My positive effects from MSM top out at about 1500 mg.
Take it all before noon, or insomnia will be a feature. Taper downward, too. The biggest dose first thing. Lowest dose at noon.
Processing sulfur requires molybdenum. You will use up molybdenum consuming sulfur, whether from supp's, food, preservatives, or sulfur chemistry like antibacterials. If your sulfur intake overruns your molybdenum intake, bad things happen. With more sulfur than can be processed, you bacically become allergic to it, until you get more molybdenum and can process it. Insomnia and migraine-like headaches are the standout symptoms.
Sulfur processing happens in the liver in the middle of the night. This is the key time when molybdenum is used up converting consumed sulfurs into forms usable by the body. So, while MSM is best taken in the morning, molybdenum should be reversed. Start dosing mid-afternoon, with the big bang at about 9 pm. If headaches pop up in early morning, increase the last dose of Mo until they disappear. In me, it takes around 1500-2000 mcg to cover 1500 mg of MSM. I don't store much, either. If I reduce the dose, early morning headaches soon follow.
Vitamin C is said to improve absorption. I eat a lot of fruit in the morning. More than about 500 mg of C per day starts to engage loose stool and 2nd and 3rd bowel movements in late morning. So I don't really take C.
Bowel issues from MSM have to do with not absorbing it out of the gut so that the sulfur goes to feeding organisms that should be in small amounts but instead proliferate on the excess sulfur in the gut. The very foul smelling stool is the big clue. Start low dose and work up. Include molybdenum from the start. Without the molly, you don't process. If you don't process, the sulfur in the MSM is in excess. If the sulfur is in excess, you have to stop absorbing. If you stop absorbing, the organisms get overfed deep in the gut. You have gut problems.
MSM and molybdenum are a team. Taking one without the other is the problem.
My husband started taking MSM for his frozen shoulder. He believes it significantly helped. After taking it for about 2 weeks he came across an old interview with James Coburn, the actor. His RA was so debilitating, prescription drugs weren't helping. He discovered MSM and said that was the only thing that would help him get out of bed. (Me, I can't take it as it causes heart palps.)
Has anyone ever nebulized MSM?? For asthma or COPD. Thank you
Prevented Hip Replacement
I bought a 2 lb of MSM at tractor supply for horses. A lady friend told me I could personally use it and I'd appreciate any information you could give me. I appreciate your response and have a good day.
How to Take MSM
I was using black salve on a fumigating tumour on my head. For about 2 days, I had yellow oil leaving my pisser. Now I see how oil goes through you in dramatic times. Very glad to start to understand what was going on. Thanks for the post!
Where to Buy
In your MSM posting you mention MSM from Kala health which is USA sourced and Bulk supplements which is China sourced. I'm wondering if anyone has used the PurforMSM for animals rather than the OptiMSM for humans by Kala?
It is quite a bit cheaper and it seems to be the same ingredients and gone through the same testing. Any results or issues from doing so? Thanks
Prevented Hip Replacement
I was checking into https://kalahealth.com/ingredients/msm/. One is for humans and the other for animals. The animal one is cheaper and appears to be the same/similar. Do you know if it's ok to use the animal version? Thank you
Hi Mary (MA) -
I apologize in advance for the long post!
I always start on a low dose and then increase it very gradually to avoid any stomach issues. This may be why I didn't have any side effects.
For the MSM, I started at 1/8 teaspoon of the crystals (sometimes called powder depending on the brand) which, according to the container, is 625 mg. I took this twice a day (with or without food) – once in the morning, then again in the early afternoon.
I put the crystals on my tongue and immediately drink water to flush it down. You can barely taste it this way. Also, it's very important to stay hydrated when taking MSM.
Over weeks, I gradually increased the dose (1/4 teaspoon, then 3/4 teaspoon, etc.) until I was taking 1 teaspoon (5 grams) twice a day.
