Atrial Fib Remedies

Atrial Fibrillation, H. pylori bacteria, yogurt...

A close relative suffers from atrial fibrillation. I looked around for what information I could find, and on one website found this quote:

"Bacteria Linked to Dangerous Heart Rhythm Patients who have atrial fibrillation (AF) (rapid, irregular rhythm in the heart's upper chambers) are 20 times more likely than others to test positive for Helicobacter *pylori* bacteria. Self-defense: If you are diagnosed with AF, you should be checked for H. *pylori*. Controlling the infection using antibiotics reduces (or eliminates) the heart problem. Annibale Sandro Montenero, MD, director, arrhythmia center, and chair of cardiology, MultiMedica General Hospital, Milan, Italy. Overactive Thyroid Tied to Irregular Heart Rhythm" Anne R."

I am aware that some have used yogurt to control the H. pylori, by eating it twice daily over an extended period of time.

Has anyone had any experience with this, either having both atrial fibrillation and an H. pylori infection, or having used yogurt to treat an H. pylori infection with success?

I had a persistent case of AF, which has largely disappeared since my severe case of H Pylori was treated with antibiotics. My doctor's effort to determine whether I even had H Pylori infection was prompted by an obscure article by Italian researchers who found that almost all of the AF patients were infected.

Re the atrial fibrillation thread - mine usually starts at night - no reason that I can figure. I take a couple of Hawthorne capsules and that usually calms everything down again. Sometimes I have forgotten to eat a banana during the day. Occasionally I take a tablespoon of Floradix Iron. When I was younger and pregnant I often had it and it was very debilitating. I found out by chance that Vitamin B fixed it, too. Thanks for a great web-site.

Pat;

I am with you as I have said on numerous posts about the fact I weaning off of Metropolol for high blood pressure.. I am doing it slowly but its been like 8 months now and still don't feel stable.. down to 25mgs. and trying to get to 12mgs.. although I have had side effects I wouldn't wish any of this stuff on anyone and yes I agree since I take Taurine, L Carnitine and other supplements been feeling a lot better and I put about 1 tablespoon of BM in my tea ... yes feeling better.

Oh; by the way do you cut your pills into 12mgs. or do you just get the pills that way already.. I am having a hard time even with a pill cutter to cut pills into 12mgs.. I am not sure if I am doing the right amount.

Thanks for your affirmations and stay well...

Pat, Thats awesome you've cut down. I truly believe the meds are only a bridge to the costlier methods of ablations and mini mazes. Even with those methods, its no guarantee and still may need meds after. At some point these supplements will hopefully do some restructuring of heart cells. You might be getting some Potassium benefit from the BSM. I see you did Haw to convert, which is fine, however, my ND told me that depending on the amount, not to go with a rate control med with it. I usually do 3000 mg of Haw, 3gms Taurine, 2000mg of Mag to convert. The Flec is rhythm control so may be an option. If you did a few Haw, that may be ok to go with Flec after. He also had no problem with Flec as a PIP. Said the faster you convert, the better, even with a drug. Not like we re on a standing dosage. But if the supplements work, I see no need for Meds to convert. BSM is working out well for me too. Great thought on not be able to cure if you dont know the cause!!

To Bee: I just break the "scored" 25mg pill in half! That's why I preferred the Metapropolol to the other heart rate drug they gave me to try.I think it was Cardizem.I had no control over how much I could take at one time! But as I said, I still take it (12.5mg) every other day.Not off it completely.Afraid it may be helping me from going into a "rapid" afib episode. But trying to use the alternative supplements instead of more drugs.

To Hawkmn05: Thanks for the tip from the ND sbout using H. with the beta blocker to get back in NSR. I only take half of my 25mg Toprol ir I take it with the H.And I have only taken I think 1 ior 2 H.pills(500mg) at that time.Why do you think the ND thinks it is better to take the flecc to get back? I am afraid of my body eventually not responding to that and also of taking it that frequently! Don't think it is a good drug for my heart! And even though I have the "afib" I think my heart is still pretty "healthy" so far. I don't view myself as having "heart issues". Of course none of these drugs are exactly"good" for me are they? I think the alternatives are the way to go.I even tried acupuncture in the beginning but I don't think it helped me much. Just made me a little more relaxed about it. The anxiety about it is what does me in.Just waiting for it! So... now I take"valerian".Dr.Oz says it's good for anxiety and works as well as the Rx.drugs do.Just tak 1 a day.Was taking atavan(the md prescribed it for anx.) and don't seem to need it since I started the valerian.Just wish I could find an ND around here that knows more about these things than I do.But I have to be my own doctor! Or take their poisons! And have the ablations, etc.which as I know don't necessarily work! But the payouts are big! Thanks for any advice you have.I'm getting better every day!

Pat, for my condition, episodes are rare, no more than 3 per year. ND wants me to convert in 4-8 hours. If its longer than that, he believes it more imperative to get back to NSR asap. Fibrosis of the heart has a greater chance of occurring the longer were in AF. So using Flec 3 times per year until remodeling takes place is ok with him. He did say that I could come in and he would intravenously convert me also. Ablations need to improve alot more for alot of us to consider. As it stands now, I don't view as a good bang for the buck.

Acu will work, but you need to have someone familiar with AF and persistent method. I was in a session for 90 min, and 45 min later in NSR.

I understand.Y ou are lucky only 3 per yr! Did you say acupuncture works well for you? I did try it and went for about 6-7 sessions but still had episodes so stopped spending the money.S o far what I am doing is working pretty well for me. And when I need to take the drugs I take them. At least not all the time now thanks to H. mag, and BSM! And "earth clinic"! Wondering how "Bee" is doing with the weaning off of metaprop? I am down to 12.5mg every other day now. And about the ablation, I don't think it stops it forever and sometimes not at all so I will wait till there is a better opt unless I get much worse. Good luck to you and keep posting!

Hi Pat. I just read you're post and thank you so much for thinking of me.

As far as my weaning I am still on 25mgs.of Metropolol and trying to get down to 12.50 but its been tough. I don't get why I am having such a hard time but I must be in that percent range of people who have a high sensitivity to this stuff (crack as I call it)I have read so many stories about this drug its insane and they aren't all good. I should be happy that I got down to 25 from 100 but that took 8 months and many horrible side effects and back sliding at times. I am doing all I can and taking what I need..even added the Hawthorn tea and will most likely get the Hawthorn pill.. I also do the BSM and magnesium with other things

Good to hear you guys are doing well..

To Bee: Sorry to hear you are having a hard time weaning. I also though was thinking of going to the next step, 7.5mg, and am having trouble. Don't know if it is in my 'head' or whether I just can't start taking a lower dose! What have you heard about this drug? You said you knew something about this? I will let you know.

Hi Pat;

well I have read so many testimonies how this drug is shall I say insane to get off of for some people with high sensitivity to it.. I think I am in that bracket.. But it does go by how long you were on it and the miligrams you took.. Since it's a beta blocker, it suppresses the receptors in the heart and when the pill is taken away bit by bit those receptors or adrenaline are activated again. I hope I got that right...Plus one has to get the drug out of the system ..there is def. a mental thing to it also.. If I were you, instead of cutting the pill extend the time you take it by 15 minutes a few times a week.. When you do the 15 minutes then extend it more time.. This way the drug comes out of the system slowly.. I hope this makes sense... So it's process of elimination and not cutting the pill. So now I am up to taking my 12mgs. pill at 5 pm already and then another 12mgs. at 12 midnight.. Hopefully I will eliminate the midnight pill.. does this make sense.??

Ok Bee and Pat, here's my suggestion, stop worrying about stopping a med and just keep adding good things into your system. First of all 7.5 or 12.5mg is most likely doing nothing positive or negative. I can tell you this, no amount kept me from going into AF, so that small amount won't either. I added some serious power walking when I was quitting it and had some rough nights, but eventually your body will tell you when its time.

Pat, Not sure if Acu worked as I did so many other supplements, only that was the last thing I had done before NSR. She was trying different sites, and one she hit, shot a pain to my heart. IT was like a zap, quick shot. After that my rate went down and within 45 min I was out.

BSM is the best with Mag/Haw. Had a few too many red wines other night and had that pausing feeling. 1 tbls with Mag and within minutes, steady and calm.

Hwk.

I know what you are saying.. I am taking ACV, beet root, magnesium, COQ10, L Carnitine, Taurine, Olive leaf, Vit.B , C, D, E, Alpha Lopic Acid, BSM drinking organic herbal teas so that isn't the issue.... I was taking (M) for high blood pressure and now of course it has messed with my heart rate.. and yes I do go by how my body feels and I do listen to what my body says.. I did not follow the doctors instructions because If I did God knows what would have happened. I am following my inner guidance...so it has taken me longer to wean down. I just do not like the side effects one bit and they are real... Some days I am afraid to even go for a walk because all the things I read said do not do exercise when weaning off a beta blocker..it puts too much strain on the heart.. I will most likely get Hawthorn .. I am drinking Hawthorn tea for now..

thank you

Yogurt for h. Pylori is like a bandaid for gangrene. Read latest report on yougurt on mercola.

Thank you Hawkmn! I understand what you're saying because I think the same thing but I think Bee is right and there is a little something causing a dependency on it. I will get off it, I'm sure. And believe you in that it probably won't affect my afib to be on or off it. I will just take it when I have an episode, like I do the fleccainide sometimes. I don't believe that there is any drug they have that will keep me from having the afib because they don't know what causes it! Just make the BP companies money giving us useless drugs and telling us that they will help! If they helped maybe I would take them! And to Bee, thanks for the tip that is what I am doing now! Try the BSM, too it really calms things. Just 1 Tbsp. a day! Will keep posting. So happy to find all of this help! Happy holiday!

Pat, yes the BSM is as good as the Mag for me now. Wondering if Potassium levels are critical for us also? Starting month 4 AF free on supplements only. Not even an aspirin in my cabinet.

Dr Rath says it best. "Conventional medicine has invented its own diagnostic terms to cover the fact that it does not know the origin of most arrhythmias. "Paroxysmal" arrhythmia means nothing else than "causes unknown." As a direct consequence, the therapeutic options of conventional medicine are confined to treating the symptoms of irregular heartbeat. Beta-blockers, calcium antagonists, and other anti-arrhythmic drugs are given to patients in the hope that they decrease the incidents of irregular heartbeat. Lacking an understanding of the primary cause of irregular heartbeat, the therapeutic approaches by conventional medicine are not specific and therefore frequently fail." http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/pdf-files/heart_book.pdf

I am on supplements only and having no more afib attacks than when on meds. They seem to be shorter lived with hawthorneIi guess. Hope it continues. Also taking magnesium, etc.but take hawthorne and it works as good as a beta blocker ( toprol) it seems. Took less flec when I had the last episode only 150 instead of 200. Will try 100 next time. Thanks for the tips!

Pat. great news.......so happy for you and yes hope it continues.

I am down to 12 mgs. of Metoprolol but was taking it for hbp and anxiety...I am def . on natural remedies . I bought some Hawthorne; the liquid kind but hesitating on using it yet.. I don't know why?? waiting for a sign from above lol

Oh; ever since weaning off and using magnesium and yes I use extra for now palpitations (fingers crossed) have not been around.. I am still getting the jittery feeling and a few side effects but working through it.. I just get nervous about my heart rate being normal again and I took 10 months to do this.. It Is still scary.. I just want to be normal again ...lol

Ha Hwk.. What I meant from signs above was that I listen to my own inner guidance and higher self to determine what is good for me and when I can quit something or whatever.. I listened to my gut and psyche to wean off medication and not by what the doctors had told me because they were wrong.. and of course from others and what I learned on EC which is priceless.

Anyway; yes I take Taurine, Magnesium and will be trying Hawthorn soon when I feel the sign LOL. I just would like my heart rate to not go bonkers anymore but its def. the withdrawel from weaning off the (M) which I hate but what else can I do?? I am doing all that I can already.oh; I also do EFT tapping and that seems to lower my bp and heart rate.. I also meditate which helps..

thank You

Hwkmn05 introduced me to this thread and I'm glad he did! I have had paroxysmal afib for going on 9 years now. Up until now I've had one episode a year (if that). Now I get 1-2 per week! I have an ablation scheduled for February but I'd love to find a way to keep my episodes to a minimum between now and then - and to have a program in place after the ablation to hopefully lick this crap.

