Cure Canine Heart Murmur: Natural Pet Remedies

Last Modified on Oct 14, 2014

Home Remedies for Pets with Heart Murmurs

Heart murmurs are abnormal sounds or vibrations heard in the heart and caused by blood flow; and this is a disorder that affects both humans and pets alike. Usually only audible by stethoscope, a heart murmur is usually due to conditions outside the heart like turbulent blood flow rather than the heart itself; but can be caused by narrowing or leaking heart valves. Heart murmur in dogs can range from simple to grave, with symptoms like poor appetite, weight loss, breathing problems; and are more serious when you pet has fainting spells and a weak pulse, and an underlying cause must be determined. Heart murmur in cats can stunt the growth of kittens.

A heart murmur can be indicative of a number of illnesses: anemia, hyperthyroidism, heartworm, heart valve failure, heart inflammation, and the narrowing of veins and arteries. Treatment shouldn’t wait, especially if the heart murmur is audible without a stethoscope or can be felt by hand.

Treat Your Pet’s Heart Murmur Naturally

On this page you can find user-submitted home remedies to treat heart murmurs. Earth Clinic readers have suggested the use of a number of diet supplements such as milk thistle, krill oil, D-ribose, L-arginine, ester-C, magnesium, and carnitine to remedy heart murmurs in pets. Let us know what you try from Earth Clinic to treat heart murmurs in pets. Know of a remedy not listed here? Don’t hesitate to share your story with us!

Additional Pages of Interest:
Canine Congestive Heart Failure

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Most Popular Remedies:

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User Reviews



Diet and Supplements   1  0   

Posted by Giovanni (Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, USA) on 04/05/2013

[YEA]  My dog Bella (11 year old, 10lbs, Shih Tzu) was diagnosed with CHF, Mitral Valve Disease with a # 5 murmur about 4 months ago. The Vet recommend we take her to a cardiologist, and the cardiologist immediately put her on Vetmedin, Benazepril, Furosemide, and Spironolactone. We saw some improvement for 2 months. I hated that she is on these Meds because the bad side effects.

While only the prescribed Meds, she still did not want to eat and each meal was a fight to get the food down. She was coughing badly, she had little energy, and looked very frail.

One day I came home and walked in the door. Bella got overly excited to see me come home. She was wagging her tail doing her little dance and barking as usual and then suddenly she collapsed to floor. She started convulsing and howling. She was in distress, her gums turned white and she felt cold. I thought she was having a heart attack. I thought it was truly the end and that she was going to die in my arms that day.

I rushed her to the VET. Bella thankfully pulled through what I later found out was a fainting spell. The Vet told me that she would have maybe 6-12 months to live and that she might require full time oxygen treatments to make her more comfortable and not to let her get excited at all as sudden death was a possibility. I disconnected my door bell, I prevented her from playing with my other two dogs. I did everything to keep her clam but she still looked and felt miserable. I was not going to sit helplessly watching her deteriorate.

After many hours / days researching on internet, talking to Dr's, and other dog owners about what "works". About 2 months ago, I found "in my opinion", a course of treatment that has unquestionably worked for my dog. I am now really convinced that she can live a long "normal" life if I keep her on this course of treatment.

Bella has significantly more energy, and has not fainted since starting this treatment. On this treatment, her breathing rate has drastically improved and is now 16 BPM while resting, before while only on the MEDS it was averaging 30 BPM. Bella's coughing has almost completely stopped (about 95% improvement).

We started by changing her diet to only freshly prepared foods that we make at home. NO MORE STORE BOUGHT DOG FOODS OR TREATS AT ALL.

Bella is a very picky eater so we had to experiment with what she would and would not eat. Any type of brown rice, carets, celery, apples, parsley, cucumber, is a no go! She will refuse to even look at the food bowl if it's in there, no matter how well you think you may have disguised it.

We discovered she loves ground turkey, and boiled chicken breast (all no salt or very low sodium). We mix in a heaping tablespoon of baked (microwaved) sweet potato in the turkey or chicken along with a teaspoon of olive oil, and a tablespoon of Quaker Oats (the quick one minute oatmeal in the big can with zero sodium) add some warm water too to the mix and serve. We also make sure she has access to lots of fresh water at all times.

Fair warning, the products below are not inexpensive. My dog is like my child, so I will do what it takes to keep her healthy. I researched each supplement to make sure I felt I was giving her the absolute best quality and best "form" of that particular supplement.

Here is an example; In my research I found It is best to use Propionyl –L-carnitine to treat heart disease and not Acetyle-L-carnitine or L-carnitine. Check the link out http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/carnitine-l-000291.htm

Below is exactly what I give to my 10lb Shih Tzu. Please check with your VET before giving to your dog. I found the best prices are on Amazon for everything listed below.

  • D-Ribose - By Doctor' Best. 1 heaping scoop, (twice a day sprinkle on food).
  • Ubiquinol QH-absorb (CoQ10) - By Jarrow Formulas 200mg, (1 pill twice a day)
  • Propionyl-L-Carnitine HCI – By Jarrow Formulas 750 mg, (1 pill twice a day)
  • Magnesium Taurate – By Cardiovascular Research -125 mg, (1 pill a day)
  • Mega Red Extra Strength Krill Oil, - By Schiff, 500mg (1 pill twice a day)
  • L-Arginine - By Jarrow Formulas, 1000 mg (1 pill a day)
  • Colon Green Fiber Supplement with Probiotics and Enzymes, - By Futurebiotics (Sprinkle 2 pills twice a day)
  • Esther C Vegetarian Capsules, - By American Health 500mg (1 pill twice a day)
  • Milk Thistle, 200mg (1 pill twice a day)
  • Senior Vitality Multi Vitamin, - By Optimal Pet (1 pill a day)

My dog is still on conventional medication (Vetmedin, Benazepril, & Furosemide), we weaned her off of the Spironolactone, and I hope to soon be able to wean her off all of these meds soon. I'm just waiting for her next cardiologist appointment in 2 months. I'm hoping the Dr. Can see and measure her improvement with another ultrasound.

Let me tell you this combo in my opinion, WORKS as I have seen the night/day difference in my dog. She now has the energy to play and run again. The best part is I have my dog back greeting me once again at the front door getting overly excited doing her dance and barking. Day by day she seems to continue to improve. It may not work for your dog but certainly is worth a try.

Posted by Shannon
Houston, Tx, Usa
06/07/2013
3 Posts
My ten year old Silky Terrier dog was diagnosed yesterday with a heart murmur. Number two on the scale. She has no outward symptoms such as coughing, wheezing or anything. She is very active and runs up and down stairs. Her weight is about 10 pounds. What can I give her to reverse or stop any progression of the murmur? And in what amounts for her weight?
Posted by Deborah
Chino Valley, Az
06/10/2013
Hi Shannon, Lots of information is available on this site re: heart murmurs in dogs. See the link - http://www.earthclinic.com/pets/heart-murmur.html

Sounds like some supportive care would be just the thing for your pup. Murmurs can definitely be dealt with in so many cases.

Good luck! Deborah

Posted by Om
Hope, B.c., Canada
06/15/2013
to Steve Lewington from Wangi Wangi:

Please give Coq10 from the health food store. That should support his little heart. In addition give Hawthorn tincture. Adjust the dosage for the tincture as per your judgement.

As a food and to strengthen his body give a small Teaspoon Royal jelly or Manuka honey or just plain organic honey in a drop of water, diluted, by syringe. Do this about hourly. Any internal bacteria will be killed by these. Please hug him for me. Om

Posted by Om
Hope, B.c., Canada
06/15/2013
Oh and I meant to say to get off those drugs!

Use your judgement and adjust if necessary. The natural remedies, such as hawthorn tincture, have been used for centuries. Ubiquinol can well be taken along with it.

The danger of chemical drugs and over medication must be kept in mind. Often these chemical drugs will stand in the way of improvement with safe herbs. If diuretics are necessary, use tea made with the whole dandelion plant. It will not have the side effect as the chemicals. Chemical diuretics remove valuable minerals/vits. from the body. Stinging nettle is also a good diuretic and will improve his mood while removing toxins. Om

Posted by Steve Lewington
Wangi Wangi, Nsw, Australia
06/15/2013
2 Posts
Hi all, I would love some advice please as I have read all through these emails and am unsure how to get started healing our little fellow.

He is a 12 year old mini foxy cross chihuha around 6 pounds/

We have just got him home 2 days ago, from hospital, as he had trouble breathing , a cough and was weak.

They had him on oxygen, his heart rate was around 140 bpm, and his breathing around 80 bpm. These have come down a bit, heart is around 130 and breathing 40 bpm.

The vets have given him days to weeks to live. He is on Flusapex(diuretic) 0.5ml 2x per day

Vetmedin(Pimobendan) 1.25mg per day and Fortekor(Benazepril) 1.25 mg per day.

I want to start helping him to heal.

So far I have given him 1 Hawthorn Berry tablet, But split into 3 doses over the day, the brand is Mediherb. I have bought Cayenne, LCarnitine, D Ribose, Calcium Lactate, Krill oil with Astaxanthin, Ubiquinol 100 mg but am unsure of the amount to give him, eg do I weight the powders, and was scared of any interaction with his drugs. I asked the vet, but they couldn't understand why I would want to give him any more than the prescription drugs. We do not have any holistic vets , I did contact one who would do a consult over the phone, but they could not see him.

Could someone please help me put all this into perspective as I have so many questions, and cannot find the answers.

Steve

Posted by Steve
Wangi, Lake Macquarie Nsw
06/16/2013
2 Posts
Thanks for your input Om.

I have started Teddie on Ubiquinol, DRibose, Hawthorn and Cayenne, but only small dosages. This amounts to two capsules. The Ubiquinol and D Ribose in one, and a small amount of Cayenne (100mg) in the other. The Hawthorn is from a pill cut into 3rds. I have been giving him this spaced out over the day and away from his medications. I am scared to just cut his medication as I do not want to lessen his chances, and the Vetmedin, gives him a lot of relief.

Last night we thought we were going to lose him, as he was struggling breathing, and seemed in pain.

He seemed a lot stronger during the day, and was walking around quite confidently.

Steve

Posted by Diane Cartwright
Modesto, Ca
04/19/2014
My 14 year old Llasa/Cocka/Poo mix has a significant heart murmur, a 4 I think the vet said, and was sleeping most of the day, lethargic, coughing and lacking energy. I take him to an alternative/integrative practice in Oakland, about 2 hours from here where the vet does acupuncture and prescribed Standard Process Canine Cardiac Support. It helps a bit. With her approval I also added non-alcohol liquid hawthorn berry, milk thistle extract, fish oil (not too much) and 30 mg. CO-Q 10 twice per day.

I also found Hampl Homeopathics in Australia with homeopathic remedies for the heart and a natural diuretic which are mixed in filtered hot water, cooled and gently syringed into Fritzi's mouth. He's a little resistant but it's worth the effort. Not long after getting this combination he's running both in the house and on his walks and acts like a puppy again. The CO-Q 10 is mostly present in the heart and other muscles so supplementing is very important as it decreases as we grow older.

Last vet check shows an improvement in his murmur and no fluid in his lungs. He's sleeping less and looks happy again. I only use conventional drugs as a last resort. Find a good holistic vet and you'll both be healthier and happier for a long, long time.

Posted by Cheryl
Santa Clarita, Ca
06/05/2014
Just thought I'd mention that since Steve from Wangi Wangi was told to add CoQ10 to his dog's diet even after he said he gave the dog Ubiquinol I thought I'd mention that Ubiquinol delivers a more bioavailable—or body ready form of CoQ10 (Coenzyme Q10). CoQ10 is an important nutrient found throughout the body, but your body must break it down into a usable form. That usable form is ubiquinol, and over 90% of the CoQ10 found in your body is stored in the form of ubiquinol, a “ready-to-go reserve” of CoQ10 power. So, basically they are the same thing, it is just that Ubiquinol is bio ready.
Posted by Alicia
Maui, Hawaii
06/29/2014
Thank you for this concise list. I plan on adding these supplements to my existing routine of taurine, CoQ10, and fish oil. My vet approved the list and amounts.

My Elvis is a 7 yo King Charles Cavalier and has a grade 4 murmur. I see him slowing but improvement with the above supplements. So difficult to keep him calm when we come home or walk time.

For the person with the older dog with a grade 2.....I would supplement and not worry. Most older dogs and people will experience a heart murmur.

I plan on adding several of the supplements to my own daily routine.

Love and light to all our fur babies. Enjoy the special moments each day. Aloha.

Posted by Diamond
Ma, US
06/30/2014
66 Posts
Thank you for your message, every message helps another in need such as my self. I have a very old Cock-a-Poo, she is appox. 15 or 16 years of age. Last month she got very sick, she had no use of her legs at all, she just stayed in her little bed for over a week. However she did eat, I made her organic oatmeal cooked veggies then added salmon oil caps.

I prayed every single day for her recovery, also not to let her live if she were to suffer any further. Then on a Tue. I said to my husband that we need to take her and have her put to sleep as she showed no signs of getting up to walk and go potty. She looked really sick. Then by that same week on a Wed. she got up and walked out on her own to go potty. She is now still our little demon we all love so much.

God Bless every one and especially our animals. They so need us and our help to keep them safe and healthy. A friend of mine always for years cooked or steamed her dogs people food, then chopped it up and fed him a small amount at a time. He lived a very long time. When she passed away I took him home, the worse and saddest thing I ever did was the vet suggested I feed him dog food, so I fed him dog food and eventually he died from many illnesses. Follow your heart. Peace

General Feedback   1  0   

Posted by Maltesemum (Norfolk, Virginia) on 03/25/2013

This is the only place I've found hope. My 7 yr old puppy mill survivor maltese pup was diagnosed with a #4 murmur about three weeks ago. Looking for alternative treatments to her enecard (enalapril) vetmed and lasix. Vet has not told me of the side effects of these drugs the way the web has. My pup who ate anything ever put before her now is hardly eating and in such a crazy pattern is completely impossible for me to predict what she will nibble on or not... She dances and lights up as she always has at the prospect of food or a treat but then walks away rather than eating it.

