My bladder weakness and slight prolapse is improved with rebounding on a mini trampoline. I do kegel pelvic floor exercises, albeit inconsistently, however rebounding 7 mins twice daily (I started at 2 mins and build by 1 daily) has given me the best result. After 1 week I have already noticed that leakage on jumping is almost nonexistent.
Rebounding on the mini-trampoline is the best exercise for Cancer patients. This exercise is gentle and every bounce is pulling toxins from your cells and strengthening your immune system!
Rebounding on a mini trapoline and dry skin brushing with a natural bristle body brush before showering has significantly reduced my cellulite. By dry brushing and rebounding, the toxins that are build up are broken down and the lympathic system is cleaned out hence the elimination of cellulite. Must do for at least two weeks to see results. Good Luck!
For the record, anyone reading this who wishes they could use one of those rebounder trampolines, yet can't because they have trouble with their feet hurting too badly from it or toes/calves cramping up:
I use a large inflatable exercise ball (75cm in diameter, comes *with* the pump to pump it up, about $15. -$17. USD from the fitness department at Walmart. They come in all different sizes, so even extra-short or extra-tall folks will be able to find the size that works for them.
Ebay (and maybe Walmart too) also has ruggedized burst-proof balls that can take 600 lbs of bounce-weight, so weight doesn't have to be an issue for this. Some balls are sand-weighted, so they won't go rolling merrily away from you when the time comes to corral them in a corner of the room.
I can sit on it and bounce, it doesn't cramp my calves or hurt my toes and feet, it's great. It's even more fun than jumping on a bed used to be :-). Also- One good strong bounce and it helps you stand up too, when you are ready to get off the ball and stop bouncing :-). You can put on some good music and "dance" :-) your upper body as well.
I have read that lots of folks use those vibrating platforms too, and apparently they work well, from what I have read. There's always a way to do what you have to do. Rocking chairs, while not a direct substitute, are not half bad either for helping your lymph system to keep moving. Or a vibrating recliner, if you have access to one.
All are ways to substitute for forced inactivity, or an inability to work out or walk. These are not exact and direct substitutes, but all good ideas- for somebody out there :-).
Just ordered my Yoga ball - will be here Saturday!! My feet are better but my ankles are super weak so I can't rebound on a regular rebounder but I can certainly bounce on a yoga ball and, hopefully, get everybody (body PART, that is) back in the game!! Yeah!!
Ted, Please help! Does rebounding (trampoline) excercise really get rid of Toxins in your body? See Claim below.
One of rebounding's special benefits is its ability to improve flow in the lymphatic system. The lymphatic system is the metabolic garbage can of the body. It rids the body of toxins, fatigue substances, dead cells, cancer cells, nitrogenous wastes, trapped protein, fatty globules, pathogenic bacteria, infectious viruses, foreign substances, heavy metals, and other assorted junk the cells cast off.
(Seattle, Wa USA)
YES -! The lymph glands have one way valves. They do not empty of their own accord unless you are MOVING. Jumping on a mini trampoline (aka rebounder) is the most effective way to get the toxins out! I bought a cheap rebounder ($30-$35 dollars delivered from Wally Mart online) and I used it for about a month or so until I knew it was something I wanted to do - and then I bought an expensive "springless" model with the bungee cords instead of those noisy springs. The expensive "soft jump" model was worth every penny! I couldn't believe I actually liked the cheap one after I bounced on my new one. Hey, what you don't know.... ;-) If your knees and joints are an issue, you NEED the more expensive model, just be sure it is something you will do, and not just sit there collecting dust and making you feel guilty. Ha ha. Oh, and start off S-L-O-W. I started off at 3 mins... And was exhausted! Thought there was no way I would ever be able to jump long enough for it to have a health benefit. Well, adding a minute here and there I am now up to 20 mins at a time. I am working my way up to 30 mins a day, and will be very happy with that. It is AWESOME exercise, and SO much easier on the body than running. No pounding on a hard surface = NO pain! No, I do not work for any rebounding companies. ;)
(Michelbach-le-bas, Alsace, France)
Hi Carly, you sure don't work for a rebound company because I don't work either and my story is the same as you. What a difference do the more expensive trampolines make.... Like you I can't imagine I ever used the other one! Great fun though..... I have a couple of CD's but nowadays I just exercise to some nice music. Like you first I was awfully tired but now I am ok, I have been doing it on and off for maybe three years.
(Seattle, Wa Usa)
Hi Francisca - we have a lot in common I think! Lol. I have yet to put on the cd that came with my "new" rebounder. I usually just watch a favorite tv show while I jump. I have been doing it less than a year, but hope that I will keep it up like you have! I do love it! :-) No longer get winded at all like in the beginning!