To that end, can you guys tell me what "BSM" stands for? And do you take it daily? And when you have an episode, how much Hawthorne Berry do you take? I've been doing Flecainide with every episode but I'd like to limit the amount I take so if I can supplement it with Hawthorne Berry that would be great. I just don't know how much I should take.

Travis

Bee, no dude, I'm not into crystals either...lol. Seriously tho, Kinesiology is as weird as I go. I have tried the tapping with temporary success, but I have mixed feelings about that. Yes I have read up on Pauling, very interesting also.

Acu I have tried, but only when in AF. I can't commit to the amount they would like me to.

I'm next going for testing of metals. Just finished the salt test levels for high levels in urine, negative. If those tests are positive, fillings will come out and will go for oral chelation.

Kineser did help a great deal with neck issues and working on getting the curve back in my straight neck. Possibly this is it, affecting vagal nerve, but then, who the heck really knows with this condition! Of course he did not agree with all the supplements I'm taking. Believes I need to get all from right foods and I'm guessing he's an herbavore. Screw that, give me Afib and my Tbone!

Hwk.. I am a girl so you may address me as dudes lol..

Anyway; well you might have hit on something.. heavy metals could be it.. and yes chelation but I don't quite understand chelation and doesn't it have to be done under very good supervision..

I have heard of Vit.C drips.. that last naturopathic horror show doctor did that in that office.. I just wonder how much it cost but yeah; anything for relief..

I remember the last convo about electronics. My bet is on that stuff too.. Microwaves, computers, etc.etc...

Hwk... I forgot to add........ you must have heard of earthing or grounding?? Dr. Stephen Sinatra even believes in it.

I know in summertime when I am outside with bare feet on the ground everyday for half hour or so heck I feel a lot better .. now it's too cold here in NY so I won't be doing much of that now but they do sell grounding sheets, blankets and bio mats.

It's just that a lot of these things get pricey ...

You can also make your own grounding things.

Bee and Pat, onto the latest cure. Grounding, not so much. It may have some benes, but not sure how it can contribute to our heart area.

I am now 1 week PVCs free since March, after a simple visit to the Kinesiologist. His feeling that vagus nerve was seriously pinched, and heat, not ice on my neck every day and night for a few hours. Working on getting the curve back in my neck. I've drunk coffee , fatigued myself, dehydrated etc, notta, zippo skips or pausing. Interesting that once when I had low back injury, PT had me doing the cobra exercise, on stomach, lifting upper torso as high as I could with 5 pillows under me. Worked. Now putting a big pillow under my neck, hanging head off the bed backwards and heating it. Time will tell, but to date, best thing yet. I'm not sure this will work for everyone, but for $40 visit, well worth it to try. Stopped mag and hawthorne this week also, just to see and so far, no issues.

To Hawkmn05: Sorry about the afib attack. But glad to hear you are not discouraged. Not surprised that it happened, I guess. We always wish something will work to get rid of it completely! But no worries, you're still doing alot of good things for yourself that may be helping in the long run! I also believe that mine is from vagus nerve and after you mention it probably will go to a good chiro after holidays are over and let them align my spine if that will help! So hang in there! I also have had a few episides lately and cannot drink any alcohol at all! Or I definitely go into afib! Sooo, on to the next plan! Definitely think all the supplements are helping though, especially H. and Mag. We will find a way to stop this, yet! Good luck and keep posting on how it goes! Sounds very interesting! Take care!

Check if Buteyko method might be the next thing to employ.

Keep in mind you really do need to work with a practitioner.

Sam, thats a very interesting method to say the least. I could agree with most of that. Yes, you really do need some professional guidance with Buteyko. Nothing to play around with. My CP was 25-28, not great , not horrible, but Id like to see 60 and see the beast gone for good. Conventional meds once again notice the issue with OSA, but ignore the root of the problem, open mouth and rapid breathing, tossing an ugly cumbersome mask on patients, not for me. Thanks.

Only a practitioner can help you to calculate correct CP. One can't observe himself therefore is not aware if he is ignoring his first impulse to breath. What I find extremely interesting is that low co2 levels affect the entire function of our bodies, its chemistry and electrophysiology. I am waiting for my evaluation via sky which is scheduled mid January. My CP is 15.

Pat and Bee, NSR this winter? Long time no hear but Guessing no news is good news. Still AF free here and getting neck adjusted with massage for triggers in muscles. No PVCS and no sign of heart skipping. Time will tell, Stay warm and NSR!

hi Everyone......It is so comforting to read that I am not in this battle alone...............I have picked up some good tips from everyone......The doc, s say I have AF.....bit I am not sure, I am so glad that the vagus nerve was mentioned, as I believe that that is a big problem that the doc does not want to get into....funny thing, I had a car accident, and that is when I had my first episode, and I read that others have had similar situations....again thanks for the information.

to: Hawkmn05. Started having afib attacks more often about 2 mos after stopping the topro l(beta blocker) Felt so much better without it but thought maybe that was why it started up again so went back on very low dose(12.5mgs) only at night. Still take low dose of H.and all the other supplements in a.m. So far, so good! Will let you know! Glad you are doing o.k.

Topsy, I Doc does not want to get into it? Hmmm, mine wasn't interested either, so he's the 5th Cardio I've fired. They're not God, and perhaps only have their best interest at heart, pun intended. With this condition and all the variables for triggers and severity, everything is on the table. If it wasn't such a dramatic change in my PVCs, I would possibly have just left feeling better about my neck and shoulder injury. Mind you, my car accident was 25 years ago, and my AF is 5 years. Of course, we never know how we heal as we age. Regards.

Pat, Sorry to hear the beast came back. That is such a small dose I'd be thankful that's working to keep you NSR. Heck, I saw a post the other day by someone ablated that still takes 50 mg Top twice a day! Why get ablated?? Along with that rat poison. 12.5mg for me is like baby aspirin. I was put on 4000mg of C this winter as sickness seems to be a precursor to AF some times. So far no flus and no AF. I'm working with another ND on a hair sample and looking into chelation via suppositories. I'll let you know if my tests show I'm a walking mercury bank. Ciao

I am thankful that 12.5mg seems to work but I don't want to get ablated yet, of course! That is heavy duty to me! Scary! I also increased my Vit c to 2000 a day.Maybe I should take more! I do think it helps! As does Mag, Hawthorne, Coq10 Vit E etc.Keep my blood thin with the E. Still take a baby asp 3-4x week. I still want to find an alternative doc. Will have to be my own guinea till then! Things could be worse! I am figuring some of it out, I think! I will have to make an appt with the "arrythmia" doctor soon, though! Haven't been since June! As for you (and me) thank God the "flecc" gets my NSR back! Sometimes just more of the Toprol works for that and I don't have to take any "flec"! Never know! Usually takes 2-3 hrs to get back but I always wait 1-2 before I decide totake the "flec"! Stay well! Keep posting about the chelation, etc!

Pat, I m with you on feelings about ablations. It seems that there are mixed reviews with it. If it was a simple "one and done" like taking a gall bladder or yanking a tooth out, More would be lining up for them. What gets me is, most still are on rat poison and meds after! I know of one person who had one, got off meds, and no AF since. One doesn't cut it for me. I truly believe that there can be some restoration of cells with supplements after a time. I am quite skeptical of conventional now because of the big money involved with surgeries and meds. In 2 weeks Im off to a holistic dentist to consult about root canal, mercury fillings. No coincidence Afib started after the root canal along with Hypothyroidism. Tho, I have to say, neck adjustment is the best cure so far. Covering all the bases Pat! One other to research is Acetyl L Carnitine. Let me know what you think. Stay NSR.

Guys....had to comment on this post...Only today I was watching an interview where this physician was saying that afib is actually caused by an abnormal spine. According to him if you fix the spine the problem goes away...he also did say that doctors will not tell you this and what they typically do is ablate the heart which leaves you most of the time with permanent damage...they did this to my Mom....wish I had this knowledge then...anyways, hope this helps....take care,

Thanks, Loraine.I have been thinking of going to chiropractor too.Will have to follow through! And to Hwk: I know of 2 people that had success with ablation and right that doesn't make me wanna run in and get it but if my episodes get more frequent, I don't know.They already come once a week and that is bad enough.Although the"flec" gets me back to NSR in about 2hrs. But still interrupts my life and never know when! Usually when I have something I want to do or somewhere I want to go! Trying not to let it stop me! But not a nice feeling! Will keep on looking for alternative treatments since I don't know if traditional medicine knows the answer either! I guess it could be worse! Bee, let me know if the L-teanine helps the anx! Take care, all

Thanks, Loraine.I have been thinking of going to chiropractor too.Will have to follow through! And to Hwk: I know of 2 people that had success with ablation and right that doesn't make me wanna run in and get it but if my episodes get more frequent, I don't know.They already come once a week and that is bad enough.Although the"flec" gets me back to NSR in about 2hrs. But still interrupts my life and never know when! Usually when I have something I want to do or somewhere I want to go! Trying not to let it stop me! But not a nice feeling! Will keep on looking for alternative treatments since I don't know if traditional medicine knows the answer either! I guess it could be worse! Bee, let me know if the L-teanine helps the anx! Take care, all

Bee: If I may offer a possible cause for your difficulties in detoxing pharmaceuticals. There are many detox pathways within the overall P-450 Phase 1&2. Glucuronidation is the most common path for pharma detox. There may be liver disease causing even other pathways dysfunction, or maybe even heavy metal toxicity. Inadequate protein intake can also weaken detox.

For now, you can purchase Calcium d-Glucarate from Source Naturals and see if you get relief. For best results fallow the CdG w/ d-Limonene (Orange Peel Oil) softgels (which boost the entire 1&2 P-450). Also, never eat grapefruit or drink the juice as it inhibits detox and increases drug levels in the blood.

Thanks, Bee.I also remember that when this first started I had been taking care of my grandson 1 day a week.Had always had back trouble for about 25 yrs here and there and possible that I aggravated it more so with all the lifting, etc.of the baby.That is why I think I should follow in"Hwkmn 05" direction and see a chiropractor. It just may be what I need.In the meantime I am taking only 12.5mg toprol a day and only take the other med(flecc) when I go into and "afib"episode if that is really what they are! I kind of believe it has nothing to do with my heart and is probably the vagus nerve causing the afib fro inflammation maybe! Something like that anyway! I feel your disgust at taking meds that give you more side effects than help.They just throw you on things without even making sure that is what your problem is! Never look too hard! Just find a drug that they think will treat the symptoms not the cause! Which is why we are all looking for our own cures! Hope you get some relief from the anxiety. This condition also causes me to have it they say! Guess so when your heart feels like it's racing out of control inside you! That would cause a little anxiety! Sooo, Hope you feel better!

Also forgot to mention that you may look into herbs for anx ( passionflower is one) and "natural" progesterone cream (found at "whole foods") also is very "calming"! May be all that is needed instead of the meds.

Hi Tim;

Thank You.. I appreciate the feedback and yes will def. look into the things you mentioned.

not sure what it all means though and no I don't drink grapefruit juice. I basically only stick with water and I eat 99 percent organic and mostly veggies and fish and grains and pasta..I don't eat red meat so maybe I do eat more protein at this time. I do eat beans and that sort of thing.. thinking its enough protein.. the liver thing is strange but I feel as if I have gallstones. I use chanca piedra and drink lemons .. I would like to do a liver cleanse. Thanks again

To Hwkmn:I am getting frustrated, you are right! But every time I say I will go have the damn ablation, I find something to start making me feel better again! Then I vow to not get it! Really need to go to the chiropractor! Haven't yet.Went to see a hormone MD that ordered me $3600.00 worth of blood tests that all came back normal. I think.Haven't been back to him yet! Oh well, It is a crazy condition! I will be bouncing back again! Hope you are well! Thanks for listening!

Hi Pat;

oh; sorry about your troubles but I did find a great doctor who is I think is osteopathic on utube. His name is Peter Glidden.. Please look him up. He believes that Afib is def. caused from the back and spine.. but go to utube and type in Dr. Peter Glidden and check out his videos.. He is really good.. I just found him and he has some great info..

Thank you, Bee for the information on Dr. Glidden.The video was very interesting and informative, I agree! Looks like there might be something to that theory.At least I personally, would not be surprised at all if there was.I have never believed that it is a "heart" problem, per say.Always felt, instinctively, that something else is causing the heart to beat erratically at times.And the fact that they try and put you on beta blockers for BP and antiarrythmic drugs that practically do nothing to help speaks volumes also! They are clueless as Dr.Peter Glidden suggests.I will keep up with him and get to the chiropractor soon.In the meantime I guess I will just keep coming to earthclinic for answers. Thanks!

