Effective Natural Remedies for Chalazion

| Modified on Aug 05, 2021

Castor Oil
Posted by Kim (New South Wales) on 04/12/2021
5 out of 5 stars

My husband had a decade old chalazion on his upper eyelid that had hardened without redness despite trying everything natural under the sun when it first appeared and at intervals subsequently. At one point of sustained natural remedies, the lump appeared to develop a slight split as if divided into two adjacent smaller lumps. Another time along the way, I applied raw local honey along his lashline and felt guilty as he developed a small chalazion on his lower lid just below the upper lump. It wasn't a stye as it never went away. Finally, last year, he was fed up and ready to seek surgery but came across an article in www.eyeworld.org connecting Dermodex mites (present in all people) to chalazions so we decided to give one last-ditch treatment.

I mixed castor oil (the old-fashioned type in a glass bottle from the Indian store that has been used safely in eyes for centuries that I happened to have) with pure teatree oil in a dropper bottle and after his morning shower, I applied 2 drops to his clean knuckles which he held together for me and he then touched his knuckles together to disperse before swiping one knuckle across each respective lashline of both his closed eyes to avoid cross contamination as the chalazion was only on his left eye. He also used his knuckles to massage the mixture into his lashlines.

At night before bed, he used Opti-Soothe mask (from pharmacy) for two consecutive 20mins after heating 20secs in the microwave following by the same oil-on-knuckle treatment. As stated in the article, after 12 weeks the chalazion disappeared and has not returned after four months.

Wish we had known this remedy before as over the decade, we wasted time and money on doctors every time it became embarrassingly conspicuous after other natural treatments just to be prescribed eyedrops that made no difference and referral to opthalmologist who recommended best to leave it alone as it may recur after surgery which is apparently very painful.

Apple Cider Vinegar
Posted by Dbug (Berkeley, Ca) on 08/05/2015
5 out of 5 stars

I have struggled with Styes and Chalazions on and off for about 9 years. Since the first one, they've occurred about a dozen times. Not bad, you might think, but half of them lasted longer than a month, and 2 of them lasted nearly a year. The last big one I needed surgery to get rid of it, and even after that was done... it still took months for it to finally go away.

So, you know my history. And during those trials, I tried a LOT. Epsom salt. Warm compresses. Hot compresses. Antibiotics. Colloidal silver. Bentonite clay. Cleanses. Homeopathics. Crazy tinctures. Oh, man, you name it, I tried it. I got so frustrated with the ol' "Quasimodo Eye" that I once tried to "pop" the Chalazion. WARNING: DO NOT EVER DO THIS! Take it from an idiot who got impatient and did that. There is nothing to drain. Chalazions don't work like that. I did that, and it went from awful to out-of-this-world bad. Like, a cross between a horror film and a comedy because it was so unbelievable. (That's when the doctor ordered the surgery.)

So. Here I am. It's been about 3.5 years since that awful occurrence and I live in fear of it happening again. I am careful and wash my eyelids like I'm OCD. And that helps. But, they STILL happen.

Yada yada yada. So 3 weeks ago, I woke up to the familiar horror of a sty. Not the worst I've seen, but oh sweet clowns of destiny, I felt a wave of panic knowing how these things can make a sudden turn for the worst.

Desperate, I spent hours online looking for more possible cures. I found the Apple Cider Vinegar cure here at Earth Clinic. And I didn't have anything to loose, so I tried it.

And this WORKED. Here's what I'd do:

1. It was always worst in the morning. So I'd take a hot shower, and run that hot water over my eye until the hot water tank ran out. Other times in the day, I'd do a hot compress. Always with hot water, as the moisture seems to help in a way that a dry compress doesn't.

2. Next, I'd soak a cotton make-up pad thingy... they're like a cotton ball that has been run over by a steamroller... I'd dab or soak it in ACV. Then I'd close my "Quasimodo Eye" (Lefty) and just land that right on top of my eyelid, holding the thing in place for about 2-5 minutes.

3. I'd repeat those basic steps about 3-6 times a day. Before each application of the ACV, I'd wash my eyelids with just a little bit of soap. But I wouldn't wash them after the ACV application.