For some reason I stopped at the beginning of Covid-19 when I started taking quite a few other supplements. But I'm back taking it – returning to a low dose, gradually increasing it until I'm taking 1 teaspoon twice daily.
Vitamin C enhances MSM.
I take ascorbic acid in crystal form (sometimes called powder) throughout the day (about 1/8 teaspoon which is 600 mg depending on your brand). I put it directly on my tongue and wash it down. If you do this every hour or so, you get a regular low-dose intake of Vitamin C. I had no reactions doing this (and it prompts me to drink water every hour!).
I always use the crystal or powder form of Vitamin C and MSM so I don't have the unwanted additives they use in capsules/tablets.
I like Andrew Saul's information on Vitamin C and other vitamins (like Niacin). He's a down-to-earth type of guy.
What amount of MSM are you starting out with? And what type of vitamin c are you using? Just curious with all the side effects one can get at first with MSM. Thanks.
I do have MSM crystals but keep forgetting to take it.
However, after receiving an email regarding MSM and cardiovascular health, followed the next day by Earth Clinic's email about MSM's benefits, I have resolved to start taking it twice a day (with Vitamin C to enhance the effects).
I now leave the jar on my kitchen counter as a reminder – I'll see if that works.
The information about keeping our heart healthy was from a company that sells MSM but their information is free and they do provide references and sources at the end of the article if you want to do some more research.
Speaking of hearts, Happy Valentine's Day tomorrow!
How much MSM do you take daily? Thanks.
Where to Buy
I loved the post on MSM but question the Bulk Supplement brand that was recommended. It comes from China. It is my understanding China has little or no manufacturing standards.
I have been taking MSM intended for horses, for the past 12 years. Started after hip replacement. Second hip was also in a bad way. Recent X rays indicated cartilage growth sufficient to never have second hip done!! Needless to say I have no arthritis or any other pains. I am 79 years old and walk 3km 4 times/week.
Thanks for sharing what MSM has done for you. I'm 70 and years and years of bad posture has left me me lower back pain and now hip bursitis. Big ouch as my grandson would say. I have been taking a quarter of a teaspoon twice a day for about five days and am going to increase it gradually. Not sure if it's wishful thinking but I do feel I'm moving slightly better. Plus my shoulder, which has been painful, seems to have suddenly got better. So you have given me hope.
Hi, what brand and which MSM are you using please. Thank you
I forgot to ask if your husband used the borax hand lotion long enough to see any benefit?
Regarding borax, a few things. Borax has a low toxicity that is even lower than table salt or roughly similar. If you look for studies on kidney toxicity from borax, if you can find any, they will have used dosing that is way beyond Ted's recommendations and there will be health issues under such conditions just as there would be if you consumed similar high doses of salt. You will be more likely to find studies showing that borax may have positive effects on the kidneys. Borax moves through the system quickly and Ted's actual protocol prevented any potential for toxic borax buildup because he called for 4 days supplementing and 3 days off.
The 3 days off was long enough to allow borax to clear, yet still get the very long lasting benefit of borax against multiple forms of arthritis with the 4 days on borax. I look at borax as more of an actual treatment that can reverse arthritis for every extended periods of time or possibly indefinitely, but I consider MSM as a very good pain reliever and antiinflammatory for some, but not me.
My experience with borax even when I was doing 5 days on and only 2 days off, is that it put my arthritis into remission for over 12 years now and I had a kidney and liver test done about a year ago with no problem with my kidneys or liver. I was concerned about taking borax when I was first contemplating starting on it, so I did as much reading as possible on it and I think that is what finally convinced me to start taking it as the very first box of borax I bought sat on the shelf for at least three months before I finally started taking it!
Another point is that I do not even take borax 3 days a week now. I probably average two times per week at most now and have gone well over three months with no return of symptoms after years of use. My psoriatic arthritis was "severe" and affected the majority of joints in my body. I may even be cured, but I won't stop taking borax because of its many other health effects in humans.
