Collagen Supplementation for Torn Ligaments and Tendons

| Modified: Nov 07, 2020
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Collagen for Torn Ligaments.

by Art Solbrig

Published May 20, 2020
Updated October 11, 2020

In early January, a good friend of mine mentioned that his left upper arm had been hurting him for months and seemed to radiate into his shoulder area. He demonstrated that he had a minimal range of motion in his left arm and could only raise his left hand to just below the shoulder itself, and that entailed much pain to lift it that high.

He said his primary doctor took a look at it and promptly referred him to a surgeon. The surgeon sent him for an MRI with contrast dye.

When the results came back, the surgeon told him that he had torn ligaments and torn tendons in his upper arm. The surgeon went on to tell my friend that he was not a candidate for physical therapy and that the only way to improve his arm was with surgery. He suggested scheduling the surgery immediately. My friend asked him if he would be 100% in the left arm again post-surgery, and how long the recovery would take.

The surgeon said he would never be 100%, and in fact, it might become worse than before the surgery. There was no guarantee that he would be better, but it was possible.

So here was my friend explaining it all to me and asking for my opinion. I told him that the surgery sounded too risky because if he ended up worse than he currently was, there would be a lot of things he could no longer do.

I asked him if he had ever taken the highly potent antibiotic, Ciprofloxacin, or if he had ever been on statins because both are associated with blown tendons and ligaments as outlined in these links below. He told me he had never taken statins, but he had been on three extended regimens of Ciprofloxacin, which is also commonly referred to as Cipro.

https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/meds/a688016.html

https://www.aacp.org/article/connecting-dots-between-statins-and-tendon-injuries

So we talked a little more, and I suggested that since the surgery seemed risky, it might be worth trying a supplement or two first.

Studies Lacking on Supplements for Torn Ligaments

There are no studies that I am aware that specifically suggest any supplements that are likely to help torn tendons and torn ligaments.

Still, if you consider what the body is made of including the skeletal structure, muscles, tendons, and ligaments, then one supplement that might be worth a try would be collagen and, later, vitamin c, gelatin and possibly MSM.

The delayed timing on gelatin, vitamin C and MSM is just to see if the collagen is working first. If it is, the addition of vitamin c is likely to be useful. The combination may have synergy as they have two different methods of action, but both can increase collagen.

The Importance of Collagen

Here is a quote from an article describing how much collagen is in the human body:
 
"Collagen is the main component of connective tissue and is the most abundant protein in mammals, making up about 25% to 35% of the whole-body protein content."

Here is another link describing the importance of collagen in the body.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/262881#roles

Reviewing Collagen Supplements on the Market

I told my friend I was going to do a little research on collagen and would get back to him with what I found. I found that there are easily over 100 different collagen products on the market.  So what I did was go to Amazon to see what they had available.

I found one product with an excellent 5-star rating and a very significant number of reviews with 7,000 responses.

This particular product showed an 88% 5-star rating with only a 2% 1-star rating, so these are excellent ratings compared to other collagen products that were rated all over the place and had lower overall scores.

Clearly, collagen products are not created equal!

There were a couple of products that had a bit higher rating, but they only had a few hundred reviews. I know that reviews can be tainted, but that is a little less of a problem when you get into the thousands of reviews for one product, so I chose the product mentioned above, with thousands of reviews and a very high 5-star rating with a very low 1-star rating.

I then talked to my friend, and he agreed to try one bottle and see if it might help his arm.

He started on them as soon as they were delivered as his arm had deteriorated further. It had become more painful, and his range of motion considerably less.

He told me that he could not lay on that shoulder at night because he would fall asleep and wake up 5 to 10 minutes later from the pain! I told him that even if the collagen supplement didn't help his shoulder, he might have fabulous hair, glowing skin, and beautiful nails, and we both laughed at that! Hair skin and nails are generally what people use this product for.

Collagen Dosage for Torn Ligaments

My friend took the recommended dosage on the bottle:

3 capsules first thing in the morning on an empty stomach with 8 ounces of water.

Results After One Month of Supplementation

About two weeks into supplementing, I followed up with my friend, and he told me he still felt about the same.

At three weeks, he called me and said his arm felt a little less painful.

On day 24, he phoned to say his arm was less painful and that he could now raise it a bit higher than he could before he started on the collagen.

A month later we met up and he immediately said: "Check this out!"

He raised his arm fully above his head. Although he couldn't straighten his arm entirely and there was a little pain at the top of the range, this was a considerable improvement compared to when he started on the collagen.  Needless to say, he was very happy!

Experimentation With A Cheaper Product

After seeing his improvement, I decided to go back to Amazon to see if I could find any other products that might be comparable in ingredients at a lower price.

I found one that appeared to have the same ingredients and an excellent 5-star rating along with a low 1-star rating. The downside was this product only had a few hundred reviews. I thought about that and decided it might be worth a try since this product was 10 dollars less per bottle.

I ordered three bottles of the new product to try once he had used up his two bottles of the first collagen supplement.

Injury Setback

Soon after,  my friend called to tell me he had re-injured his arm when he got carried away lifting heavy boxes, which he was stacking in piles at the top of his upward reach.  I told him to avoid that type of activity for a few months to allow sufficient time to maximize whatever healing was possible.

He ran out of the first collagen product a week later, but he said his arm was feeling almost as good as before the box lifting incident.

I then gave him the three bottles of the different collagen supplement and told him to keep me posted. Bad idea.

Not All Collagen Products Are Created Equal

A month later, he told me he just started on his second bottle of the new supplement, but his arm was not feeling as good as it had before he started on the new supplement. I told him that the re-injury might be taking longer to heal, so he should give it a little more time and see how he does.

Two weeks later, he told me the healing had completely ceased and that he felt his arm was back to where it was before starting on the first collagen supplement.

I asked if he had been doing anything that might be irritating it and he said no because he was barely using it now because of the pain and lost range of motion. He was soon back to square one as he could not even lift his hand as high as his shoulder again.

Back to the Original Collagen Product

I ordered three bottles of the original collagen product at that point and gave them to him as soon as they came in. He started back on it immediately.

Within two weeks, he showed me that he could raise his arm relatively high again.

He also noticed that his lower back pain had reduced considerably. He just told that to me one day once he had been back on the original product for awhile. He said the improvement came on so gradually, that one day he realized his lower back was not hurting or the pain had become barely noticeable.

