Enzymes and Glucosamine
Having recently been told that I had degenerative arthritis that might require back surgery, my immediate mission was to avoid the surgery. And, I have so far done that. Without going into great detail, I began to research and finally decided to take two items in fairly heavy doses compared to the recommended dose on the labels. Enzymes and Glucosamine. Important! All supplements are not created equal!!I will be happy to share the exact product names and amounts with you, but cannot place them on this website. There are specific proteolytic enzymes that can be very helpful. There are also some simple exercises that can help relieve stress on the spinal joints.
Let me say that I have no connection with any supplement company or reseller. I purchase my supplements from a local health food store.
The supplements that I use are these: Glucosamine Sulfate (crustacean shellfish) 1500 mg. Celadrin Fatty Acid Complex 1500 mg. (providing 780 mg of esterified fatty acids) MSM (methylsulfmethane) 200 mg. The serving size for the above is 4 caps and I took 6 caps AM and 6 caps PM (note, the three items above are in one capsule)
Proteolytic Enzymes Serving size 1 tab (all items below contained in one tab) Pancreatin 8X 100 mg. Papain 30,000 USP/mg 60 mg. Serratia peptidease 200,000 SPU/g 26 mg. Bromelain 1,200 SPU/g 25 mg. I began with 2 tabs 3X daily between meals (minimum 1 hour before or after). Then moved to 3 tabs, 3X daily, then to 4 tabs , 3X daily and would have gone to five but pain began to subside. Stayed at this level until pain was greatly diminished. Now I take (total) 4 glucosamine per day and about 6 proteolytic enzymes per day. As I go forward, I will probably further reduce the amount taken but will continue.
Additionally, I checked my ph level and used AVC and baking soda to maintain a 7.0 ph level. I am doing oil pulling but cannot at this time really give a qualified report on oil pulling.
I do E-Cise 2 Static Back and a bit more which may not show up on the website. The exercises were important to recovery. Yes, when I first tried them, I probably turned a bit pale. However, with time they are amazingly helpful and become less "noticeable". If there is interest, I will give more details later.
A personal comment. I am thankful for doctors, medicine, supplements, natural remedies and of course EARTH CLINIC. Most importantly I am thankful for the Internet as without it... I would probably be at this time recovering from back surgery!
(Buffalo Grove, Il, Us)
I was following this protocol with the great success for about a week. Thanks a lot! Pain greatly diminished, but walking is still very difficult. Would like to know how long do I need to stay on this protocol? I did not have to go to 4 enzymes table 3X a day. I am taking 3 tabets 3X, but would like to know when it is appropriate to lower the disage and for how long I should take smaller dosages.
Thankyou, Art Solbrig for your hopegiving article on spinal stenosis being helped by homeopathy . My severely " stenosed " spine would require too much HARDWARE on anchoring sites that would likely degenerate. I so look forward to trying the Hyland's calc. flour. tablets and the Hekla Lava, about $18.00 at Amazon.
Your scholarship, your well-crafted articles, the convenient, easy links you provide all point to the great humanity you direct at relieving suffering .
ATTA BOY ART!!!
Wow, that was very nice of you to say! You made my day!
I didn't mention it, but my friend had the "hardware" from the surgery in the form of metal pins and screws. I remember seeing his x-ray and it looked so out of place to see screws and pins in the x-ray. When I first looked at it, I thought he was pulling a joke on me! They were quite real though.
Regarding what I post, I can't remember how many times I have seen people post useful remedies on Earth Clinic, but leave out important information, such as dosing, brand used, timing and where to buy! I try to include as much of this type of information as possible so that down the road, people will be able to get enough information from the post to actually be able to implement whatever the remedy is. I see quite a few times on EC where people reply to a post that is months or years old with a question, but the original poster rarely replies, so including the pertinent information is useful and important.
Dan, thank you again for the day brightener!