I am a small breed animal rescue and focus on Maltese and puppy mill girls though I don't walk away from any pup. This sweet baby was released in 2008/09 with 5 others but was th only one who tested positive for heart worm, she survived that treatment miraculously and has been in excellent health until this diagnosis. My tip off was a cough that was consistent for a couple three days. I am not ready to accept a "terminal" diagnosis. All my pups are on a natural holistic diet - no wheat no corn or soy. Research led me here, now I need to understand more.

Thanks in advance for any tips to try to save my girl.

Posted by Marsha (Tucson, Az) on 11/15/2012

To Katie from Northpoint - You said deceased dog from using Homeopath's methods. Is this your Cavalier? Because then you said that Cavalier is on phytonutrients namely Standard Process. Please clarify because I am very interested. I am in same situation with Cav and heart murmur. I am waiting to hear back from Dr. West for exact protocol but meanwhile I am using his People Protocol. I know an 86yr old woman who healed her Atrial Fib w/ Dr. West's protocol. She is off all meds and hikes mountains. Wondering if all these tabs, even though they are food product, could be too much on dog's kidneys etc. How is your Cav acting when you give the Standard Process? Sometimes I notice my dog acts like a puppy yet stills coughs. Did you have your dog re-diagnosed? Thx, Marsha

Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny
11/20/2012
I originally had two cavaliers, now I only have one. My deceased dog was the one that was treated with pharmaceuticals and homeopathy (at the very end). After his passing I learned about the magnesium, CoQ-10, ribose and carnitine. (I believe that had I given these to him at that time that it would have helped to get him out of the woods, so to speak. ) Subsequent research has now lead me to phytonutrients, which I am currently giving to my surviving dog with the MVP. My dog has not been re-examined by a cardiologist yet (only an internist), but I plan to do that soon.

You mentioned that your dog coughs. Was he examined by a cardiologist and if so what was the diagnosis? The dog that I lost coughed too. The cardiologist told me that my dog had a severely enlarged heart and that it was pressing on his trachea and that this caused the cough. My dog's cough also got much worse once they put him on Enalapril. This medication caused him to have a terrible dry, hacking cough – which is known as the "enalapril cough". This was a terrible med for my dog. I believe it dropped his blood pressure so much that he was in a fog and would just stare at the walls. I eventually had to have this med reduced because of the negative effects it had on my dog.

My current dog is not on any meds at all – and he doesn't have a cough. He's fine with the supplements I've been giving him. I've had a few blood tests taken in the past 10 months or so and his kidney values have remain unchanged.

Posted by Lovelen
Md
12/03/2012
My Cavalier has MVD and I have been using Honey Hound Syrup and the Empirical Lung and Heart Qi Capsules. I have recently added cayenne pepper and ginger to the syrup. He has been very responsive to it (currently on Enalapril, Lasix and Vetmedin). I also switched over to a raw diet. Since June 2012, I have seen some signs of improvement.

Posted by Lena (San Francisco) on 11/05/2012

Katie, My recently adopted 12-year old Chihuahua was diagniosed with a grade 1 murmur by a holistic vet; two months later with a grade 3 by a vet cardiologist who suggested blood pressure tests and chest-x-rays so I am so grateful that I came upon your posts on this site. She is asymptomatic though has one slightly elevated kidney reading. Bio-thorne ( in dry form ) as prescribed by the holistic vet upset her stomach so I am now giving her liquid Hawthorne drops preserved in glycerine which she willingly takes. I generally feed her Wellness Senior food along with Omega-3's or The Missing Link for skin and coat, usually adding a bit of fresh boiled chicken with rice and last week, started adding two good tablespoons of prepared raw food ( turkey, oats, carrots, kelp, etc. ) from a pet food store here. She really takes to the raw food. Do you think Hawthorne is effective in this situation as it differs from Bio-thorne. Also, since my poor doggie has broken teeth ( no bad breath at all , though ) I will have her checked by a doggie dentist as dental problems may have brought about her condition. Thank you for posting this invaluable information as I have suspected that drugs are not the only response to my beautiful Nicki's heart murmur if/when it worsens. I am inspired by your reasearch!

Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny
11/20/2012
Hi Lena. Yes, many times a regular vet cannot accurately grade a murmur – this has happened to me in the past too. They do not have the specialized training of a cardiologist. Also, my cardiologist told me that murmurs can be subjective up to Grade 4.

I do not have any personal experience with hawthorne, so I cannot give you my opinion on it. I do know, however, that it's considered to be an important cardiac herb.

Posted by Ckavanagh
Roanoke, Va, Usa
11/24/2012
2 Posts
I have extensive experience with Hawthorne, Cayenne (I use Habanero's), COQ10 (or Ubuquinol), Taurine, Carnitine, Astaxanthin, d-ribose, plus other things like Spiulina and Chlorella. I use many of these myself, but they're mainly for my Jack Russell (T-Bone). He has a leaking valve in his heart.

He has a heart murmur (3 out of 5). He was diagnosed 4-5 yrs ago. He has NEVER, to this day been on ANY heart medication. I started out with COQ10 & Hawthorne (plus Chlorella) & this helped greatly. However hos cough continued at night. I switched him to Ubuquinol (twice/day), & kept him on the rest. This spring his coughing became worse, although the Vet couldn't understand why. I put T-Bone on Taurine (amino acid), 500mg, 3x per day. His coughing became better, however he still coughed at night.

I began reading about Astaxanthin & d-ribose. I added Astaxanthin first, and his endurance increased but he still coughed at night. I then added d-ribose (2x/day, 500mg). At first nothing happened, then a 'miracle' occured on the 3rd day. His coughing STOPPED! That was about 6 weeks ago. He still will "clear his throat" occasionally, but rarely coughs. I was stunned to say the least. And thank you Dr Steven Sinatra for your books & articles leading me to Ribose.

I didn'tmention it, but I also make my own Habanero Tincture. It's EXCELLENT for the heart. It would stop his coughing (temporaily) cold. You can obviously buy it, but I prefer to make my own. Hawthorne combined with these hot pepper tinctures is AMAZING in itself, & will heal heart disease.

If anyone needs help or advice, I'd be glad to help any way I can. I'm not a Vet or MD, but I do have real world experience. I LOVE Dogs & animals in general. YOU CAN SAVE THEM FROM DISEASE if you give them the right nutrients!!! My email is ckava3(at)aol. com, if ANYONE needs help/advice.

Posted by Gil
Johannesburg, S Africa
06/16/2013
ckava3(at)aol.com please could you email me at lyon{at}acenet(dot)co(dot)za. I don't seem to be able to send you an email...
Posted by Shrichar
Dallas,tx
03/10/2014
5 Posts
[YEA]   Can Katie from Northport, Ny please email me at sdrrak@aol.com concerning my dog heart murmur I would realy appreciate it alot.

Multiple Supplements   5  0   

Posted by Katie (Northport, New York) on 10/05/2011

[YEA]  My 8 year old Cavalier King Charles Spaniel was diagnosed with a Grade 2 heart murmur in January of this year. After researching Mitral Valve Disease (which runs in this breed) and Congestive Heart Failure, I immediately started him on Ubiquinol, liquid magnesium, liquid carnitine, ribose and vitamin C. In addition I also give him colostrum.

I just took him back to the cardiologist to be reexamined and was told that his heart murmur is gone and that everything is within normal range. Thank God. I will keep him on these supplements for life!

Unfortunately, my first Cavalier died of congestive heart failure (which started as a Grade 2 murmur and then progressed to CHF in about 2-1/2 years). I had no experience with heart disease at the time and didn't know how to treat him. I wish I knew then what I know now. If I did, I believe my dog would still be here with me.

FYI, these are the dosages I am giving to my 25 lb. Dog:

Ubiquinol - 50 mg. TWICE daily

Liquid Magnesium - 1/2 tsp in the a.m.

Liquid Carnitine (1000 mg) - 1/2 tsp TWICE daily

Ribose - 850 mg. TWICE daily

Vitamin C - 250 mg TWICE daily

Colostrum - 1/4 tsp TWICE daily

Posted by Donna
Covington, La
02/07/2012
2 Posts
My 5 year old Cavalier was just diagnosed with a grade 2 heart murmur. He has an appointment with a cardiologist later this week. Thanks Katie for the information on all the supplements that you are giving your cavalier. That is wonderful news that the heart looks normal now! That gives me hope! What are the brands of each supplement that you are using? How to you give your dog the pills? Thanks for any and all help. Donna
Posted by Katie
Northport, NY
02/23/2012
4 Posts
Hi Donna, I was giving my dog the following supplements up until a month ago I purchased all of these supplements at swansonvitamins.com with the exception of the magnesium. Note: I learned about the use of these supplements from the integrative cardiologist, Dr. Stephen Sinatra. Dr. Sinatra has written a couple of books and refers to the following four supplements (ubiquinol, magnesium, carnitine and ribose) as "The Awesome Foursome". He uses them in his own practice.

1) Ubiquinol (ubiquinol is a highly absorbable form of Co-Q10). I chose the 50 mg. "Quino-Gel" Ubiquinol from Swanson because it is water soluble, instead of oil soluble, which means you don't need to take it with a fat to be absorbed.

2) Liquid Magnesium. I purchased "Angstrom Magnesium" from angstrom-mineral.com. I chose this form of magnesium because it was recommended by Dr. Carolyn Dean (she's written a few books on the benefits of magnesium). She said this form is highly absorbable, and doesn't have the laxative effects that some magnesium can have.

3) Liquid Carnitine. I was giving my dog the NOW Foods "Liquid L-Carnitine" (1, 000 mg. ) which I also purchased from Swanson

4) D-Ribose. I purchased the 850 mg. capsules and gave my dog 1 capsule TWICE daily.

5) Whole Food Vitamin C. I bought the "MegaFood Complex C" because it's made from whole food such as oranges, amlas, peppers, rosehips and is supposed to be much more bioavailable than regular ascorbic acid.

6) Colostrum. Note: Although I originally gave this to my dog, -- I stopped it. I didn't think my dog was getting any benefit from it. So, I don't think I would continue to recommend it.

TREATMENT UPDATE

About a month ago, I took my dog off of the "isolated" supplements listed in my post above. I wondered if they could create an imbalance in him over the long term and, besides, I now wanted to treat the underlying cause of his heart murmur/mitral valve issue. So, in my continuing research I learned that almost all cases of heart disease, has, as its underlying cause, a serious state of nutritional deficiency. I also learned that the heart will recover faster and more completely than any other organ in the body, if it is properly nourished.

So, I have since placed my dog on whole food, phytonutrient complexes that are specifically geared for the heart. I found out about these supplements during my research on heart disease. I found out about a doctor on the West coast (Dr. Bruce West) who has treated over 25,000 heart patients over the past 30 years and he uses (almost exclusively) these same RAW, WHOLE FOOD PHYTONUTRIENT SUPPLEMENTS made by a company in the mid-West called Standard Process with excellent results. Dr. West said that congestive heart failure is, like most other forms of heart disease, caused by nutritional deficiencies, specifically the B vitamins. HOWEVER, you cannot go out and buy a B complex vitamin from the store to heal your heart it won't work there's much more to it than that.

Right now I have put my dog on a modified version of a protocol he uses for humans and I am using the same phytonutrient complexes that he uses. My plans are to keep my dog on this protocol for the next 4 months or so and then bring him back to the cardiologist for a another recheck.

At that point, I will report back here with details and an update on his heart.

Posted by Michelle
Southampton, Ny
04/11/2012
Hi Kate, Im interested in the supplements you used for your ogs heart murmur. My cavalier was just diagnosed with a murmur and I would like to avoid meds if possible. I'm also interested in diet deficiencies. Please inbox me and let e know if there is a chance we could speak or email privately.

I just made a cardio, ogy appt with dr fox at the animal medical center in ny. Thanks

Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny, Us
04/12/2012
5 Posts
Hi Michelle, How do I "inbox" you so that we can speak or e-mail privately off this thread?
Posted by Gwen
Denver, Colorado
05/03/2012
14 Posts
please share ur info with the rest of us....please:^)
Posted by Sueanne
Milwaukee, Wi
05/25/2012
Will you PLEASE share the 'brand' name of the phytonutrients you use on your dog, for its murmur? We have our horses on micronutrients, and they are some of the healthies horses in the barn. If I can not put my MVD girl on drugs, I'd be very happy. Thanks!
Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny
05/26/2012
Hi Sueanne, The supplements I am giving to my dog are made by a company in the midwest called Standard Process. This company has both a veterinary line and a regular line for people. I have my dog on a combination of supplements from both lines. You can't buy these supplements in the store, you can only get them through healthcare professionals such as holistic vets, naturopaths, chiropractors, etc. However, I have been able to buy them on Amazon.

The reason I have not replied to the previous posters with details about the supplements I'm giving to my dog is because I have not had him on his protocol long enough to evaluate it - and there is a chance that it still may need to be "tweeked". Also, I have not yet brought him back to the cardiologist yet for another examination, so I do not currently have a update on his heart (MVP). Once I do, however, and have good information to report (hopefully), I plan to post the information back here, along with full details.

In the meantime, however, you might want to consider starting your dog on the following Standard Process supplements for heart support. My 25 lb. dog is currently taking these, in addition to a number of other supplements.

- Canine Cardiac Support (dosed by weight)
- Canine Whole Body Support (dosed by weight)
- Cardio Plus (2 tabs TWICE daily), and
- Cold pressed Flax Oil (I use Barleans)- 1 TBS/day

Also, another consideration is that if your dog has bad teeth, like mine does (periodontal disease), my holistic vet suggested that I add Immuplex (1 tab TWICE daily) to deal with the bacterial load from those teeth. Bacteria from the teeth attach themselves to the heart valves, which in turn can either create a murmur or worsen a murmur. This is why humans with heart disease are required to take an antibiotic before they have dental work done.