Today

He seems to be back on track now, and I am going to add the vitamin C in and make him a saturated solution of MSM that he can spray on as needed as a pain reliever.

That combination of organic sulfur, plus collagen and vitamin C should help the healing process and maximize the repair of those tendons and ligaments as much as possible. He feels so good now that he has put the idea of surgery way on the back burner. I told him we might add in gelatin for a moment, but not long term.

My lesson from this is that not all collagen supplements are created equal, and when you find one that works, it is probably best to stick with it!

Where to Buy

As you may have noticed, I do not usually like to recommend a specific brand of supplement because I never want to appear to be hyping a product. But in this case, I don't see a choice.

I would also like to say that two other people tried this product that I know and recommended it to; one had excellent results, and one had gastro issues. The one who had gastro issues, I told to return the product to Amazon if it was not working out for her, and she told me she hadn't thought of that, but she did end up returning it and thanked me. Amazon took it back with no problem. The other person told me it helped him noticeably with joint comfort during his workouts and allowed him to increase his muscle mass and he thanked me also!

Here is the link to the product on Amazon that my friend used with good effect for his torn tendons and ligaments with pain.

It's called Multi Collagen Plus by Dr. Emil Nutrition.

Conclusion

I have no idea how much the collagen may be repairing the damage, but it is certainly making his life much better again!

To me, it is astonishing how much an injury can alter your lifestyle by severely limiting the everyday things that you do and just take for granted.


Updates

October 11, 2020

My friend is doing very good, but I wanted to mention my 80 something year old neighbor who I mentioned this specific collagen supplement to and she said she wanted to try it to help her joints. I saw her yesterday and we talked for awhile. I could see she was moving like a much younger woman, but it was her hair that really caught my attention! ???

Yes, her hair looked like it belonged on a 30 year old!!! It had not only filled in her thinning areas, it was thick, full and dense! She was thrilled and told me how she had just been to her hairdresser and she was shocked at the difference! Her hairdresser immediately wanted to know what my neighbor had done and she said she started using a specific collagen supplement that I had suggested for her. Her hairdresser wanted to know exactly what it was!

My neighbor went on to tell me that her friend was also amazed at the change and she wanted to try it too!

Overall, this product is producing pretty amazing results for more than just torn ligaments and tendons!

Art


Continue reading below for comments and feedback from Earth Clinic readers!


Collagen Contraindications

Posted by Carlton (London, UK) on 10/14/2020

Regarding Art's collagen article

I ordered some Collagen. The label states as follows:

Marine collagen type 1&3 1000mg, Hyaluronic Acid 200mg/serving; Vitamin C, Zinc, Copper for Immune System; E, B2, Iodine. Hydrolyzed peptides supplement. Dose: 2 capsules daily.

I take Levothyroxine 100mcg daily for Hashimoto's. Do you think the fact the collagen contains Iodine is a problem for me? Each capsules contains 100mcg of Iodine, so a total of 200 mcg if 2 capsules are taken.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Replied by Helen
AB, Canada
05/22/2020

Hi Art, Can you take the collagen if you have heart issues?

Replied by Art
California
05/23/2020
731 posts

Hi, Helen! I have not seen conclusive studies regarding existing heart disease and collagen supplementation, so it will be safer for you to consult your cardiologist to be as safe as possible. Art


Posted by Helen M. (A) on 07/18/2020

Asking a question about low sodium Hyponatremia and any reaction to collagen supplements?

Replied by Art
California
07/18/2020
731 posts

Helen M.,

I have never seen anything that would indicate that collagen supplementation can cause low sodium levels.

Common causes of Hyponatremia are certain diuretics, excessive water intake, hormonal imbalance, excessive diarrhea, dehydration, antidepressants, Cushing's Syndrome, excessive exercise, NSAIDS and other pain medications.

Art


Collagen Feedback

Posted by DeeDee (Texas) on 10/31/2020

Art...I have a question about Cipro.

I had three or four rounds of Cipro seven or eight years ago, but only recently been diagnosed with torn tendon. (I had x-rays and MRI with and without contrast) It shows full thickness tear of gluteal tendon. My orthopedic surgeon has me going to physical therapy for six weeks to see if that helps, before surgery. However, I feel like my tendons in arms are bad too! I know I have arthritis but this feels totally different. I ordered the collagen that you suggested and started with the 3 pills a day on an empty stomach. I have only been taking them for one week now, so no improvement yet. Anyway, my question is how long CAN cipro take to do this damage?? Everything I have read says the longest is up to six months but mine has been years. Do you think it is still possible?? Thank you, DeeDee

Replied by Art
California
10/31/2020
731 posts

Hi Dee Dee.

The time range (years) between when you took cipro and when you started having symptoms is generally considered outside of the range that cipro can do damage.

Here is how I would look at it. It appears that cipro is not the likely cause, so I would move cipro out of the equation and then focus on the problem at hand which is the full thickness tear of the gluteal tendon. You are on the right course with starting on the collagen supplement. For myself in this position I would also take vitamin C to further increase collagen production and I would also give some consideration to taking gelatin as a supplement and possibly hyaluronic acid, but definitely 2,000 mg minimum of vitamin c per day.

On a related note, the friend that I wrote the collagen post about is doing well, but he went on a trip and forgot his collagen and so far has not had a problem with the missed doses.

Art

Replied by DeeDee
Texas
11/01/2020

Thank you so much Art. I do take vit c (at least 3 grams per day) and also hyaluronic acid 120 mg. Will add gelatin now.

Thanks again, DeeDee

Replied by Art
California
11/01/2020
731 posts

Hi Dee Dee,

Please come back to EC and share your results!

Art

Replied by Bill
Philippines
11/01/2020

Some more information on Ciprofloxacin or Cipro which might help some people. If you look up Cipro in Wikipedia you will see that each molecule of Cipro contains fluorine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciprofloxacin

So for me, because Cipro contains fluorine, that automatically disqualifies Cipro as an outright poison for the human body and so you should NEVER take Cipro as a medication. EVER.

Cipro, characteristically, is well known to cause "sudden tendon rupture" as a side-effect and that's because Cipro causes tissue/cell necrosis(cell/tissue death) caused by the fluorine in Cipro. The favorite tendon that suddenly snaps or breaks for no reason when you've taken Cipro is usually the Achilles tendon in the lower leg.