Mama to Many, Bill, or Anyone with a possible solution,
I have severe Spinal Stenosis for about 8 years with constant numbness in arms, hands, feet, legs and buttock areas. I think I have tried every protocol on the internet. Ex. coral calcuim protocol, high doses of vitamin C protocol, hekla lava protocol, tried taking 1/4 tsp boron in 1 pint of water( a very small dose daily maybe a 1/8 to 1/4 tsp)and probably a few others. If it is on the internet I have tried it.
However with every one of these treatments I get bad leg cramps and have to stop them. Someone on here suggested taking potassium...I took 2 99mg tablets daily... still got the cramps. I have taken 2000mg magnesium daily with the potassium...still cramps.
ANY suggestions or HELP would be greatly appreciated!!!!
I worked in MD's office for 11 yrs...one of the only things he recommended for leg cramps was Calcium Lactate by Standard process. (I believe he suggested 3 per day and up to 6 if needed) IF (and it was rare, but did come up) the Calcium Lactate didn't work as desired, Standard process also makes a Cataplex F supplement that would help the Calcium Lactate work better. Honestly we sold out of the stuff every week. (he's an MD who is very holistic and has a large variety of supplements in his office...this one just worked the best, so I can't comment on any other brand)
Hope you get some relief!
So sorry to hear of you situation. As this is a really great place to come to find solutions for things it is also not always the answer.
Have you had procedures done to tell you how narrow your spinal column has become or if you have bone spurs?
This attached site has just a brief view on what you need to find out before you start to try any remedies. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/spinal-stenosis/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20352966 ................
It is a very short read. Look for options other then supplements. Perhaps the Pilates table, to be done under supervision of a medical Dr. perhaps sports medicine, AFTER full diagnoses if there is really a chance it could help.
You could try castor oil hot packs to just ease some of the discomfort, may or may not help. It all boils down to getting a full diagnoses of what is going on first. Something like this you do not want to take a chance of making things worse. Yes! Even an operation may be needed (not always avoidable) to do what may be needed first. I am sure this is not what you want to hear but this is a serious situation, one you do not want to mess with. I am for helping ones self homeopathically, I do it all the time. However I have had to sometimes go see western Dr's., to get a proper diagnoses first so I can find the proper homeopathic solution, or even different type of exercise to help. I hope you do find a solution soon and get you comfort to some extent.
All the best to you. Dee
Snyder, so very sorry you are suffering this way. With your symptoms becoming this bad, have you consulted with a spine surgeon? You may need to have your spinal canal widened surgically to relieve pressure on the compressed nerves. The sooner you talk with a surgeon, the better, since nerves are slow to heal and you want to address this promptly before a crisis occurs. My father had bad spinal stenosis so I know all about it and how dangerous it can become. Medicines and various remedies can help for a while, but with severe compression, you may need surgery. Wishing you all the very best.
Sorry to hear of your predicament. Have you tried salt? When you get cramps, it's usually due to an imbalance in electrolytes. Magnesium chloride on the skin could help as when magnesium is ingested, it's poorly absorbed. I have found if potassium and magnesium fail, it may be salt you need to stop cramps. Make sure it's a clean sea salt.
1. Leg Cramps Homeopathic Remedy...main ingredient: Quinine...You also can drink quinine water.
2. Chiropractic adjustments...
So sorry for your pain
Eric Berg on youtube has a nice teaching on how low K-2 causes this condition.
If you are looking for potassium, try drinking V-8 Juice, low sodium. You will get 1250 mg. per 12 oz. can. This has solved my low potassium problem. I am convinced that many health issues are connected to low potassium/potassium imbalances. Please try this natural remedy. More potassium than any supplement. Our daily requirement is 4 x this amount! Bless you, hope you find relief soon.
I would try to build up the cartilage in the spine with one 500 mg chicken sternum (CS) capsule, mornings. The bottle says that chicken sternum naturally has type 2 collagen, chondroitin and hyaluronic acid.
CS capsules are sold at SwansonVitamins.com and PipingRock.com.
I have seen one woman cancel her hip replacement after 6 months of taking chicken sternum, and one man cancel his knee replacement during the same time.
Another 87 year old woman had terrible knee pain that she wore a brace for. Taking chicken sternum fixed her knee in 4 months.
