin 4 serum <2.2, <=2.2 pg/mL reference range

interleukin 5, <2.2, reference range <=2.2pg/mL

Interleukin 10, serum <2.8, reference range <=2.8pg/ml

interleukin 13, serum, 11.0 high range, reference range <=2.3 pg/mL.

Interleukin 17, < 1.4 serum <=2.0reference range <=1.4pg/mL

interleukin 1 beta, serum <6.5 reference range <=6.7pg/mL

interleukin 6 serum < 2.0 reference range <=2.0/mL


Thiamine for Inflammation
Posted by Elsa (Rancho Cucamonga, California, 91701) on 02/23/2022
5 out of 5 stars

Hello Art,

I am taking prednisone 5 mg daily for 20 years and didn't help too much and 20 mg of Arava for one year and don't help too much, but I start taking B complex for the last 3 months and I am feeling 80% better, should I stop prednisone at least 5 mg every other day? The doctor is thinking to put me on Humera, but I don't have the money for my copay of over 1,000,00
Or should I stop Arava?

Please help
Elsa


Benfotiamine B1
Posted by Peter from Chicago (Chicago) on 10/27/2021

Art,

Can I take the daily 200 mg as preventive medicine?


Benfotiamine B1
Posted by Dorit (Isarel) on 11/08/2021

Hi Art.

Thank you for the great info. Can't find any thiamine HCl only. 100mg. Can a multi b complex work? Thanks.


Benfotiamine B1
Posted by peter (chicago) on 10/27/2021

Art,

Sorry typo above.

I meant thiamine 200 mg (B 1) for preventive.