The liver also has great difficulty getting rid of fluorine from the body. So it stores it within the body as fat instead. Excess fluorine is also stored in the bones and teeth. And, unfortunately, fluorine is also easily absorbed by the thyroid gland instead of iodine -- especially if your diet is low in iodine and your are hypothyroid. Thus many people in the US who take Cipro will suffer all the poisonous effects of fluorine plus all the hypothyroid symptoms as well -- low energy, low mental accuity, tired all the time, poor immune system, digestion problems etc etc.

The only two nutrients I know that will remove fluorine safely from the body are Lugol's Iodine(also recovers the thyroid) and Borax.

https://www.earthclinic.com/remedies/lugols-iodine-supplements.html

https://www.earthclinic.com/remedies/borax.html

And because fluorine can be stored in fat, bones and teeth, this also means that it will take quite a while to remove or detox all that fluorine from all those difficult areas in your body(probably >year).

By the way, Cipro is usually the drug of choice if your doctor is clueless as to what is causing your problems. For instance, this year my wife had a bad upset stomach/intestines and had to go to the hospital. The doc didn't know what was actually causing her problems so he just prescribed Cipro. I immediately objected and asked him whether he was aware that Cipro was a poison because of the fluorine. The young doc -- who must've been about 24 yo -- looked at me strangely as if I was an idiot. And then I said, "And are you aware that Cipro has a FDA Black Box warning on the the box it comes in?". That did worry the young doc (he didn't know about the black box warning, I kid you not!) but he still prescribed Cipro for my wife. Anyway, on my advice, my wife didn't take the Cipro. I advised that she should just take several aspirin that day and in the evening. The next day she was fully recovered. The aspirin killed-off the bad bacteria that was causing all her problems.

True story. In the old days -- pre-WWII -- if the older doctors didn't know what was causing a patient's problem/diseases they would normally always give their patients high dose 5% Lugol's Iodine. These old docs admitted that they didn't understand how LI worked or what it did but they all said that Lugol's Iodine "would always do something good." But now, if the modern docs don't know your problem/disease they will probably give you Cipro. And if ever there was a completely useless, only-for-profit antibiotic drug out there that was not beneficial to the human body -- it's a poison! -- Cipro is it.

Did you know that Ciprofloxacin is also on the WHO's list of Essential Medicines? Cipro is just dangerous chemo in a pill. And the docs are prescribing it like it was jelly-babies...

Replied by Tessa
Okanagan
11/02/2020

Thank you, Bill, for all of the information you share with us.

In 1995 (unfortunately, before the Internet), I was prescribed Cipro for pneumonia. I had a very bad reaction, resulting in hospitalization.

Believe me, that was the last time I trusted a doctor.

I wish I knew then what I know now. Fortunately, with sites like Earth Clinic and mercola.com, I have been able to stay away from conventional doctors. I haven't taken any prescriptions since 1995 and rely on Lugol's, supplements, borax, and a host of other things, to stay as healthy as I can.

On another note, I hope you and your family are safe from Typhoon Goni.

Take care!

Replied by Art
California
11/02/2020
731 posts

Hi Bill,

As if the blown tendons and ligament tears aren't bad enough, Cipro is also known for causing nerve damage resulting in peripheral neuropathy!

Cipro is in a class of antibiotics known for these problems of which there are many different names as outlined here :

https://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20130826/fda-strengthens-fluoroquinolone-warning

It is not enough to just scratch Cipro from the list of drugs you will not take because there are many different named drugs in this drug class as mentioned in the above link. Levaquin is another popular one from this group, but there are many more and the patient has to be aware of this in order to protect themself from these potential very serious side effects!

Art

Replied by Nadine
Texas
11/07/2020

Hi Art,

I have only been taking this product for two weeks today, but I am very hopeful! I am definitely feeling better and sleeping better as well. And....I haven't taken ANYTHING for pain for almost a week!! DeeDee

Replied by Art
California
11/07/2020
731 posts

That's great news, Dee Dee! I hope you continue to see continued improvement. It takes time for the healing to occur. My friend who used the collagen has been off of it for two weeks and has reported no problems, but I would like to see him continue with the collagen for a bit longer to optimize healing, but as it is, he is very happy with his results!

Art


Posted by Vidyullatha (Raleigh, NC) on 06/14/2020

Hi everyone, I need some help/advice. My cousin (28 years old) has recurring shoulder dislocation issues for 3 years. When he works hard physically, pulls, or pushes something, his shoulder dislocates. He is being treated by local chiropractors, but there has not been any healing. Doctors recommend surgery, however, the surgery results in an inability to rotate his arm 360 degrees. In his town, 70 more people are suffering from the same problem. Would this be caused by any mineral deficiencies/toxins? If anyone has any knowledge about this kind of problem please share. Thank you.

Replied by Art
California
06/14/2020
731 posts

This is called "chronic shoulder instability" and once a shoulder has been dislocated just once, it is subject to this instability which means it can be prone to dislocate again. This is common in people who are or were active in sports such as hockey or football who dislocated their shoulder. I'm not thinking collagen would be effective in this case. Here is a video that shows a different option for shoulder repair that might be suitable for your cousin that does not limit range of motion : https://youtu.be/yB7yTdsoT24 Art

Replied by Charity
faithville, Us
06/15/2020

Videos: John knows the bones spine and lots of stuff to heal the body https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGPZkw4XJ1I Eric on referred pain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GHVuUnX0H4&t=342s


Posted by Dan (North Jersey) on 05/28/2020
5 out of 5 stars

Art Solbrig, Thank you so much for such an obviously altruistic, wanting - to - ease - pain article on collagen, and its benefits for joint ailments to back pain, and more. The link to Multi Collagen Plus on Amazon was greatly helpful. ALL THE BEST!

Replied by Art
California
06/28/2020
731 posts

Hi, Dan.

I really have no idea about the use of melatonin for a multi decade nasal issue. It worked extremely well to get rid of my months long cough, but that is not the same issue.

If it is really arthritis in your back, borax is what has put my arthritis into remission for well over a decade using Ted's dosing recommendation for men. It costs less than a penny per day at Ted's dosing schedule. When I say remission, I mean no pain at all from what was severe pain in most joints. I would not be without borax now. Collagen can help some people with arthritis, but I suspect that it is a different method of action than borax. If I had to choose only one for arthritis, my first choice would be borax as I believe borax goes after the cause while collagen may just be replacing what is being depleted by the disease process. For some people, MSM works well for relief from arthritis pain, but I am not one of those people and some people are sensitive to MSM and can not use it. I don't consider DMSO to be a practical long term option, but some claim it relieves arthritis pain and other forms of pain, but again, I am not one of those people as it does zero for any pain issues I have tried it for including arthritis.