Instead of rebounding Carly would those machines that you stand on and they vibrate have the same effect? Vibrate the toxins out? Would be less exhausting for you.
(Seattle, Wa - Usa)
Hi Debbie - My mom had one of those vibrating machines when I was a kid back in the 1960's. (if we are talking about the same thing). I would personally rather use the rebounder. The workout is exhilirating, and leaves me feeling energized now... It is actually a FUN workout. The machine my mom had never seemed to do a thing for her, except for leaving red welts where the strap went across her. It smelled like burning gear / motor oil too. I remember it well. lol.
I am suprised not to find rebounding (or trampolining as we call it here in Europe), mentioned more often on this site. I discovered it a while ago when I was trying to diminish my myopia. Rebounding works for a lot of ailments and is a great way to exercise too. First I bought a cheap one in a sports shop and after that a more expensive one from my optometrist. I really prefer the second one and never use the first one anymore although the second one is many times more expensive. I would say that if you didn't try the better ones you will be perfectly happy with the cheaper version. I bought a great exercise DVD (a pity one can't name products here) and I really have great fun. Many times I just play some CD I like and do the moves I want. If the weather is good I do it outside on the terrace. I would really recommend this kind of exercise to anybody, young and old and if you have children this is also a great way to have fun and stay healthy and fit at the same time! The benefits of rebounding are huge, you can look them up on the Internet. I couldn't believe it that I had never heard of it other than as a play tool for children.
Hi Gean, It may have the same effect. However, the mini tramp does give you a lot more bounce and feels quite different than just jumping up and down, so I feel like you would be missing something if you just jumped with out the trampoline. Plus, like you said, it would be hard on the knees. I got my mini tramp for around $25 so it was worth it to me.
I love rebounding. I have gotten rid of excruciating intermittent pain in my feet by doing rebounding. I like it so much that I even rebound in the dark, lonely basement with no television. Even if I go out running I still like to do my rebounding, in the dark, lonely basement.
(Calgary, Alberta, Canada)
Thanks, Roger!? Rebounding really is very effective, fun and easy to do. Those with health challenges can do gentle "health bounces" - your feet don't even leave the mat. There are quite a few good videos on YouTube - some have entire workouts. And look at how happy Tigger (Winne the Pooh) is from bouncing a lot! Cheers, Bess
I was diagnosed with a hiatal hernia and from time to time it acted up and caused a real problem swallowing. I found some advice online that mentioned jumping up and down hard to move the diaphragm back into place. That worked a little sometimes.
What HAS worked for me is to use a rebounder, a mini-trampoline, several times a week for 8 or 9 minutes while I listen to a short podcast. I also have been taking some prebiotic supplements to aid and heal the digestive tract. Using the rebounder often sends me to the bathroom afterwards. I have not had an incident with the hernia since I started using the rebounder.
Hi Ted, What is your experience with Rebounding on Trampoline? Is that suppose to be good for lymph system? Flushing the lymph while stimulating the immune system and defending against cancer and other ailments.
(Thousand Oaks, Ca, Usa)
Hi Susan, I'm not Ted but I have had a rebounder for years. They are very instrumental in keeping the lymph system healthy. Even if you aren't super fit, you can do what they call the health bounce and that will be just as beneficial. I know for the rebounder that I ordered, you can even get an attachment which is a handle for those who are older or unsteady so you can gently bounce for the benefits. Hope this information helps. Lisa
(Somewhere, Alone, Listening To Radiohead)
As an addition to Lisa's comment - jogging or skipping (or just jumping up and down on the spot) can also give you the similar benefits without the need for extra equipment.
If you are not in physical condition to do either of those, gently bouncing whilst sitting on a properly inflated exercise ball will help, and it will provide a good exercise to help get your muscles into better condition too.
Better But With Side Effects
I recently started using the trampoline everyday for about 5 minutes and love it. But, after several days I noticed that for about 3-4 days I had a sore throat and in the morning some congestion. It's gone away now. But, I got the feeling that maybe it was my lymph glands clearing out from the exercise. Has anybody else had this happen or know anything about it?
I got a rebounder at Good Will for $5 a few years ago. I put it in the closet and forgot about it, but then brought it out recently and started using it because I felt congestion in my armpit lymphs and breast tenderness. I spend about 10 minutes a day on the rebounder bouncing and waving my arms up and down. (see youtube videos for how to do this). Definitely helping my issues. Also drinking more water throughout the day to flush the lymphs.