Hi Pat;

yeah; I like that guy but he does sell supplements but I do enjoy his points of view .. I would def. seek out a chiro or someone other than a regular M.D.. I am going to try so hard not to go to the doctor anymore... Even the osteopaths I saw at the clinic were not trained well enough and still were into drugs so not sure why Glidden thinks osteopaths are the way to go. I am not even impressed with naturopaths either but at least they might have better solutions to health issues than regular M.D..

I do EFT everyday and some videos go into telling the person to keep digging, searching and finding out the causes of these issues.. try some EFT . it can't hurt. I do it to lower my heart rate when I have anxiety. Have you tried the L theanine. I love that stuff along with magnesium..

Pat and Bee, I've watched Glidden for about a year now. I do agree with him on the spine cause, however his treatment of just ice on your C-5 area doesnt go far enough, at least for me. I actually went into afib right after a Chiro visit last March. I only realized some benefit after going to a Kinesiologist, vastly different than a Chiro, IMO. His adjustment and advice to heat the area for 3 days as hot as I could stand it, was the solution, not ice. Now when I feel my neck is out, I heat for 30 min and stretch my neck/shoulder and use a "bodybackbuddy" on some trigger areas. Not to say Ice and Chiro won't work for others, but did not for me.

Hwkmn05 (at) hotmail.com. Email me if you like and I'll share more in detail on my treatment.

Hello All, just wanted to chime in about Afib and the role of magnesium. I can't remember if I had added the following information. Many people in my industry (hint, hint) who have afib are low in magnesium RBCs which many MDs do not check. The necessary value needs to be 6.0 mg/dl or above not the 4.3 - 6.8 mg/dl. Go get your magnesium RBCs checked (not the serum magnesium - this tells you nothing about the condition of your magnesium depletion from your heart. The heart uses 40% of the magnesium that is in your blood stream. When your serum magnesium is low, it pulls the magnesium from the heart hence your magnesium RBC (red blood cell) are low. This occurs often. Google Dr. Carolyn Dean - an ND and MD who has studied this area extensively.

I wish everyone the best.

To Myway, Delaware: How do you check your RbcMagnesium? What test is that? Since you say "serum mg" isn't the same? Never heard of it. I hope I get some relief from something soon. Back on the 25 metapropol again since 2 mos after going off everything the afib episodes started coming more frequently(every 3-4 days) as opposed to every 2 weeks or so and I thought that the medicine must be helping afterall so went back on it. Will check out the chiro but I am afraid it may make bring on the afib, too! Taking my time on that one. Wish they had a pill that really worked! No rhyme or reason to this! Very frustrating condition, not being able to control it! Must be something they have done to our environment! Too many cell towers, etc.messing with our electrical systems in the heart! Keep searching for answers but don't know if I will find any! Already taking so many supplements! That is a pain, too! Do they really do anything??

Hi Pat,

A woman on another site had trouble getting magnesium into her cells and had resorted to daily injections to bring her RBC magnesium levels up. She found that magnesium orotate, in Cardio Mag2, an OTC supplement was able to increase her level higher than any other supplement or injection she had tried. She has her RBC mag checked regularly and says this is the best for this. I do not believe she has AFib, but it might be something to investigate. Best wishes.

Pat;

I am so sorry for your troubles but if you had to go back on 25mgs. of (M) its okay.. I don't think 25 is so bad and if you have to do it for now then don't be so hard on yourself.. In the end when all else fails sometimes there is no choice until you find something better.. I don't like drugs or western medicine but these things seem to be stepping stones or bridges to the next best thing.. If all natural things don't work for me I would have to consider western medicine..I am now working on my spiritual side too and seeing what emotional parts play in my health . You might want to check into that also..

Take Care

Thanks, Bee. I guess you're right. I am taking a very small dose of Toprol (12.5) and I guess that is what I will do for now! I did try a lot of things but nothing else really worked although I do still try to keep up with the vits and minerals. I will be happy if anything works at this point. I hate having my heart go off suddenly with no warning. It is really an interruption in my life that I don't need! And I do take a spiritual approach to this condition also. I definitely believe everything happens for a reason! Don't know what it is, that's all! I really shouldn't complain about taking a low dose of beta blocker in my life! Many people have much worse things to deal with! Sometimes you just have to get a better perspective on things! Some days are better than others! I just like to have a little more control over things. C'est la vie! Stay well!

Just had an appt. with a chiropractor Since my back went out over the weekend! I figured I wanted to try it so this was as good a time as any. And she said that ice was the thing to do for my low back inflammation along with the motrin 600's I told her I had been taking since Saturday. She said that absolutely could be pressure on the vagus nerve that causes the afib.episodes. Not that I don't have it, but I think that something sets it off so that I become symptomatic! Will have to talk to her some more about that later. Just wanted to get the back straightened out for now! Wondering how Hwkmn 05 is making out with his treatments?? Let me know! I also do want to get the L theanine soon and try it. I am definitely less anxious about the afib when I read all these other posts from people with similar problems! Makes it seem not as bad! I am grateful to learn of other ways of dealing with it!

Pat, glad you found your way to the Chiro. Hopefully they provide some relief. My impingement wasn't in my lower back, but neck. I did not use a Chiro however, because they always adjust my neck side to side. The issue is on the inside of my neck/spine vertebrae C1-5, and now I do my own adjustment, Heat for 1 hour, hanging head over the edge of a bed for 30 min. PACs gone for 3 months now. I used to use Ice also. That was ok for low back, but not upper. Keep us posted!

Marhie, welcome and wow. That is quite a post. I will definitely check out that book, because I do know the answer to that question, mine tried to do his best to. Unfortunately, they don't improve from one to the next and the younger they are the more meds they prescribe. As Glidden says, fire your MD. I canceled my EP appt last Oct to the surprise of my Cardio. I'm not sure why he was surprised, I canceled his super script of 200mg per day of Flec last July. After seeing this post, I wont be rescheduling.

This seems rather low and I'm wondering why we hear of 80-90% success rates for those not in persistent AF? You wrote "CAT (Cardiac Ablation Therapy) has a 23% success rate over 3 years." There must be some ambiguity associated with these figures.

Thanks for the info and stick around to enlighten us with more good reports. James

M: Thanks for your testimony. For good, scientifically validated remedies check out Jon Barron's "Baseline Of Health" website and his free e-book Lessons From The Miracle Doctors.

When you confessed to being a missionary and traveling around the globe the first flag flying in my mind is exposure to parasites and pathogens which you seem to have neglected to mention in combination w/ the common environmental toxins. Hulda Clark made the critical link to cancer and many other diseases including diabetes as parasites conspire w/ environmental toxins for habitat and survival (which renders the immune & detox unable to remove them). I will never travel abroad without using a Zapper very often.

Let us know if you make any progress.

Marhie, Yes I know of 3 ablated over 3 years. One on zero meds, one still on most everything and one still going into Afib. Not a great success rate.

FDA has approved ablations. (http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm109073.htm)

However this may be the confusion, they don't agree that it will free patients from meds or prevent stroke! " While atrial fibrillation is a major risk factor related to stroke, there is no conclusive evidence that links the treatment of symptoms by ablation to a reduction in stroke. Therefore, the FDA agrees with the American College of Cardiology, the American Heart Association and the European Society of Cardiology, which recommend that patients at risk for stroke continue to take blood-thinning medications after ablation procedures for atrial fibrillation."

The other allopathic sites are all excited with the ablation frenzy this spring. However, they seem to have the most long term complaints with PAC and PVCs along with AF and meds. I would like to wish them all well, but if I'm being honest, the road ahead for them isn't really paved much smoother.

Thank you to Mahrie Bc Canada for that enlightening information! Sounds like you have been through quite a bit! I have often thought that it possibly could e from some sort of glitch in the nervous system somewhere and that theory seems to be what you have investigated also! Unfortunately it doesn't sound like there is noanswer or a fix for this! I will read the book you suggested and maybe will find some answers there??? But sure am glad I haven't rushed into Ablation yet even though my frustration level gets so bad I feel vulnerable enough to do it sometimes! The "afib" is such an unexpected interruption in my life! Hence the frustration! And it lasts for hours on end no matter what meds I take! (or supplements).How do you cope with yours and how often do you have the episodes of afib? Mine are at least once a week now! Started 2 yrs ago as about once a month or 3 weeks! Why do they tell us that the ablation is 88-90% success rate they think?Are they really lying to us all? I don't know!

If it is part of the package, as you say, of "generalized panic disorder, wouldn't some antidepressant of some sort help with this? I have also wondered whether to try that also! Haven't tried it, though. But I would if it may help alittle.My daughter, also has SVT (another arrythmia) and she said that once they put her on Paxil for something else(another chronic condition that she has) and that her SVT did stop for at least 3-4 months.But she went off it because she was afraid to stay on it and she gained 40 lbs.which was also unacceptable!

I also come from a family history full of anxiety and panic disorders! I wonder if that is a clue to all of this. But wouldn't anxiety/panic disorder meds help if this is the case? Even if I could get the episodes to be less frequent it would be a help! I am at my wits end with this! It is on my mind 24/7! That also doesn't help, I know! But it's how I'm "wired" I guess! The only way the M.D. can lessen the episodes or get rid of, they say is ablation, since the meds(just take metapropol low dose and take fleccanide when I get an episode with more metapropol)don't seem to help me much at all!

Like to hear your input! Thanks!

Stay well!

Pat, I hope you can get some relief soon, good grief, thats too much. I have the book coming in Wed. I enjoy most alternative med books. I bought one on triggers for all conditions and then I got the BackBodybuddy to work on different muscle groups. It works great.

Yeah, if the ablations were that successful, we'd all be lining up for them. Of course they had to admit finally after lying to us for years that ablation basically is worthless for Persistent AF patients.

Thanks, HawkMn 05! I really am having lots of frustration over how often it comes now, hence the thoughts of ablation! Which I have talked myself out of again thanks to all the info on this lately! You want to believe but obviously really can't believe the docs! They make it sound so good! When you are desperate you will try most anything! But I know that and that is why I am holding off! Even my husband thinks I should get it! But I am not there yet since I don't even know that it has as much to do with the "heart" as they think! Could be triggered from something else! For now that is how I see it! "Mahrie has some interesting points too! I really hve never believed it is a problem with my heart! The docs in the E.R. after looking at my "echo" said "I have the heart of a 20 year old"! But "in afib"! Will I still have no problems with my heart after they get done with me??*(ablation?) I doubt it! Next they will tell me I need a pacemaker! And the heart was fine before! Just not sure that it is risk free! Anyway, Thanks for you good thoughts and support! That goes unsaid always! And keep posting and talking me out of it!!! See ya!

Marhie, thanks again for the good info. Of course doctors wont warn us, thats how they make their living!!! Youre not the first to tell us how difficult it is to get off Metop, Bee and Pat have been trying for months with little success.

Right now there is an ablation frenzy out there. My take on this is, ablation is like taking a bulb out of a light with the switch still sending a current to the empty socket. Still why many have PVCs and issues after.

Me, I was on Metop for 3 years, however my adherence was less than stellar. I took only at night, 12.5 to 25mg and not every night. Had PVCs forever, didnt keep me in NSR, and even taking 200mg, did not convert me. I had a slow, irregular HR. Went to Class 1 med, Flecainide. I guess it kept me NSR, but wow, side effects were unbearable. So I tossed all the meds, still had PVCs, still went into AF 4 times in 6 mos, but this time, self converted for first time ever with supplements. Came to the conclusion that meds were not only dangerous, but basically only a mask barely alleviating symptoms.

Pat, I bet hubby is thinking you've reached that point where that is most likely all that's left to do. I can't blame him. Funny that I had the worst year ever last year in 5 years, and now, tho cautiously, I believe I'm having my best year. Time will tell. There are just too many on here that have beat this condition with other methods, gut issues, removing fillings, root canals, thyroid treament etc. Finding yours has been a challenge. No doubt mine is partially spine issue, but next to go is my root canal which I believe may be impacting my Thyroid. We all get into that catch 22 where we cant treat liberally if we are on meds with the threat of contraindications. It has to be a transition with patience and common sense. I have to believe there is someone out there who can fix you besides an allopath.

