Canine Heart Murmur
"Murmurs are extra heart sounds that are produced as a result of turbulent blood flow that is sufficient to produce audible noise. Most murmurs can only be heard with the assistance of a stethoscope ("on auscultation")."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_murmur
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MULTIPLE SUPPLEMENTS
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[YEA] 10/05/2011: Katie from Northport, New York: "My 8 year old Cavalier King Charles Spaniel was diagnosed with a Grade 2 heart murmur in January of this year. After researching Mitral Valve Disease (which runs in this breed) and Congestive Heart Failure, I immediately started him on Ubiquinol, liquid magnesium, liquid carnitine, ribose and vitamin C. In addition I also give him colostrum.
I just took him back to the cardiologist to be reexamined and was told that his heart murmur is gone and that everything is within normal range. Thank God. I will keep him on these supplements for life!
Unfortunately, my first Cavalier died of congestive heart failure (which started as a Grade 2 murmur and then progressed to CHF in about 2-1/2 years). I had no experience with heart disease at the time and didn't know how to treat him. I wish I knew then what I know now. If I did, I believe my dog would still be here with me.
FYI, these are the dosages I am giving to my 25 lb. Dog:
Ubiquinol - 50 mg. TWICE daily
Liquid Magnesium - 1/2 tsp in the a.m.
Liquid Carnitine (1000 mg) - 1/2 tsp TWICE daily
Ribose - 850 mg. TWICE daily
Vitamin C - 250 mg TWICE daily
Colostrum - 1/4 tsp TWICE daily"
Replies02/07/2012: Donna from Covington, La replies: "My 5 year old Cavalier was just diagnosed with a grade 2 heart murmur. He has an appointment with a cardiologist later this week. Thanks Katie for the information on all the supplements that you are giving your cavalier. That is wonderful news that the heart looks normal now! That gives me hope! What are the brands of each supplement that you are using? How to you give your dog the pills? Thanks for any and all help. Donna"
02/23/2012: Katie from Northport, NY replies: "Hi Donna, I was giving my dog the following supplements up until a month ago I purchased all of these supplements at swansonvitamins.com with the exception of the magnesium. Note: I learned about the use of these supplements from the integrative cardiologist, Dr. Stephen Sinatra. Dr. Sinatra has written a couple of books and refers to the following four supplements (ubiquinol, magnesium, carnitine and ribose) as "The Awesome Foursome". He uses them in his own practice.1) Ubiquinol (ubiquinol is a highly absorbable form of Co-Q10). I chose the 50 mg. "Quino-Gel" Ubiquinol from Swanson because it is water soluble, instead of oil soluble, which means you don't need to take it with a fat to be absorbed.
2) Liquid Magnesium. I purchased "Angstrom Magnesium" from angstrom-mineral.com. I chose this form of magnesium because it was recommended by Dr. Carolyn Dean (she's written a few books on the benefits of magnesium). She said this form is highly absorbable, and doesn't have the laxative effects that some magnesium can have.
3) Liquid Carnitine. I was giving my dog the NOW Foods "Liquid L-Carnitine" (1, 000 mg. ) which I also purchased from Swanson
4) D-Ribose. I purchased the 850 mg. capsules and gave my dog 1 capsule TWICE daily.
5) Whole Food Vitamin C. I bought the "MegaFood Complex C" because it's made from whole food such as oranges, amlas, peppers, rosehips and is supposed to be much more bioavailable than regular ascorbic acid.
6) Colostrum. Note: Although I originally gave this to my dog, -- I stopped it. I didn't think my dog was getting any benefit from it. So, I don't think I would continue to recommend it.
TREATMENT UPDATE
About a month ago, I took my dog off of the "isolated" supplements listed in my post above. I wondered if they could create an imbalance in him over the long term and, besides, I now wanted to treat the underlying cause of his heart murmur/mitral valve issue. So, in my continuing research I learned that almost all cases of heart disease, has, as its underlying cause, a serious state of nutritional deficiency. I also learned that the heart will recover faster and more completely than any other organ in the body, if it is properly nourished.
So, I have since placed my dog on whole food, phytonutrient complexes that are specifically geared for the heart. I found out about these supplements during my research on heart disease. I found out about a doctor on the West coast (Dr. Bruce West) who has treated over 25,000 heart patients over the past 30 years and he uses (almost exclusively) these same RAW, WHOLE FOOD PHYTONUTRIENT SUPPLEMENTS made by a company in the mid-West called Standard Process with excellent results. Dr. West said that congestive heart failure is, like most other forms of heart disease, caused by nutritional deficiencies, specifically the B vitamins. HOWEVER, you cannot go out and buy a B complex vitamin from the store to heal your heart it won't work there's much more to it than that.