Topically applied borax is very poorly absorbed through the skin and that is why when I made a hand lotion for my brother in law, I was not sure if enough would be absorbed through the skin and dermal layers to be effective. It was, but it was slower than had he taken it orally. I think Ted once said that lower dosing would work, but it would just take longer to work and I think my brother in law's case tends to confirm what Ted said. I do not mean this as a knock on MSM because MSM works very well for some people in relieving pain and reducing inflammation and you can not really compare apples to oranges.
In the case of your husband, where he believes that borax will or could damage his kidneys at the dosing that Ted came up with, it may be better to follow what he believes rather than always being bothered by the idea that he is damaging his kidneys by taking borax. How are you doing and does the problem (OLP) persist or have you been able to figure out a resolution?
My husband stopped using the borax hand cream when he read that that even topical use might be a problem for people with kidney disease. That may have been the case with your neighbor. He is now using MSM, also, and having some pain relief with it. Thank you for your always helpful, well researched posts that have benefitted so many here.
Side Effects and Warnings
Some years ago, a scientist announced that worldwide people are Vitamin D deficient, even those who are working in the sun. What he said was so controversial that he has been shut down. Cannot find his work anywhere and sadly didn't write down his name but am sure he was Scandinavian. I think he said that there is a change in our Sun.
I forgot to mention regarding my neighbor and MSM applied topically, she told me that it makes her skin softer and her hair fuller. She said she just spritzes her hair and skin with her spray bottle of MSM. Another friend that uses MSM from a spray bottle recently told me that her skin had started feeling rough and the MSM spray made it feel smooth again!
Many people swear by MSM as an effective pain reliever in oral and topical application, but like other supplements, alternatives and prescription medications, it works excellently in some and not at all in some and in some, there can be unpleasant side effects.
As an example of this I will describe what happened with my sister and my neighbor who were both using mag oil (MO) for diverse body pain issues. Both were getting approximately 80% pain relief using Magnesium Oil (MO). My neighbor noticed, after years of use, that MO pain relief was declining and she came over to ask what I thought about it.
Previously she was using borax for pain management and it worked extremely well for her, but her doctor asked her to stop taking it, but did not explain why to her. From that point forward, her pain level increased and her quality of life (QOL) decreased very noticeably. I noticed when I would see her outside that she was moving very poorly and was obviously in pain. She normally had very good posture, but when I saw her outside, she was bent over and could not stand straight up. From that point forward she was using MO to effectively relieve the majority of her pain for years, but more recently she told me that MO seemed to be losing effectiveness for her and was wondering what else she could use. I asked her about going back on borax and she said her doctor was insistent that she not go back on borax, but still gave her no reason. Oddly, her doctor was not offering her anything to help her pain even though he could clearly see that she had deteriorated.
From that point forward, she started using topical MSM and that alleviated about 90 % of her pain so she was thrilled! She wasn't good with taking it orally because she couldn't get past the bitterness of it at the dosage she wanted to take and that dose made the MSM capsules too impractical for her. I was watching her and how she was moving and clearly the topical MSM was doing wonders for her. She was standing straight again and moving like a healthy 65 year old(she is in her early 80's). Needless to say, she is now a very happy lady!
On the other hand, my sister who is currently using MO to relieve pain in her neck and upper back with very good effect, wanted to give topical MSM a try also. First she tried it orally and found it to be too bitter to tolerate so she applied it similarly to how she normally applies MO and she was horrified to find out that almost immediately after applying MSM topically, she got that unbearable bitter taste in her mouth again! To add insult to injury, she also lost her sense of smell and taste for 2 to 3 days! She is now back on MO.For me, MSM and DMSO offer me no pain relief at all or at least none that I am able to discern, but I recognize that its effects vary widely from person to person. Borax on the other hand works unbelievably well for me while I have seen many people who did not benefit from borax. It's a lot about trial and error to see what works best for you.So there you have it, sometimes supplements work incredibly well for one person while being a nightmare for someone else or just not effective for the purpose!