My osteopenia numbers are a bit better (small bit) than from 2 years ago, even though I'm lifting weights and eating right. Has anyone had experience with rebounding? That's the small trampoline and I hear it's very good for building bone, draining lymph, cardio and balance. I'm just curious if anyone knows for a fact (even anecdotally) that it helps and, if you don't know for sure, your opinion is also valued.
Well GertJr, good job!
Perhaps you only had a small improvement, but you are moving in the right direction and have had fruit from your labors. If you hadn't been lifting weights and eating well your number would have likely gone in the wrong direction. So mathematically, your success is more significant.
And I am guessing your body has had other benefits from these changes that may not be obvious.
I had not heard of rebounding for bone health. I'll be interested on the feedback for that as well.
~Mama to Many~
A friend told me about rebounding for bone loss. You only need to bounce with your feet remaining on the fabric, so no need to bounce high if you don't want. Her husband had osteoporosis, and was told only seven minutes/day will do it. He has gone from osteoporosis to osteopenia in about a year. You can bounce while you watch a TV show for less than ten minutes/day. I suggest getting a mini-trampoline that comes with a bar that you can attach for balance. It doesn't take up much room. I haven't had my bone density measured in a quite a few years, but had osteoporosis and hope I may be slightly better. I am not consistent in using it, but think every little bit may be beneficial. Take care, and thank you for all the great information you always share.
GertJr, ever since Cindy on EC wrote about rebounding, I am doing heel drops almost daily - instead of rebounding. I have yet to see if it makes a difference on the Dexa scan but that will be in a long while so I'm continuing on faith. I also do a bit of weights. And last Dexa was the same, but the doctor said that without the weights the numbers would surely have gotten worse, so it was a gain to stay at the same number!
Hi, I rebound for WBC/RBC counts and lymph drainage.
I believe it is beneficial for overall health.
Are you taking Vitamin D3 with K2 (human form of MK4)?
Vitamin D3 +K2 helps calcium get in the bone.
I had osteospenia (the beginnings) show up on a bone density test and the next year (or 2) when I had a bone density test, it was gone. I had been lifting weights regularly during the year I had the 2nd test and it proved to me that you can affect your bone density with weights. I was so happy! (sorry I don't have anything to add about rebounding other than it just does make me happy to get on it! )
Hi Gertjr, I was rereading the book "Adaptogens in Medical Herbalism" by Donnie Yance, Mederi Center. In the book he says the essentials nutrients to consider for the precursor of/or osteoporosis are: vitamin D3+K2, calcium, magnesium, boron, vitamin B12, folate, vitamin C, ipriflavone, stronium, silica (horsetail extract). Food concentrates: Undenatured whey protein, colostrum, EPA/DHA, GLA, fermented soy concentrates, seaweed. Botanicals: mumie, epimedium. together with endocrine restorative herbs like chaste tree (vitex agnus-castus), shatavari (asparagus racemosus), eucommia bark. Phenolic rich companions: green tea extract (more than 95% phenols, 40% EGCG), grape seed or billberry, red clover extract (more than 30%isoflavones). Nutrient rich: comfry (symphytum), horsetail (equisetum arvense). He doesn't give dosage unfortunately. Just passing along what I read.
I no longer live in the country, but when I had a lot of land, we had a super big trampoline outside, and those kids had the best years of their lives on that thing. But it is really hard to go back to a little bouncey after a really big one! I miss that ol' tramp. I used to lope the outside in slow circles, and loved it. --T.
When I was 62 or 63, I used to get these intense pangs of pain that would last for about 10 seconds and then fade and then come back in 2 or 3 minutes. I would try to watch television, and it was INTENSE. Rebounding took it away. Rebounding does something wonderful. And when I am too tired to go to the gym, and I can at least rebound. I am 65 years old.
WARNING- I tried rebounding and it made me get a prolapse or at least made a slight one much worse. I googled this and several women and sites said rebounding can cause it.
I am going to be checked by a specialist and may need surgery. It is much more pronounced when I am tired. I have Sjogren's which makes me constipated. I used to be able to strenghthen my bladder with Kegels, but it is just getting worse as I get closer to 60.
For prolapse - if you're hesitant or otherwise "worried" about it, it would get better if you just did the health bounce but if it frightens you, there is a SUPER SIMPLE SOLUTION and you don't even need a rebounder for it. The solution is simply to bounce on the edge of your bed. Sitting down. On the edge of your bed. Super simple. Do it in the morning, do it during the day, do it when you get home from work, do it before you go to bed. You don't even have to do it for "minutes". You can count bounces instead. Even just 25 - around 15 seconds - if you're REALLY scared - just light gentle bouncing, several times throughout the day. The physiology is there and ANY bouncing you do is going to strengthen those muscles. You couldn't prevent that "workout" even if you wanted to. Except by not bouncing at all.