Currently in my mid-60's, my knees were loose in their sockets in around 2010. I started taking chicken sternum capsules and in 4 months, I could feel that my knee cartilage had filled in, with improvement starting in a few days.
I also had torn something next to my spine when lifting a 7 gallon water jug, so my back felt unhinged but without pain. At some point in I would say 3 to 5 years of starting the chicken sternum, my back for the most part healed, where it does not feel unhinged.
Instead of chicken sternum, mornings with water I now take a level measuring teaspoon of hydrolized chicken collagen (HCC) from BulkSupplements.com, because I assume it also has the type 2 collagen in it which I believe builds cartilage.
My shoulder joints, especially the right shoulder, have not healed and feel like they want to pull out of their sockets, but my sprained ankle has healed for the most part while taking hydrolized bovine collagen with it's type 1 and 3 collagens which are said to repair tendons and ligaments.
I did heal a sprained knee in 3 months by taking a packet per day of knox gelatin, but I was in my mid-20's, so this new collagen product also looks interesting to me which apparently uses a new form of gelatin. I heard the radio infomercial for it:
Good luck with building up your spine. I also take 2 capsules twice per day of Swanson's or PipingRock's NOW brand "Calcium Hydroxyapatite Caps, " which is the kind of calcium that the body uses. This quantity of capsules keeps my formerly sensitive teeth from decaying or forming cavities, so I assume it maintains my bones as well.
If chicken collagen works then Chicken Bone Broth should work even better, it has all the different types of collagen and additional nutrients and can be enhanced by adding various herbs - spices. Go to YouTube and look up some recipes.
Use the feet as it contains the most collagen.
Bone broth has been used for centuries & recent testimony given to the fact that it does help neurological disorders, and the people involved had already been in the care of conventional MD`s but nothing they tried worked, like so many other things.
You might also try a simple salt tablet if you can take them, you can cut it in half if needed.
This has helped with a heart condition I have A-Fib after the first use my heart beat became much smoother almost normal & no muscle cramps, I could also make it to the bathroom without leaving a trail either & go much less, I have been sleeping sounder as well, I don`t wake up during the night.
A side note when solders were in Vietnam they had to take a Salt Tablet everyday & a anti malaria pill Hydroxychloroquine every day to prevent dying from dehydration & malaria . In the western USA desert region the people with the lowest sodium levels always die first from the heat despite what conventional MD`s say, or MSM, you can fact check this yourself.
(Colorado Springs, CO)
Spinal Stenosis Cure that absolutely works, never do back surgery, the doctors are not good enough yet and they will ruin your nerves terribly! Dr. Debra Katchen, MD and homeopathic doctor wrote an article “Aging Spines Feel Young Again” (unfortunately, homeopathy.org makes you become a member $ 75 to get into their website for the article but I use this remedy so I put it in my phone. Here it is, dirt cheap, need to do for six months and then I would do it every few years to keep the stenosis away, there is a lady on Youtube who also did it and has a testimonial how great it worked...
Take one tablet of strength 30C HEKLA LAVA pills in a 6 oz glass of distilled or purified water, let it dissolve, put in fridge and daily take 2 teaspoons (am and on preferably) and in addition, take four tablets under your tongue of CALCAREA FLUORICA strength 6X once a day for 6 months. (Amazon, iherb, Swanson, Vitacost to compare prices, there is a company brand Hyland in these small like chapstick containers is pretty popular but other companies have those pills). You will start feeling better about 3 months in but continue for the 6 months. Really, really works!!
Spinal Stenosis and Bone Spurs; I was diagnosed with those on my lumbar spine. Doctors could not help me. I did some research and found several items to use. I am taking Serrapetase 80.000 spu 2 pills a day, plus Heckla Lava 5 pellets a day, Calcarea Fluor 4 pellets a day and Dr. Christopher complete bone and tissue formula.
The pain before was excrutiating and 10 days later is 80 less and I believe I am on the way to be cured. Before that I went to 2 different chiropractors and had accupuncture and did not help. Two of those supplements are homeopathic meds very good.