You're right about my husband. He thinks like the docs! Just go have the ablation and you will be all better! Not always the case! I've been thinking that it can't get any less frequent again but you say last yr was a bad one and this yr not so bad.That is good! We will see how long I can tolerate this! It is wearing me down! Running out of steam from having it so often. Can't say"no" forever if it stays like this! That is the reality of the situ! Oh well, it is a battle! And you know what? I'm gonna win! I'll persevere! You know, I know so many people that have had much worse surgeries than the A. and much worse medical issues .In the big picture, I should be able to get through this! Will let you know! God bless us all!

Pat, get the book and make sure hubby reads it. Some areas were redundant for me, but the chapter on arrhythmias was an eye opener. I would seriously consider Mag Chol 200 IV if I were you. Possibly get a Mag RCB test first. I may get some and have ND inject myself. Author is suggesting 1200mg per day, which is a load to take, but it makes sense. Ablation was not high on her list, last resort with low success. No surprise that most of my episodes came shortly after taking or quitting meds. She explains the reason for that. Good read for all heart issues.

Hawk: Is the book called "is you cardiologist killing you"The one that "Maahrie" suggested? I will try to read it. It sounds like an awful lot of Mag. But who would give you a "mag IV"? Problem around my area is there aren't many, if any, ND's close by! I still haven't found one! Still just experimenting with different supplements on my own! And this whole thing is breaking the bank! I wouldn't mind if anything worked, but wasting a lot on things that don't! Gets crazy after awhile!

To Mahrie: Thanks for the info.Sorry to hear about the loss of your child! Nothing can be harder! You have dealt with much stress in your life, it sounds! Amazing what we can withstand when we have to, isn't it? But health issues do pop up eventually as we get older and life has been, let's say, "very full" of different stresses along the way! Guess that is how we're programmed! Guess I will just have to stay on the meds (metapropol daily and fleccanide, when I have breakthrough of Afib) and hope I can get some relief! I do have ativan (low dose 0.5) for the anxiety from the meds when I need it! Of course it stinks that I can't drink any alcohol at all or I will go into afib and never was a big drinker but enjoyed my glass of wine now and then and would REALLY enjoy one occasionally now that I have this! How ironic! Of all the times in your life when you could use a drink and you can't have one! Don't get the connection there with the afib! Even my doctor told me I should be able to have a glass of wine.But I told her I can't. I immediately, after I swallow a gulp, feel a palp start and will go into it if I keep drinking it. Have to throw it away! I will try to read the book and see what is up in it! Thanks!

I think it probably does help lessen the frequency of the breakthrough episodes of afib if the anxiety is at a minimum.But I take the lorazepam if I feel too anxious.Of course, I don't like taking anything which is why I am looking for alternative treatments for the afib.So I probably don't take enough lorazepam to calm down a mouse! Hate putting anything foreign into my body! I think I will try some more to see if a "calmer" me helps at all! But do you think xanax works better for some reason than lorazepan?I thought they were sort of the same thing. And I really do need to calm down about taking a few meds! But that is just me! Thanks for the advice! And getting afib hasn't helped my anxiety levels at all! Blessings!

Marhie, good advice, on the single malt that is, and not too bad on the lesser issue, AF.

Pat, HwkWmn brought home a nice Malbec Friday. I havent partaken too often, but it's been a long cold winter! ND told me to load up on Mag and Alpho lipic acid before I have a glass of red. Seemed to work with no issues. Hope you can toast again soon!

Hi Hawk, May I ask your a question please? when you say load up on ALA how much is that? I am taking 300 mgs. per day... I also do the magnesium at about 900mgs. per day.. thanks

Bee, where have you been!!? The daily dosage of ALA is 300mg, so I increase to 2-3 caps a couple of hours before a drink.

Also, for you Java junky Afibbers who have been told to give up your favorite beverage, I mix 1 tbls of coconut oil with 12oz of coffee in my bullet. It neutralizes the cortisol and you won't get the palps or jitters from it. It works and I love the flavor. Cheers.

I am here Hwk.

Thank you...............well I don't drink now because I thought yes it brought on shakes and all from too much sugar or when I drank I didn't feel well at all... Maybe I will try more ALA and have some wine.......That would be nice... Thank you

You know, Mahrie These issues and feeling every beat as you said are really annoying! And, Hawk, Mn, I am going to start to have a wine now and then since they put me back on the meds and see if they help! I am going to get another opinion soon with another group of cardiac docs because my friend said that she doesn't think they should talk to me the way they are. So I think I will try another person just to see if he can be a little more "calming" for me. Sometimes a change of personality! But I know they are going to push the ablation too, probably! Do they do this with everyone else? Or is it just me? Thanks for your input! I will appreciate it!

Pat, I don't blame you. Too funny, last year with my first AF of the year, I opened a nice Cab up and poured a large glass for myself. Wife said, what are you doing??? I said, screw it, I haven't had a drink in 10 months and went into Fib, I'm having a drink!!

From the book, Is your Cardio, Dr suggests the
"ACEs" regimen of Vitamins. Beta, C, and a good E with selenium. I took a large good C all winter and Im wondering if that had something to do with controlling inflammation in arteries or heart tissue keep me NSR? Trouble with me is I take so many things, I'm not sure what worked and what didn't!!!

Pat, I'd give the ablation a try for a couple of reasons. You've given it quite a long time to beat this, and it seems as tho you're at a standstill. Yes, it may destroy tissue, but if you get a good EP, hopefully you're one and done. We don't have a whole lot of good, not time, but good time left really, 15/25 years , give or take 10? That's no way to live. It's a trade off and as many that speak negatively, there are just as many that would do it again. IMO.

Most important nutrients are magnesium, low dose calcium, potassium and CoQ10. Try the magnesium orotate form rather than other forms of magnesium.

Pat, and of course you can always take supplements after ablation. Most that go that route think they can live the way they used to before surgery. If you've always been healthy, you'll most likely be able to deal with this. At least you can say it wasn't a first line treatment, and a last resort. No shame in getting your life back!

Haven't posted for a few months.Just checking in to say that I had to go back to traditional meds in March since stopping it all before that and trying to use just the supplements.Am back to weaning at least the fleccanide (taking 50mg 2xday) a little. Still taking vitamins and minerals.Maybe not as much since going on meds. I also decided to find an alternative doctor and after telling him about being diagnose in 2yrs ago with afib and telling him that I believe it had something to do with hormone loss since I had just turned 60 and had no other health problems, he put me on some natural hormone cream("BHT") Not the synthetic hormones that the big pharmaceuticals make but natural bio-identicals and so far so good.The doctor says not only may it lessen my episodes but it may make it go away completely! I'm not going to hang on that though! I'll be happy if it just helps lessen! I did alot of research and reading on these and they are relatively safe and actually can keep your body healthy and free from disease unlike the others. So will post later when I see what happens. Hope Hawkmn05 and Bee are doing well!

My heart arrhythmia disappeared, never to return, when I stopped eating cooked carbohydrates.

These are known to be inflammatory. I was already eating mostly raw paleo.

Hope this helps.

Pat, that's encouraging. That is why this condition is so frustrating, there are diverse causes and cures. I hope that works for you. One other site I visit is into the ablation frenzy, one a week it seems. Very few success stories, some with 3 or more, still in AF, and yes, still on meds. That is always the biggest fear and concern, that the knife fails to cure this.

I'm now nearly 7 months from last episode and nearly a year in august to 1 in a year. Still no meds, not even an aspirin or advil. 2 most beneficial supplements for myself are Magnesium Glycinate/malate and Vit C, 1667mg twice daily. I believe the C is helping with inflammation which may aggravate the Vagus. I have had very few PACs, maybe 2-3 per week, where it used to be 25 per day. I get all my mercury removed in one month and then the root canal comes out. No coincidence that I had the canal done in 2008 and thyroid issue in 2009, Afib in 2010. Anyway, its coming out and hopefully that helps.

William, that's interesting. I eat nothing raw now, not even a salad. All veggies are cooked slightly. Case in point, get your biggest frying pan, over fill it with Greens and cook it down. You will end up with less than a fistful of greens. Humans can't possibly eat the amount of raw veggies that cows with 4 stomachs can in order to get enough minerals and nutrition. No gluten either, which I believe has been a huge help in digestion and weight loss.

Did you say you are off all meds and what made you decide to go off them? Also, I think the magnesium and vit c work for me too! But I am still taking 1 flecannide(50mg) a day and 1(25mg )toprol a day Take flec in a.m. and toprol in p.m.since the last time I stopped all the meds it only lasted about 2 months before the afib came back with a vengeance! Was getting it every 2 days! So I went to cardio doctor and she said flec2x day and 25 mg beta blocker. I still think it is some kind of digestive problem since the less I eat the better I am! Originally it only came on after eating and no one could tell me why! Very crazy condition! Seems nobody has many answers! So hope it keeps going away like yours did! I know that the body can heal itself! Just takes time! Will keep trying!

Pat, IMO, Meds are the bridge to the big $$, ablation. I got off them because I didnt want to be dependent on anything that wasnt a cure. Sure, drugs work and do what they are supposed to do, alleviate symptoms. Flec is a serious med, such that we need to pass a stress test to take a standing dose. I do keep on hand for a quick return to NSR, but have only used once in a year. I stopped the standing dose a year ago June. Metoprolol never did much for me either. Went into Afib more on that than doing nothing. Of course we all have to find what works best for us and how much to take. On rough days or nights which are rare, with PACs, I will take multiple doses of Mag, Taurine, Hawthorne, DHA, and C. with success. The trick is to catch it before the beast takes over. Once Im in AF, its work to get out.

Yes, digestive system could be the issue due to your vagus nerve. How to fix that could be a challenge. Mine was more in my spine, neck area. Im also taking Iodine for Hypo. Next to go is all Amalgam in my head and root canal is coming out. No coincidence that I had a root canal one year, next year a thyroid issue, followed by afib. With this condition, everything is on the table. I would really look into treating your vagus nerve. Check this out. "So how does the vagus nerve get irritated in the first place? Any kind of GI distress can put pressure on the nerve and irritate it, with a hiatal hernia being a frequent culprit. Poor posture along with muscular imbalances can also cause the vagus nerve to misfire, as can excess alcohol or spicy foods.

Stress can inflame the nerve, along with fatigue and anxiety

http://drsircus.com/medicine/function-vagus-nerve

I have thought about the vagus nerve and digestive connection to this from the start since it often came right after eating.Have read about it but it doesn't sound very promising that if that is the culprit, there is anything much to stop it! Regular acupuncture? I don't know how long I would keep that up! Did try it once for about 5-6 sessions.Still got afib.So I stopped It can get very expensive! And you are never sure whether or not what you're trying is helping or not! Well for now I will just take a "maintenance" dose (50) mg flecanide once in the a.m. and make sure my HR is down with the Toprol (25) at night. See how it goes. Don't think I will take flec 2X day anymore since it probably isn't doing alot! Once is enough! Also increasing the Mag and VitC! Can't hurt! May try some more acupuncture in a while when I think I can spend the $$ Right now I am paying out of pocket for the alternative M.D. and that is enough! He prescribed the hormone cream at night. I guess it helps. At least I feel pretty good so it can't be hurting! Stomach always gets inflamed right before I go into it too I think! Keep on hunting for whatever will help this"beast" as you refer to it! I like that! Because it is! Maybe we just "feel" too much!!! No cure for that! Later!

Pat, I have to believe that Vit C and Mag are the 2 most absolutes for controlling AF.

At least for my situation, no PACs since Dec, so I stopped both for 1 week, and wham, flutter was back strong. No issues since I tried that in May. ND put me back on iodine, ALA, and adk to get thyroid under control. He told me that everyone in this country is seriously lacking Iodine and D, even in sunny areas. I have complained about a root canal as the culprit to no avail. It doesnt bother me or have pain, but it wasnt long after I had this done that Afib started. I say everything is on the table and question why my thyroid all of a sudden was impacted. I believe that is why the C is working, removing "garbage" from my system. I really do need that tooth however, so maybe building up my immune system to deal with the bacterium it produces. I don't know how anyone tolerates Flec. Thats one serious med. I'd be supplementing up seriously on that one especially muscle hydration.

Hi there, I have been reading all these posts about atrial fibrillation and was wondering what name brands you all use?

Is mag with taurine the best? I had a supplement called Heart Calm, got if off Amazon. Then I have tried different types of magnesium but getting confused. I tried the drink Calm, I tried ionic where you put in water, tastes icky!! I tried another that I take a tablespoon of, (can't remember the name brand).