If I had a similar nasal issue, I think I would try Mucinex, a neti pot using different active ingredients including a blend of colloidal silver and xylitol, quercetin, homeopathy and a nasal spray called Xlear in no particular order. Here is a link for Xlear which also contains xylitol which can act as an anti-irritant.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=xlear+nasal+spray+with+xylitol&crid=22WCS25K9I59A&sprefix=xlear,aps,231&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_6_5

Good luck and please keep us posted on how you do!

Art

Replied by Dan
New Jersey
05/30/2020

Hello, Art! Thank you for the great info on Dr. Neel's mega melatonin regimen. I take 10-mg, sub-lingually at bedtime, for sleep, but have never been able to stop multiple sniffles, blowing my nose, and hacking phlegm (easily 15 to 30 times a day ) SINCE THE AGE OF THREE !!! And if I have a cold, all the above, easily 100 times ...........That's SEVENTY TWO YEARS, every day of my mucusy life! I' m going to try 50-mg tonight. I'm vegan ( no dairy ) and take a slew of vitamins, though I can't afford the pricey ones like resveratrol, co-q-10, NADH, etc. But I'm up to 18 grams of ascorbic acid , with no effect on my nasal games. I'm looking forward to this melatonin experiment ! Again, THANK YOU! Lastly, are there any vegan, or even vegetarian multi-collagen caps or powders that would come close to the arthritis-relieving Multi Collagen Plus, by Dr. Emil Nutrition? I've had financially & socially crippling back problems since age 19 & would love to see some of the various improvements Amazon customers raved about, that you so considerately and time-savingly provided with your link. I looked for vegan collagen on Amazon, but the reviews were dismal. As an afterthought, I don't think I'd have a moral dilemma, if Multi Collagen Plus was not made from animals killed for collagen, but from animal parts left from those slaughtered for food. All The Best! Dan

Art
California
05/28/2020
731 posts

Hi Dan, Thank you very much for the compliment! Yes, I definitely hope that others see similar benefits as my friend did with this supplement! I'm hoping the Melatonin /Covid-19 post will save lives and serious after effects that are now seen in Covid-19 survivors! Unfortunately, the one and only planned study for melatonin and Covid-19 is only going to use 2 mg of melatonin! How sad is that when they continue to trial and test drugs like remdesivir and hydroxychloroquine which still allow people to die of Covid-19. Dr. Neel only has 20 Covid-19 patients as of last week, but everyone of them started to improve in one day of using high dose melatonin (HDM)! Not one of his patients had the dreaded "cytokine storm" or pneumonia or had to be intubated. These are three major points of Covid-19 that are associated with death and without those three, Covid-19 becomes less of a killer disease and more of a "disease that you can live with". https://earthclinic.com/ailments/melatonin-for-covid19-post-intensive-care/ Sorry to drift so far off topic, Dan, it's just that I am a little passionate about melatonin and Covid-19 as well as melatonin and other major diseases like cancer! Art

Art
California
05/30/2020
731 posts

Dan, Two things that are often mentioned for excess mucous that does not release easily are N Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) and Mucinex, both mucolytics, but whether you plan to try anything for the condition you have, including melatonin, it seems that you should seek your professional health care provider's advice or your doctor's advice and supervision because any of these can potentially interact with medications you are taking or could possibly impact your current condition negatively since it sounds like you have never had a definitive diagnosis. Art

Replied by Dan
North Jersey
05/31/2020

Hi, Art! Very kind of you to respond to my concerns so quickly! I've taken NAC ( 600 mg ) with Alpha Lipoic Acid ( 600 mg ) at least once a day, for years & years, not for mucous, but to protect my liver & kidneys from too many tablespoons ( sometimes 2 to 3 ) of organic agave syrup, mixed in with nut butters ( soy, almond, sunflower, tahini, peanut .....all organic , or at least non-GMO ). I'll look into Mucinex. Thanks for the tip. As for "no definitive diagnosis " , every doctor I've ever seen, including the last two, who were immediately informed of my nasal annoyances, were completely ineffective in finding a cause. And the last one, who is world famous, Dr. A. ( has a radio program on WBAI , 99.5 FM , and was chief pathologist for over 35 years at Holy Name Hospital in Teaneck , NJ ), does not accept Medicare. So it would cost me the usual $175.00 to get his advice on NAC, Mucinex, melatonin, etc. The last time I saw him, about 7 months ago, I asked him what it would cost for an intravenous, 50-gram, vitamin-C drip . He said he doesn't go any higher than 25-grams, and it would cost $160.00 !!! That's in addition to the $175.00 office visit. This level of price gouging is so disappointing from a doctor whose broadcasts repeatedly showed disgust with the medical profession. I've stayed away from antihistamines for liver/kidney/drowsiness concerns, but I'm gonna' try the Mucinex. I'll also try 3 or 4 caps of NAC before bed. Be Good To Yourself, as you have been to others and me. Dan

Art
California
05/31/2020
731 posts

Dan, One other thing you can try is a nasal spray that contains Xylitol. It is called Xlear nasal spray. The xylitol can have antibacterial qualities plus anti-irritant qualities. Art

LttleWing
Boston
10/29/2020

Please be careful with Mucinex, it can make your blood pressure skyrocket, one of the side effects. I can't take it, though it does work, but not worth the danger of feeling your pulse every time your eyes blink, scary stuff.


Posted by Ray H. (south west) on 05/21/2020
5 out of 5 stars

I sent in a comment 3 years ago about how Cipro damaged my tendon in my knee and femoral nerve. I now have cartilage tears in my wrist for the last 8 months. I started taking collagen 3 months ago and I have had less pain. I can play golf with a separated wrist ban on each side of my wrist. Thank you for the information.

Replied by Art
California
05/21/2020
731 posts

You're welcome, Ray! If you decide to try the product that my friend used, please comeback and tell us about your experience with it. Thank you, Ray! Art

Replied by Ray
South West
10/13/2020

I just want to update on my wrist with Art. My wrist is 80% to the good. I will be ordering more collagen you recommended.

Not complaining, but woke up this morning and and my ankle is in severe pain for no reason. Soaking it in hot epsom salts and applying magnesium spray. So I'm back on crutches. I believe this is caused by the Cipro.