I am now 80 % better. I just want to correct myself.
I've been diagnosed with Cervical Spinal Stenosis at C5&6, a couple of bulging disks and osteoarthritis. The pain is intense, radiating from my shoulder down my arm, into my elbow, wrists and muscles into my fingers. The muscles are tight, the joints ache and my fingers and hand become pins and needles, swollen and feel like their being slammed In a door. I can't make a fist. The pain is into the bone.
I have found tremendous relief using MSM 1000mg 3x/day. Grapeseed extract-200mg 3xs daily and Wobensyme N which is an enzyme formula to address inflammation and joint support, 4 tablets three times a day or as needed. Aspirin, acetaminophen, ibuprofen and naproxen were completely ineffective. With these three I am almost pain free!
i no longer sleep on my side, I support my neck with a neck roll. My plan to avoid surgery is this: yoga, swimming and masssage, hot castor oil packs applied to my neck. I recently discovered Lions Mane might help with nerve regeneration and heard that Rose Hip Vital might help too.
thanks EarthClinic! I love this website.
Udating my progress, MSM has been a God send! I've quit the Grapeseed extract. I believe the Wobensyme was causing my blood pressure to spike. I just found it about Serrapetase and I'm going to include it and glucosamine and condroitin along with Lysine and Black seed oil.
Loleese, let me know how you do, I started high doses of MSM, glucosamine, Vit C and B vitamins. Doc wants to do surgery which bothers me. I don't have pain but tingling. My stenosis is quite severe in the same area yours is. Also going with prayer.
Hi Cheryl, I am doing well with the MSM and some neck stretching exercises recommended by my chiropractor and my osteopath. Yoga is wonderful! The castor oil packs felt good but they are hard to keep up with. I hope you are doing well and can avoid surgery. I'll say a prayer for you today. Let me know how you do.
i quito the glucosamine and condroitin Because I learned it could elevate blood pressure. I have had significant improvement with pain and I beleive it was the MSM but I have referred others to it and it didn't help them. Each person is different. I can stop the tingling within seconds by stretching my neck, dropping my chin and stretching out the back of my neck and holding for eight long breaths or by doing the downward dog position in yoga.
Loleese here, four years later. No surgeries for me! I have changed things over the years - MSM is wonderful but I quit taking it and the other supplements a long time ago. The pain came back though not near as bad. It flared when working or doing things with my hands. I stretch my neck out regularly-gentle stretches to the side and front only. Bending forward and stretching really help too. I recently began experimenting with essential oils and have found immediate and lasting relief by using Young Living RC (which is a blend of Spruce, Cypress, and three types of Eucalyptus oils) and Idaho balsam fir. Two parts of Caster oil to one part each of the YL oils in a roller bottle down the back and front of my neck. Twice a day- Before bed and upon rising~ immediate relief. I use the neck roll pillow to sleep. I couldn't keep up the castor oil packs. They are messy and time consuming but do feel good.
Last year my husband was suffering from a chronic case of spinal stenosis. Bone on bone in his lower back and severe osteoarthritis. He was told by one chiro to go get back surgery. Then as luck would have it he saw another chiro who specialises in this painful condition. I also got him on to Glucosamine/ Chondroiton/ MSM powder supplement. Plus Rose Hip Vital powder supplement. He also takes one high dose krill oil a day and co Q 10 enzyme plus 2 tablespoons of ACV with manuka honey morning and night. His condition is at least 80% improved on last year. He also has an inversion bed that is used occasionally to keep the joints open to allow blood flow and enable healing. I truly believe this combination of natural things has made all the difference and I can still see gradual improvement as time goes by.