Right now I have put my dog on a modified version of a protocol he uses for humans and I am using the same phytonutrient complexes that he uses. My plans are to keep my dog on this protocol for the next 4 months or so and then bring him back to the cardiologist for a another recheck.
At that point, I will report back here with details and an update on his heart."
04/11/2012: Michelle from Southampton, Ny replies: "Hi Kate, Im interested in the supplements you used for your ogs heart murmur. My cavalier was just diagnosed with a murmur and I would like to avoid meds if possible. I'm also interested in diet deficiencies. Please inbox me and let e know if there is a chance we could speak or email privately.I just made a cardio, ogy appt with dr fox at the animal medical center in ny. Thanks"
04/12/2012: Katie from Northport, Ny, Us replies: "Hi Michelle, How do I "inbox" you so that we can speak or e-mail privately off this thread?"
05/03/2012: Gwen from Denver, Colorado replies: "please share ur info with the rest of us....please:^)"
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[YEA] 01/23/2012: Deborah from Chino Valley, Az: "My 12 lb. Pekingnese recently went through some very frightening and life-threatening health issues related to his heart. He is doing terrific now, however I want to share a bit about what symptoms were manifesting and how we've managed to stop them.
In September of 2011, our sweet dog Mocha began having something akin to night screams/seizures. In the middle of the night, normally between 1 - 3am, he would wake from sleep with a horrific scream, then go immediately into a seizure. In all of our years with him he had never shown anything like this. His seizure would then last 7 -8 minutes. It was a terrible scene to witness and watch him endure. It happened again a month later, and as we began the process of veterinary visits, tests, etc. and were coming up with no answers. The veterinarian said these were not epileptic seizures, but he did not know what they were or where they were coming from. From his model of medicine he only had Phenobarbital to offer as a means to get control of the seizures. Although we took the advice at the time, my family and I all felt this was still an undiagnosed condition and the Pheno would at best offer us some time to get things figured out. We had to bring these episodes to a halt as soon as possible as each episode seemed to erode his overall health. We were watching our beloved pup drift away from us with each episode.
As we began our research, I started online with researching 'dog screams'. Although the veterinarian said perhaps this was a dream, or anxiety, he didn't feel the dog was in pain at the time of his episodes. We wholeheartedly disagreed. Although Mocha may not have felt pain during the actual seizure, the scream occurred just before and was absolutely horrifying. It was CLEAR that he was in wrenching pain before falling into a seizure. I was amazed to find online assorted threads of pet owner conversations on the topic of dog screams... Most of which indeed were followed by seizure activity, involuntary defecation, etc. In almost each case, the dogs in question were small dog breeds, just like Mocha. Also in each case, the owner knew the dog had a diagnosed heart murmur, as we did with Mocha.
Following this thread, I started to research heart remedies for dogs. Some were specific to murmurs, others were more generalized and in each small dog case, there was also an issue with keeping blood sugar balanced. We began putting together a small grouping of supplements to put Mocha on based on the information we were finding online.
At the same time that we were doing this research, we were giving Mocha the Phenobarbital. He had a terrible time adapting to it. Aside from being basically unconscious 90 minutes after the dose for approximately 9 hours, he was starting to urinate excessively and also to pant exactly 90 minutes after each dose. Sometimes the panting was excessive and frightening. We brought all of these topics up to the veterinarian who said that small dogs tend to adapt the least to this medication, and that whatever adaptation was going to happen would happen within the first two weeks. We were a month into it at this point and becoming very concerned. In addition, it was not stopping entirely his concerning episodes. We had his blood tested to see if he was at 'therapeutic levels' of the Phenobarbital and he was not. The veterinarian wanted us to go up in dose, but our instincts told us 'no'. This dog was losing quality of life on the dose he was already on, and we felt certain that increasing his dose would decrease his life expectancy and quality of remaining life. We decided at that point to trust our instincts and begin tending specifically to his heart.
I am happy to report that since we began adding in his natural heart and blood sugar supports, there have been no screaming/seizure episodes (6 weeks now). This is SIGNIFICANT, as Mocha had gotten to the point where he was screaming/seizing several times per day before beginning his holistic treatment. We have also decreased his Phenobarbital very slowly and safely and this, also, has improved his overall health and vitality. At this point we know we are substantially below 'therapeutic levels' and that the medication is doing next to nothing for him. We are taking him off slowly simply to be safe and gentle with is system. He should be off it entirely over the next week.
I am sharing this information because I know there are others out there who may have dogs with heart murmurs, small dogs, screaming/seizure dogs and the like. I was amazed at how frequent this problem presents based on what I found online, and yet could find NONE of this information via veterinarians or veterinary sites. It all came from pet owners who have had to research and address the issues themselves based on what others were doing. Thank goodness for sites like this one... I truly have no idea what Mocha's future would have been without them.