Every time I'd do this treatment, within about an hour or two the swelling went down to almost nothing. It came and went like this for a few days. After the third day, my eye suddenly started... well... it's like a lot of mucus started to come out of my eye. Like, crazy amounts. After that, the swelling was almost un-noticeable. And I kept doing the treatments for another 4 or 5 days.

(After a few days, the ACV seemed to burn a bit more... but no harm seemed to come from this.) It was probably 8 or 9 days when I just stopped using the ACV. 2 weeks later, there is the tiniest remnant of it, but only I can tell, and I will probably start a second round of treatments to vanquish whatever remains. But lemme just say that nothing I have tried thus far has gotten me results ANYTHING CLOSE to what ACV has done.

I know how awful these buggers can be, and I truly hope you are reading this post at some point in the future where a permanent, lasting cure has finally eliminated chalazions and styes from humanity's troubled past. BUT, if that ain't the case, and you gots one... fer the love of all that is good and tasty, try this!

Castor Oil
Posted by Franky (Beirut, Lebanon) on 02/28/2013
5 out of 5 stars

Castor oil really works for a chalazion. It's better than any treatment. Just keep applying it topically on the bump everyday. It can take from 2 weeks to 6 months depending on your immunity. But it will surely go. Take 2 day breaks when using for more than 2 months. You can help your immunity by staying off wheat sugar and junk or fried food. Castor oil really really works. Please help spread the word to the people here because I dont have much time.

Apple Cider Vinegar
Posted by Jessica (Oldsmar) on 10/05/2015
5 out of 5 stars

Apple cider vinegar works!! My five year old son has been dealing with a chalazion for over a year with no help from compresses or medicine. We started applying a sterile gauze pad dunked into a 1/2 Apple Cider Vinegar (with the mother) and 1/2 hot water mix twice a day and changes were instant! It has been about three weeks now and every day it gets a little flatter and less swollen. Thank you to everyone who posted their success stories. Our little guy has finally gotten some relief! :)

Coconut Oil
Posted by Alison (Naples, Fl) on 08/29/2015
5 out of 5 stars

Before I went to bed, I put coconut oil(virgin, cold pressed, found in most grocery stores) on a piece of gauze bandage, then used medical tape to secure it to my eye. I also taped a cotton ball over the gauze bandage, so it would push the bandage into my eye socket so the coconut oil was kept against my eye. In the morning I could see drainage on the gauze. I repeated this for 2 nights and my chalazion was gone.

I have had chalazions many times. They usually take weeks or months to heal. I have had one surgically removed.

I will never do hot compresses again, the coconut oil is the answer.

I hope this helps many people avoid the embarrassment of chalazions.

Castor Oil
Posted by Sabah (Palestine ) on 02/15/2016
5 out of 5 stars

I tried literally every remedy out there. I had three eye surgeries and they kept coming. Had to dig for the cause since I follow a very careful regimen of eye care, hygiene and the rest of it. Finally I was advised it's hormonal change of the body and there's no solution. I started trying natural remedies one by one to avoid the risk and the cost of further surgeries on the go. Nothing worked and just one day before I my surgery was scheduled I thought the only thing I didn't try is castor oil. I never thought it'd work but then I thought it'd do no harm to try and it worked like a charm! . After cleaning eyes I applied a very small amount topically on the chalazion, three times on that day and by next day the cyst appeared from the outside of the lid and started drying out and peeling off like a pimple. It has always been there right in front of my eyes. Not the baby shampoo, warm compresses, eye washes, drops, antibiotics, eggs, coconut oil, breast milk, apple cider vinegar, frankincense oil, tea/rice bags, nothing worked despite the trouble I went through to get them. Castor oil is a miracle remedy! . In one week of three topical applications (one before bedtime), my eyes looked and felt perfect. Thank God! , and thanks to the guy from Lebanon. It was your tip I followed.


Castor Oil
Posted by Anon (Usa) on 06/09/2018
5 out of 5 stars

Castor oil has healed the chalazion on my eyelid. Cheap big box store brand of castor oil. Nothing special. Labled for internal use. Thank you Earthclinic!

Castor Oil
Posted by Jared (Portland, Oregon) on 03/04/2016
5 out of 5 stars

Had one of these nasty things (chalazion) appear on the inside of my lower left eyelid. I am a Earth Clinic regular so this was the first place I came after the baby shampoo had zero effect.