MSM has cured trigger thumb, frozen shoulder and joint pain (losing weight also helped with joints), and I have used it for two elderly dogs. It extended their quality of life substantially. One of those dogs came with us to Thailand - at 16 years old! Still likes and is able to run!
For nearly forty years I have had a problem with reactions to animal dander (horses, cats and some dogs).
After taking 1 tablespoon of msm 3 times a day they ceased!
I went through some detox reactions - headaches and mild flu like symptoms - lots of emotions surface, predominantly tears, but each episode passed quickly. It seemed with each emotional release my reactions to animal dander decreased so I embraced that by watching plenty of sad movies to speed up the process!
Msm has been life changing for me.
Dosage and Tips
I use horse msm from Amazon, Its sold by the train load. I buy 5 lbs at a time. You need a source that moves fast like quantities for horses and the other thing you need while taking it is exercise to move the msm through your muscles.
Don't take it in water tastes awful, put it in your mouth in powder form and add water and swish it around for as long as you can, 5 minutes or more, take at least 2 T per day.
Four hours between doses. Read the ebook by jim clark "It's the Liver Stupid"
MSM: Headaches and nightmares and excessive thirst as a side effect but wow, almost pain free. Had pain in knees, neck, hips, wrists, elbows, and shoulder, feet, back, fingers on right hand. I can function again without pain. Been only a week and a half since taking it.
Dosage and Tips
For those who get a rash from MSM:
Any time the skin breaks out in a rash, that is a sign that the liver is detoxing. Over time it will go away. Just keep the dose low until it subsides, then you can increase it.
Scabies for 2 years nothing worked. I used MSM half a teaspoon 3 times a day 3 days later 60 per cent scabies sores healed. Amazing product lifesaver. I was at the end of the rope after trying literally hundreds of different things.
Thank God for MSM.
I love MSM!! But the first few days that I tried it (1 gram) I had insomnia and a horrible headache. I kept researching and found that lots of people have to started really slow. I bought the capsules and split one capsule into 4 smaller ones. That was only 250 mg. a day. Did this for a week. Then up to 500 etc, and at this low dosage, I felt fine. I am 67 years old now, and I have been taking it for 4 years. I couldn't walk, severe back, hip pain. I had the injections but they did absolutely nothing for me. Decided I would have to help myself.
By the time I hit 8 grams a day, they were definitely working, but I continued up to 12 grams a day, and was totally pain free. I had to retire at 63 years old due to all the pain, but 2 years ago, I decided I felt well enough to get a part time job. I am on my feet at least 6 hours a day, and I run circles around the kids!! Also I think it is important to take Vit C in large doses with the MSM. In any case, good luck to you, and "low and slow" is my motto!!
I agree about msm for allergies.. I truly love this & noticed relief from the first week after talking..
I also love this for my joints (nothing better) & without the side effects for me.. 1,000mgs in my morning coffee!!! Absolutely a great supplement that worked wonders for me.. I will never be without this wonderful supplement msm. No, side effects ever.
Dosage and Tips
It is my understanding that the skin assist the excretory system in elimination of waste. The body may push waste out thru the skin that it does not want to send thru the liver and kidney or, the waste maybe closer to the surface so it exits thru the skin.
The alternative health people seem to want to call a rash a detox symptom when detoxing substances are being consumed. Some say to increase the detox substance while others say back off and go slower.
I think itching with a rash while taking MSM could be caused by not drinking enough water and/or, not taking it in conjunction with vitamin C. We must not forget that it is recommended to do both while taking MSM.
There doesn't seem to be total agreement on what should be done about experiencing detox symptoms. If a rash is indeed a symptom of something being pushed out of the body to stop taking something altogether that is assisting the body to eliminate a toxin seems to defeat the purpose. I can see wanting to slow it down if the rash or other symptom is really sever.