Hi there how are you? I also have these conditions in my L4/L5/S1 areas along with having scoliosis and mild spinal bifida as well as osteoarthritis, stenosis in the lumnar areas mentioned above plus in my neck too :-( sadly for the disk compressed and came away from the bone that bad my sciatic nerve got bad damaged and I needed the spinal lumber fusion done back in nov 2012 when I was 29! :-( we managed to hold off for few years but during the nearly 4 year wait, I had 2 children, sadly after them my back for that weak it pretty much had a break! And coz it was bad break close to cord, I needed surgery sooner than later. I only waited 1-2weeks for the call to say I was booked for nov, we were in end of sep. Hubby sorted out his resign at work, Nov came and off I went for surgery at the PA hospital in brisbane. They did say I didnt have to have the surgery as there were alot of risk so it was understandable if I said no but then I would had to prepare myself n family I would be in wheelchair in 6 months. But I took the risk for my children.
They ended up doing more than they said, they did 2 rods, 6screws, removed bad disk, put in plates, did bone graft to help with fusion ect sadly not all pain was gone, I still had less than before which I slowly decreased the amount of meds ect :-) but sadly not long after do physio I still had too much weakness and pain in my left hip and leg which turned out I had a bad tear in the hip joint!! Which was operated on 2'years ago!! :-( I still getting pain today and still have weakness although I been exercising and going physio. So 1 prob I still get pain and it is worse than before!!!
Back to the bone graft, now keep in mind spinal op was.done 4 years ago, well sadly the bone graft they did had failed!! :-( so now I have 2 fractures in one of the rods and 2 screws!!! I get alot of pain coz of this they put all meds back up and made couple changes!! :-( now we moved to airlie beach from brisbane before knowing this has happened in my back. We moved up due to warmer weather all year round, better life style, new environment n better lol nicer people, better school kids are 5&6 they love the freedom, less people, the outside life and know there more to do and see. Loving school as they get to do more ie go on little end of term rewards and so much more, laid back life style is perfect and when I go into airlie I am relaxed as I arrive and soon I see the water and beach ect I am in heaven and already feel much better. Our family relationship and our marriage is so much better n happier than before so moving up defo has helped. But sad thing I back to square 1 pretty much in regards to waiting to all specialist but at least it wont be as long as the first time round. I know I need surgery again but I not sure if I will or want to coz I more scared this time as it already failed once before so whats the reason of it not doing it again??? I am glad I not alone, nore are you guys and thank you for sharing your story and thoughts too. :-) god bless you both and hope things improve soon. Many blessings. :-)
An MRI 5 years ago showed no more cushion between two lowest disks after years of ranching. When I broke ribs from a fall, I began sleeping in a recliner so I could get up. I discovered that I could just stand up and walk across the room instead of hobbling down the hall. The lack of continuous pressure on that area of my back because of the gap where the chair bends has made all the difference in pain and stiffness. In contrast, my walking buddy, a retired nurse, has had three back surgeries and still fights continual pain. I just got a new bed... A new recliner!
Quick Guide For Spinal Stenosis
There really isn't an explanation in this section to really help guide people with this problem so here it is.
Here is a Quick brief guide to underlying issues with Spinal Stenosis. This allows people to zero in on what they need to focus on. Spinal stenosis has many root causes since many things can impinge on the nerves.
Spinal Stenosis has at least 4 different causes. You must ball park what the origin is first. These are the things that can cause compression on the nerves along spinal column.
1) Bone Spurs. This is the most common cause which is related to osteoarthritis. Behind that is what Ted describes as a "calcium metabolism" issue. I agree with him.
Bone spurs are simply calcium deposits that did not integrate into the bone properly. As the deposits build up, they can cause compression on the nerves.
These calcium deposits need to be dissolved. Just like it took a while for deposits to be created, it will take some time to be dissolved.
Nerve pain is an outgrowth from this issue. For short to intermediate term, I would suggest seeing a chiropractor to help manage pain. They will not address the root cause of the problem but may help with pain. They may say they can address the root problem but I wouldn't hold my breath.
For intermediate and long term, while the chiropractor helps manage the pain, you need to grab the bull by the horns and address the bone spurs with nutrients.
Without knowing the exact cause of the calcium metabolism dysfunction, you will need to go thru some trial and error.
Some of the supplements that should definitely include magnesium, vitamin k2 mk7 and vitamin d3.