Posted by Kendra
Lebanon, Tn
05/31/2012
Katie, I have a Cavilier that is 13 years old with a grade 5 murmur. I wish I had known any of this a long time ago. The vet never heard it til it was to late I feel. Do you think I could start him on this regimen along with his meds that he is on? I am just wanting to make the rest of his life as quality as possible.
Posted by Katie
Northport, NY
06/01/2012
Kendra, these are food based supplements, so I see no reason why you can't give them to your dog, along with the medications. If my dog were on medication right now I would give them to him, but I might start slowly (say, give a ½ dosage at each meal for the first week to see how it goes, then increase to full dosage below).

FYI, I subscribed to Dr. West's newsletter (I mentioned him in an earlier post, the newsletter is called "Health Alert") and he mentioned that when patients come to him they're usually already on meds but he starts them on these supplements right away, along with the meds. Then, as the patients start to improve he starts a drug weaning program. He said that patients should be reevaluated about 4-6 months into a program, with an eye towards lowering their meds at that point. He said it can take between 6-18 months to overcome a nutritional deficiency.

FYI, this is the protocol that Dr. West uses to treat his human patients with mitral valve prolapse and murmurs. This is the same protocol that I have my dog on. (Note that the dosages listed below are the dosages I am giving to my Cavalier, not the dosages he recommends for humans).

  • Cardio-Plus - (2 tabs TWICE daily)
  • Cataplex B - (2 tabs TWICE daily)
  • Cataplex F - (2 tabs TWICE daily)
  • Calcium Lactate - (2 tabs TWICE daily)
  • Organically Bound Minerals - (1 tab TWICE daily)
  • Cold Pressed Flax Oil (I use Barleans) - (1 tsp TWICE daily)

I am also giving my dog the following supplements, obviously, these are not part of Dr. West's protocol:

  • Canine Cardiac Support – (1/4 tsp. TWICE daily). I thought a little extra heart support wouldn't hurt.
  • Canine Whole Body Support – (1/4 tsp. TWICE daily). This is the equivalent of a multi-vitamin, which supports all the organs in the body.
  • Immuplex – (1 capsule TWICE daily). I added this because of his periodontal disease.

So, these are the phytonutrient supplements that my dog is currently on. FYI, I was very reluctant to post this information here because I have not yet had a chance to see how it works for my dog. I want to give my dog a full 8 months on this protocol before reevaluating him. However, I believe that if it can work for humans, it should work for animals too. I plan to bring my dog back to the cardiologist late this summer and will continue to monitor any progress we make through auscultations and echocardiograms. I will continue to post here with updates as that information becomes available.

Kendra, I posted this information now, with the hope that it can help your dog.

Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny
06/25/2012
Kendra, Why don't you create an account on EC where you can sign up for a watched post and be emailed if someone responds or posts to it. Go to the top of this page – go to Register, then Sign-up, then create an account – then you can sign up for a watched post.

I also took my dog off of kibble and am now feeding him raw food, just as you are and I'm doing it for the same reason. One thing I noticed almost immediately after starting the raw food is that my dog's dirty, itchy ears improved drastically. I used to have to clean them everyday, but now I'm cleaning them maybe once a week.

Kendra, what symptoms is your dog experiencing with his grade 5 murmur? What medications is your dog on? and for how long?

Posted by Kendra
Lebanon, Tn
06/25/2012
3 Posts
Katie, I had not seen your response until today and I just purchased the first regimen you started with your dog. The Magnesium, ribose etc. Do you feel that those are not as good as what you are trying now? I hate that I did not see all of this until now. Do you think it is ok to continue using the first supplements you tried until you get your results back? I feel I need to do anything to help him. I have also been researching on dog foods as well. See we have a 2 fold problem here. My dog is also very yeast allergy prone. I have found out that one issue causes another. They put him on Perscription Hill Science diet cardiac dog food and that is nothing but JUNK. It has not meat in it. He is now reacting so badly to that, that I am going back to my raw diet that worked so much better. SO he might not get sodium on that commercial food but he is getting nothing but yeast triggers!

FYI there is a great website for commercial dog foods for those that do not want to make their own dog food. It is Dog Food Advisor.com it rates from 5star to 1star the commercial dog foods on the market, if you want to call them food! So to go by the Vets instructions my dog was TOTALLY suffering from yeast and miserable which only aggitated him and made his heart work harder. CRAZY If you want great info on the raw meat diet for dogs go to Dinovite website, better yet call them and let them explain why it is so good. Now I have to not only try to strengthen my dogs heart I have to rid his body of the yeast that the "junk" dog food put in his body! Kendra

Posted by Judith
Shalimar, Florida
07/13/2012
Katie... Would you be willing to talk to me directly about the treatment of your dog with heart murmur? I live in a small town and have no veterinary specialists near me. My precious Italian Greyhound has just been diagnosed with a Grade 2 murmur. I want to do anything and everything to help him. He is my heart.
Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny
07/14/2012
Judith, please give me your e-mail address and we can talk.
Posted by Kendra
Lebanon, Tn
08/03/2012
Katie, He is on a lasixs pill, Vetmedin, and enalapril maleate. He is not doing very well lately, just sleeps mostly and hard to get around. His pulses in his back leg area are not real strong. Kendra
Posted by Lynne
Ho Ho Kus, NJ
10/26/2012
Have any of you heard of [this selection of supplements] L-Carnitine, Taurine, Dessiccated Heart (Bovine), Hawthorn extract, Eleuthero extract, Vitamin E, Dimethylglycine, Co Q10, Arjuna extract, Magnesium, Potassium and Selenium.
Posted by Katie
Northport, New York
10/27/2012
5 Posts
Yes I have heard of Thorne Biocardio - and I would not recommend it. I had both of my cavaliers on this supplement for a couple of years prior to them developing mitral valve disease and it did nothing to stop or reverse the disease in either of them.

FYI, I brought my dog to his internist about a month ago and she told me that his murmur has lessened and that his borderline high blood pressure (which was 155/110) is now normal (135/65). She told me that that means his heart is working with less effort and his kidneys are starting to work more efficiently.

However, I want to confirm her findings with another echo. I was told by a cardiologist that murmurs can be subjective to Grade 4 and that the only way you can really confirm what's going on is with an echo. So I am planning to bring him to a cardiac health clinic in January for another echo.

Posted by Katie
Northport, New York
10/27/2012
5 Posts
Suji, what supplements do you have your dog on? The only way you would be able to contact me is by publishing your email address on this post -- and I don't think that is a good idea.
Posted by Suji
Kochi, India
10/27/2012
Hi Katie, Thank you so very much for writing back to me in detail. I would very much love to communicate with you directly.

Right now he is on: L-carnitine, D-ribose, ubiquinol, vitmain C and magnesium. The news about homeopathy is bad because I was hoping it will fix it, thanks for letting me know. He is wheezing and coughing off and on, this is a real concern for me, I am having sleepless nights with all the stress. My email id is ge. Ha. Sam(at)gmail.com Please email me.

Posted by Suji
Kochi, Kerala, India
10/27/2012
3 Posts
Hi Katie from Newport, is there anyway for me to contact you? pls can you pm me. I have started my spitz on the initial set of supplementations you had recommended about 15 days ago. Can I continue with it?
Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny
11/21/2012
Kendra, right now I don't know the current status of my dog's heart, other than what his internist told me because he hasn't had a follow-up echo done yet. Once the echo is done I still might have to "tweek" his protocol based on the results but we'll see.

Has your dog progressed from a grade 5 to grade 6 murmur? What medications is he currently taking -lasix, enalapril and vetmedin? Does your dog have congestive heart failure?

I have read that Lasix causes the loss of minerals from the body such as calcium, magnesium and potassium and Enalapril also causes the loss of potassium. These are the same important minerals that the heart needs to pump.

My feeling is that you should probably put your dog back on his current supplements for now. His body probably needs that magnesium (desperately), ubiquinol, ribose and carnitine to keep his heart pumping, since some of these vital minerals are being pulled out of his body by the meds. It is possible that the reason he's more agitated now, since the supplements have been removed, is because it is more difficult for him to breathe without them.

What I might suggest is that you try the phytonutrients which Dr. West recommends for murmurs and MVP, in addition to your supplements. These are the same supplements I have my dog on. (I would assume that the extra nutrition from them can only help your dog's heart. ) They are:

Cardio-Plus - (2 tabs twice daily). Contains about 25 mg. natural CoQ-10 per tab.

Cataplex B - (2 tabs twice daily).

Calcium Lactate - (2 tabs twice daily). This contains both calcium and magnesium in a 5:1 ratio.

Cataplex F -(2 tabs twice daily). This is considered part of the Vitamin E complex and contains some essential fatty acids.

Organically Bound Minerals - (1 tab twice daily). This is an organic source of minerals which is made from alfalfa and tillandsia. It contains potassium, zinc, magnesium, phosphorus, selenium, chromium and copper in addition to others; and

Cold Pressed Flax Oil - I've been giving my dog 1 tsp per meal.

Posted by Kendra
Lebanon, Tn
11/21/2012
3 Posts
Katie, from NY have the second supplements you have your dog on been sucessful? My dog with the #6 heart murmur was on your original supplement suggestion and seemed better lived another year... Still ticking but I just recently took him off to see if there was a difference and he seems more aggitated. Do you think as old as he is it will help to start him on your newer regimen?
Posted by Kendra
Lebanon, Tn
11/21/2012
3 Posts
Katie, from Newport, Sorry I forgot to post this as well. Which of these do you recommend? Some are not under the standard process canine listing so they must be the human version. I have seen all of these on your post.... Cardio Plus, Cataplex B, Cataplex F, Calcium Lactate, Organically Bound Minerals, Canine Cardiac Supplement, Whole Body Support, and Immuplex as well as Cold Pressed Flax Oil. SO many things so not sure if some overlap others in this list. Any help would be appreciated.
Posted by Katie
Northport, NY
11/25/2012
Kendra, I don't know if your dog is holding onto fluids in his lungs or abdomen, but I wanted to mention that Standard Process makes a supplement called AC Carbamide which is a natural diuretic. Thought you might want to look into this if that is the case with your dog. I have not used this product but it is mentioned on the cavalierhealth.org website as a natural alternative diuretic. I also know that Dr. West uses AC Carbamide if there is edema in CHF.
Posted by Katie
Northport, New York
02/09/2013
5 Posts
UPDATE 2/9/13. My dog just had his follow-up echo last month. The cardiologist said he is doing real good - he said his heart is pumping strong and his heart is now working at 100%.... And he said there was no heart enlargement. He said he still has a grade 2 murmur due to his mitral valve issue but he said my dog was doing really well despite it. It is very interesting.... When the cardiologist went to take his heart measurements he seemed a little perplexed for a moment.... Then he mumbled that he must have taken the wrong measurements on the echo that was done a year earlier because my dog's numbers/measurements improved. His LA Diameter (left atrium diameter) improved by decreasing from 2.4 cm to 2.0 cm and his LA/AO ratio (left atrium to aortic root ratio) improved by decreasing from 1.21 to 1.02. Note: I read that this LA/AO measurement is a sensitive indicator of heart enlargement. So, even though my dog's LA/AO ratio was considered within the "normal" range last year with a reading of 1.21, it has decreased to 1.02 which is right in line with what I read a normal, healthy Cavalier should be. (This measurement is adjusted for different breeds). I read that the range for healthy Cavaliers should be 1.03 + 09 (or 0.94 - 1.12).

My holistic vet told me that my dog no longer needs all the supplements I had him on for the past year. So we have just lowered his supplements to only CardioPlus (3 tabs/day) and Canine Whole Body Support (1/4 tsp. Twice daily) and we'll continue to monitor his progress. Note that Canine Whole Body Support is dosed based on weight - and that this supplement contains most of the other supplements which I was originally giving my dog, only in a smaller proportion (e.g. , Calcium Lactate, Organically Bound Minerals).

In summary, I would highly recommend this protocol to anyone who has a dog with a heart condition. I believe that even if your dog has mitral valve disease, like mine does, this will help to strengthen his heart which will help it to move that regurgitated blood out of the heart (note the reductions in the size of my dog's left atrium size). Without heart support such as this, the heart will continue to weaken and the left atrium and left ventricle will continue to enlarge which could eventually lead to CHF, as it did with my first dog. However, I would make the following adjustments to the protocol I was using for my 25 lb. Dog. I would recommend the following:

CardioPlus - 4 tabs/day
Cataplex B - 2 tabs/day
Cataplex F - 2 tabs/day
Organically Bound Minerals - 1 tab/day
Calcium Lactate - 2 tabs/day
Flax Oil - I would lower this. I think 1 TBS was too much. I would only give 1 tsp/day for every 25 lbs. For dog's less than that, I would halve the dose.

We are going to continue to monitor my dog for any future improvements and will post here with any updates. His next echo won't be for another 6 to 12 months from now.

Posted by Brian
Tarbert, Argyll, Scotland
03/16/2013
2 Posts
Hi Katie from Northport! I have just read your post with great interest and wonder if you could advise me. I have a 7yr old Golden Retriever who was diagnosed about 4yrs ago with a "suspected heart murmur. " This has now been confirmed, and last year he had a blood test done with the results being "inconclusive. " As the murmur this year is more apparent he had another blood test done which showed he was in the mid-range. He is showing no symptoms and is still acting like a puppy! The vet has suggested starting him on Vetmedin, and seeing how he does. However I feel that it will be difficult to judge any improvement as he displays no symptoms at present. As I live in a rural area of Scotland there is no holistic vet in the area. I could get the Standard Process products that you eventually settled on using at the end of your post, from Amazon in the USA, so wondered if you would advise this rather than the individual supplements that you used initially? Could you suggest a dosage ( his weight is 70lbs. ) and would you wait to see how this works before trying the Vetmedin?

Many thanks for any advice you can give me, and really appreciate you sharing all this information.

Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny
03/17/2013
Hi Brian, I would suggest that you give your dog only the Cardio-Plus and the Canine Whole Body Support. My holistic vet seems to think that this is all that is needed. Based on your dog's weight (70 lbs) the recommended dosage of Canine Whole Body Support would be 3/4 tsp. twice a day and I would probably suggest 6-9 tabs of Cardio-Plus initially (at least for the first 6 months or so) and then possibly lowering the dosage based on his progress. I would also suggest that if it's possible, I would divide the Cardio-Plus dosage and give 3 times a day, rather than 2 times a day to keep the nutrition steadily in his bloodstream. (My vet initially cut my dog's Cardio-Plus back to 3 a day but has since decided to keep him at a maintenance dose of 4 a day and - he's only 25 lbs).

Note: My vet told me that dogs metabolize these supplements differently than humans (I think she said it had something to do with the fact that they have shorter intestinal tracts than humans) which is why the dosage is higher.

Regarding Vetmedin, this medication scares me. My dog was on it and I believe it seriously weakened his heart. Please read up on it. There is some excellent information on it – and its dangers on the cavalierhealth.org website.

Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny
03/17/2013
Brian, In rethinking my recommendation of Cardio-Plus for your dog, I think I would give him between 9-12 tabs of CardioPlus a day, rather than 6-9 tabs (based on his weight of 70 lbs)at least initially. This dosage could always be lowered later on as he improves. As I mentioned, my 25 lb dog is on a maintenance dose of 4 tabs a day.
Posted by Brian
Tarbert, Argyll
03/17/2013
2 Posts
Katie, thank you so much for your prompt and very helpful reply. The info on Vetmedin was very enlightening and in fact confirmed my "gut feeling. " As I would like to ask you a related question, but would rather do so by email, I wondered if you could possibly contact me? My email is, smitbd at gmail dot com. Again, many thanks.
Posted by Rustydusty
Wantage, Nj, Usa
05/24/2013
2 Posts
Katie, Could you clarify your supplement protocol for heart issues? There have been so many posts I am a bit confused.

Is it just the CardioPlus and Canine Whole Body Support?

Is it no longer:

Cardio-Plus - (2 tabs TWICE daily)
Cataplex B - (2 tabs TWICE daily)
Cataplex F - (2 tabs TWICE daily)
Calcium Lactate - (2 tabs TWICE daily)
Organically Bound Minerals - (1 tab TWICE daily)
Cold Pressed Flax Oil (I use Barleans) - (1 tsp TWICE daily)

Or these?:

- Canine Cardiac Support (1/4 tsp. TWICE daily). I thought a little extra heart support wouldn't hurt.
- Canine Whole Body Support (1/4 tsp. TWICE daily). This is the equivalent of a multi-vitamin, which supports all the organs in the body.
- Immuplex (1 capsule TWICE daily). I added this because of his periodontal disease.

OR

four supplements (ubiquinol, magnesium, carnitine and ribose) as "The Awesome Foursome"

I was actually going to purchase all the following as suggested by another poster but it seems like an awful lot of supplements at high doses - although she says she has had great success with it.

D-Ribose - By Doctor' Best. 1 heaping scoop, (twice a day sprinkle on food). Ubiquinol QH-absorb (CoQ10) - By Jarrow Formulas 200mg, (1 pill twice a day). Propionyl-L-Carnitine HCI – By Jarrow Formulas 750 mg, (1 pill twice a day). Magnesium Taurate By Cardiovascular Research -125 mg, (1 pill a day). Mega Red Extra Strength Krill Oil, - By Schiff, 500mg (1 pill twice a day). L-Arginine - By Jarrow Formulas, 1000 mg (1 pill a day). Colon Green Fiber Supplement with Probiotics and Enzymes, - By Futurebiotics (Sprinkle 2 pills twice a day). Esther C Vegetarian Capsules, - By American Health 500mg (1 pill twice a day). Milk Thistle, 200mg (1 pill twice a day). Senior Vitality Multi Vitamin, - By Optimal Pet (1 pill a day)

My dog is an 18 lb Boston Terrier in advanced stages of CHF. My goal is to make her breathing less labored. She is on max dose of Furosamide and Enapril. Tried the Spironolactone but it didn't seem to help her bloating and seemed to make her extra tired. So we took her off that. She is almost 15 - I just want to make her quality of life as good as possible. Wish I had found this site sooner.

Thank you so much!

Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny
05/25/2013
Dear Rusty, I originally started giving my dog about a dozen different supplements (as you can see from my earlier posts), but eventually I pared down his supplements to only Cardio-Plus and Canine Whole Body Support, on the advice of my naturopathic vet. She felt that I was giving my dog too many supplements and that they were unnecessary. (She feels that when you're giving too many supplements they can actually start working against you). She also made changes to my dog's diet for his heart health and his mitral valve issue – which I'll detail later.

You mentioned that your dog is in advanced CHF, which is a very serious condition - and that your dog has bloating. By "bloating" do you mean she has fluid congestion in her abdomen (ascites), and also possibly in the lungs?. You also mentioned that your dog is on Enalapril and Lasix.

Heart medications such as Enalapril and Lasix rob and steal the very nutrients from the body that the heart needs to pump. In order to stay strong, the heart requires certain nutrients (some of which are magnesium, potassium, calcium, B vitamins). The use of blood pressure medications such as Enalapril rob the body of (excessive amounts of magnesium), potassium, zinc and calcium. Diuretics, such as Lasix, rob the body of potassium, magnesium, calcium, B-vitamins, vitamin C and zinc.

The best way to replace some of these vitamins and minerals (especially the critical magnesium and potassium), according to my vet, would be to give your dog lots of cooked (organic) spinach (she told me this is food is essential to the heart - and also to the valves). She also suggests (organic) sweet potatoes (as they are high in potassium). Also, sweet potatoes are the #1 top rated nutritious vegetable, followed by spinach. (I have read that sweet potatoes far surpass spinach in nutrition). They are high in potassium, beta carotene, vitamin A & C and certain B vitamins. Spinach is high in magnesium, potassium, calcium, manganese, B-complex, zinc and omega 3 fatty acids. Spinach is an integral part of my dog's diet now and my vet said it is an essential food in healing my dog's mitral valve disease. (Right now I am giving my dog at least 1/3 cup of cooked spinach a day (and sometimes I give it to him twice a day), along with 2 tsp. Chopped parsley (also high in magnesium). I also switch off with other brightly colored veggies such as cooked carrots, canned pumpkin, acorn squash, butternut squash, kale, and beets---- but the top veggie of his diet is spinach.

It seems that the #1 most important issue that needs to be addressed with your dog right now is the fluid retention. Although I haven't had any actual experience in helping a dog with congestive heart failure - I want to pass along some of what I've read/learned.

There are alternative natural diuretics out there which may be used in combination with your current pharmaceutical diuretics. In fact they are a lot safer and they may even enable you to eventually lower the amount of prescription diuretic that is given to your dog. Here are some:

1) Homeopathic Diuretic Remedies - A friend of mine has a dog who has had heart problems in the past and fluid retention. She told me that she has used homeopathic remedies successfully to get the fluid out of his lungs and abdomen. She said she would use apismel 200C (3 drops in 2ml of water) - twice a day, if necessary, for 2 or 3 days and then would stop. She said sometimes only one dose was needed.

She also told me that if the fluid was only in the lungs you could give ars-alb 200C (3 drops in 2 ml water) once or twice a day for two days.

2) Other Alternative Diuretics. I read about these on the http://www.cavalierhealth.org website: (i) AC Carbamide by Standard Process; (ii) Wu Ling San by Mayway, (iii) Alisma by Seven Forests and (iv) Salvia Shou Wu by Seven Forests. The last three alternative diuretics mentioned are traditional Chinese herbal medicines. (Note: Dr. West uses AC Carbamide when there is fluid retention in his human CHF patients. Not sure how it works for dogs but it was mentioned on the Cavalier website so I'm thinking it must work for them too).

3) I have also read that parsley water and watermelon juice are good diuretics for dogs.

As far supplements go, I think I would give your dog the Cardio-Plus, the Canine Whole Body Support, and Organically Bound Minerals (this is from alfalfa and kelp and would replace a lot of lost minerals). I think I would also give Cod Liver Oil (500 mg) as this was recommended to me when my own dog was sick. It helps to regulate the blood pressure which is a problem in CHF and almost all heart conditions.

Finally, the cavalierhealth.org website also recommends a product called Vetri-DMG, which is made by Vetri-Science Laboratories of Vermont. DMG is said to support the immune system, oxygen utilization, cardiovascular function and liver function in older dogs with congestive heart failure. Don't know if this is any good but thought I would mention it just in case it's something you want to look into.

I hope some of this helps your pup. Good luck with her, I will keep her in my prayers.

Posted by Rustydusty
Wantage, Nj, Usa
05/29/2013
2 Posts
Thank you so much for the reply. I think I may temporarily put her on the individual supplements because several other posters have had success with them, then switch her to just the Cardio-Plus and Canine Whole Body Support and Organically Bound Minerals as you suggest. Also the Immuplex as you mentioned in a previous post. I will try adding the spinach and sweet potatoes too. I also have her on a prebiotic and probiotic for dogs and a product called Cardio-Strength by Vetri-Science. I might try the Vetri-DMG by them also. Thank you again so very much!
Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny
06/12/2013
UPDATE - 6/8/13. Just brought my dog back for another echo this weekend and found out that some of his heart measurements have changed negatively. I think the reason for the change is because I took him off of the original protocol I had him on last year, which was the Cardio-Plus (4), Cataplex B (4), Cataplex F (2), Calcium Lactate (2) and Organic Minerals (1). These were the supplements he was taking prior to his echo in January 2013 in which he had really good results. Following this echo, however, I took him off all of these supplements, and was only giving him Cardio-Plus and Canine Whole Body Support. However, it turns out that these two supplements alone are not enough heart support for my dog's mitral valve disease. They really need to be used in combination with other supplements or in a protocol, like I did earlier. I will be discussing this with my vet soon and plan to get my dog back on track. Most likely I will be putting him back on his original protocol---or a version of his original protocol. It is very likely that some changes or tweeks will be made to it too. Also, I'm not sure if I'll continue with the flax oil at all or if I will be substituting it for cod liver oil? These things will all have to be worked out. However, I'll continue giving my dog the spinach and other healthy veggies in his meals, as I feel they are important to his diet and his overall health.

I don't plan to make any further updates or recommendations until I can get my dog back on track and can confirm positive results on the next echo. Unfortunately, I had spoken too soon on this one and should not have passed along a recommendation which was made to me, without first being able to confirm results/findings on an echo.

Posted by Nadia
Washington, District Of Columbia
06/25/2013
Dear Katie - thank you so much for all of this information! I just came back from the vet today and my 3 year old Cavalier (he is a little guy at only 14 pounds) had a clear Grade 2 heart murmur. Needless to say I was devastated and hoping to not have to hear that for at least several more years. I know you had mentioned that you won't be making recommendations anymore but I was hoping you could outline for me the original protocol (including how you fed your dog + the supplements) for me. I am very interested in holistically treating this because for me personally dietary changes and supplements cured an "incurable" autoimmune condition that I had.

Is there any way you'd be willing to outline what you had originally found to be the most effective way to treat this? Also, my vet said I probably don't need to do an echo for a year... But do you think that is risky to wait that long?

Thanks so much for all this information!!!

Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny
06/29/2013
Hi Nadia, I have decided to put my 25 lb. dog back on his original protocol (which he was doing so well on), along with a couple of changes that were suggested to me by a different vet. This vet suggested that it's not a good idea to take a "minimalistic" approach to treating a serious condition such as mitral valve disease by giving only two supplements (Cardio-Plus and Canine Whole Body Support). He mentioned that even though my dog is eating well and has good food, it is still not enough to treat mitral valve disease. He said he still needs additional supplementation. He said my original protocol was good, but suggested adding Cataplex E-2 - and not to give the flax oil. The Cataplex E-2 helps to oxygenate the heart, I believe. I've read that mountain climbers bring this on their climbs to help oxygenate them at high altitudes.

So, the following is pretty much what he's going back on. The only thing I'm undecided about right now is whether I should give my dog Min-Tran (2/day) in place of the Organic Minerals. (My current vet seems to prefer the Min-Tran).

Cardio-Plus (4/day) - (Strengthens Heart)
Cataplex B (2/day) - (For Nerve Conduction)
Cataplex E-2 (4/day) - (For Oxygenation)
Cataplex F (2/day)
Organically Bound Minerals (2/day) (Good source of natural potassium and other minerals for the heart)
Calcium Lactate (2/day) - Should be taken along with a tiny bit of butter to help absorption. Best to be given away from food and other supplements
Canine Whole Body Support - based on weight

Also, my vet mentioned that most dogs have viruses in their bodies, and that they need to be eliminated from the body before they can completely heal from illness. I know that my dog has at least 4 viruses – and I'm sure he got them from each of his four vaccines. I was told that they can be eliminated homeopathically, however, but it will take at least 3 months to get rid of them. So I'll also be working on eliminating his viruses in the meantime, too.

I'll follow up with another echo in about 6 months.

Posted by Phillip
Olympia, Wa
08/17/2013
3 Posts
I have a 9 year old Jack Russell that has a level 3 murmur and I need help on what supplements may work. I wanted to know how your dog has done on Dr. West protocol? Can you share any insight? Thank you. Phillip
Posted by Katie
Northport, NY
08/18/2013
[YEA]   Phillip, My dog had been doing really well on Dr. West's protocol. There was a big improvement in his echos after about a year on the supplements (the changes may have occurred earlier than a year, but the findings are based on the timing of his echos). But, as you'll see from some of my posts, in January of this year a naturopath suggested to me that my dog didn't need all those supplements so I took him off of most of them for a period of 5 months on her advice. However, after five months I decided to have another echo to evaluate the effectiveness of her "minimalistic" protocol and when I did – I realized that it was not effective at all to withhold those supplements and to rely on food alone (basically) for a condition as serious as MVD. I found out that my dog's Grade 2 murmur had actually progressed to a Grade 3 and that some of his cardiac dimensions had changed negatively too. So, right now, my dog is back on Dr. West's protocol: Cardio-Plus (4/day), Cataplex B (2/day), Cataplex F (2/day), Calcium Lactate (2/day), Organically Bound Minerals (1/day) and Canine Whole Body Support. As mentioned above, I am working with a new vet who didn't recommend adding the flax oil (1/2 tsp. Day) but I still think it is important to keep it as apart of the protocol. This vet has also added a few other supplements to his protocol (such as Cataplex E-2 and a few others). Whether these additional supplements are necessary or not, I don't know yet. However, time will tell. This vet doesn't take the minimalistic view in treating MVD – in fact he said that supplementation is required. In 6 months or so I will reevaluate his progress with another echo.