I have worked to detox my body in many different ways. My first real cleaning was about 30 years ago. I was young and I did get some really sever symptoms lots of fever, congestion, and rash. At the time I choose to take more of the substance that I was taking my theory being that I would get it over with and done. I had about 2 weeks of discomfort. After that my health level increased by leaps and bounds.
Other times I have backed off and did it slower. The only symptom I have ever had that made me stop using something is if my throat closes and I can't breathe or if I have chest pains. Unfortunately honey and other bee products does this to me so I can't take anything that is made by bees.
The main thing about learning to have good health is to pay careful attention to your body and how you feel. Ask your body if a symptom you are experiencing is something your body is doing to get rid of something. Your body will tell you the truth so pay close attention to it if you really want to be in good health.
Sometimes we crave things that are really bad for us. I don't know why that is. I gave up soda many years ago and now I can't even swallow it. Yet I still want to drink it also, I crave sweet tea. I have found that every time I give in to the craving and drink it the next day my whole body hurts. I have decided that there is no amount of sweet tea I can drink without it making my body hurt the next day so I just don't ever drink it.
I look for things to keep me healthy yet I do not take many supplements. Eating what I know is good for me does the most good. I eat as much raw foods as possible. I eat a lot of slaw. I also eat fermented vegetables.
I decided to try MSM. I have experienced some itching which seems to have gone away now that I have upped my water intake and taken some vitamin C. I am taking it in a very low dose (1/8 tsp). I am also giving it to my dogs as I found out that it assist their body in eliminating parasites.
I have noticed that my skin and nails are looking better and, a pain that I have in one of my hips feels a little better.
Hi ORH, it's me again! Your posting reminded me of an interesting observation my favourite Aunt espoused when I was very small. Amongst other accomplishments, she graduated with a Diploma in Horticulture, which greatly impressed me as a small boy fascinated by all things natural and gardening. I asked her why we had white bread as well as brown bread? Same for rice, flour and sugar etc. She was an environmentalist and an advocate for organics before those terms were coined in the main stream. She was a woman ahead of her time who put her knowledge into practice on the land. I admired her a lot. She famously said to me, "The companies take all the good stuff out and feed it to the pigs and we are left with the rest". I never forgot that but I should have promptly taken up shares in a pig farm I suppose!
Rachel Carlson (sp?) wrote "Silent Spring" about the same time I would guess. Oh my, we have not learned a lot since then have we??
MAMA,,,,,,,, at our Co-Op there are several brands of MSM, but only one is 100%. My Tractor Driver picked up the 99% and we returned it for the 100%. Like anything else you have to read the labels.
You are right about supplement suppliers raising prices as the the demand goes up. Like Big Pharma, they will " sock it to you baby". I stole a diddy from my an ole boss back in '61 when he told me that "all companies are " chicken sheet. The only difference is the degree". Then, I thought that was a terrible thing to say, but 56 years have passed under the bridge, and I now agree.
Dear Robert Henry,
I happened to be near a tractor supply store today so I popped in. I wanted to get some MSM to try out. I know you say you get yours at the farm stores. As you said, this brand they sold has only MSM. I noticed online that powdered MSM costs twice as much and at least one of them had extra ingredients.
I asked an employee if they had MSM for horses. (I didn't mean to imply that I had a horse, but I know that would help them know what I was looking for.)
When I left, she said, "Good luck with your horse! " I decided not to try and explain why I wanted it and that I didn't even have a horse!
I have had to explain to several children why I have a horse supplement on the kitchen counter, though. It has a picture of a horse and everything! ("We are not getting a horse." "It's for me, actually.") I got some raised eyebrows but they didn't get too excited. They are used to me always trying something new around here. :)
I may give some to my dog, too, as a preventative. His breed is prone to hip problems.
Always something new to learn about, isn't there?
~Mama to Many~