So what is the best magnesium for afib.

What about Hawthorne? What name brand and how much?

Same for Taurine and Arginine and Co Q10

Thank you so much, oh and if anybody weaned them selves off Metoprolol and or Flecanide please share what worked for you.

Thanks, Teresa

Hello, Theresa, (Washington) ---

Hawthorn by VOGEL in Switzerland is quality. It works well. Instructions on label. There are other products, cheaper but watered down!

Magnesium info. On Dr. Sircus' website. I use mag. chlor. from the Dead Sea. It takes extensive reading and you can then use what resonates with you. Co Qu10 has to be with Ubiquinol. Do read online.

Namaste, Om

Hi Theresa;

I use an online company called Pure Formulas because they don't put a lot of fillers in their vitamins and supplements. I get my taurine from them and L carnitine (for heart too)... and COQ10.

I use the Magnesium citrate which can be found in most any health food store.. Its the powder you mix with water...

When I run out though sometimes I use COQ10 from Doctors Best company...

If you would like check out Dr.Frank Sinatra on utube or on the web.. He is a alternative cardiologist and has great protocols for heart stuff. He does sell supplements but I don't use them as they are pricey and yes they have fillers.

Good luck

To Teresa: I did wean off of flec and metapropolol but the afib came back more frequently after a while of being off(maybe 1 month or less) so... I told the m.d. when I called that I went off and they said to start up again, so I did.It helped a little but it doesn't help it go away for alot longer.The longest period that it stays away has been about 1 month. I still take all the supplements that I want to take but with the meds too. I am now trying it this way. Don't want t start with ablation yet as I don't think it is much more successful than the meds and I seem to tolerate these pretty well as far as I can tell! Don't want to open up another can of worms! How often do you get it and are you able to make it stop when you do? If I take more flec it usually stops in 3-4 hrs.But my day/night is still ruined! Wish I could stop it in like 1 hr! Good luck with the weaning!

To Theresa again... I am sorry in that the company I mentioned I had the wrong name. They are called Pure Encapsulations and they can be found online..

Pat, Bee, and Theresa, good to see you all here alive and well. Sorry to hear that the beast is not cooperating to your regimens.

Theresa, I weaned off Flec and Metop over 16 mos ago and dont miss them. I went out of NSR more on the meds than off. I think Calm is decent but agree that the taste is a bit tough to take daily. I think Mag Glycinate is the best for us affibers. Easy on the stomach. I would look to Jarrow for most supps like Hawthorne, COQ. Some days I take 800mg of Mag and 2000mg of Haw. Also started Niacin 500mg twice, increasing to 1000mg twice soon. For me, the vagus nerve impingement may have been cause for AF. Adjust neck daily for relief. Regards

Bee, I like the Pure also. One thing with Sinatra I dont like, he thinks that ablation is inevitable. Wrong.

Pat, ah dangit all! I'm stumped with you. Check out Dr Wolfson from Phoenix, the Paleo Cardiologist. Claims we're all poisoned and chemicals are to blame for AF. Good book and he claims to cure it. My natural Dentist went to see him and was impressed. Not sure if hes cured, but says its controlled.

As for ablation, check this out from my good friend on his blog to me. I hate seeing this, because he did beat the AF, but wow, this is scary.

"My ectopy has gotten even worse since my six month update. I'll be writing an updated post soon. I'm having about 4 PVCs per MINUTE and a couple PACs as well. The doctors aren't worried about it though because they said it doesn't become an issue until you get to around 20,000 PVCs per day. Even at 4 per minute I'm "only" having about 5,760 per day. Of course that assumes I'm having 4 every minute. I could be having more or less each minute but either way I'm well under the 20,000 threshold,

What really sucks is my PVCs are really noticeable so it's almost as bad as having afib.

Hi James.. good to see you also....and Pat too.

I didn't know Sinatra was for Afib. wow.. but he is good for some things and not good for others. I enjoy his videos on grounding..and which he calls the awesome foursome, COQ10, L Carnitine, D Ribose, Magnesium... I only do 800 mgs. of the magnesium citrate a day... I also use the magnesium spray oil .. you can find that in vitamin shoppe ...

I found this new Naturopathic doctor on utube named Dr. Robert Morsend.. Maybe he has some new info. on afib.. He has a ton of videos on many issues .. He also sells herbs and things that aren't too pricey... I am sorry James but I don't like Jarrow all that much for things but funny I do take their cordyceps herb ...

Anyway; I did forgot to add that I was taking Metropolol for high blood pressure and I weaned off but it took me a year and It was a nightmare (sorry).. I did it very very slowly .. the story is very long but my last dose was last April 2015 so be careful weaning off of that.. I am very drug resistant and allergic to drugs especially the (M) . so wean off slow and safe and under the instructions of a doctor.. I belong to a group where people give their testimonies on weaning off and t heir experiences online. I just don't know if I can mention it here. I also drank lemons and did all kinds of gall bladder and liver cleansing to get the meds out of my cells..Now I t hink the drug might have done damage but it could also be my high blood pressure ;uh!!!! Working on it all ...................anyway; also I do binaural beats, EFT and anything else I can to stay away from conventional medicine..

Yes nice seeing you Pat and James..

Taking taurine capsules worked for me. 1000 a day.

Dear all participating in this thread,

We've just moved this long and wonderful thread to a new page in the atrial fib section. Please note that according to our programmer, you will still be notified by when someone replies to the thread. However, if for some reason you are not getting notifications, the new url for your thread is:

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You will be able to find/access this new sub-page on the Atrial Fib section under the table of contents title "Atrial Fib Remedies". It will no longer be called "Yogurt".

[Update: Now that we have moved all the posts over to the new page, the link on the table of contents is not working at the moment but we'll have the programmer fix it within the next few days.]

HI U PAT, , , , , , , , , , , , alternative doctors are now learning to take 25,000 IU's of Vitamin D 3 until your blood level gets to 70 to 100, and then back off a tad. But get there first and don't take a lifetime to do that.

Look into Cayenne to keep your blood thin. You can't take enough magnesium least your bowels cause you problems, so spray down daily with MgCl and get your magnesium transdermally.

You on the right trail, just keep reading and test your blood frequently to know what to do. I am treating my cancer on my own and test my DNA monthly to make sure I'm addressing my problem. It's spooky being on your own, but I don't like the 3% cure rate of Allopathic doctors.

Wish you well ======ORH=======

I want to report that by the process of elimination there is no doubt "citrate" is what caused my PVC. I found out that citrate and citric acid are probably processed from corn because it is cheaper. Corn is just one of the vegetables has been genetically modified. Through any extraction or manufacturing process, a hidden form of MSG is produced.

PVC was first diagnosed when undergoing a colonoscopy. Liquid mag citrate is used to prep for the procedure. It was diagnosed during a second procedure years later. I had been informed about the citrate by Jack Samuels, truthinlabeling.org.

I later received a tape by Russell Blaylock, MD that magnesium citrate was better because it is more readily absorbed so I stopped taking mag tabs and purchased mag citrate tabs. I did not recall the information about what had happened to me when I took the mag citrate liquid for the prep.

After taking the citrate tabs for a very short time, I began to experience frightening palpitations and what I would describe as extreme "flutters" of my heart. I had given some mag citrate to people across the street and the man began experiencing the same problems. I reported this to Jack and he told me this was one area he and Dr. Blaylock had disagreed.

I immediately stopped taking the citrate tabs, waited a few days and resumed taking the mag tabs. I would still experience a few "flutters", whether some citrate was still in my system I don't know, but Jack further explained about the binders and fillers in various medications and supplements. He informed me about the mag powder that was available through NOW FOODS, www.nowfoods.com

I ordered the powder at the HF store here and started taking that. I've been fine ever since except if I feel a minor "rumble" I can trace it back to ingesting something with a hidden source of MSG.

I hope this information will encourage others to closely examine the binders and fillers in medications/supplements and even reheating leftovers of whole food. I learned the flowing agent in common table salt is another factor/culprit that caused me sciatica and possibly brain fog. I have been using RealSalt for decades but still get exposed to the common table salt when it is in processed foods that are sometimes difficult to avoid.

Over several decades our food supply has been changing and, with all due respect, the medical profession is unable to keep up with what has occurred. It is my opinion the genetically modified foods contribute to more ailments than is recognized.

Bee, I think you mean Sinatra is for ablation, not afib?

Pat, My wife was looking over my shoulder the other day when I was on another Afib site, and said, "You dont have that anymore , why are you on there?" I havent had any episodes yet this year, and I would say more like Afib is controlled, not gone. Im still battling feeling odd at times without going into full Afib. Won't stop looking at root canal and spinal issues affecting the vagus nerve. For now, I dont hesitate to load up on ALA, Haw, Mag and any other supp to deal with the odd times. Hope things kick in for you soon Pat!!

Hi! I have been trying bioidentical hormones and I really like how I feel but haven't changed much in my "Afib" world yet! Been about 6 months so far. But the heart m.d. also upped the flec to 2 a day which is a very low dose (50 mg each) and I'm not going up on that anymore! They seem to want me to get the ablation but I'm really scared! So I went gluten free since they say it helps but they don't know why and I started taking "cordyceps" which works well for arrythmias from what I have read! Along with all the other supplements!!! What a pain! How are you doing with yours?? Would you advocate the ablation if it were you??? Let me know! Desperate!

I had the ablation done in 2007 and it was actually no big deal for me. My recovery time was real minimal and I have had absolutely no problems since it was done.

Pat, ltns. How am I doing? Just coming off a bad weekend of flutter, PVCs, and tachy thrown in for good measure, minus the beast of afib, fortunately. I'll be coming up next week on 1 year with no Fibbing. This is twice this year of coming close to going out of NSR. What did or didn't I do for this to occur? The only thing I changed both times was stopping my high dose of Vit C for 2 weeks. So after taking everything under the sun to get the tachy under 100bpm, it just hit me sunday eve, I hadnt been taking C. Took 4 grams with Mag, and bang, tachy and flutter gone in 30 min. Which leads me to conclude, toxins perhaps from Root canal tooth, heart tooth at that!!! I was scheduled to have that out this fall, but ND talked me out of it. Im seeking out a different source for advise on this. I need that damn tooth! Missing 4 back ones and bridge on one side isnt the best. But the only true test to know for sure is extraction. Well see!

Now you. Maybe something like mine but if not a tooth what? Ablation? I'd give one more try to treating by detoxing. Wolfson maybe. https://www.wolfsonintegrativecardiology.com/

But if youve tried everything and still have afib, and its not permanent Afib, I'd look into it with a super star like Natale. I know 2 guys who did one and done and they both haven't had one episode in 5 years. One is completely med free. Most who do these admit to issues still like PVCs, but overall I'd say they are at least content with not dealing with AF. Pat, lets face it, we have maybe 10 to 15 GOOD years left, give or take 5. Do you want to live like this for those years? It is a heart wrenching decision, however, they have gotten better and IMO, a pretty safe and non intrusive procedure. Youre scared because yes as they say, surgery is surgery. However, they may find some other underlying issue or at least give you some assurance that this wasnt any lifestyle issue, and a physical one. SO, If I were you and exhausted all efforts on curing this, I would go for it. Lets face it Afib is such a detriment to our lifestyle with our activities, exercise and family relationships, there is some hope to live normal again. Like I said before, you can always continue a supplement protocol and seek alternative after. Regards.

Hi Mahrie.

Was just reading over some of your comments from before on the website! I am currently taking 0.5 Lorazepam as needed usually no more than that in a day. Do you think I would benefit from taking say1.0-1.5 or so?? I have been getting the afib regularly at least every 3 weeks usually comes at night( 3:00 a.m.?) for whatever reason lately and maybe if I took 0.5-1.0 at bedtime? I really don't want to get the ablation that they keep pushing! It really is against everything I believe in! Who knows what they can do to my heart? There is nothing wrong with it at least now! Scary! Well let me know if you can! Thanks!