My suggestion to you at this point would be to put your dog on Dr. West's protocol, as it helped my dog – and it does take time to work. Also, although I can't recommend the Cataplex E2 yet, you might want to see how it works for your dog. My vet seems to really like this product.

Posted by Paige
Wilmington, Nc
09/27/2013
Katie from Newport - Hi! I have a 15 year old Poodle who has a grade 5 murmur and heart problems and have been following yours and others protocols for treating your own dogs, and I just wanted to ask why you decided to use the human formulas by Standard Process for your dogs heart issues rather than their veterinary formulas? I see you do a lot of research (as I do) so knew you probably had a good reason for doing this. I just know it is much harder to take a supplement intended and used for humans and make it work for an animal. Was wondering if perhaps they didn't have their veterinary line when you first started and maybe that's why? Thanks!
Posted by Andrea C
Wales
09/29/2013
Put Cayenne Pepper in his food, start with a quarter of a tea spoon, and mix it in well, this has been proven to regrow Heart tissue like crazy, to the point reasherchers were astonished at the accelerated growth of the tissue in numerous studies. After many weeks of the tissue growing in full health, they had to destroy it to stop it growing. If your Dog is a Minature breed, start with an eighth of Cayenne pepper. Your Dog may not like it, but most Dogs sneeze, splutter, walk away, go back and eat more, and may repeat the process. Another way to administer it is in an empty syringe, out it to the left of your Dogs jaw, between their teeth, near to their throat without jabbing the syringe in to soft tissue. It activates their 'Gag reflex' which makes them swallow automatically, and use distilled water, and not to much at a time, little by little. This also works with tablets, if you wet them to stop them sticking if its a capsule, and if its a solid pill, make sure there's no sharp edges on it, and cover it in butter and do the same, (be careful with tablets). And NEVER give 'Paracetamol/Acetaminophen to them, this will cause Kidney and liver, or Heart failure in them.

I try to avoid drugs like the plague with Animals unless its too serious to risk not trying, I do this with my Dogs, my Boy Dog is now 27 years old, and plays like a puppy!! Also be WAY careful of 'De-fleaing' and 'Worming' chemicals. The worlds oldest and trusted animal 'care' providers were selling a Anti-flea' Formula, which they KNEW was killing millions of pets off, and they died a terrible agonizing death!! BOB MARTIN.... In the UK, loads of people have sued them for knowingly poisoning their pets, and its dangerous to ANY life form. As are lots of pet products. There are herbs, which Dogs eat in their natural habitat to do this, and Grass is eaten by every Dog, Cat, to self heal, and induce vomiting to remove toxins from their bodies. Never give them 'Garlic' or feed them processed food, or Chocolate for Human consumption, this will kill them! If not straight away, it will build up in their bodies, then kill them. There is loads of information on the Web about this, And boil any bones till soft, never let them eat hard bone, or run around with sticks in their mouth, I have seen some awful things because of this. Love Andrea C xxxxxx

Posted by Katie
Northport, New York
09/29/2013
Hi Paige,

At first I was undecided whether I was to go with the human formulations or the veterinary formulations. After I looked into it a little more, I found out that long before the veterinary line was even created, animals were given and prescribed the human line of SP supplements by knowledgeable vets. I believe the veterinary line (and their formulations) were created so that it would be just be easier for most to choose a supplement which would be helpful to an animal suffering from a specific ailment. So, specific formulas were then created - the heart formula, liver formula, renal formula, musculoskeletal formula, etc. However, I don't think these formulations are the same – although I can't tell you how they differ either. My feeling is that the protocol I'm following is stronger though. Also, my vet seems to prefer the human line when treating animals. I know he's been using SP products for many years (20+) and I believe he sticks with the human line because he's had years of good results with them (long before the veterinary line came along). The other reason I decided to use them is because the doctor I've referred to in previous posts has had years of great success in using these same supplements on his human heart patients, and I believe those same results can be duplicated in animals.

Posted by Katie
Northport, New York
09/29/2013
Hi Paige,

At first I was undecided whether I was to go with the human formulations or the veterinary formulations. After I looked into it a little more, I found out that long before the veterinary line was even created, animals were given and prescribed the human line of SP supplements by knowledgeable vets. I believe the veterinary line (and their formulations) were created so that it would be just be easier for most to choose a supplement which would be helpful to an animal suffering from a specific ailment. So, specific formulas were then created - the heart formula, liver formula, renal formula, musculoskeletal formula, etc. However, I don't think these formulations are the same – although I can't tell you how they differ either. My feeling is that the protocol I'm following is stronger though. Also, my vet seems to prefer the human line when treating animals. I know he's been using SP products for many years (20+) and I believe he sticks with the human line because he's had years of good results with them (long before the veterinary line came along). The other reason I decided to use them is because the doctor I've referred to in previous posts has had years of great success in using these same supplements on his human heart patients, and I believe those same results can be duplicated in animals.

Posted by Theresa
Mpls., Mn
09/30/2013
546 Posts
I have no experience to add to this, but wanted to comment to Andrea C - your Boy Dog is 27 years old?! My word, that is just awesome! What a testament to your good care!
Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny
12/08/2013
Jillian, Sounds like you have a terrible holistic vet. I can't believe he asked you if your dog ate something after you just told him about the adverse reaction she was having to the vaccine she just received??!! In cases of vaccine reactions, I think you will get your best results with homeopathy. But you should use a professional homeopath, and not try to remedy this yourself because your animal's life could be at stake - with time being of the essence. I know of a woman whose dog died recently following a rabies vaccine and her second dog became deathly ill after receiving the same vaccine – thankfully the second dog survived.

I have a book written by a homeopathic vet and I read the section on adverse vaccine reactions in which he covered 8 different remedies. I wonder if Arsenicum album would have been the correct remedy for your dog in that situation? It read as follows: “This remedy may also be of assistance for those animals that develop breathing difficulty, diarrhea, or vomiting following vaccination. Fear is common as well, and this is generally my first choice for fearful animals when the fear arises following a vaccination.” Other remedies discussed were Thuja (considered to be one of the best remedies for adverse effects from vaccination), Belladonna, Silicea, Aconitum, Apis mel, Antimonium and Pyrogenium.

This is just an FYI - This vet also had a section on kidney stones in his book in which he mentioned that “when an animal is prone to kidney stones, a diet which is on the acid side of ph will be of considerable help in preventing stone formation. He said this can be ensured by adding a teaspoonful of apple cider vinegar to the animal's food or drinking water daily.

Anyway, I have recently backburnered some of the things I was doing to deal with the viral issues in my dog because I recently found out that that my dog contracted Lyme disease. He picked it up sometime between June, 2012 and August, 2013 of this year, as he was bitten a number of times in that time period. So, right now, he's just completed a month long course of antibiotics and he's also taking some homeopathic remedies, which I believe he will be on for quite a while until we can be sure that this spirochette (which causes the disease) has been killed. Once that's done I'll get back to dealing with the viral issues.

Regarding the supplements I'm giving to my dog….They are as follows: CardioPlus (4/day), Cataplex B (2/day), Cataplex F (2/day), Organically Bound Minerals (1/day) and Calcium Lactate (2/day). This is the Dr. West protocol (although Dr. West also adds cod liver oil or flax oil to his protocols too). My vet suggested that in addition to that protocol that I should add the following: Cataplex E2 (4/day), Hawthorne (1/day) and Canine Whole Body Support. I can't say if my dog needs the Cataplex E2 or the Hawthorne, but my vet has more experience than me, and he would really like my dog on them so I am following his lead. My dog will have his follow-up echo in the Spring so we'll see how it's all working for him. I can tell you that my dog is doing great right now though!!!

Jillian, you mentioned that you're thinking about giving the CardioPlus and the Canine Cardiac Support too. I don't think that's necessary – only choose one. I would suggest that you give the CardioPlus. Also, not sure about whether the cod liver oil or the flax oil is necessary. It's all very confusing because people are of so many different opinions on this. For example, my vet doesn't think it's necessary, but my dog's cardiologist suggested 500 mg. of fish oil and Dr. West uses either flax oil or cod liver oil in all of his protocols. So I guess each of us with have to make that determination for ourselves.

Katie

P.S. I grew up in Commack as a child! ☺

Posted by Jillian
Pittsburgh Pa
12/08/2013
3 Posts
Hi Katie, I have been following your posts right from the beginning! Re-reading over and over just to make sure I get the right cocktail for my yorkie mix. Im taking notes when ever I come across helpful hints and proven remedies that have had great results...I Don't want to make any mistakes with this. She is 5 years old 17 pounds yorkie poo. and was diagnosed this month with a grade 2 heart murmer by the holistic vet . no symptoms as of yet. He said theres nothing I can do other than give her canine cardiac support and see what happens. I chose not to accept what he said as truth, which is what led me here, to Earth clinic..and your posts. I started taking her to the so called holistic vet to get alternative remedies for her bladder a year and a half ago..she had stones and needed surgery ..my reg vet did the surgery, not holistic one.. he put her on an herb to prevent bladder stone formation as a treatment plan. my reg vet wanted me to start her on Hills diet which is disgusting. I wanted to go the holistic route instead. I was relieved that problem cleared up and now this grade 2 heart murmer diagnosis emerged! (I want to say though, at age 6 months the vet diagnosed her with what he termed minor heart murmer. he dismissed it as common among puppies and not to worry about it. fast forwarding to present , I am in process of implementing the protocol you advocate. standard process cardio plus, cetaplex B, whole body support, calcium lactate, cod liver oil..cataplexy F, organically bound minerals, cetaplex E ..I also wrote down what you feed your dog..never knew spinach was number one food for heart health!! I just have to order everything. only have cardio plus, canine cardiac support and whole body support. I also share your concern regarding virus's in the body and that they need to be eliminated completely before the body can heal from illness..after my dog zoey had her 2nd rabies vaccine in 2012, she got so sick!! The holistic vet gave it to her. they made light of it when I mentioned she got sick (threw up two days in row following vaccine, lethargic for around 5 days or so..diarrhea for a few days etc....the holistic vet said maybe she ate something outside?? which I know she didn't. he said it can't be from vaccine.. I never pursued my concern though. it fell on deaf ears and didn't know what more I could say. they told me to bring her in if it continued more than 7 days.it went away finally on the 5th day. I believe our babies are being poisoned with unnecessary vaccines..i do get the titer bld test though at his recommendation.(shocked he even advocates this given his luke warm approach to her heart murmur)..which revealed she does not need her yearly boosters. she has enough of the antibodies still in her system from prior vaccination he said. He insisted the rabies is mandatory , which I was already aware of, and THE LAW as he firmly stated. I signed a petition months back to stop the mandatory every 3 years rabies vaccine. that's it been proven one rabies is good for the length of the animals life!! But I do understand they need to follow the rules regarding this for now, , at least until the rules change..I am not getting her anymore rabies vaccines again though.. I am refusing all others as well.. unless her titer bld test shows she needs boosters..i recommend the titer bld test highly to all pet owners. I also am eagar to learn how to rid the body of virus's!! I am very passionate about this and hope to read your upcoming posts about what you've discovered in your travels with a detox protocol too!! I am from Commack ny by the way.(born in queens ) I moved to Pittsburgh in 95. Your help is beyond appreciated! My vet has no interest in his patients obviously. its sad. - Jillian
Posted by Theresa
Mpls., Mn
12/09/2013
546 Posts
Hey Katie!

Just an FYI; my holistic guy has found that tetracycline is the antibiotic that best works on Lyme's. Many use instead the tetracycline derrivative Doxycycline; doxy will address the symptoms but does not fully erradicate the virus - so what happens is your dog appears to get better, but then slips back.

Probiotics are indicated after a long stretch of antibiotics [sure you already are aware].

Thanks as always for your informative and helpful replies!

Posted by Theresa
Mpls., Mn
12/09/2013
546 Posts
Hey Jillian!

Its so frustrating to read about your experiences with your holistic vet; perhaps its time to find a new vet! These ones are within an hour or so of you - and the right vet is for sure worth the drive!