As for what supplements we have found which address his issues:
Hearty Heart (liquid drops) from Pet Wellbeing: Dosage is determined by pet's weight. This product has been developed by holistic veterinarians and veterinary herbalists. It is absolutely fantastic and useful for dogs and cats. Our 14 year-old cat has Cardiomyopathy and this has helped him so very much as well. Can't recommend it highly enough.
L-Carnitine (liquid) from Pet's Choice Pharmaceuticals: An essential amino acid designed to assist both the heart and blood sugar levels. Very helpful in healing the heart after functional disturbances and preventing future problems. Especially recommended for small breeds. Dosage determined by pet's weight.
FortiFlora (powder) from Purina Veterinary Diets: Probiotic supplement with beneficial strains of good bacteria designed to balance the digestive system and strengthen immunity. Excellent for blood sugar issues, allergies, skin and coat issues, etc. Mocha has been on this for years, as he has a long history of highly reactive/allergic skin, itching, blood sugar issues, etc. As a 12 lb dog, we give Mocha half a packet twice per day with his meals.
Magnesium mixed with Vitamin C: Both of these nutrients are excellent for the heart and safe for dogs. We buy tablets and then powder them together in our mortar and pestle. This allows us to sprinkle them onto his food. Again because Mocha is small, he only get 2 pinches of this mixture once per day. The ratio of his Magnesium to Vitamin C is 2:1. The dose, ratio, form of the nutrient may be specific dog to dog but there is helpful information online about dosing them.
Ubiqinone (CoQ10): An important antioxidant which helps with energy and heart function. It is potent so again, read up on dosage for your pet or consult with a holistic veterinarian. For Mocha, he only takes 1 drop from a 30mg capsule. Any more than that is too much, but we notice a difference when he doesn't have it at all.
D-Ribose: This is a metabolic sugar which is found within the body, but can also be supplemented. It is excellent for the heart, for recovery of the heart and for energy production... Of of which Mocha needed. Because of his small size he only takes 200 - 300 mg day. This product can be found in most healthfood stores.
So there you are. I hope you find this information helpful if you are searching for help for your dog. Most important lessons we have learned from the experince are 1) trust your instincts and 2) do your homework. If something doesn't sound right to you in terms of diagnosis, treatment, etc. , or if you simply feel you have not gotten sufficient answers, trust your instincts. There is an abundance of information available on the web today and tho, yes, sometimes that can be misleading, when you read over and over from owners about what works/doesn't work, TRUST it. In our case we were not able to get any answers from the veterinary community (in person or online) and ALL of Mocha's help came from dog owners like you. And, do your homework... Research what is going on with your pet, what others are doing for the same issues, safe dosage amounts, etc. Take charge of what is going on, have confidence in yourself and your instincts and take one step at a time. Don't wait passively for answers and don't continue with anything that just feels wrong or is causing clear harm... Even if that information comes from the medical community. They, like us, are all still learning but sometimes the life of a patient (human or animal) can't wait and you must strike out on your own. Work closely with professionals when and how you can, but don't linger with anyone who isn't providing help or cooperating with your desire to work holistically. Put your pet and his/her life first.
Good luck to you and I hope some little puppy dog and his family out there can be helped just like we have been. We are tremendously grateful to have been steered by others to the help Mocha needed and are enjoying seeing our sweet pup return to us in every way.
Blessings,
Deborah, Mocha and family...."
Replies01/24/2012: Timh from Louisville, Ky, Usa replies: "Deborah, thanks for this detailed and informative post; and congrats on Mocha's recovery. If I might add the importance of omega 3 fatty acids like Flax and Fish oils for health of every cell in prevention and recovery of illness."
01/27/2012: Deborah from Chino Valley, Az replies: "Thanks Tim, indeed. We did have Mocha on fish oil at different time periods... Sometimes he did well with it, other times not so much. We switched his diet to a more fish-rich diet (fresh cooked fish) and that seemed to do the trick. Flax oil makes him itch terribly so we avoid that in his case. But excellent advice to others who may be researching for their own pets."
02/03/2012: Ros from Tewantin, Qld, australia replies: "Hi Deb, My 15 yr old chihuahua is now on the journey of heart murmur. Thank you so much for your in depth sharing of what you did. It was so informative and I am inspired. Thanks!"
02/09/2012: Deborah from Chino Valley, Az replies: "My pleasure, Ros... Best wishes to you and your pup!"