True, but I keep backing away from it for some reason! Doesn't seem natural I guess. keep thinking I can fix it! I am now taking cordyceps as I heard that they are very helpful with arrythmias! Dr.Becker on "bioinnovations" on T.V. is an M>D> and cancer survivor and very knowledgeable on these things. I do trust his information.And they do not interfere at all with any of the meds he claims so that is good! Some people have had arrythmias disappear completely! # years of this is definitely wearing me down, I have to admit! How long for you? We will see! Pat

Travis,

Sorry about your increase in episodes! I, too had started with fewer and am once at least a week! I guess I may have to get the ablation too at some point! They tell me tere is another drug(Tikosyn) but I don't know after this Flecainide , that I want to take another one! I am trying the supplements that" Hwk mn" has said to try and just took flec for about 7 months but just can't take it anymore! Tough for me to take! Good luck with the ablation! Hope it helps at least!

To Hwk Mn05:

In addition to my last post, after I increased the flec like they wanted me to for 6-7 mos.now, the afib episodes never really subsided much! I'm back to every week or so! So why take it, right? I can take to convert when I get an episode! I am so frustrated! I would like to find another kind of doctor.When looking before I found one to give me bioidentical hormones! Thought that might help with the afib but not so far.Need to find a "naturopathic" m.d. Will have to see! But I just can't take their meds anymore! Too toxic for me! Help!!! Don't want to resort to the ablation, either! Tried to comply with their treatment and just didn't work for me.They tell me there is another med( Dofetilide?)but I have to go in hospital to get on it for 2 days! That's great! Don't think I like that either!

This is interesting. I once clocked my daughter's heartbeat at 210 beats per minute and the doctors didn't recommend any drugs. We got her an ablation that helped a lot but didn't stop the rapid heart beats. She then got a second ablation (both times as a teenager). She went in for a 3rd ablation and they found a tiny hole in her heart that they fixed and she never had another rapid heart beat. The first two ablations were at UCSF. She was in her late 20's/early 30's when she had the 3rd ablation (here in S, not sure if it was UCSF). She's in her mid 30's and is all good now. I hope everything works out for you.

To Susan: My daughter also has "SVT" (supraventricular tachycarida) they call it.She had it before I got the "AFIB"! They told her she has an extra circuit so to speak and that one of her parents had to have it! I thought they were crazy and then at age 60 I came down with another arrythmia(Afib)! So, hers isn't as bad and goes away in like 5 minutes when her heart goes off beating rapidly But mine lasts for 5 hrs or so! So it is much harder to tolerate!

To Bee and Hwk mn: are either of you out there? I need some advice! Very confused about the meds and supplements! R.s.v.p. when u can!

Bee, I am wondering if you have had any luck finding a good alternative Doctor (or any alternative professionals) here in New York. I would so appreciate any names you could share. Thanks. Lee

Bee, I am wondering if you have had any luck finding a good alternative Doctor (or any alternative professionals) here in New York. I would so appreciate any names you could share. Thanks. Lee

Pat and Bee, I'm here. Susan from CA makes an excellent point about an underlying issue. We all must have that, or the other 97% would have Afib. The $100,000 answer is what is that underlying problem and why dont meds work? Recently a good friend of mine went into AF at the age of 58. However, something went seriously wrong on the attempted cardio vert and they dug deeper. Only to find a giant aneurysm in her aorta. Im thinking that is one of the worst case scenarios. Bottom line is if Meds/supplements dont work, its time to dig deeper.

Hi Lee

Actually I don't really know any alternative doctors anymore but I have a friend who has cancer and she goes to one in Manhattan.. If I can find out the name and information I will gladly pass it on to you.

Bee, funny you should mention "binaural beats".My friends x-brother-in-law up in New York is a kinesiologist and a brilliant guy and she asked him for me what I could do and he thinks my "heart chakra" is blocked first of all and I need to unblock it.Suggested these frequencies! Then he said I can go on a regimen of things but need to unblock first! So I have tried a little bit of it.Don't know if I stick it out long enough, you know? I get bored with them and have trouble concentrating or meditating! I get antsy! Can't even get a pedicure without wanting to get up and run! Too long for me! Better get back to my lorazepam for the anxiety( from the AFIB) that I never had before! Also she had another theory that is really"out there" that the earth is "ascending" on its axis and that these are all sensitivities people are having to this! Crazy, right? WHO KNOWS?

Just had to take 2 "flecs" to try to get back to NSR! The supplements I took this a.m. didn't do it! It's been about 6 hrs. now and I don't like to let it go any longer! It's hard having it THIS long! HThey should work soon I hope! I still would rather take them this way than 2x a day everyday! Hwk, you say yours lasts longer? I know you don;t get it as frequently though! Maybe I should try the ablation! So confused! Wish I knew what the REAL success rate was! They tell me that there is no "national registry" for this and that they believe it is about 70% nationally! Whatever that means! I think they are being mandated by the insurance companies to come up with one so that they know whether or not they(the insurance companies) will continue to pay for this procedure or not! Guess we knew it would come down to this eventually!

Pat.

Please don't give up on the rife tones or binaural beats.. If you get bored get some adult coloring books and while you listen with your ear buds you can color.. Its very relaxing and it will also alleviate anxiety... Also have you tried EFT.. tapping. I do it everyday and it works.. check utube.

Oh; and as far as the earth axis thing don't think this is crazy but your kinsiologist is right. there are sensitives on this planet now experiencing this and guess what? I am one of them too.. its all true.. there were channellers who predicted this and said all sensitives would be going through an earthy process and it has come true.. you will have all kinds of symptoms due to energy fields. etc.etc... so don't discount what she said.. oh; and yes I do believe your heart chakra could be blocked so there are ways to unblock it... with metaphysical modalities.check utube for how to unblock chakras.

So maybe this will all help..

Thanks, Robert! It sure does seem like a lot of people are fighting this thing! I wouldn't mind taking the meds if they worked and didn't give such lousy side effects! But I find the supplements are more helpful and easier to take! And the ablation? Well, I don't know about that! If I could be sure it worked...? But for now I guess I'll just have to be my own doctor, although that's scary too! Hope you feel better after your E.R. visit! Do they have to cardiovert you? Or do you convert with the meds?

-----

Well, Bee maybe that's what all these arrythmias are about! The earth tilting and some of our electrical systems are hyper sensitive to it! I will continue with the binaural beats.Can't hurt! Hopefully it will help! You say they have helped you? I do think there may be something to the idea of "healing frequency" will keep going with it!

Where doyou get nattokinase? I heard about these in place of blood thinners! That may be what I will use too as I don't want to take blood thinner.Just take low dose aspirin! I am using the Mg spray and I think that is working instead of trying to take all that by mouth! And the Taurine seems to help me feel better! I still take a low dose of beta blocker and a low dose of flecainide every day. But I think the supplements actually make the meds work better, if that is possible! But when I try to go off one of the flec doses I started getting afib every 1-2 days! Or more, so had to go back on it! Just 50 mg every 12 hrs.So will try again after I get it under control again! Don't know if I'll be able to get off it for a while!

I was interested in the information about AFIB being a misaligned spine! Can you elaborate anymore for me? Thanks! I've been suffering with this for 3 yrs now and nothing helps! If you could, please let me know!

Pat .. I know this is old post .. just a comment... I too am battling the monster.. mine is anxiety induced .. just had a major attack .. anyway my primary doc prescribed klonopin (generic clonezpam) at nite before bed and I have been event free for 12 days. That is after having near attacks 2-3 x a day for 6 weeks after my cardioversion. Maybe not be an answer forever but for now it's working. will add more supplements .. anything to avoid the ablation. :/

Thanks Mary, I will try taking my lorazepan(similar I think) at bedtime since most of the time the episodes are waking me at night now! I will try that! Don''t know why they come at night but they do! Will let you know!

Pat, How's things in the Fib world? I saw something on another site that was interesting. Someone claimed that D-Ribose, 5 gms of powder drink per day, cured their PACs and afib. 've researched it some and will give it a try.

The Vit C is working fine for me still and has been 28 mos without meds and 22 mos afib free. I still get those little reminders like the skips and the flutter now and again, but nothing like before and easier to detect and control.

Hey you! Oh I so wish I could get 22mos without IT! No, things were good for about 4 months and then I got some sort of stomach thing from all the MG (Magnesium), I guess or just "detoxing" and it started up again few times a week! I kept asking Dr. Dean on her website why the Mg was having this effect on me as she claims this liquid Mg does not affect the bowels as others can but anyway I think I was losing all my Mg and minerals because of the way it was giving me bowel issues and I got worse in June! Sooooo, been trying to get back on track again! I take 2 tsp of liquid"ReMag"(Dr.dean website) and I'm OK but she said it can take as much as 3tsp as it did for her and I just can't get that much in me without bowel issues! I feel great with the dose I'm on and still get afibs about 1x a week mostly late at night though and lasts much shorter time, about 2-3 hrs and I dont take any meds at all anymore even when I get it and I think I am actually better without them! I take Taurine, "Heart Calm" and Mg. Along with the other familiar supplements( Vitc1000 E, Fish oil, D, whatever) so I don't get it! I am trying 1000 mg Taurine twice a day for awhile. What do you think? I was hoping I would find you on here as you always seemed so knowledgeable with all of this! I haven't gone back to Cardiologist because they are not going to like me off all meds but I feel better w/out them and they don't help! If they did, I would take them! Think I may try getting my spine aligned by chiro too! And oh, hell why not try(ribose is it?) that too? Let me know! At least I am getting much more comfortable with all of this and not as "scared" as I used to be! When I get it at night I get p and go down and sit in my recliner for about 2 hrs. my husband thinks I'm crazy! He comes down and shakes his head like "why don't you do something about this" Like "ablation" I guess! No thanks! Once again, like the meds, it doesn't always work and why risk the side effects! That is just how I feel! Like it won't work! So I can tolerate it for 2hrs once a week at night I guess! Maybe lorazepan at night?

Thanks Henry, Trugi and Hwk! Nice to know I'm not the only one dealing with this problem taking Mg! I will try the high doses of VitC too! You have a point there withall the "liquid Remag" I may be absorbing it too fast! Will start trying to "tweak" my intake! I know it really has helped because after starting it last November, I noticed I felt so much better and had more energy! When they put me on those meds I immediately started feeling awful! Felt like I was much older than my age! And I was always a "younger" version of my age! This wasn't me! I knew I could not live this way! Since I have been on these supplements, I feel great! If I could just get to the point where I didn't get it as often as at least once a week sometimes 2x week, I think I would be able to live with it peacefully! Once a month wouldn't be so bad! But twice a week is too much! Although only lasts for 2-3 hrs as opposed to 6-7 as it did before the Mg & Taurine! I do use the spray Mg too! Only 4-5 sprays maybe once or twice day! Will keep in touch! Blessings to all of you! I know we can all do this! You all give me so much more strength and willpower to deal with this! My gratitude to all! Its going to workout OK! Pat

Pat, I'm with you on the younger version part, this makes us feel like were ready for the home. Not that there is a magic bullet, but possibly a good ammo supply. Doctors like to make us believe they are the only chance we have to beat afib. I'm no different than any other person with AF, I just keep trying different things and some have worked. Its impossible to know what is going on in everyone's system or lifestyle, so what works for one may not work for the other. Potassium was thought to be a no no for us and too much is harmful for our hearts, but recently I'm seeing some posts that just as with Mag, we need more usually. Balanced with Mag of course.

As you said, will keep hunting for what works/doesn't work for me! That is all we can do! The medical community doesn't have any good answers for us, that's for sure! I went into afib a little earlier and took a metatropol to see if it would help shorten it along with all my other supplements, including Taurine and Hawthorn and ...nothing! Doesn't do anything! Don't even know whyI took it! Every once in a while I try their meds but always the same! Could take Flec but that makes me dizzy and feel really bad and also doesnt work so I won't! Just "ride it out"It will go away eventually! Will just keep on going today with my daily routine! Haven't bought the Ribose yet! Soon I will try it though! Don't know whether to keep my appt with cardio at end of November or not! Have to think about it! We are driving to Florida for a wedding next week and will stay with a friend a few nights! Hope it all works I'm not letting this s--t stop me from doing what I want to do anymore! On with my life! Afib or no Afib! Just pisses me off that I can't drink any alcohol withit! But if I'm already in it and I go somewhere I will! Can't be any worse! Will let you know! You sound like you're doing great with yours! Hope I can get there!!! Hanging in! Pat

Hey, Bee! So glad to hear youre doing better! I was wondering! And I will look him up on youtube! I am doing some new supplements and hoping that something will slow down or eradicate my Afib soon! I feel 100x better than I did 4 yrs ago! But still battling the "beast"! I know I'm on the right track because I feel too good, not to be! Just haven't hit on the right thing yet! But thank God for my good health, otherwise! And I know there is something I'm missing or deficient in! The Mg helped alot but got bowel issues when trying to increase dose to "therapeutic! I did start "nattokinase" and also take VitE to keep blood thin! Tables will turn soon! Off all meds! And don't intend to go back on them so I don't know whether to go back to cardiologist or not! Just keep up with my "primary" Dr.I think thats enough! He gets it! He said he would never take the antiarrythmic drugs or the blood thinners! How's that for an honest dr.? Stay well Keep in touch!