Castor Oil. started applying and also purchased a dry eye compress off of Amazon. Benefit was immediate. Size reduced drastically after the first heat treatment. Keep applying castor oil directly to the bump on the inside of the eyelid and use heat regularly. After 2 days, bump is almost gone.

Castor Oil directly to the Chalazion with lots of heat.

Apple Cider Vinegar
Posted by Rebecca (A) on 02/01/2017
5 out of 5 stars

December 2016 I woke to find a sudden pain like my eye was swollen and later that day I went to my optometrist. At that time I was told I had a stye and got drops and told to use hot compresses. Four days later it was a fun blown stye/chalazion!! I was given a steroid shot and a eye patch that is a compress by an ophthalmologist in Florida on vacation. Fast forward a week or two and my dermatologist took a biopsy! That's right! It was drained a bit on my top right lid. Then I had medication and compresses again. It looked BAD. I then on the same day decided an oclioplasric surgeon would be best. I got in on a whim and had 3 injections inside the top lid!!!! Them told to do compresses. 2 months later and and other visit. One more injections was put in and other day I was told in the middle of February if it was not gone prepare for surgery!!!!! I watched videos and knew the surgery might be pretty invasive since I would be put to sleep....

Well Jan 31st I read up and found this site. THANK you everyone before me for your post. I followed suit and bought apple cider vinegar with the "mother". I put it on with a cotton ball for five minutes and had a tablespoon in 8 0z of water. In before bed I did another cotton swab of apple cider vinegar for 5 minutes and then I warm eyepatch.

AMAZING RESULTS in the FIRST few hours. I woke up in the middle of the night and looked in the mirror. I could not believe my I almost look like my other eye. It is been about 2 months and I've been suffering with this inflamed redness with a chalazion bump in the middle. I'm going to keep this up for as long as possible and pray that this means it will be completely gone very soon period 4 on the outside it already looks amazing. Thank you again everyone for your post and I'm so grateful I found this site. But most of all I am grateful that I tried the natural approach using apple cider vinegar. ONLY A FEW HOURS AND SO FAR SO AMAZING!!

I tried to post before and afters. You're only allowed me to pull up one. I have no problem sharing if anyone needs to see my pictures. It looks almost a hundred percent better this morning!


Apple Cider Vinegar
Posted by John (New York) on 03/24/2014
0 out of 5 stars

Hi all, after reading so many stories with positive results of having used the apple cider vinegar, I decided to give it a try myself. Perhaps I'm exaggerating with the quantity of ACV I put on the cotton ball, but I notice the skin of my eyelid having a darker color, almost as if it's being "burned" or irritated by the vinegar. Was this normal for some of you as well? Also, would you recommend putting the ACV directly on the chalazion (i.e. on the underside of the eyelid where the chalazion actually is)? Thanks for any help you can offer, I love this forum!

Castor Oil
Posted by Anon (Usa) on 08/15/2018

Castor oil is typically applied over the chalazion. If the oil is pure it should not feel painfull if it gets into the eye. I have used it on a chalazion that was several years old and the chalazion shrunk quickly. The oil never bothered my eye.


Apple Cider Vinegar
Posted by Jasmine (Atl, Georgia) on 02/16/2017
5 out of 5 stars

I initially tried the Castor Oil treatment for my chalazion and it seemed to be working, however it was very slow. So, I switched over to the apple cidar vinegar and the results were amazing! My eye lid went from swollen like a black eye to a what looked like a pimple on my eye lid. To barely noticeable dark lid in 3 days. I took a q tip swab dipped into the Apple Cidar Vinegar and dadded my right eye lid lightly making sure not to get it in my eye and on top of the swollen bump, 3 times a day. I did not drink any of the vinegar, so I know it works with just direct application. I love Apple Cider Vinegar.

Castor Oil
Posted by Ty (America) on 07/05/2021

Thanks for sharing. I'm going to try this method in with my other method I'm using. I've had a chalazion on my eyelid for 5 years now that has hardened without redness. The chalazion has gotten smaller over the last 5 years but it's still there. I recently just started back consistently doing hot compress at least 5 times a day with a heated eye mask from Amazon and massages to it and mines also has started to split off into very tiny lumps that seem to be dissolving (the original lump is still there but it looks a little smaller). I'll update this in a couple of months if it worked since I know that Chalazions are very stubborn and I've had mines for 5 years so it will take some time to go away completely.