Any other remedies please let me know. Thank you, Ray

Replied by Art
California
10/13/2020

Hi Ray,

I'm very happy to hear that the collagen is significantly helping with your wrist! My friend is getting on quite well with it and I saw him out in his yard working with different shears, clippers and a hedge trimmer with no problem the other day and his happy!

Regarding your ankle, a few things things come to mind without knowing more, gout, a fracture or arthritis. Gout is caused by too much uric acid and the number one remedy on EC is apple cider vinegar, but pure black cherry juice is also helpful for gout.

For arthritis, borax, MSM and boron are useful.

For a fracture, you will need an xray to confirm and then you can work on it from there.

No matter the cause of the pain, a good topical pain reliever should be effective, but it would be better to have your doctor determine the cause first.

Art

Replied by Art
California
10/13/2020
731 posts

Ray,

I forgot to mention if you think the ankle is from cipro, take vitamin c and extra if you are already taking it. It may also help with gout if it is caused by gout.

Art


Posted by Sherri (Oak Hill, WV) on 05/21/2020
5 out of 5 stars

Art, My husband had a stem cell transplant for Multiple Myeloma & they gave him Levaquin for 10 days. He had ruptured tendons, rotator cuff injuries, along with other things that make it impossible for him to lift his arm. He is in constant pain. I give him Magnesium and Tumeric but will order a bottle of this and make sure he is ok to take it as he is on Warfarin. Hoping this will bring him some relief. Thank you for this information.

Replied by Art
California
05/21/2020
731 posts

Hi Sherri,

It sounds like your husband got the worst possible effects of Cipro and I am sorry to hear that. On the positive side, the curcumin is very good to take for multiple myeloma(MM)! For further information on the roll and effects of curcumin with MM, here is a link to a blog that I think you and your husband may find quite useful:

https://margaret.healthblogs.org/

The originator of that blog is Margaret who is a very nice lady and has had MM for a long time and has managed to keep it at bay with curcumin and a few other supplements, curcumin is the main component of her regimen. I used to go to her blog many years ago, so I doubt she will remember me, but I would definitely recommend that the both of you stop in and see how she has kept MM at more a less a stand still for so many years! Back to your husband's pain issues. The collagen may help, but it takes time as my friend found out. I can suggest a couple of noninvasive topical pain relievers to help your husband until the collagen does whatever it is going to do. The first one is an old standby here on EC and that is magnesium chloride oil or mag oil (MO) as it is commonly referred to. MO can relieve some joint pain and reduce inflammation and swelling such as a twisted ankle might have as well as help to relax tense muscles especially in the neck and shoulder areas. It can also rapidly relieve muscle cramps in the legs, feet, arms and hands. Here is a link to an inexpensive ($10) MO product that will be plenty for your husband to test and use for quite awhile.

https://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Oil-Spray-STRENGTH-Essential/dp/B01N0KQ9QJ/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=mag+oil&qid=1590084926&sr=8-6

The other product I would suggest is a homeopathic blend product and being a homeopathic product is much less likely to have adverse effects. This product I would describe as having slightly more pain relieving effect than MO, but does not have as broad effects as MO, but if pain relief is the main issue then this one may be a good choice, but either one should be helpful. https://www.swansonvitamins.com/natrabio-the-arnica-rub-4-fl-oz-cream

Sherri, please comeback and keep us updated on how your husband does with all of it as this information will be quite useful for the members of EC! Art


Posted by Kate (United States) on 05/21/2020

Art, I have trouble taking big pills due to having had gastric bypass surgery 18 years ago. Is there a powdered form that would work well? I use one in my cup of tea each morning and it helps but I just bought that at the grocery store (vitamin aisle). I would just love to get your opinion on a good powdered collagen.

Replied by Art
California
05/21/2020
731 posts

Hi, Kate!

I think this one below may be worth giving a try as it is powder that can be mixed into a smoothie, coffee or just about any cold or hot drink. This one is obviously popular with over 26,600 reviews and a 80% five star rating and a 4% 1 star rating! An 80% 5 star rating is very impressive with this huge number of reviews and the 4% of 1 star ratings is also very impressive with this many reviews. Generally, as the number of reviews grow, the 5 star rating drops and the 1 star ratings increase, but this product with the huge number of reviews has managed to keep its ratings very high! These are very good numbers when there are 26,600 reviews! It is not exactly the same formulation as the capsules that my friend used, but it seems worth a try. Collagen Peptides Powder by Sports Research https://amzn.to/2Tu4WQf

Kate, if you do decide to test this product, please come back to this post and give an update to EC so if it works well for you, others on EC who have swallowing issues can also have a viable option to the capsules!

Thank you! Art


Posted by Doreen (Canada) on 05/20/2020
4 out of 5 stars

When I click on the Amazon link in the article, it takes me to a page that has multiple brands. So which one is the correct one? Thanks. -----------------------

EC: Hi Doreen, It's called: Multi Collagen Plus (Types I, II, III, V & X) - Collagen Peptides + Absorption Enhancer - Grass Fed Collagen Protein Blend for Anti-Aging, Hair, Skin, Nails and Joints (90 Collagen Capsules) by DR EMIL NUTRITION

Replied by Art
California
05/20/2020
731 posts

Yes, that is the one my friend used and it looks just like the picture of the jar in the original post. Art


Posted by Jan (Tucson, Arizona USA) on 05/20/2020
5 out of 5 stars

https://greatlakesgelatin.com/collections/collagen Comes in smaller cardboard cylinders, too. Easily mixed with beverages.

Replied by BChristine
United States
05/20/2020
4 out of 5 stars

Please see the latest report from OCA regarding collagen. Great Lakes contains heavy metals, along with a few other ones that were surprising: https://www.organicconsumers.org/blog/consumer-beware-these-popular-collagen-supplements-contain-heavy-metals

Replied by Art
California
05/20/2020
731 posts

Hi, Jan,

If that collagen supplement is working good for you, that is great! I specifically mentioned Multi Collagen Plus Types I, II, III, V & X, because that is the exact product that worked for my friend for his torn ligaments and torn tendons. He also tried a similar product with the same ingredients on the label and it did not work for him at all as he continuously declined while taking it and turned out to be a complete waste of time and money. I don't normally point out a specific product like this, but because it has worked very effectively for him and the other similar collagen product did not,

I am specifically pointing out the collagen product that did work for him very well. When I started reading the reviews for the many collagen products out there, it became clear that judging by the ratings and comments not all collagen products are created equal! It's not like vitamin D where most brands are going to be similar in effects, so brand is not a critical issue, but in this case I am pointing out the product that worked very well for his purpose so there is no confusion about what worked for him.