This one looks promising, right in Beaver:

http://www.beaveranimalclinic.com/

This is a holistic practitioner in Greensburg:

www.kvetac.com
This one is in Beaver:
www.beaveranimalclinic.com
This one in Ellwood City has many possibilities:
www.ellwoodvet.com
South Hills right in Pittsburg does homeopathy, among other modalities.
Additionally Bradford Hills in Wexford is close by and does magnetic pulsating thereapy.
Posted by Jillian
Pittsburgh Pa
12/15/2013
3 Posts
Hi Katie, my apology for the long delay in my response. I am so sorry to hear your dog has been diagnosed with Lymes disease. As if you didn't have enough to worry about with the heart murmur!! I am rooting for you in getting excellent help for your dog with this disease! I am confident you will find the best treatment out there, given how dedicated you are to your pup! I thank you for relaying all the available options for vaccine damage/illness. Yes, its so true that my holistic vet asked if my dog ate something rather that own up to the fact it was the rabbies vaccine that got her sick. very lame holistic vet in my opinion and unfortunately , the only one in or around my area. If I hadn't found earth clinic and your protocol, I would be in a state of complete despair! everything has such a story to it, I try to stay to the point and not drone on for fear id be boring people to tears! but I am on board with the protocol. actually got the vet to special order the supplements you are using. He was reluctant to do it, (saying the pet line is identical to human line )...only difference he said, it was specifically made for animals due to dosing issues..and how animals need smaller amounts.. he was very very put off by my e mail explaining what I found out! (from your stories etc and protocol). He said no vitamin will cure a leaky heart valve. My dog hasn't gone to a cardiologist yet though , so we don't know for sure what she has.. I heard heart murmurs are subjective up to grade 3 . The vet said it is a grade 2. long story short, I asked a year ago what he thought of vaccine damage (due to my dog getting sick) and he e mailed back that he does not have any protocol for that!! crazy I know! hes a holistic vet and is clueless about any treatment for that? I also don't know if theres a connection to her last rabies shot and at time had a grade 1 murmur...now a year later its a grade 2. I vaguely recall naming a few treatments that seem like the same ones you sent me. He basically swept it under the rug. I then got him to agree to an immune system supplement (by standard process) and probiotic. (all at my suggestion bear in mind) Now that ive branched out and implementing a treatment for my dog, he is on the defense . I mentioned that a vet by the name of Dr.Martin Goldsein had written in his book that there are ways to treat a heart ailment and encouraged to do so immediately upon diagnosis...I mentioned your prototcol, , , dr.west...Dr.Sinatra etc. He was hostile in his response back to me (in an e-mail) saying how he had over 27 years of experience and if I wanted to listen to other people who didn't have as much knowledge as him, well then that was my choice. he also said he has never seen any heart murmur correct itself in all the years he treated thousands of animals. when I asked what he treated them with, he never replied back. such is the story of a Holistic vet gone wrong. I am not using him anymore after I get these supplements. Im taking zoey (my dog) to cardiologist this week for first appt. will report back what the findings are asap. please bear with any delays as this is an extra hectic time of year and I am not at my computer as much as I would like to be.: )

I wish you healing for your dog (with lymes disease) ..My prayers are with you and your best friend!! I will be looking on the posts to see how it is going for you and your dog!! Take care and thank you for all you do in reaching out to help others! ~ Jillian

Posted by Jillian
Pittsburgh Pa
12/15/2013
3 Posts
Hi Theresa! I wanted to thank you for your suggestions in trying to help me locate other holistic vets near me! Unfortunately, beaver animal clinic is the one where the holistic vet I use (d) is... : ( He is on his way to being History very soon. he needed to be dropped like a hot potato after having expressed no interest in helping my dog with her heart murmur. I just needed him to special order me the SP supplements first.(the protocol Katie is using) this vet is not happy with my insisting on doing this protocol, and I realize he is threatened by my learning other ways to holistically treat heart ailments... his insists there is nothing anyone can do to heal a leaky heart valve.. nor is there any supplement that will help. it is quite sad that a so called holistic Dr.does not take an aggressive approach in treating heart ailments.. also, regarding the supplements, I will eventually order them through amazon.com but I needed them quick and strangely, he was too eager to special order them for me? (that was not expected) Theresa, I am very appreciative for your thoughtfulness in letting me know about other vets to check out though. there was one other one I did not recognize and will look them up asap. I have been contemplating traveling to NY to see Dr.Martin Goldstein (Holistic vet). he wrote an excellent book which I have , called the nature of animal healing. He strongly advocates for holistic treatment in ANY heart ailment. P.S. apologies for the delay in replying back.

I am taking my dog to a cardiologist for her first echo possibly this week. will write back when I get new information and more detail on what exactly she has wrong with her heart. take care, Jillian

Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny
12/16/2013
Jillian, so sorry to hear about that awful vet but glad to hear that you're looking for a replacement. I had a “sell-out” vet that also claimed to be “holistic”. Unbelievably, he would try to stick my dog with a vaccine the second my head was turned. He also claimed that kibble was healthy for dogs. I soon realized that he was a sell-out (just like your's), and that the “holistic” designation he used was just a marketing tool which allowed him to charge more for his office visits.

I do believe that there is a connection between vaccines and heart murmurs (and liver problems too). I've known too many people with small dogs who are disproportionately affected with both these problems. Did you know that a small 5 lb. dog gets the same size vaccination as a 120 lb. dog? They each get usually a 1 ml. dose. Unbelievable. My dog has high liver enzymes (which he's had since he was a pup) and I attribute them to the vaccines. My vet and I will turn our attention to that (probably homeopathically) once his Lyme disease is under control. See the attached by Dr. Jean Dodds..http://www.dogs4dogs.com

Anyway, don't want to turn the focus of this Heart Murmur post into a string of Vaccines posts (there's a Vaccine forum for that) but did want to quickly mention that if your dog also has high liver enzymes you might want to think giving him some liver support such as Milk Thistle. This may also help to purge the liver of some of the toxins she's dealing with from that vaccine.

Good luck with Zoey!

Posted by Theresa
Mpls., Mn
12/16/2013
546 Posts
Hey Jillian!

I am familiar with Dr. Marty Goldstein's works - he is awesome! Do let us know if you can get his opinion on a treatment plan for your dog's heart murmur - and let us know what the cardiologist finds also!

Thanks!

Posted by Theresa
Mpls., Mn
12/17/2013
546 Posts
Hey Katie!

I could not find the article you linked re: Dr. Dodd's. FWIW this is from her website re: vaccination protocol et al:

http://drjeandoddspethealthresource.tumblr.com/post/66693331640/dodds-dog-vaccination-protocol-2013-2014

It's disappointing to read about both of your holistic vets. Perhaps the take away here is that like any person you hire for a service, they must be screened and qualified so you know just what you are getting. Sadly, too many take what they see advertised at face value: all the bags of kibble say they promote good health, but the wheat is sorted from the chaff when you read the ingredient label; deteremine from there where to spend your buying dollar to keep your pet well nourished and fed.

I certainly understand you are vaccination wary and with good reason; vaccines can be a good thing - and then there is "too much" of a good thing in over vaccinating and vaccinating when it's simply not necessary. That said, elevated liver enzymes are often seen as a symptom of an underlying cardiac issue and not the other way around. While its certainly possible vaccination may have contributed to a cardiac issue, and in turn caused a liver issue, the data collected does not show a disproprtionate number of small breeds affected with cardiac issues - sadly these issues are in all sorts of sized breeds:

http://www.offa.org/stats_cardiac.html

In my experience with vaccinosis, the symptoms manifest 6-12 weeks after the poke - so 'regular' vets fail to associate the disease symptom with the cause/vaccine. And the symptoms range all across the board, from skin issues to coming into heat super early or not at all. The pattern is the same however; yeast in the body over grows - in a particular organ or systemic - and the toxins released compound causing greater issues down the line.

One approach to cleansing for vaccinosis would be dosing with homeopathic thuja, and then following up with acidophillus/probiotics to address the yeast over growth. Dosing Milk Thistle for the liver is an excellent idea, or consider SP Betafood also - but unless the yeast is addressed you may end up treading water - holding even but not moving forward. JMHO!

More reading for those interested in this topic:

http://www.dogsadversereactions.com/vaccines/vaccineDamage.html

Posted by Midnight
Willow, Ak
01/04/2014
[YEA]   To Katie: my name is Debbie. I have a pomeranian that has chf. I was told this in June 2012, she just turned 10 back in August. My vet told me that she was between 2-3 stage. I know she is getting worse this last week because her gagging is worse. She is on Enalapril 2.5 mg per day, Furosemide 25mg a day, and vetmedin 2.5 mg a day. Plus I have her on. supplement called Total Heart which she gets 2 tablet a day. I know that the meds are taking things out of her body that she needs because she has been eating a lot more than she ever has in her life. I want to get her off the meds and on the supplements that you have your dog on (which I have ordered), but I want to know how to do it. Once I get the supplements should I start with half of what she needs (half what you give your dog because she weights 10lbs) and take away half of the meds or start full supplements and half meds for a couple of weeks and then 1/4 meds for a week then off totally. I have had Midnight since she was 13 weeks old and she is my baby, please help me. My email is comet62 (at) gci (dot) net. Thanks.
Posted by Katie
Northport, New York
01/05/2014
Hi Debbie,

I am sorry to hear about your dog’s congestive heart failure. Because CHF is more serious than a murmur, you would want to increase the dosage on some of the supplements – mainly the Cardio-Plus and the Cataplex B. In CHF, the amount given would be basically doubled for Cardio-Plus and Cataplex B.

You also may want to consider fish oil or cod liver oil for CHF. See the attached article by Dr. Mercola. They sell a Kid’s Krill which would be a good size for a small animal. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/09/18/fish-oil-is-better-than-drugs-for-preventing-heart-failure.aspx

So, if this were my dog (and he weighed 10 lbs), I would probably give him the following: Cardio-Plus (4/day); Cataplex B (4/day), Organic Minerals (1 or 2/day); Cataplex F (2/day); Calcium Lactate (2/day); Mercola Kiddie Krill Oil (1/day) or Blue Ice Fermented Cod Liver Oil (1/day).

With the Cardio-Plus and Cataplex B dosages I would divide them into 3 separate dosages during the day (morning, afternoon and eve) to keep the nutrition in your dog’s body all day long. If you feel that you dog needs extra Cardio-Plus or Cataplex B during this CHF stage I think you could probably increase the dosage by a tab or two.

I would give these to my dog in the following way. I would give the supplements at the full dosage above, along with his prescribed medications. If you don’t feel comfortable starting them all at the same time, then start by giving maybe half of them, then increasing to the full dose after a couple of days or a week. Do not lower or change the amount of his meds though. I would continue this until you notice that your dog starts to improve and his heart gets stronger (you would probably hear less coughing, he’ll have more energy, will probably sleep better at night and be more comfortable when laying down). The heart should then start to shrink back to a normal size and the fluids in his lungs should start to disburse. At this point, I would then start to work with my vet to safely start weaning my dog off his meds, but this has to be done slowly. You should not stop the prescriptions on your own -this could cause serious harm. The body becomes dependent on these drugs. The reason I say this is because in my own experience and desperation to help my own dog, I tried to start cutting back on his meds on two occasions and both times it landed him back in the hospital with flooded lungs and abdomen. So, work with your vet on this.

My feeling is that your dog should probably be on these supplements for a couple of months(?) before attempting to withdraw him from his meds. However, I am just guessing at the timeframe, because I am not physically with your dog to observe him or his progress. You will need to be his observer. So when you think he is sufficiently improving, that will be the time to bring him back to your vet/cardiologist to start the weaning process. For humans the recommendation is usually after 3 or 4 months. Remember that this has to be done slowly. I was told that the longer an animal is on a med the longer it will take to get him off of it.

Once your dog is weaned off all his drugs that would be the time where you could start to cut back on the number of supplements you’re giving him. Depending on his progress, you might be able to cut back to 2-CardioPlus, 2-Cataplex B, 1-Organic Mineral, 1 Cataplex F and 1-Calcium Lactate. At this point the cod liver oil or fish oil may or may not be needed – that would be your call.

Posted by Ray
Williamsport Md
03/05/2014
[YEA]   Katie and all dog lovers, please advise me on dosages of your routine for a 115lb Great Dane. As we speak Hunter is at the vets getting x-rays and blood work but they have already told me he has stage 5 murmurs. He is approx. 10yrs old and has diarrhea, no appetite and labored breathing, not sure of bpm. The vet is going to put him on a diuretic and some other meds, I haven't gotten the prescriptions yet. I read some of the postings about the diuretics robbing the body of some nutrients and preventing it from absorbing some of the things you suggest. Please let me know asap as I don't want to start him on the vet meds if the holistic meds work better without them. Thanks to all and god bless.
Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny
03/05/2014
I am very sorry to hear about your dog's condition - it sounds like it may be CHF. I came across the website of a woman a while ago who raises Great Danes (The Great Dane Lady) and she mentioned that cardiomyopathy is a heart condition that seems to run in this breed. I'm wondering if this is what your dog may have? Cardiomyopathy is said to be a condition in which the heart muscle deteriorates and thickens. I have read, however, that cardiomyopathy is also considered to be brought about by the same severe nutritional deficiencies as most other heart conditions.

Because your dog is so big, and given the seriousness of his condition right now, I would probably give him the following daily: anywhere from 9-15 tabs of CardioPlus, 6-12 tabs of Cataplex B, and 3-4 tabs of Organically Bound Minerals. I have read that for humans with congestive heart failure (and also with cardiomyopathy) that it is also recommended to take 3-4 tabs of Folic Acid B12, along with or cod liver oil or flax oil. So I think I would also give the Folic Acid B12 (I don't see how people are much different from dogs) and I would also give the cod liver oil, as I think it helps with the blood pressure. I'm not sure how much cod liver oil or flax oil should be given to your dog though….I'm guessing maybe 1 tsp. twice a day?…or give a couple of 500 mg. capsules perhaps? When my 15 lb. dog was sick his cardiologist recommended that I give him 1-500 mg. capsule a day. The dosages listed above should be divided between 2 or 3 daily doses. I would think that it's best to give the divided doses with meals – and to take them away from medications, if possible.

Hopefully, once there's improvement with your dog, then you would be able to lower the amount of supplements, but I would think this would take a couple of months before you would be able to do that.

I'm wishing the best for your dog and I hope that this helps him.

Posted by Sherry
Dallas, Tx
03/09/2014
5 Posts
To Katie from Northport Ny - I need your help please my 9 yr old Maltese was has a #5 heart murmur her liver and kidneys and lungs are all good but she does have a cough which she does only during the day. She has been examined by a cardiologist and this is how we found it. I do have a holistic vet. I have Missy on Frenchie's kitchen food per her vet and she want to put her on Enalapril 2.5mg once every 12 hours which I don't want. Can you please email me at sdrrak(at)aol(dot)com so we can talk about what u are giving you fur baby...please please email me and in the Subject line put Help for Missy.