HI U PAT,,,,,,,,, you on the right trail. There is a magnesium that you can take that will not mess up your bowels. It is magnesium L theronate and is a patent by MIT. We take it and it does not give us the green apple trots.

Think I've isolated my A Fib to sleep apnea and will see a specialist soon. When I wake and my blood oxygen level is 93 then I know what caused my heart racing. No oxygen... because I stopped breathing. It's a sheet + 2 = 8 thing.

========ORH=======

Hey Bee, good to hear from you and the good news. Very interesting on the lymphatic system. Our bodies can heal us if we give them the necessary fuel and nutrition. Glad its working. I'm somewhat opposite on veggies myself hardly eating raw as I don't think our stomachs were made for uncooked food, but the angle of removing toxins could have some truth to it. I'll check that site out.

Robert, I find that I'm different than most folks concerning Mag. I know when I'm under stress or feeling odd, Mag is low. It has no effect whatsoever immediately on my bowels taking large amounts. Possibly the next day, but its one supplement that makes a noticeable difference with afib.

Sleep apnea is a real condition that may effect our afib. However, it won't always control it, just remove another trigger. I am however in complete disagreement with the allopathic treatment of symptoms only. It has been related to serious lack of oxygen in your blood and forcing air into your lungs will not address the real issue. If your test is positive I would seek out some natural cures. Just IMHO.

KT, great point. Absorption is always the key along with increasing MGs bio availability. That's why I usually turn my wife's salad away and request it to be cooked, receiving a stern look.

The debate about raw vs. cooked foods will probably never be completely settled. But the fact is that some nutrients, magnesium included, are released from the food matrix through the process of cooking (particularly quick, gentle cooking such as sautéing or steaming). Another benefit of cooking is that it lessens the amount of oxalic acid in foods like spinach. Oxalic acid can hinder magnesium absorption, and research shows that cooked spinach has a higher magnesium absorption rate than raw. http://saveourbones.com/what-you-should-and-shouldnt-do-to-get-maximum-magnesium-bioavailability/#

My husband has found out at a routine Dr. change that he has a fib. He could not have an echo cardiogram because his heart rate was over 154 which they said would not allow the cardiagram to be done. The week before his rate was 94. He feels fine right now. Yesterday thay gave him an ekg. Which showed his heart rate was all over the place, Still feels fine. No shortness of breath nothing. In June he was having some dizziness which he mentioned to the doctor then and they didn't seem to find a thing wrong. They have him on mycardis starting today and all kinds of other medications. He has high blood pressure and diabetes which makes everything worse of course. More worried about a stroke. He has to be hooked up to a machine every time he goes in the doctor's office to see he is in a fib. No one here seems to have to do this. It is expensive and who wants to do this at least once a week. Why does he have no symptoms now?? I hate that they already are starting the dangerous meds which may be as bad as the illness. Everyone here seems to know they are in a fib so why doesn't he know it? Ideas appreciated.

My doctor does an EKG every time I go to check for AFIB! I think most do! I usually know if I'm in it because I can feel it but apparently everyone with AFIB doesn't feel it.Which is why so many people are undiagnosed! Sometimes I wish I was like that and didn't feel it! It isn'tt a nice feeling and goes on for hours usually! Very disrupting! Lately mine comes only at night and I don't know why so I just get up out of bed and go sit in a chair since I feel better upright, not lying down and then try to take different pills/supplements to get it to calm down which as I said takes few hours.Then I try to go back to bed and sleep through it if it is still going! Sleep deprivation seems to make me feel worse next day and meds make me feel worse too! I really don't like the idea of cardiac ablation but I have been fighting this for 4 years now and it gets tiring! Problem is, ablation doesnt work always! So then what do you do? And could ablation make you worse? Don't know!

@Pat: Any reason why your doctor doesn't suggest a cardioversion (CV)? Read my story above yours :-)

Yes, Wendy! The thing is, CV can fix it for a time but, like ablation there is no guarantee that it won't come back and most of the time I have seen them do CV on patients that won't convert on their own or with meds as a last resort to get the heart back to normal rhythm.

Pat, of course they love good news, but only when its from using their dangerous protocol. I'm betting you can beat these short ones treating them like PVCs at some point. The only precaution I would suggest is making sure your INR levels are good due to stroke risk by not being in nsr all the time. I'm not sure how you would go about doing this or what you can take however.

Doctor I found recently is N.D. and put me on something called "Hemoguard" It works as blood thinner. From what I can find on internet it is Ginkoba Biloba I think.He says its blood thinner. Is that what you mean? I was never planning to take pharmaceutical blood thinners.Too many bad side effects.At least that is how I feel now about it. I also went back before I saw cardio docs to 12.5mg Toprol a day because I knew they would ask.So I will take small amount and stick with my ND for supplements.He also did some chiro on my T2 which he said was bothering me because of Afib or could cause Afib! All nerves from this muscle lead to heart he said! Makes sense to me! Im only out f NSR about 1-2 week for 2-3 hrs each time. So youre right, I think I'm having more PVC's now than before for whatever reason I don't know.But I told them"I'm managing(the beast)! At least for now! Last yr around January I went for almost a few months with hardly anyafibs! Trying to get back to that! Havent tried d-ribose yet.Taking ones the ND/chiro gave me for awhile.We'll see! Will keep u posted!

Hey Pat, that is a strange name for a supplement, the same as the vial they draw blood into?

Still battling I see. I'd be a bit leery of natural thinners. I'm not saying they don't work, but I would want to see some hard evidence with some concrete serum testing. If you are in constant afib, at your age, your stroke risk is 5 times higher. Just saying.

Regarding your statement about unproven blood thinners, until double blind studies prove they are, please be aware that not all double blind studies are to be believed either. Read former editor-in-chief of The New England Journal of Medicine Marcia Angell 's book The Truth about drug companies: How they deceive us and what to do about it. Drug companies are not here for charity purposes. They want to maximize profits and to hell with the health of people.

Tina, absolutely correct on drug companies. If it was based all on success they would be out of business. 100,000 a year killed due to prescription drugs overdose. Thats whats documented. What doesnt get in the stat are vaccines also, like the flu shot listing death as Pneumonia or respiratory failure.

I am however ok with using meds in the short term along with replacement therapy, certain anti boitics and anyone that is in need due to neglecting their health thru a bad diet/lifestyle. Perhaps their only chance, tho not a great one.

That is very true, Tina! And as far as natural blood thinners, the difference is a milder way of thinning and not as potent and dangerous as Warfarin, etc! So who is to say that you necessarily need such a "powerful"effect? I choose to think a milder blood thinning is the way to go for men. And I use my intuition to decide these things! We all have it and that's why God gave it to us! You need to use your own intuitive abilities sometimes! Most every med I've taken so far from traditional doctors has been 'too strong and potent" for me! Which is why I don't take them anymore! There are other ways to go. And in Europe, supplements are very widely studied and used as first defense before meds! I would like to see that happen in this country someday too! Keep your "third eye" open!

Pat, that is all well and good on using what is natural. I am in the same camp. However, I am also an advocate for testing to verify that even supplements are doing what they are intended to do. I was on one supplement for over a year for a different condition. I got worse. I have no issue taking meds with little side effects to treat certain conditions when natural is either not available or ineffective. If my ND comes up with one that addresses it naturally, Im all in.

I did warfarin for a time with little issues, tho still had some side effects. What concerns me is the long term danger as much as the HASBLEDS stats. I checked into that supplement and it is the same name as the vial they collect blood in? Any other name for it?

No Hwk.it says "Hemo Guard Supreme(dietary supplement).I had actually bought natto and didn't know how much to take as you say to achieve the right results! So I was lucky to find an ND DC holistic doctor with great reviews not too far away from my home! I like to believe it was no "coincidence" as I have been looking for some time! Anyway I asked about Natto and he said he likes it too.but had a mentor that thinks this his way better! So I am taking this instead. And for right now 1 capsule 3x day.I have been treating myself for long time but wanted a professional to tell me about this.I also take VitE.Fish oil etc so I am satisfied and kind of believe that I was probably OK even without those. My dad had afib but nonsymptomatic and didn't die till age 85.I'm sure he probably had it for many years before that! And everybody w Afib doesn't stroke out like they would have us believe! Call me crazy, but I'm not buying that! The key is taking care of yourself in every circumstance! Many people abuse their bodies for long time and then well what do you expect? Anyway I'm hoping to get rid of this for good! I know that there has been much information suppressed from us for decades and that is all going to change soon! I get some "inside info"!

Have a great holiday!

just when I thought I was done with meds, I am back on fleccainide as PIP Beta blockers not doing it Supplements not doing it couldn't stand it anymore!

Pat, sorry to hear that. As for the Hemogaurd, I think I hear that bird again, if you listen closely you can hear it....Quack Quack. There is nothing in that pill that will safely prevent your blood from clotting should you have a long episode and blood pools in the bottom of your heart. Magnesium which is much cheaper, will do about the same as those ingredients. Flec is a good PIP Ive used before in 45 min I converted. Havent used in over 2 years since.

The one thing I am still not hearing from you is, what are your test results concerning INR etc? We need to hold these supplement makers accountable just as much as Pharma.

I get what youre saying, Hwk! I will ask him about "INR" to check results! I had not taken Flec for about ayear and just too other day 100mg to get back in NSR! I think I'm just so sick of it that sometimes I feel like I could take every pill in my medicine cabinet /supplements to see if something stops it! Crazy, I know! Comes too often! But I will settle down after I get pissed off at it again and go into my "accepting" mode! Even though life sucks withAfib! I'll go back to "managing the beast"! As I told cardio doctors when I was there! Maybe I will end up on blood thinner after all! Trying not to though! Don't trust them! Keep hoping I'll find the "cure" soon! Could be the electronics surge that we've been in for awhile! And I'm sensitive to all the "waves"! Makes sense to me! Whacking out my electrical system! I will check back after my next visit! Trying to hold off because it is all "out of pocket" and I need to space the visits out appropriately for my pocketbook you know? Maybe 2017 will be the year of the "cure"! Have a happy one!

Oh forgot to ask about Magnesium! I do take Magnesium! Do you think that is as good as blood thinner? I also take Vitamin E and Fish oil which I hear are blood thinning also! Let me know about Mg! Didn't realize that! That is great! And youre right! Much cheaper.I take liquid Mg so I absorb it well! And there is some in my 'HeartCalm" supplement that I take too! Probably get 600-700 a day I guess!

And Hemo Guard Supreme is there, if you google it!

Yes, Henry I know what the game is with the doctors! Sounds like you've had your fill! You go to ER it sounds like, more often! Is that because they have to cardiovert you? I only went the first time before diagnosis.But I almost always convert pretty quickly with Fleccainide.I started using it to convert again lately.Wasn't for awhile and was taking 3-4 hrs with just rate controlmeds.Its coming more often (2-3 x week) and thats too long and just wearing me out! And to "Kt" I appreciated your point of view on blood thinners! I am nowre-thinking all of that thanks to all of you! I don't "have" to take them till next year according to docs.Just thinking ahead! Hwk, why did you not stay on Warfarin as you said you took for short time? I am afraid of these antiarrythmic drugs but seems to be the one that works for me.Although when I took it everyday in the past, I still got Afib and when it started coming more frequently, I stopped taking it.Didn't see the point! Only had to take more when I went into Afib.Now I just take 100 mgs. when I get Afib.What is "Cartia" Henry?I am looking for an "integrative" cardiologist/doctor but can't find one around here! You know, Afib has been around for a long time before they made it a "diagnosis" and 40 years ago people had it and did not all have strokes! They did not all take blood thinners! That was decided, once again, by Big Pharma! So I was hoping to not take them till I get much older! Has any of you thought about ablation? I am not too keen on that either but never say never! I still take a low dose aspirin 3-4 times a week and sometimes when I get it, I go get a regular(325mg) strength and take it.Just makes me feel better to know I took it.Even though they say aspirin doesn't work for us.I'm not so sure!