Art


Posted by Roger (United States) on 05/20/2020
5 out of 5 stars

Thanks Art for a great review. I've been taking a collagen supplement off and on for a while in an attempt to help knee issues that I'm sure include tendons and ligaments. I have narrowing of the medial compartments as well. Lots of pain to a point of not being able to walk or balance well due to the pain and instability of both knees. I'll try this brand of collagen for a few bottles. If there in anything else you may suggest for my case, I would appreciate hearing about it. I've tried many other remedies found on Earth Clinic as well as other places. This includes most every supplement, TENS, Laser Light Therapy and even stem cell injections. Lately I've been reading about Dr. Sarno's findings for chronic pain. Makes a lot of sense being nothing is helping and things should have healed by now. It's been about 10 years for the left knee and about 2 now for the right. Thank you.

Replied by Art
California
05/20/2020
731 posts

Hi, Roger! I'm hoping that you see similar results as my friend did! Please come back after some time and let us know how it works for your knees and pain as this will be useful for many here on EC! I noticed in the Amazon reviews of this product, users reported improvements in their knees as well as other joints and the back, which seems to make sense as certain forms of collagen are found throughout the body. Pain is always an issue for many, so having things on hand that can be useful is a good thing. I may have an idea or two for you, but I have to check with EC first to find out if this is the appropriate thread to put it in since this post is specifically about collagen and torn tendons and ligaments. Another consideration is that taking another new product at the same time as testing this collagen supplement may not allow you to know which one is working or which one is working better. I will get back to you after I check with EC about where to post back to you and they give me an answer. I know from experience that when you have significant pain, as it sounds like you do, any relief is welcome and I may have a couple of ideas that may be helpful and can be used while you are testing collagen without affecting the outcome of your test, so I will get back to you soon! Art

ORH
TEN MILE, TN
05/21/2020

ART,,,,,,,,, ever once in a while a feller come along that has something good to talk about. I think you are one of those fellas. At 83, my skin is tissue thin. It tears with the least brush against something. I just ordered the product that you recommended. Not a deal, as we knew we would have old age problems and have the cash to do what is needed. I also like your approach to solving a problem. I have used that logic my entire life and it works. I have a Ch E degree from Ga Tech, but my logic come from being an Eagle Scout. My Scout Master did not care if you got above a Tenderfoot, but if you were in his troop, then you could live in the woods with ease. You bonded with nature. Thank you for your contributions to EC. We just different kind of folks from the norm. ====ORH====

Art
California
05/22/2020
731 posts

ORH, It has been a while! I really don't have experience with collagen for thinning skin, but that is one of the primary uses that it is often recommended for. I don't think the topical collagen creams can do that much because it is such a large molecule that I am doubtful that even DMSO would be able to pull it in. Vitamin C will also increase collagen production, so it will likely work well with the collagen, and C is anti-inflammatory and a good antioxidant. Application of a saturated solution of MSM, which you probably already have on hand, can be useful for the outside of the skin, followed by some vitamin e oil applied on top of the MSM, which may also be useful. MSM seems to penetrate the skin fairly quickly, and it also increases collagen production. It may allow the vitamin e to penetrate a little better while the sulfur content is reparative. Topically applied melatonin liquid may be even better than vitamin E since it is a more potent antioxidant as well as a more potent anti-inflammatory. I have not attempted to work on thinning skin previously, but these seem likely to help improve the overall condition of the skin and protecting what you have. When taken orally in the evening, the melatonin also upregulates the gene expression of the body's potent antioxidants such as Catalase, Glutathione Peroxidase, and Superoxide Dismutase. In contrast, melatonin itself is a very potent radical scavenger of multiple species. Applying melatonin liquid topically will get in your system and affect the antioxidant system accordingly because it readily enters tissues throughout the body. Let us know how it works out, ORH as this is a fairly common problem. Art

Roger
United States
05/21/2020

Thanks Art, please do let me know your ideas. I appreciate any suggestions.

Art
California
05/22/2020
731 posts

Roger, I get a little turned around in this thread, but I did give another answer about possible pain relief. You'll have to look for the reply in this thread. Art


Collagen Side Effects

Posted by Gracie (Uk) on 10/11/2020
0 out of 5 stars

With all due respect to Art's wonderful help and advice that he gives Earth Clinic readers, I did take the collagen supplement that he recommended for his friend, and experienced adverse effects. I took the supplement for a month, and the following two months after that were the lowest I'd felt in my life. I cannot say with any certainty that it was due to the collagen or whether it was coincidental, but it has taken me quite a time to get my health back on track again.

Processed collagen does not suit everyone!

Replied by Art
California
10/12/2020
731 posts

Hi Gracie,

You are correct, not everything suits everyone and this goes for vitamins, supplements, herbs and prescription medications. Even something like vitamin D can not be taken by everyone. If the product was not compatible with you, I would definitely return it no matter how many pills are left in the bottle!

Even with prescription medications such as blood pressure medications, it always comes down to trial and error because nobody knows if one medication will work for an individual until they try it and that is the reason there are so many different blood pressure medications, because if one doesn't work or is incompatible with you, the doctor simply has you try another one. Supplements are the same, trial and error. I try to report the ones that show success in studies or people or both. Thank you for the feedback, Gracie! Positive feedback is nice, but it is also good to know about the downside too.

Art

Replied by Gracie
UK
10/13/2020

Hi Art,

Thank you for the kindness and wisdom contained in your response to my letter. In the past I've tried two different types of collagen, one bovine sourced, the other marine, and had negative reactions to both. Brain fog, overwhelming tiredness, not wanting to do anything, so I should have known better than to try Dr Emil's version. I believe it was the success your friend had in taking the supplement, and all the different types of collagen in it that persuaded me to give it a try. Plus I was desperate because the arthritis in my right knee had spread to my left hip and I needed a solution!

I've taken many supplements in the past to stay well and have been relatively successful, so when I read of your recommendation for Amla I couldn't resist. I know you recommended it for memory loss, and my need is a solution for arthritis, I decided to give it a try because it is said to be good for so many ailments. I purchased the Amla in powder form (the taste is not good), along with Moringa (taste again not good), also a capsule filling device, and have been taking these two supplements to help with the arthritis and general health. And have been waking up filled with a wellspring of happiness and the arthritis pain at a more manageable level.