Castor Oil, Epsom Salts, Chamomile Tea
Posted by Yukiko (Inaba) on 03/30/2017
4 out of 5 stars

All I can say is, I wish I could give all chalazion/stye sufferers one big, tear-ridden hug. I've been suffering with eye problems since 2014; I'm in my twenties and I'm a mascara wearer, been one for years. However, I've come to realize my methods of make-up removal were not up to par. It all started in my right eye, the feeling of a piece of sand stuck underneath my top lid. I see the white-head, and assume it's a pimple, and I go full force when I see a white-head. DO NOT EVER DO THIS. EVER! I made it worse, google image search a picture of a stye and I was probably the worst picture that comes up. However the actual stye went away within a few days with just mere warm compresses.

This was just merely the intro. Evidently I did not drain the stye properly, because it appeared to harden to a small lump under my eye. I'm a pretty aloof person in general, and I'm not one to zone in on micro imperfections on my face as well as others, but one day I noticed that my right lid was a bit..lumpier? Than the left. I realize it's still probably some puss. Fast forward to researching about ACV and coconut oil, I go full force. All I did was burn my lid because I stupidly used pure apple cider vinegar instead of diluted. Okay, I back off and dilute the vinegar. Nothing. Maybe the swelling went down for me, but swelling wasn't my problem as it was a small rice sized lumb is stuck under my damn lid! Nothing would make it budge. It's 2017 and I still have this small lump, but it's barely noticeable.

Enter my left eye. I've been blissfully accustomed to my left eye being the golden child, problem free. I get a stye of February this year. A pretty bad one. At this point I'm not panicking because styes actually go away fairly quickly for me. I even do a bit of ACV treatment with my newfound knowledge of it. (ACV works miraculously for STYES, but in my case, not for chalazions). It's draining, I had to call a few days off work but it's draining. I delight when I see the collection of pure white gunk collect in the corner of my eye (fellow stye/chalazion sufferers, you'll definitely know how great this feels). My eye seems back to normal!!! Except...it's just like my right eye, there's another small lump!! And I'll be damned if it's symmetrical with my right!!

I get depressed over this now and then. I wouldn't call myself a vain person but having eye problems like this is just embarassing, although nobody has ever pointed out they noticed it, except my boyfriend who was unfortunately my right hand man during my terrible stye flame up which everyone could notice (I tactfully stayed indoors).

Okay onto the treatment, sorry I just wanted to share my story with you guys and know that I'm with you totally, I know how frustrating it is to have something that will never go away, and surgery will never be an option for me. But..here's the light at the end of the tunnel. On a whim I bought castor oil. Yeah I've read such things about it helping eye problems, but the good stories seemed few and far between. It seemed the frontrunner of chalazion cures was still ACV, but that just doesn't do anything for me other than smell bad and burn my lid, even diluted. (and yes, I alternate warm compresses and cool ACV every so often, sometimes doing this multiple times a day for a week straight, nothing). But castor oil. I've read many techniques, so I kind of make my own routine to see how that will work. And by god..I think I got something going here. My lump under my left eye seems more "localized", meaning I could definitely isolate it and move it around other than it just being a swollen mass.

Note: I do want to focus on my right eye, but that is just a small piece of rice compared to my left. I apply castor oil, soak a warm paper towel in some epsom salts (that also has been working and encouraging little crusties in my eyes when I wake up in the morning which I take as a good sign) and lay that right on top of the castor oil so it kind of sticks. From what I've learned, when you read "warm compress", it does not have to be piping hot or even "hot as you can stand". Take it from me guys, all it does is burn your eyelid and make it red and even more unsightly. Definitely warm but not to the point of pain, it should feel soothing. I alternate between this and cool treatments of chamomile tea bags for just a few minutes. When I wake up in the morning, it feels a bit smaller and smaller. I know this is going to take a while but thats how long it needs, and folks, they do eventually go away. Some people have had theirs for years when one day it just goes. It's just unfortunate for those of us who have to be in the public and are always a bit weary of our eyes. However, I will never get surgery. There's no guarantee it will be removed, and I've read stories of scarring and sometimes styes/chalazions coming back for vengeance. I'm sure surgery has worked for some and I applaud them, however, I believe homeopathy is the way to go and everyone is different so we all just need to keep experimenting.