Sincerely, Sherry R

Posted by Mitchell1383
Oahu
03/24/2014
[YEA]   I have been reading through all the positive remarks and have hope for my little Chewy. She is an 10.5 yr old chihuahua. She has a grade 5 heart murmur. The vet also said she has an enlarged heart. She is currently on enalapril half a pill a day and lasix half a pill a day. Lately she seems to be trying to catch her breath more and it seems so hard for her. I'm really starting to worry. my research has led me to this forum and I am very interested in taking a holistic approach. I'm new to this and would greatly appreciate your advice on where to start. Thank you! My email is normamitchell Dot hotmail.com.
Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny
03/28/2014
Sherry,

I am sorry to hear about your dog - it sounds like your dog might have mild congestive heart failure from the symptoms you described. From everything I've read, a person or animal being treated for an enlarged heart, along with (possible) congestive heart failure would be supplemented differently than a person or animal that has a regular low grade murmur, which is what I am currently treating my dog for (that is, no heart enlargement and no fluid retention). So, I wouldn't give most of the Calcium Lactate, Cataplex F or Immuplex. For humans, the basic supplements that are recommended for congestive heart failure are: Cardio-Plus, Cataplex B and Organically Bound Minerals, along with Folic Acid B12 and either Flax Oil or Cod Liver Oil.

So, if Missy were my 10 lb. dog, I would probably give her the following supplements, in the following dosages: Cardio-Plus (3-4 day), Cataplex B (2/day) and Organically Bound Minerals (1/day). I don't think I would give the Folic Acid B12, even though I mentioned in an earlier post that I might. I think I would rather keep it simple and not add too many supplements. And, I think I would also give the cod liver oil (Blue Ice Fermented cod liver oil), as it helps with the blood pressure. As mentioned in an earlier post my previous cardiologist suggested a 500 mg. fish oil capsule for my dog when he was in CHF, however, I never gave it to him. I think I would also give Missy CoQ-10 in the hydrosoluable gel capsule form. This is the type that Dr. Sinatra recommends in his books. I would give either Quino-Gel (50 mg., twice a day), which is considered an advanced hydrosoluable form of CoQ10/ubiquinol. Or, you can give the Q-Gel formulation (which is also water soluable but it is a CoQ10/ubiquinone formula). Just look for Q-Gel anywhere on the label. If you give the Q-Gel formulation you can probably give her 100 mg twice a day because it's not as absorbable as the Quino Gel. CoQ10 is also very safe so you don't have to worry about giving a large dose of it. BTW, CoQ10 will also help to lower blood pressure.

I believe that Enalapril is mostly prescribed for high blood pressure and for CHF. So, when starting her supplements, I would start them slowly and watch her carefully. You might want to try giving them away from meds at first? The reason is that that the supplements may start to lower her blood pressure naturally (along with the fish oil) and you don't want them to negatively interact with her meds by dropping her blood pressure too much. If you find that that is the case, you may need to have her enalapril dosage lowered. FYI, my 15 lb dog was initially on 2.5 mg of enalapril (same as yours) but it had to be lowered to 1.25 mg twice daily because it dropped his blood pressure too low.

I hope this can help your dog.

Posted by Shrichar
Dallas, TX
03/28/2014
5 Posts
Th Katie and anyone that has been following Katie. I have a 9yr old Maltese named Missy she is my heart every time I look at her I just cry because if her first holistic vet would of just taken the time and listened to her and what I was saying this could have been caught in its early stages but now it's too late and she has a stage 5 heart murmur which was confirmed when I took her to the cardiologist a mouth ago. I couldn't hardly comprehend what the cardiologist was saying because I was crying all I could think about is she to young for this this can't be happening. I have since found another holistic vet and hope she can help but I'm not just leaving it in her hands that is why I'm here looking and praying for help.

The valvular heart disease they said its stage 5 and her heart is enlarged and is pushing on her airway which is making her cough she is not in CHF and she has no fluid on her lungs she has started Enalapril 2.5mg tablets every 12 hours and her food is now Frenchies Kitchen. Missy is also on canine cardiac support the new vet started her on it ASAP. She went back to the cardiologist 3/26/14 and she was good still no fluids on the lungs and the coughing is still here the doc said I need to stay monitoring her breathing at rest time because the next step is cough suppressant that has codeine in it and that if we don't know her breathing then she could get fluid on her lungs and go into CHF. I don't want her on any meds if I can find another way. I have been following Katie on here and I have written down everything she is using the cardio plus, cataplex b, cataplexy f, calcium lactate, organically bound minerals, canine whole body support, immuplex, cataplexy e2.

Katie can the above help my little girl if so with her weight being 10 lbs how much of each do I give her....Please respond and thank you.

Sherry

Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny
03/29/2014
I just wanted to clarify some information on CoQ-10 (although I had done this in a previous post). When using CoQ-10 (ubiquinone), it is recommended that you use the reduced form which is called ubiquinol. According to research it is a much more effective form of CoQ-10. However, if you choose to use plain CoQ-10 (or ubiquinone), only use it in the hydrosoluable liquid capsule form – such as the Q-Gel formulation which has made it much more absorbable. So the recommendations are as follows:

  • Quino-Gel (water soluable ubiquinol) – Most advanced form of CoQ-10 available today. Recommended for individuals with advanced needs.
  • Ubiquinol (reduced form of CoQ-10) – Far more effective than CoQ10 (or ubiquinone), Highly recommended by Dr. Mercola and others.
  • Q-Gel CoQ-10 (hydrosoluable ubiquinone) – Advanced form of ubiquinone. Was made water soluable so that the body can absorb it more easily than plain CoQ-10 (or ubiquinone). Look for Q-Gel anywhere on the label.
  • CoQ-10 (or ubiquinone) – Not recommended, poorly absorbed by the body.

Katie

Posted by Shrichar
Dallas, Tx
03/30/2014
5 Posts
Hi Katie,

I just read your email and thank you. Can you please email me at sdrrak (at) aol (dot) com and in the subject line put "Missy" just in case it goes to spam. I would really like to actually talk with u personally and I will give u my phone # in a reply email. Regards, Sherry R

Posted by Marci
Los Angeles, Ca
05/26/2014
Hi Katie,

i have been following your posts and am extremely interested. I was wondering if your regimen is only for dogs? My cat is showing symptoms of ARVC (Arrhythmogenic right ventricular cardiomyopathy). He's not even 2 yet, and our cardiologist does not know the underlying cause. He is currently on pimobendan 1.25 every 12 hours and furosemide 12.5 every 12 hours. In five days our cardiologist saw no fluid around his lungs so he suggested we try 1 lasix per day unless we saw a change in his breathing. It took 5 days but it seemed like his breathing was heavier so we decided to do the lasix twice per day again. I went to a holistic vet who gave us standard process feline cardiac support. I have also decided to use coq10 ubiquinol, d ribose, taurine, nattokinase. I was wondering if your regimen works for cats? If so, what are the dosages? Thank you so much in advance.

Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny
06/02/2014
Marci, I am sorry to hear about your cat's heart condition.

My hope is that some of the information I've shared here on EC would also be helpful to animals in CHF (or an animal that is close to it), but I have no way of knowing if it will. Much of what I've posted here are protocols used by other medical professionals who have had good success with them in humans. However, I personally do not have any actual experience in treating an animal with CHF or getting one out of CHF. My "real-time" experience to date has only been in treating my dog's heart murmur and keeping him out of CHF so that he doesn't succumb to it, like my other Cavalier did.

Posted by Marci
La, Ca
06/02/2014
Hi Katie... Thank you very much for your reply, I really appreciate it. It's nice to know that folks on EC are responsive, caring, and helpful. I hope your dog is doing well. He's very lucky to have you. Take care.
Posted by Katie
Northport, Ny
06/02/2014
Marci,

I am sorry to hear about your cat's heart condition.

My hope is that some of the information I’ve shared here on EC would also be helpful to animals in CHF (or an animal that is close to it), but I have no way of knowing if it will. Much of what I've posted here are protocols used by other medical professionals who have had good success with them in humans. However, I personally do not have any actual experience in treating an animal with CHF or getting one out of CHF. My "real-time" experience to date has only been in treating my dog's heart murmur and keeping him out of CHF so that he doesn’t succumb to it, like my other Cavalier did.

Posted by Aurora5
Los Angeles
08/26/2014
To: Andrea C in Wales - What in the world are you feeding your dog that has allowed him to be 27 years old and still acting like a puppy? I'm desperate to learn!!!

Pulmonary Valve Stenosis   0  0   

Posted by Msbodhi (Westport, Ct) on 04/11/2013

9 week old puppy with a severe Pulmonary Valve Stenosis:

Hello! So glad to have found this website. I am overwhelmed with the amount of information I am reading about raw diet as well as supplements. I need help! First off, I just purchased a puppy from a breeder last week who turned out to have a severe heart murmur. I don't recall the vet grading it but they did say it was severe and probably needed surgery. I want to make this puppy healthy and avoid giving her medications and surgery. I have a solid 8 months before I have to decide on this surgery so I want to do my best for her! Her PG=100mmHg which is a high level. Right now she shows no clinical signs and I would like to keep it that way.

What can you recommend for me?? I used to take the standard process line myself which I find amazing. I didn't know they had a pet line. I also would like help switching her to a raw diet and need to know how to figure out the measurements etc.

There is so much information on this site it is wonderful. I need help for my pup!

Please contact me as soon as possible.

Posted by Linda
Anoka, Mn
04/15/2013
5 Posts
Check out homemadedogfood.com for recipes. I switched my two boxers to that and they love it! It also helps itchy skin and they smell better.
Posted by Guest
Florida Fort Myers
11/11/2013
hello, saw your post , , , , , our dog , , , is only a 8 week old , , , bluenose pit , , , and he was diagnosed with #4 heart murmurs , , , on both sides of the heart... They said it might go away with growing older , , but the chances are not good that'll happen , , they recommend him to a cardiologist ......then possibly surger. I'm willing to try the holistic approached , , , since I myself am really into natural cures for humans and dogs ..

Please anything you can suggest would be great ..

This is what someone suggested on the website .. what is your opinion of these supps .?

  • D-Ribose - By Doctor' Best. 1 heaping scoop, (twice a day sprinkle on food).
  • Ubiquinol QH-absorb (CoQ10) - By Jarrow Formulas 200mg, (1 pill twice a day)
  • Propionyl-L-Carnitine HCI – By Jarrow Formulas 750 mg, (1 pill twice a day)
  • Magnesium Taurate – By Cardiovascular Research -125 mg, (1 pill a day)
  • Mega Red Extra Strength Krill Oil, - By Schiff, 500mg (1 pill twice a day)
  • L-Arginine - By Jarrow Formulas, 1000 mg (1 pill a day)
  • Colon Green Fiber Supplement with Probiotics and Enzymes, - By Futurebiotics (Sprinkle 2 pills twice a day)
  • Esther C Vegetarian Capsules, - By American Health 500mg (1 pill twice a day)
  • Milk Thistle, 200mg (1 pill twice a day)
  • Senior Vitality Multi Vitamin, - By Optimal Pet (1 pill a day)

Thank you.

Posted by Theresa
Mpls., Mn
11/12/2013
546 Posts
Hey Blue-nosed Pit Pup Person!

A couple of thoughts for you.

First things first: If you are indeed dealing with a serious congenital cardiac issue with your puppy you should inform your breeder ASAP. Your pup's sire and dam each carry the trait and should never be bred to the other again - else they will produce more unhealthy puppies and further heart break to those who buy them. Your breeder may also wish to contact those people who have littermates to check to see if any other pup in the litter is affected.

Next, it's difficult to recommend *how* to move forward without a proper diagnosis.

Most any vet can grade a heart murmur; the part that requires the cardiologist and the expensive diagnostics is determining the murmur's importance and long term prognosis. If your vet is not highly skilled, the diagnosis could be way off base; this would make a grade 2 innocent murmur appear like a serious congenital defect, ie grade 4.

I'm leery of bombarding a baby with all the supplements you listed; don't get me wrong - they look like 'good stuff', but all at once and the dosages listed might result in side effects that may further cloud the issue: I would hold off on them for a little bit to determine if they are actually needed.

If this were my puppy I would first make sure he is healthy in all other areas of his life. He needs to be wormed and parasite free - so keep up the wormings [every 2 weeks for 3 treatments]; he should be on high quality groceries - no grocery store kibble, and probably on adult chow, not puppy chow. Things like the stress of a new home, being removed from the litter, changes in diet and routine all have an impact on your puppy's health and may contribute to a temporary murmur condition. So give your puppy a chance to settle in his new home and make sure he is thriving. Keep an eye out for demodex [red mange] - and while allowing him exercise and sunshine do not let him over do it. And then wait. Wait until 12 or 16 weeks and bring him back for his boosters and have the vet take another listen to see if the murmur has graded down or changed in any way. It also would not hurt to get a second opinion - so if you saw a partner at the clinic, have the owner do the re-check exam. If at 12 or 16 weeks you still have a grade 4, then a specialist is indicated - to determine the importance of the murmur and the long term prognosis: at this point you will have the information necessary to build your nutritional arsenal.

Please keep us posted!

Websites you may wish to read and review:

http://www.2ndchance.info/sas.htm

http://www.vcahospitals.com/main/pet-health-information/article/animal-health/heart-murmurs-in-dogs/3912

http://www.michvet.com/Client Education Handouts/Cardio/Congenital Heart Disease.pdf

http://swfveterinaryspecialists.com/w/

Steroids   0  1   

Posted by William (Clewiston, Fl, US) on 04/11/2013

[NAY]  I took my cat to the vet for eye irritation I thought it might be an infection at first but it was only on the upper and lower lid not on the eye itself. The vet had seen the cat before he had diagnosed her with a heart murmur years ago but she was doing great. When I got her to the vet he said it was an allergic reaction, he really did not know what to , he gave her a steroid shot and an antibiotic. ShE slept all that evening and all the next day , not eating or drinking anything, that afternoon or early evening I notice she was breather heavier than usual I needed up taking her to an emergency clinic an hour away and barely got her there fluid was building up in her lungs. And heart was failing. From what I have read so far cats with known heart murmurs should not be given steroids because it causes just that , water build up in th e lungs and heart failure , has anyone else run across this?