Amla has been used in Avedic medicine for centuries, and I feel it to be relatively safe, so thank you for the recommendation.

Best wishes.

Replied by Art
California
10/13/2020
731 posts

Hi Gracie,

Thank you for the reply and I'm sorry that the collagen was not helpful for you. I guess your previous issues with collagen were the warning.

The Amla is a very impressive supplement with the long history of healthful benefits that you mentioned and is the reason why it was the first supplement I offered to my friend to try and get her off of her prescription meds.

It has antioxidant and antiinflammatory qualities and at the amounts used has shown the ability to lower certain inflammatory mediators such as IL-1b, IL-6, TNF alpha and NF Kappa b. It also very significantly increases glutathione by up to 50% in just 12 weeks! Both antiinflammatory and antioxidant effects are likely what is helping your knee. You said you have tried many supplements, but have you tried, borax, MSM or boron yet for the arthritis as longer term remedies? I can recommend a couple of topical pain relievers, but they only offer temporary pain relief, but don't offer longer term relief as borax, MSM or boron can. There are also homeopathic remedies I can suggest.

I've even used borax topically for arthritic hands, but have not tried it that way for a knee or a hip. I made it into a lotion for the hands. Oral borax was a game changer for me and has kept my arthritis in remission for well over 12 years now and it was severe arthritis!

Colloidal silver has also been suggested for arthritis and while I have used colloidal silver a lot, I have not tried it for that purpose and since my arthritis is now nil, I can't even test it on myself first for arthritis.

Art


Healed Bad Knees and Hips

Posted by Thomas Lewis (Full-time RVing, currently in Flagstaff, AZ) on 05/20/2020 24 posts
5 out of 5 stars

I have seen good results in myself and several people within 4 months of taking one 500 mg capsule per day of chicken sternum Type 2 collagen capsules from SwansonVitamins or PipingRock.

My knees were loose in their sockets in 2015, but their cartilage filled in back to normal in 4 months by taking a capsule of chicken sternum mornings. In 2016, another person canceled their hip replacement during 6 months of taking the chicken sternum capsules. During the same 6 months, a friend of the hip replacement person could not stand in the buffet line without having to sit down because of knee pain, but ended up canceling their knee replacement by taking the chicken sternum and was walking around normally as if the knee had never hurt. More recently in April of 2020, another 86 year old person's severe knee pain was healed within 4 months of taking a capsule per day of the Swanson chicken sternum.

A bottle of 120 capsules currently costs about $15 from Swanson: https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-chicken-sternum-cartilage-collagen-type-ii-500-mg-120-caps

Also fromPipingRock: https://www.pipingrock.com/chicken-collagen/chicken-sternum-collagen-type-ii-500-mg-120-capsules-8483

Replied by Art
California
05/21/2020
731 posts

Thomas Lewis, Thank you for the testimonial on chicken sternum! Chicken sternum is type II collagen, which is one of the five types of collagen found in the supplement I mentioned that worked well for my friend. The most abundant collagen form found in humans is type I, which is also contained in the supplement that he used along with three other forms of collagen plus Bioperine, which acts to improve absorption of the collagen supplement. I feel that the use of five types of collagen plus the Bioperine may offer more in terms of what the body can utilize and how well the body will be able to use this supplement. The other supplement he tried also contained the type II chicken sternum based collagen, but was ineffective for him, so this is the reason for naming a specific product that worked for this particular case involving torn tendons and ligaments. The amount of each collagen type in the noted supplement is not given in any of the supplements I looked at on Amazon, just that they contain five different types of collagen. But type I collagen is the most abundant type in humans, so it is likely to be important for the maintenance of tendons and ligaments. None of the cases you mentioned involved torn tendons or ligaments as my friend had as confirmed by a dye contrast MRI, so they are not exactly comparable to his situation and what worked for him. Not to say that your recommendation does not work for what you stated, just that this is not the same supplement or tendon issues that my friend used successfully for his torn tendons and ligaments. This can be a significant issue for people on statins and or Ciprofloxacin. As stated in the original post, he had multiple regimens of Ciprofloxacin before his MRI. Not quite the same, as his situation with the prior Ciprofloxacin use, which has shown that it can seriously damage tendons as outlined in this link. https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/meds/a688016.html Art

Replied by Thomas Lewis
currently Flagstaff, AZ
05/21/2020
24 posts
5 out of 5 stars

The Multi Collagen Plus looks like a great product and maybe adding hyaluronic acid powder (sodium hyaluronate) to the Multi Collagen would help with the tendons and ligaments. That's kind of how it happened with my ankle. The ankle probably being mostly tendons and ligaments, 1/4 level tsp (about 440 mg) of BulkSupplements' hyaluronic acid (HA) powder mornings helped my sprained ankle in combo with 500 mg chicken sternum, 1 level tsp of hydrolized bovine collagen powder and 4 calcium hydroxyapatite (CH) capsules per day, which equals 1 gram of calcium total from the CH. HA is sticky, but I just put the HA powder on my tongue and take a sip of water, letting the water soak into the HA for 30 seconds. Then scrape off the gelatinous HA on roof of mouth and swallow it with more water. Even though chicken sternum does have natural HA and chondroitin, it was only after I added the hyaluronic acid powder that my sprained ankle became better, although not perfect but improved. Therefore, I see HA as a lubricant for connective tissue. Chicken sternum doesn't work every time, and didn't work for my shoulders, which are somewhat compromised but usable.