There is a lot of information about vitamin k2 mk7 and D3 in other places. How much k2 I can't say. Minimum should be 200mcg but it could be taken in higher doses. Take it with food and D3.
Dosage for vitamin D3 could be 4000 to 10000. I would take at least 2000 IU per 100 mcg of vitamin K2 MK7
Excerpt from Mercola"The optimal amounts of vitamin K2 are still under investigation, but it seems likely that 180 to 200 micrograms of vitamin K2 should be enough to activate your body's K2-dependent proteins to shuttle the calcium where it needs to be, and remove it from the places where it shouldn't. "
Magnesium is one of the prime nutrients used to prevent bone spurs. You should experiment and use different types of magnesium. Magnesium Chloride in the best. It comes in tablets and magnesium oil. Magnesium oil can irritate the skin but I have found putting it on the hands and forearms and rubbing it hard and creating friction the best way for me.Magnesium chloride in tablet can help increase stomach acid as a side benefit. I would also take high absorption magnesium glycinate since it doesn't cause diarrhea and can take it with or without food. You have to figure out a way to increase the magnesium in your body.
There is a lot of conflicting information regarding calcium so if you have specific problems like cramps or other things then take enough to resolve those symptoms. I would keep calcium dosage 600 mg or less otherwise if you think you need it.
There are other things like boron and silica that Ted has suggested.
here is an excerpt I pulled from somewhere. Notice the inclusion of Boron and Silica.
"Taking a Calcium supplement which is combined with Magnesium, Silica, Vitamin D and Boron are also recommended to improve the absorption and utilisation of Calcium. The following are the best forms of Calcium for bone health: Calcium citrate, Calcium phosphate, Calcium aspartate, Calcium chelate"
2) Soft tissue problems like herniated discs, tumors, thickened ligaments.
If you don't have the other three problems then you must investigate this area. You have to narrow down what the problem could be from these and proceed from there. Herniated discs can be addressed with Biocell.
3) Fractures or dislocations. This is an injury problem. This will unlikely cause for most people.
4) Birth defects. I don't have any knowledge in this area. This will unlikely cause for most people.
Hope this helps people.
I suffer from spinal stenosis causing severe low back pain and sciatic nerve pain. Since taking MSM my pain has almost completely resolved. I have only minimal pain after long periods of walking. I take 2000 milligrams of MSM twice a day. I'm extremely pleased with the improvement in my pain after taking MSM, and I've only been taking it for one month.
The only side effect I have experienced is a change in my sleep pattern, waking every morning around 4:00-5:00 am with difficulty going back to sleep. I'm going to try stopping the nighttime dose and try taking the second dose after lunch to see if that resolves the problem. Also, I am allergic to sulfa drugs but have not experienced any skin related side effects with MSM. While it is a possibility that resolution of my pain is coincidental, I'm not willing to give it up in order to find out. If my pain returns while on MSM, then I'll know. I'll keep you posted.
Serrapeptase is great stuff!! BEFORE I KNEW not to have any spinal surgery, the doctors are not good enough yet....I learned from a forum of people that had cancer in the throat and had to have the cancer removed, the pain was horrible and narcotics was not giving them enough relief. They said Serrapeptase was the only thing that worked.
I had spinal stenosis so they cleared the gunk out, the 1st 2 weeks were fine BUT when the fibroblasts/scar tissue building started the pain was overwhelming, the inflammation attacked my vocal cords and thyroid, could not talk without crying, it hurt sooooo bad!
The Serrapeptase calmed everything down like nothing happened, wonderful!
Anyone that has SPINAL STENOSIS where their are arms and/or legs are starting to hurt, DO NOT HAVE SURGERY, just take a couple cheap pills and it will all dissolve in about 6 months. Go read the short article by Dr. Debra Katchen, MD, “Aging Spines Feel Young Again”, she figured out how to dissolve the gunk and testimonials galore.
I gave a friend who is in their 70s the remedy and he started feeling better by the end of the 2nd month but make sure you take the Hekkla and Fluor. Cal. the full 6 months!
Hi Allyson, please tell us how much Serrapeptase worked for you? Thanks!