For me, castor oil, epsom salts, and chamomile tea all together have been showing some differences. You could even do these treatments before you have to be somewhere. Just remember, do not burn your eyelid because you could make it worse and who knows, you may just be dealing with an inflamed lid instead of something underneath and you wouldn't know it because you're burning it.

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to finally share my struggles. I can't wait for the day where they make a magic pill to cure these things. And yes I've tried staphysagria and it didn't do anything for me.

Chalazion Disappeared On Its Own
Posted by Linda Sa (Sedona, Az) on 02/29/2016
5 out of 5 stars

I developed a chalazion last summer and tried twice-a-day compresses with light massage, boric acid washes, and apple cider vinegar on the outside of the lid for a couple of months but none of those worked to diminish it. I finally gave up trying anything and didn't worry about it.

Now, eight months later, it is completely gone without me doing anything to it - I didn't even stop wearing makeup. It disappeared by itself and I didn't need to try and fix it. It would be good to know if this is true for others - that the lesions just disappear on their own for everyone - or if I just got lucky.

Castor Oil
Posted by Brigette (Usa) on 06/18/2018

I would try cold pressed hexane free castor oil. It seems like it would be safer than antibiotic and steroid drops. Coconut oil is also gentle and healing.


Castor Oil
Posted by Steve (San Diego, Ca) on 01/13/2016
5 out of 5 stars

Chalazion treatment:

ACV did not work (made things worse). Switched to castor oil and compresses - this cleared everything in two days.

Cheers, Steve

Apple Cider Vinegar
Posted by Minda (London) on 09/12/2016
5 out of 5 stars

I have to second the apple cider vinegar it actually worked. I'm based in London so I was lucky enough to get the organic Apple Cider Vinegar with the mother in a local pharmacy. I would wash my whole face and use a little baby shampoo to clean my eyes massaging it with a cotton bud too. I would then boil the kettle and let it cool a little then use a face towel edge to apply it to the Chalazion. The water was very very hot which is what is needed. I then used a cotton bud to dip it into the vinegar and rub it around my chalazion and on my lash line making sure I didn't get any in my eye. I repeated this about three times a day. I continued this for about three days the chalazion finally came to a head and I was able to pop it a little pus came out along with blood and water. I made sure I cleaned it immediately with salt and hot water. Since then it has gone so small and no longer looks like a pea under my eye!! Antibiotics Eye drops did not work; they only made the chalazion bigger and warm water didn't really work as well as the really hot water. In addition, for two days I mixed the ACV with water and drank some which I think may have helped. P.s before this routine I'd had the chalazion my eye for just under 4 months. Hope this helps.


Apple Cider Vinegar
Posted by Jay (Winnipeg, MB) on 06/30/2020
5 out of 5 stars

Had a HUGE stye that turned into a chalazion and I was going at it hard with the hot compresses (4-5 times a day, at least 15 minutes at a time). This only made it get bigger. One thing to keep in mind is that heat increases sebum (oil) production in hair follicles, including the follicles of lashes. This can cause the follicles near the chalazion to clog up and impede drainage.

There's a good chance my follicles were already clogged by the huge stye my chalazion started out as. The excessive heat didn't help matters. Anyways, I decided to lay off the heat, just applying a compress twice a day, for 10 min at morning and 10 min at night.

I use the eye mask you can put in the microwave—it stays warm and you can easily re-heat. I bought mine from an optometry clinic but you can probably find one on Amazon. Anyways, I reduced compress use to 10 minutes at morning and night, followed by gentle pressure with cu-tip against the chalazion (as well as rolling it down the cyst toward the lash line).

In between doing this, so about 5 times a day, applied Apple cider vinegar with the “mother“ using a cu-tip. Dipped q-tip in vinegar, touched it against Kleenex so it wasn't dripping wet, then rolled q-tip over cyst and massaged gently into cyst, for about a minute. Got as close to the lash line as possible without getting any in my eye.

Chalazion is gradually shrinking (took a few days to notice a difference) and the lash follicles near the chalazion that had been filling with oil are draining as well.

In addition to the vinegar it's probably important to not overdo it with the heat. Too much heat also likely causes some inflammation and swelling which will just keep the silly thing from draining or make it worse. I would suggest at least try going down to warm compress 2-3 times a day, 10 minutes at a time, and use the vinegar.