Pat, I was put on Warfarin as a precaution 7 years ago, after 2 episodes in 2 months. However if a TEE and a CV after a 14 straight day episode showed no pooling or clotting of blood, I figured it was useless for my situation. I never went back on it even when they put me on rate and rhythm control meds a few years later.

If you have persistent afib, ablation is less likely to work. Also, why the rhythm control black box warning med? Why not just control the rate with less risky meds? Aspirin is worthless and also can cause some serious issue including cancer. If it is now off the list as a med that works for our hearts, why take it? Magnesium will most likely do the same for you without any risk. I woke up with a headache Sunday and took Mag throughout the day, finally worked that evening. We all want the quick fix with Aleve or Advil but those two have some ties to afib also.

Hope you get some relief, Robert Henry! Sounds like alot of crap! Yes, Hwk, Iam over my "maybe I should get ablation "depression syndrome! I usually come to my senses eventually! Justa little "thing I go through once in a while when I think there is some medical treatment out there that will help me! Silly me! You are right, once you get it they put you on all the meds that I won't take for them now! Then you're at their mercy! I am "managing the beast" as I told them on my last visit! They did not like that! Wanted to know why I wasn't "doing something"? And I only take meds as you do, when I need them for an "Afib episode" No sense in taking them everyday because I still get episodes and figure I'll be taking enough of them doing it this way! I am taking liquid Mg everyday! I also take Taurine and other supplements too! Could very well be a "gut" issue as I have a friend nearby that is a doctor at the Wistar Institute at Penn and that is what she says! She also has Afib but her "gut" issues are much bigger! She claims that any issues bring it on! Has anyone heard of the "healing frequencies"? Some people say they work but I am not consistent with them>I get bored with them! I guess I should be thankful that the meds help to shorten the episodes! As far as the INR you can't measure that just using herbs as blood thinners.They won't change the INR.Only Warfarin will do that! Not even the newer blood thinners will change INR! You can't check on the dosage with those using INR! I don't think I'm going down that road for now! Will just take the herbal one that N.D. gave me or Nattokinase.Meds I take when I get it are enough for now! I really think the world is going to be in for some changes very soon and people are going to find out all the information and technology that was suppressed from us for a long time! There are "healing chambers" out there I've been told! Not that we have access to them.But the chemo for the cancer has been a scam and the new theory of "maintenance chemo" when you are in remission is really a joke! That is just going to kill you! Sad! All in the name of money! No thanks! Just remembered you were going to try D-Ribose? Any luck? I feel like I can't take anything else! Take too much s--t already, my husband says! How much can a person take in 1 day? Gets crazy! And expensive! Henry needs Mg I think! Thing that has helped me feel best is Mg and Taurine! And I hear people complain about no energy from Afib on some websites! I have more energy than I can handle! I think its from supplements! No other symptoms, just when the Afib comes on! Otherwise feel good most all the time! See, I do need to be thankful! But some people don't take any supplements and don't want to! I will keep going with them!

Hey, I didn't know about the Advil and Afib ties! But I did have to go back to 12.5mg of Toprol as my Afib has been out of control and my daughter thought I shouldtry going back on it again.So... I'll try a little along with all my supplements and the weird thing is I went to the doctor with my husband this week and HE has Afib! He just turned 65! Very strange! He has to see cardiologist next month! He was feeling "fatigued and didn't know what was wrong! Thought maybe he needed B12 or had iron deficiency! Dr. did EKG and found it! So now we both have it! He doesn't feel his, though.Just feels the symptoms! I don't get this! What are the chances of that???

Pat, me either, but more the acetaminophen I believe. It's listed as provoking arrhythmias in users, you just won't hear it from doctors.

So, update. I went 2 yrs 1 month and about a week with no episodes until this week. Not horrible. HR never got above 95 and I really hardly knew I was in it. I did some massive dose of supplements with Apple Cider Vinegar with bsm. Unfortunately, I just couldn't stand stopping every 15 min for a bathroom as I was on the road that day working. After 10 hours, I dropped 200mg of flec and 75 min later back to NSR. The flec was almost 3 yrs old, so I had some doubts it was potent enough. So weird to wait and then have it hit you. I was sitting in my car and all of a sudden felt lightheaded, heart paused, a few deep breaths, and out of fib. Odd that I was dealing with PACs/strong HR since Thanksgiving thru Dec. Now, those are gone along with strong HR. Start the timer again.

Gosh Pat if I were you, I'd be looking at the least intrusive ablation. They are doing them now with little radiation. Might be just a minor adjustment. My dentist has silent AF. I think that is more dangerous. Those types are usually on thinners and rate control for life.

Yes, I would always be looking at "least intrusive" but I'm still not sold or feeling it yet! If it keeps up as often as it is it may not take me long, though! Sorry you're back to square one with your "counting" again! I always get back there for some reason or another! I am seeing holistic N.D. now and it has gotten to be not as strong or debilitating as it used to be now! So sometimes I "carry on"! Not always though! Will see cardiologist with my husband for his diagnosis and see what he says! Same old same old I'm sure! Maybe it's something in our house that caused us both toget it! Radon? Who knows? Weird! Could just be the toxins we'vw been exposed to all these years I guess! Also doing the "Detox frequencies"!

Yes, James, I think I did have some adrenal fatigue but it has gradually gotten better since I was diagnosed Afib and began researching and adding different supplements to my diet. But my Afib got worse! Well not really worse, in some ways better! It doesn't last for as many hours as it did before but episodes are more often.Maybe every other day now! Sometimes everyday! So I can't figure it out! They are really pushing ablation but I'm not sold on that yet! Another cardiologist that I went to ordered some kind of autonomous nervous system function test It seemed like a stupid test but he said that I have disorder which is probably why I can't stand taking the meds since my blood pressure keeps dropping when I sit and then stand or lie down and then stand! Sounds like dehydration to me! He did say I have to drink ALOT of water! I don't drink enough, I know.Never liked to drink much! He is putting me on a different beta blocker "Carvidolol" I think its called and maybe I'll try that although I doubt it will prevent Afib! Beta blockers don't! Even though they tryto tell you they do All they do is lower your heart rate! But irregular beats still persist! Thanks for the tips and appreciate any you can give!

Pat, I'm catching up with you. Nothing for 2 years and then wham, 4 in Feb and 4 this month so far. It's taking longer for the flec to convert me back, around 5 hours avg. I did start the adrenal protocol and stopped the T, maybe should have weaned off the T until the DHEA and Cortisol control kicked in. ND says with certainty its my adrenals causing afib. Ablations still sound scary and I don't buy the success rates, fuzzy math if you ask me. To suggest that you will most likely need 1 or 2 more doesnt sound all that successful to me. As long as we both convert and can live our lives without dangerous thinners, I cant see jumping into that fix. Odd that my HR is very low with afib now, around 85 most of the time without Metoprolol. I have a low but irregular HR. How can I be at a risk for stroke if the HR isnt pumping to clot any faster than some normal people?

HWKMNO5,,,,,,,,,, are you saying that a heart rate of 85 is AFIB or 85 above your normal?

===ORH===

Robert, No, my normal HR is 60. In afib, I don't go above 85. I have a low, but irregular HR.

HWKMNO5,,,,,,,,,, partner, 85 is an outstanding heart beat for me and millions of others. You may have an irregular heat beat but I don't think you have A Fib. Try 180 or 200, and then call it A-Fib.

=====ORH======

Oh, it's afib alright. Tachycardia may provoke afib more, but irregular is still afib. If my normal HR is 60 and it increases to 85 to 95 and yours starts at 85 and increases over 100, but are irregular, its the same as yours not increasing to 300. All degrees I think. Now my stroke risk could be less due to a lower rate.

Hwk, my heartrate is around 65 normally and probably only goes to 80-90 too! So does that mean my clot risk is less too? I don't understand this! And the doctors won't tell you that!

Pat, theres no doubt in my mind that afibs root cause is the most grossly misdiagnosed condition. I dont want to speak too soon, but after 3 years with one ND who never bothered to check my cortisol levels and adrenals, I feel as tho I never had afib the last couple of months. This new ND was 2 years out of college and most likely up to date on the latest. So obviously, the EP and Cardio lied to me or were ignorant when they told me the scarring on my left atrium was the cause. Of course there is no way of knowing if you have scarring unless you have an ablation, which causes more scarring!!!

What are Adrenal lifters? what kind?

Hey I'm wondering if anyone out there takes Nattokinase for blood thinning purposes? I am and just wanted to hear some thoughts on this All that I have read makes me think it is a positive choice since I don't want to take the pharmaceuticals! Not had much luck with anything they have given me for Afib an antibiotics are the only ones that have ever worked for me! And actually wondering now if they really did work or most likely my body healed itself in most cases! Appreciate any feedback!

Hey Pat, hows the Natto working out? Just curious how one knows it in fact is working?

Hi Hawk! You're right! How do I know Nattokinase is thinning my blood? Lots of trust and a holistic dr that went along! I also take Gingko and fish oil and VitE which are all excellent blood thinners too! I guess I just believe in them and no faith in Big Pharma meds! Especially blood thinners! I'll be fine I know! Still get the afib episodes 1-2x week though! Just take beta blocker when I get one! And wait it out! My husband is doing the traditional med route Heis doing better than me! But he never really felt his heart rate just knew he didnt feel good! He is on 200 metatoprolol and 120 Cardizem And feels pretty good! I think he needed both beta blocker & calcium channel blocker to get it stopped! We'll see Go back to dr later this month! Oh and takes Xarelto of course! They made him take it! I don't have a dr anymore because I wouldn't take it! They don't want you if you don't comply! I'll just use my primary Dr.Don't need them and their drugs and tests and procedures! Thx anyway!

Hey, Hawk!

My primary dr who's a little off the cuff even agreed to your statement about the blood thinners! He said he wouldn't take them! Glad you are doing better! Now do you need Cortisol? Is that what he said? I had too much cortisol when first diagnosed! Maybe the cortisol is a factor! Cont know what mine is now! I'm sure it went down though because when it was high I was very anxious and jittery! Not any more and Mg has taken care of that! I'm sure I was deficient! I think it was” Henri” on this website that said he does cayenne pepper drops so I got some and as soon as my heart starts a little off beat I take! They really do stop it! Amazing Better than Toprol sometimes! I'm gonna stick w them! Tried the spice in jar years ago but did nothing! I haven't seen any blogs from him on here If you do please let him know! You stick to your own treatments! They work better than any of doctors! I swear that's why my husband work for him because he really “ believes in the meds” I don't since they never work for me! But he can have them because I told him in the long run they're not good for him and will cause more problems! He knows For now it's all good!

Having a recent diagnoses of afib is all the more concerning because of the prescribed drug eliquis which will hopefully prevent a possible stroke but disappointingly not stop the afib. I am very encouraged by the conversations that offers ways to help stop the afib. I will be trying the magnesium and hawtorne as well as some cayenne extract along with a continued somewhat vegan diet which has delightfully brought about some weight loss.

Has anyone taken the eliquis drug? I am concerned about side effects and any missed doses could cause the stroke it is suppose to prevent

Hey Hwk, how much Hawthorn did u take when afib episode? Did u say 1000 mg I think? I think this toprol makes it worse believe it or not! I'm going back to taking H. When I get! And Taurine! And maybe carnitine and Mg They work better I just think I didn't take “enough” H. It is calmer with those than with beta blockers I don't know why I started back with it! Guess I thought it would take care of it but of course it doesn't! Ugh! And I get an episode most everyday too! Sometimes keeps me up all night! Hard to ignore and sleep through. Maybe should try the adrenal approach too. Sounded logical to me when I started with all this! Or thyroid! Subclinical because myTSH etc were in range supposedly! Still suspicious though.

Hey Hawk! I guess I may have to bite the bull it & go back to doctors again! Maybe the A word I don't want to hear is what I'll hear! Haven't seen a doctor for about 18 mos now but maybe should make an appt! Give it another shot but I really dont want to take thosemeds! They don't help me and I feel awful on them! I'll see! Thought maybe it would just go away on its own eventually! So annoying! Or they'll want me to take that other medicine you have to be admitted to hospital to go on! I think there are people that have it daily even when they are on the meds! Don't know that it necessarily enlarges the atrium in everyone! I don't have it 24-7 and some people do! I think I've had a lot of protection from all the good supplements I've been taking too! Not so sure about that theory! Will let you know!