Supplements   0  0   

Posted by John (Avalon Beach, New South Wales, Australia) on 08/17/2014

Sam the dog 12 is a small terrier, 8kg has been diagnosed with a heart murmur. Fluid around the heart had reduced the tracia causing constant wheezing and a hacking cough. He is now on Vetmedin 5mg, Bricanyl 5ml and Frudix. I want to get him on to natural medication, CoQ10 and Red Clover seems the way to go but in what amounts and can any one recommend any other remedies?

Posted by Om
Hope, Bc Canada
08/17/2014
Have a little dog and give him Hawthorn tincture. This can be combined with CoQ10. It can be five drops twice a day. The Hawthorn, about five drops in water by syringe. It worked well with another dog and takes about several weeks to strengthen the heart. This is a very old reliable remedy. Look it up online.

Please stay away from modern drugs. Just as a suggestion.

Namaste, Om

Posted by Trouble (Dubai, United Arab Emirates) on 09/19/2013

URGENT AM BEGGING MY 14 YEAR OLD PEKENGESE HAS MITRAL VALVE DISEASE, HEART ENLARGEMENT AND HEART MUMUR

My 14 year old precious fur baby has been diagnosed with Mitral Valve Disease and heart enlargement. He has graded a heart mummer btw 1-2 and also says the thorax is now parallel to the spine as the heart has grown. Below are the reports

Radiography Report;

Lateral (sin-dex) and ventro-dorsal views of the chest:

- Enlargement of the cardiac silhouette,

- Increased sterno-cardiac contact,

- Trachea pushed dorsally and parallel to the spine

- No evidence of pulmonary edema on these views.

Ultrasonography Report

Cardiac Ultrasonography:

- The right atrium appears to be normal in size (no enlargement) compare to the left atrium.

- RA measured 1. 25 x 1. 2 cm

- Thickened mitral valve with very mild mitral regurgitation.

- No dilated cardiomyopathy,

- No hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

All images consistent with an early stage of Mitral valve disease.

The vet has prescribed Fortekor (Benazepril Hydrochloride) 2. 5mg a day and Furosemide 20 mg twice a day.

My dog started off with cluster seizures for a day last year in Oct 2012 he was in Kepra for a few months and then we weaned him off. Early Feb this year every night when we went to sleep he would pant incessantly having sleepless nights eyes big and wide he would ask to go out then come back in then pance he did not know what he wanted. He was irritable and started loosing muscle. We took him for bloods everything was perfect We did a chext xray and an abdomen scan and heart disease was detected. Now I have been a firm believer of earth clinic for years.

Please advise me am I doing the right thing.

I have deceided not to give him a diruetic twice a day as he already starting getting muscle pulls and then gets all stressed and panting begins. I am instead going to give him 1 diruetic a day and then go down to half a day in conjunction with a homepathic diruetic But I want to do away with the diruetic tablet so how can I do this naturally along with the homeopathic drops? I live in Dubai so dandelion tea etc is not the best option can someone please give me various options?

The Foretekor for his heart I will give him 2. 5 a day in conjunction with a homeopathic medication called Rytmopasc

My dog weighs 5kgs

I am giving him 100 mg of vit c with rose hips

100mg of Magnesium

20mg of COQ 10 as Ubiquinone

1tsp of D-Ribose

2mg of Zinc

500mg of L-Arginine

I read somwhere that Propionyle L-Carnitine is very good what is the difference btw Propionyle L-Carnitine and L-Carnitine? can I give L-Carnitine and how much ?

I will buy Milk Thistle 200 mg and supplement him with it

I also bought Manuka honey how much do I give him ?

Have I missed out something?Help me please I need your valuable input. August

Posted by Theresa
Mpls., Mn
09/20/2013
546 Posts
August, I am so sorry to hear about your Peke's declining health. He is 14 - so very old! And clearly a testament to your good care of him.

MVD is grouped as an 'old dog disease' however it disportionately affects Cavalier King Charles Spaniels. There is MUCH good information about MVD at this health site for cavaliers:

http://cavalierhealth.org/mitral_valve_disease.htm

The onset of panting at night this past February along with the confusion and large eyes - in hindsight - was from his heart disease. From what you describe, your boy is at Stage B; stage D is end stage, and life expectancy on average from this diagnosis is 3-5 years.

I agree there is concern over using Furosemide; the human drug torsemide (Demadex) is an excellent alternative and considered more potent.

Natural diuretics include urea, Wu Ling San, and Alisma, both traditional Chinese herbal medicines (TCM). Holistic supplements should be taken only if prescribed by a licensed veterinarian who also is holistically trained in TCM.

Again, please review the website for Cavaliers with this genetic condition - it has far too much information to post here and you should review it in depth as it discusses additional medications and the pros and cons and efficacy of each, as well as provide a game plan for you to best support your boy at each step of this journey.

Posted by Dawn882
Maryland
01/29/2014
I have an 8 pound cat who has been diagnosed with CHF and has a build up of abdominal fluid. What would be the dosage of A-C Carbamide for him? I also plan to give him Heart and Circulation Tonic. Thank You for your help!
Posted by Theresa
Mpls., Mn
01/29/2014
546 Posts
Hey Dawn!

A-C Carbamide is a Standard Process product - and Standard Process products are only available by prescription through doctors and veterinarians; are you working with a vet to obtain this product? If so, you may wish to consult your vet as to the appropriate dose as the bottle only reads "3 capsules per day or as directed". That said, my vet has prescribed many Standard Process products to my critters, and 1 capsule 2 times a day would be a standard dose for this product.

You may wish to stagger when you dose the herbal A-C Carbamide and the homeopathic Petalive Heart and Circulation Tonic as dosing at the same time might result in one remedy preventing the other remedy from working properly.

Posted by Michele
Kings Park, Ny
02/02/2014
Hi Katie from Northport.

I'm going to the cardiologist tomorrow for my cavalier. The vet heard a murmur last week for the first time. I want to start him on these supplements and new diet ASAP. He is 8 years old. Since I am in the next town over, who is your holistic vet? I want to contact him/her. Thank you so much for all your info. I have been so nervous about this visit tomorrow and reading your messages has calmed me. I can't wait to start helping my little guy.

Posted by Shrichar
Dallas, TX
03/11/2014
5 Posts
Hi Katie from Northport

I need help with my little Maltese girl Missy she has a stage 5 heart murmur. She has been to the cardiologist and they have done all the test and want to start her on imutrill (not sure of the spelling but it will keep her from coughing and slow done the murmur and even her holistic vet has agreed to this drug for now but will take her off of it slowly and put her on herbs. Her first holistic vet mention to me that she had a murmur but didn't start treating her for it that is why I looked for another holistic vet and that is when she sent me to the cardiologist to see what stage she was in and she want to whin her off the herbs the first vet has her on and then start the imutrill then whin her off that and start other herbs. What do you think? if you like you can email me at sdrrak@aol.com and in the subject link put in Missy's name just in case it goes to my spam box. Regards and many thanks Sherry R.

Posted by Brenda
Freehold, Nj
04/22/2014
Hi, I so appreciate reading all of the messages on this site. It is nice to know that I am not alone in researching and using alternative treatments for my dogs. I have a 13 year old Chihuahua who was diagnosed with a heart murmur, enlarged heart, and cardio valve disease. About a year ago, my Zoey fainted along with that horrific screeching sound. It was so frightening. I took her to the cardiologist who diagnosed her with the cardio valve disease and enlarged heart. He suggested that she be placed on meds. After researching the meds and their side effects (why would one med be given for the heart if it causes the failure of the kidneys??) , I decided to find alternative means. I found a website: 5 Leaf Pharmacy and began following the protocol for the heart murmur.

I now make her dog food with ground turkey or chopped chicken, ginger powder, organic mixed vegetables, powdered greens, brown rice, oatmeal or Quinoa. No salt is added to any of her food. Sometimes I add spinach, but then heard that dogs had a difficult time processing it, so I do not put it in anymore. I also add wild salmon oil. She also takes a daily vitamin.

Three-four times a day I add the following to the food/snack:

1) powdered ginger

2) powdered greens

3) powdered Taurine (1/4 scoop for 8 lb.dog)

4) powdered L-Carnitine (1/2 scoop for 8 lb. dog)

5) Five Leaf Pharmacy Hawthorne liquid supplement ( 1 drop per pound of dog weight)

6) Five Leaf Pharmacy Canine Heart Tonic (1 drop per pound of dog weight)

Cayenne powder was also recommended, but my dog does not like it.

* If your dog is suffering from kidney failure, they also carry Rena-Clean and Immuno-Aid.

At my last vet visit, my vet told me to continue doing what I was doing. That was 8 months ago. She is due to be seen again this week.

She has had very few episodes of syncope (fainting) and her breathing is not as labored.

She eats well and is having a much better quality of life. We'll see what the vet says when I take her in this week.

I know there is no cure for this disease, but I am very happy that she continues to have a quality life for over a year now, especially when a year ago, the prognosis was not a good one. Hope this helps anyone else who is looking for answers to improve their dog's heart condition.

Posted by Theresa
Mpls., Mn
04/23/2014
546 Posts
Hey Brenda!

Thank you so much for sharing your CHF protocol! I know others experiencing this condition with their pets will benefit.

:) :) :)

Posted by Malia
Hawaii
06/08/2014
Hi Brenda - How has your dog been doing on your regimen? I have a little Pom who was diagnosed with an enlarged heart recently and trying to get her off her meds and onto a more holistic approach.

Thanks!

Posted by Caireboo
Oxfordshire
10/12/2014
3 Posts
UK BASED CAVALIER KING CHARLES AGE 7 PLS HELP!

My 7 yr. 4 m.o CKC Spaniel was diagnosed with a heart murmur at a very young age but I was told it was common for the breed and not to worry as it often doesn't progress.

January this year I noticed that when my dog was on my lap I could feel his heart pounding through his chest. I took him back to my vets and they immediately put him on Cardisure (Vetmedin) 2.5 mg every 12 hrs. I now realise that as he was showing no clinical signs, this was wrong. My dog has always been huge for a CKC and although not hugely fat weighed nearly 17kg. May this year my Mum (who lived with me with her CKC spaniel) suddenly passed away. Both dogs lost weight through stress but Boo, the heart murmur sufferer, lost 7 kg and is struggling to maintain weight (he is 24 pounds now and as he is a big dog his ribs show).

Does anyone know of incidents of cardiac cachexia in dogs prescribed vetmedin too early or is this a natural progression of his murmur? Then on Tuseday Boo started coughing and wrenching, I was told it was an infection and to keep an eye on him he was injected with antibiotic and anti inflammatory. Thursday he was struggling to breathe so I rushed him in and it was discovered he had fluid on his right lung so they have prescribed furosemide 200 mg every 12 hrs for five days. I have no idea what stage the heart murmur is at except for a few guesses which change massively each time. My vets are so kind and helpful but I feel I need to educate myself to get the best treatment if that makes sense.

I feel terrified, lost, and desperate. The more I read the more confused I become and my head is like cotton wool unable to retain information as it means so very much. I adore all dogs, heck all animals, but Boo is special. He knows my moods before I even know, he is with me every second of every day (if I shut the toilet door he cries) and is helping me through the crippling grief I'm suffering since losing my mum / best friend. The thought of losing him at the moment is just too much.

In the UK, or certainly where I am, one is not sent to a cardiologist, the vet just deals with you and there are only a few holistic vets in the country and none near me. The standard process nutrients look incredible but to get them shipped here is prohibitevly expensive. I will bankrupt myself quite happily for Boo but need to ensure I'm doing the right thing.

Is there anyone in the UK esp. near North Oxfordshire who can help?

Also any advice on supplements specific to my dog would be greatly appreciated. Basically if anyone who can suggest anything to help I would be beyond grateful. I will be speaking to the vet over the next few days and am trying to compile a list of questions to ask about medication, tests and treatment so anything anyone could add would be wonderful. Sorry for the diatribe but I'm desperate.

Posted by Theresa
Mpls., Mn
10/12/2014
546 Posts
Hey Caireboo!

This is a comprehensive site for all things Cavalier: http://www.cavalierhealth.org/

Read up and educate yourself on your dog's heart condition - the site covers the medications and explains the symptoms in great detail.

If you read the EC pages on heart murmurs and CHF you will be able to get an idea of what others have done holistically for their pets.

In your shoes - in the shoes of anyone with an acute diagnosis and acute symptoms - I am all for the drugs the vet prescribes because they tend to act *quickly* whereas most of the nutritional or holistic remedies take time to work - and in acute cases you may not have very much time for the natural remedies to work.

I will let the others with hands on experience take over with replies.

Sending healing prayers for you and Boo.

Posted by Caireboo
Oxfordshire, UK
10/14/2014
3 Posts
Theresa, I am so very grateful for your fast reply. Boo just had his X-ray and ultrasound and is in CHF with an LA:ao ratio of 2.2. He is to stay on cardisure and furusemide and is also to start nelio ace inhibitor and spironolactone. I am terrified to make the wrong decision but agree that at this point the meds are best to get him immediate help. Reading that spironolactone is a carcinogen terrifies me, Infact all the side effects do. I greatly wish I'd found this site earlier. If anyone else has experience with a dog at this stage of CHF please share anything of use. I will do anything it takes to help my baby. Thankfully at the moment he seems unaware. He is taking bigger breaths and his heart beats so powerfully it rocks his body a bit, but he still runs outside like a puppy. I just hope I have the strength for what's to come.
Posted by Theresa
Mpls., Mn
10/14/2014
546 Posts
Hey Caireboo!

I have very limited experience with this condition, but my experience is when dogs are this deep into the condition, that the big pharma meds do an excellent job at providing relief as quickly as possible. Given you do not know the time frame - how many days/weeks or months left for Boo, if this were my dog I would use the vet prescribed meds to ensure he is as comfortable as possible at this time. It would be a shame if you tried the all natural approach, only to have him drown in his own fluids within a week; if this were my dog I would want him as comfy as possible, with the drugs helping to clear those lungs and give me more time to plan an thoughtful and caring exit strategy.

One thing to help you both is Rescue Remedy - take this for him to help calm him, and for you to bring you strength for what is to come.

Please keep us posted on Boo!







 



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