It is absolutely working for me!!


Homeopathy
Posted by Jaime (Austin, Tx) on 04/01/2018
5 out of 5 stars

Homeopathy (silicea & calc fluor.) for hardened, large, pea-size, long standing Chalazion

My son developed a Chalazion on his right eye (upper lid) around 10 months ago. I was very ill and depleted of all energy to function normally at the time and couldn't do much research on how to help him. I was not happy with the options typically used to "heal" these relentless chalazion: surgery, steroids, antibiotics. Once I was feeling much better a few months later I could dive into research what he needed. I found several natural remedies and most of them seemed far fetched to try on my then 3 year old son. Him putting a warm/hot wet cloth on his eye was not gonna happen especially in the recommended 4-6 times a day at 10-20 minutes each time, eye drops, etc.

In my research it seemed that getting a long standing chalazion that had hardened to soften up was the key to getting it to drain and heal was the ticket. I was researching homeopathy options since I have seen it work for so many other things in our family. After countless hours and 5 or 6 months of researching when I had time I narrowed it down to two remedies I was going to try. Silicea 6c and Calc Fluor. 6c, a dose of each (2 globules of each kind in the mouth at the same time). Silicea brings things out of the body so I was hoping it would bring the pus to the surface.The Calc. Flur has been used for long standing, hardened chalazions.

I would give him a dose morning, noon and evening. The chalazion went thru many phases of me wondering if it was getting better/smaller or not. I took photos almost every day but it was hard to compare the shape/size of it with photos taken from different angles/lighting, etc. Plus, he is 3 so getting him to stand still is challenging for a closeup of his eye. So, some days it would look shiny/red/irritated/angry and other days the redness was gone and it looked smaller. Also, the chalazion shape was changing. So, it went from "oh it looks better" to "oh, I'm not sure if it is improving" but kept going anyway.

After about 10 days from starting the remedies it started looking like a pus pocket was forming on the lower left side of the chalazion. I figured this was a good sign especially if at some point we could get it to open up and massage the junk out. The pus area kept getting bigger and now the chalazion had morphed into a rounded point on that left side where the pus pocket was. If we pressed on the chalazion it was no longer hard and it seemed like it wanted to burst and I thought eventually it would but it never did. We just kept going with the remedies. Around or just before 2 weeks after starting the remedies we could definitely tell it was getting smaller. Today marks the evening of the 16th day of using these 2 remedies and we noticed after his bath that the curve of his upper eye lid was no longer deformed, AT ALL. The chalazion had gotten so big before these remedies that it deformed the contour of his upper eye lid. Instead of it being a typical, natural arch it had a big undulating curve in it. You couldn't see his whole eye because of the deformity. BUT no more.

The arch of his eyelid looked completely normal. When he woke up on the 17th day it had shrunk so much while he slept. It was maybe 15% of it's original size. Sidenote: In the mornings I would notice the biggest change in the chalazion....Some days when I would think it looked way better in the morning by evening it would like angry. I guess my advice would be to keep going with the remedies. I will report back in a week or so with the final results.

The silica 6c and the calc fluor 6c by borion you can purchase on amazon.com or probably any online homeopathic shop.

Also, these are the other homeopathic remedies we tried that didn't work:

  • Staphisagria
  • Plantanus Occ.

We also tried adding flax seed oil to his diet

If my son was older I would have also would have tried the following as well....

-the charcoal/flax meal poltice pouch. using charcoal since it is a drawing agent just makes sense.

-diy eye drops with distilled water and a little manuka honey....the honey burns and I wasn't sure how many weeks I would have to use it and on a 3 year old seemed like a major challenge. I just didn't want to put him thru that. So, we didn't go that route but I would of definitely done it on myself or if he were older. Or even the optimal manuka honey eye drops.

This is very long winded but I am hope that the details will help someone.

Best of luck,

jj

Apple Cider Vinegar
Posted by Soumya Gupta (India) on 09/26/2017
4 out of 5 stars

Hi,

I had a chalazion and I had surgery for it. After few months I got another chalazion in the same eye, but I do not want to go for any surgery now. I read about ACV and I started fermenting my eye with it and also drank it once a day. The chalazion has minimized a lot but when I stop using ACV fermentation it pops up again. What should I do to remove it permanently but not surgecally.


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