02/23/2012: Kickdiver from Wilmington, Nc replies: "Thank you for the detailed info. I have a 12 year old Great Dane on various heart meds due to near Heart Failure and enlarged heart with atrial fib/dilated cardio myopathy. He's on Vetmed, Diltiazem, Benazepril and Digoxin, since our emergency visit at the Cardiology Clinic, where his heart beat was measured 250 bpm.... He is stabilized now, and I also give him Omega 3 fish oils, CQ10, and looking into carnitine and taurine, and I did come across the site for Hearty Heart, but it says NOT to give this natural remedy WHILE on heart meds.But... How can I stop the heart meds, when they just now kicked in after 2 days of horrible heart racing and my poor dog being miserable? Can I trust the reviews on line? They all seem great , but... One never knows if they are just bloggers paid by the company... Anyhow.. I'm willing to give it a try, yet, I cannot take him off the heart meds right now... I'd rather give him half a dose of the Hearty Heart along WITH the meds and then slowly go down with the dosage..
Worst of all, I am supposed to move to the Middle East with my 3 beloved K9s in April, how in the world am I going to get my boy there in this condition? I cannot leave this companion behind, he's my kiddo! I know his heart situation is a serious thing, but apart from that he has NO health issues, all blood work was good and all organs perfectly intact, as a matter of fact, the Vets at the clinic told me that he was the healthiest and oldest Dane they have seen!!! (thanks to Raw Diet and NO vaccines, I guess... ) I do have a professional pet handling company hired, still... My holistic vet said St John's Word could help him as well. I have a few more weeks to see how he develops, in the interim, any input helps.. I'd love to give Hearty Heart a try, but.. There is NO way I can stop the meds right now... What to do??"
02/23/2012: Deborah from Chino Valley, Az replies: "Hi Kickdiver, thank you for your post. How great that your Great Dane is so healthy at the age of 12! You've obviously done so much to get him there.I totally understand your concern about mixing the HH supplement with the heart meds. This is indeed a conundrum and I don't know the answer for you. This has to be an individual decision. I personally would not mix them as the HH is developed by holistic veterinarians and they so strongly advise against it.
I know in our situation, we had to make the difficult choice between medications vs. Supplements. It's so much easier when one can blend both and not make such a difficult and scary decision, but sometimes this is just not safe. So what we did was begin with supplements that did not have contraindications with the medication we used at the time. The HH came in toward the end of that supplement list, as we did everything else first to stabilize him supplement-wise. As Mocha grew more and more stable on the supplements, we gradually began moving him down on his medication dose AND began putting the HH in separate feedings from his medication. So breakfast/dinner had medication, lunch snack and evening snack (9pm) had HH. This worked for him but we were ever so careful. The medication he was on could not safely be stopped abruptly, so we had to wean him down on it while slowly adding in the supplements where we could. This took time, patience, faith and much care to get right but like for you, he is our 'kiddo' and we just wanted him better. However he was not on heart meds, he was on Phenobarbital and that is a big difference between your picture and mine. Had Mocha been on heart meds, I'm not sure if we would have gone forward with the HH in this way. Like you, we would have had to sit with the different choices in front of us and find the safest, best long-term plan for our pup.
So for now, since your pup is newly on all of these meds and just coming out of an acute situation you may want to continue as you are doing. Simply add safe supplements with no contraindications. If I were you, I would add the L-Carn as that has profoundly good impact on heart function and in general is very safe. Not sure the Taurine is a fit or a priority in your pup's case.
As for the HH, I recommended it because I use it for my pup and it works brilliantly. It is also safe for cats, and we gave it to our 14-year old cat who was having wobbly, at times screeching, seizures and who had previously been diagnosed with Cardiomyopathy. Since starting him on the HH, no wobbling, no screaming, no seizures. I don't work for the company, am not a paid blogger, etc. I'm a user and this product is the real deal in my experience. Is it the best fit for your sweet Dane? I don't know. But it was the fit for our Pekingese and tabby.
Seems the safest short-term approach would be to find the combination of supplements (and possibly meds) that work for your Dane and then move in whatever direction you can from there for a long-term plan. Most important is to a) stabilize acute symptoms and then b) find long-term solutions which often need to be at least partially natural so as to 'do no harm'. If some meds need to be part of that picture for your Dane going forward, so be it. Most important is to keep him healthy, happy and strong for the longest amount of time you can. We HAD to move our pup off of meds because they were doing more harm then good, far more so. With that, we still had to do it gradually to keep him safe. If the meds had been significantly helping with no serious side effects, I may have considered keeping him on them along with supplements but that was not what was happening.
So, you have a bit of a process in front of you but I know you will find the right solutions for him. Just please don't mix HH with meds if you have been outright cautioned against doing so by the product maker. Better to be safe than sorry when it comes to our sweet animal friends' lives, I know you agree."
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