Replied by Art
California
05/22/2020
731 posts

Thomas Lewis, I agree with the HA as I used it for degenerative disc disease (DDD), as explained to us by Ted, many years ago. He had created a formulation that we could make and would last close to a week per mix in the refrigerator. It was adequate for that purpose until I found borax, which resolved my problems for over a decade. I think you are also correct about HA acting as a lubricant, and I believe it also acts as a cushion. For your shoulders, magnesium chloride spray oil or mag oil (MO) may help ease some of the pain if you haven't already tried it as it is prevalent on this forum. Here is a link to a typical product. Read some of the reviews to get an idea of the many uses that people have found for MO. https://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Oil-Spray-STRENGTH-Essential/dp/B01N0KQ9QJ/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=mag+oil&qid=1590084926&sr=8-6 People think it is good to take borax until the pain goes away and then take a break from it. Still, I believe in following Ted's advice of continuous use with weekends off because borax does much more than put arthritis into remission. To get those other benefits, ongoing use may be a way to go. It helps to protect the skeletal structure and helps to ameliorate osteoporosis, and its boron content is useful with vitamin D and vitamin D cofactors in helping to get and keep calcium where it is most beneficial. Art

Replied by Sharon
Minnesota
05/21/2020

Hello Roger, I too have had all those issues and tried all those therapies. But now at 70 yrs, I feel I have found the highlight of my 45+ yrs of research! I found a 20 YR OLD Stem Cell Technology Research Company that just received another 20 yr Patent last week making that now about 100 Int'l patents. It just activates the Stem Cells in your own body using Photobiomodulation/Photo Therapy. This is regenerative, Age Reversing and Ground Breaking technology! (See product for NIRVANA TOO!) Check out the video here: https://lifewaveX39.com/turnonstemcells God Bless You in your regeneration! Sharon

Replied by Art
Cakifornia
05/21/2020
731 posts

Hi again, Roger! I'm back as I said I would be. First, it may be helpful to add vitamin C with the collagen as vitamin C will help by increasing collagen production itself, but the combo is likely to be better than collagen by itself. I will be updating this thread on that point as my friend has added vitamin C to his regimen a little ways back and said he will give me feedback on whether he feels it is helpful very soon. Here are three things you can try if you haven't already tried them. You should be able to use these alongside the collagen supplement without changing the outcome from the collagen and possibly getting some pain relief until the collagen starts taking effect. One product is magnesium oil spray (MO). MO can relieve pain, relax tense muscles, quickly relieve muscle spasms and cramps, reduce inflammation and swelling such as a twisted ankle and also add to your total magnesium intake. It is not the most potent topical pain reliever, but it may help with the pain. Here is a link below and please read some of the reviews to see what all people use MO for. The first item is the simplest, Ibuprofen or Naproxen in soft gel version, whichever you prefer and generic is fine. Put a few squirts of any hand and body lotion of your choice into a shot glass or other small container. Take one softgel and puncture it with a toothpick. Squeeze the oil out of the softgel into the shot glass with the lotion. Use the toothpick or a straw to stir the two ingredients together well. When thoroughly mixed apply to both knees. This will confine the Naproxen or Ibuprofen to the area where pain relief is needed without having a negative impact on the digestive system and will allow you to reach local tissue concentrations that are as high or higher than the max dosage for either product taken orally. Wash your hands well when done. https://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Oil-Spray-STRENGTH-Essential/dp/B01N0KQ9QJ/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=mag+oil&qid=1590084926&sr=8-6 https://www.swansonvitamins.com/natrabio-the-arnica-rub-4-fl-oz-cream Lastly you can try making a saturated solution of MSM in water and applying topically as needed. If you decide to try any of these, I would start with the Naproxen or Ibuprofen. MO would be next unless you already have it in which case I would try it first, because even if it is not helpful enough for the pain, you will probably find it useful for other issues. The second product is a homeopathic blend and to me, has slightly better pain relieving quality than MO, but is not as versatile as MO. The third item, MSM is kind of hit and miss and some people find it very pain relieving and others such as myself, get little if any pain relief from MSM. If you have any questions, just post them and I will get back to you. Art

Replied by Roger
United States
05/22/2020

Thank you Art, I do have some MO and have tried it on my knees without much relief. I still spray it on legs daily. I'm also taking a lot of magnesium in supplement form. Time will tell. That is a great idea about mixing Advil with lotion, I will give that a try. I do take MSM daily and have used a lotion containing MSM, but have not tried the saturated MSM, that might be worth a try. I have tried borax for a while off and on over the last couple years. Never seemed to help much. I'll try the other two items you mentioned and see if that can give me a little relief. Thanks.

Replied by Art
California
05/22/2020
731 posts

Roger,

If the topical naproxen or ibuprofen is not enough relief, do not order the homeopathic cream as it is approximately equivalent to those two in terms of pain relief, but a more natural alternative that some people prefer. Myself, I find naproxen more effective than ibuprofen, but I am allergic to naproxen so I can't use it.

Let me know how you do with the naproxen cream.

Art


Updates

Posted by Art (California) on 10/11/2020 731 posts
5 out of 5 stars

My friend is doing very good, but I wanted to mention my 80 something year old neighbor who I mentioned this specific collagen supplement to and she said she wanted to try it to help her joints. I saw her yesterday and we talked for awhile. I could see she was moving like a much younger woman, but it was her hair that really caught my attention! 😲😲😲

Yes, her hair looked like it belonged on a 30 year old!!! It had not only filled in her thinning areas, it was thick, full and dense! She was thrilled and told me how she had just been to her hairdresser and she was shocked at the difference! Her hairdresser immediately wanted to know what my neighbor had done and she said she started using a specific collagen supplement that I had suggested for her. Her hairdresser wanted to know exactly what it was!

My neighbor went on to tell me that her friend was also amazed at the change and she wanted to try it too!

Overall, this product is producing pretty amazing results for more than just torn ligaments and tendons!

Art


Where to Buy

Posted by RSW (OH) on 11/04/2020
5 out of 5 stars

Hi Art,

I have been using the collagen supplement you recommended to strengthen tendons since my shoulder had been hurting and seemed to be getting worse. Anyway, I bought it on Amazon as you posted, but when I went to buy another bottle, I went directly to the site of the maker to give him my business, and he (was, is? ) offering two free bottles, postage paid, for a positive review. I received mine today. Just wanted to pass this along because supplement costs can add up and I was just speechless at this offer. Thanks for suggesting this collagen. RSW

Replied by Art
California
11/04/2020
731 posts

Hi RSW,

Yes, they had been doing that, but very recently I recommended it to another friend and they did not offer them the other two free bottles. They're over 22,000 reviews now, so they probably figure they have enough reviews.

When they asked me for a review, they did not say it had to be a positive review, just that a review was required in order to get the other 2 bottles and they always delivered the extra bottles to all of the people I have recommended it to up until this friend that I last recommended it to.

On a related note, a friend that I recommended it to had been taking a popular collagen supplement for years and never got any benefit from it, but this one thickened her hair to a level of a much younger woman, but the first friend I recommended it to saw no difference in his hair, but he did get a tremendous benefit for his torn tendons and ligaments, which is remarkable!

Art



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