I bounced on the edge of the bed while I was waiting for my yoga ball, which took 3 days to get here, and just in those three days of what couldn't have amounted to even 10 minutes of bouncing, overall, I gained the strength to extract my old rebounder from where it was stored, lifting it up over my head to get it out, and bounce on it, standing up.
I've had residual weakness since Covid, back in the spring, and I've only been rebounding for 2 weeks and all of that weakness is gone. Plus, I have more strength than when I was sick. I'm steadier on my feet, more flexible and in those two weeks, the time spent rebounding, all together over the whole two weeks, is probably less than a half hour. Simply because I suck at any sort of "routine". Now, I've put my rebounder in the circuit of my in house "obstacle course" so it's sitting in the most used doorway and I bounce for a few seconds, every time I go through that doorway to the hall which is on the way to the bedroom AND the bathroom. So, I'm doing little bounces all day but nowhere near 10 minutes altogether. Granted, I feel so much better than I'm actually leaving the keyboard and going to bounce, intentionally, more and more but it's sort of like bouncing on the bed when you were a kid. I'm pretty much doing it because there's nobody to stop me! ROFL!
This made me ROFL, too! Thanks! I needed a good laugh! ;-)
"....but it's sort of like bouncing on the bed when you were a kid. I'm pretty much doing it because there's nobody to stop me! ROFL! "
I still bounce on the bed. There's something about that...it just sort of feels extra good somehow :)
Some compression leggings might help, otherwise, you can rebound on a yoga ball or just on the edge of your bed, while those muscles are being worked and rejuvenated and maybe start with regular baby/health bouncing on a rebounder later on?
Just found out I have vaginal prolapse. Wouldnt this make the organs fall more with the jumping like that?
I agree. I've only recently begun but I got myself some "compression" leggings and longs sleeve shirts as I'm 60+. I had a huge ovarian tumor removed about 15 years ago which had emaciated me - and I mean I was all bone and skin, except for the tumor - so after surgery, I had a lot of extra skin and the surgeon gave me a long "band" to wear around my middle to simulate skin and support so my organs could sort themselves out and gt back to where they're supposed to be. Which made sense and I think it also makes sense to wear compression clothing in the beginning to support the internal connective tissue as it is building itself back up and keep organs where they're supposed to be.
Rebounding is awesome but it IS all about gravity and, as any buxom woman can tell you, there's are issues with that and I don't think those issues are confined to the skin and connective tissue but, also, to the internal organs so, I would say two things - bounce sitting on the edge of your bed every chance you get and wear compression clothing to imitate the tight skin of youth that provides both support for one's innards and a massaging effect on the lymphatic system, even when you're not bouncing. I'd wear them, at least, until the muscles, connective tissues and skin get some tone back.
Personally, I think any prolapse issues in the pelvic area are created by a lack of the motion that used to be life itself. The body isn't just a chemical factory, it's also a kinetic, piezoelectric machine. Life moves against gravity and that movement supports life. Land-based animals run on atmospheric gravity, aquatic life runs on the pressure of the water and plants run on lateral earth pressure on their roots. People think plants don't move but they absolutely do. They're just more active underground than they are above ground and are pumping water and nutrients with that motion, 24/7. And trees pump them over some significant distance, also against gravity. Every environment is supported by gravity and the life it contains, activates it, internally, when it moves. Whether it's shooting roots through soil, swimming in water or crawling around on the surface.
Gravity is our friend and constant companion - AND our life support system. We are literally designed for it. Designed to play with it. Designed to move, explore, discover the wonders with it. Designed to run, swing, jump and climb with and sleep *under* it. We are not designed to not do those things.
Gravity is life - at least, on earth. The heart pumps blood for some lifeforms but the whole of the existence of the motion that IS life on earth is pumped by gravity.
That was an eye opening and beautiful response. I've never looked at the whole gravitational ecosystem like that before. Thank you for reflecting those organic intricacies......really. Beautiful.
I have had sore throat problems and tonsil stones for most of my life. Otherwise, I feel pretty healthy. I read that using a rebounder (mini trampoline) stimulated your thyroid and helped with this problem. I decided to give it a try and it worked. I have had no tonsil stones and very few sore throats for about two years. I stopped using the mini trampoline for about a month due to an unrelated injury and the tonsil stones came back. I will be back on the mini tramp as soon as possible. I jump about 10 minutes 3 or 4 times a week. I am also a runner so this is not my only form of exercise. I'm not sure of exactly why this works, but it works for me. Thank you. By the way, this is a great site.
Triple White Blood Cells
In looking for something for a friend that might prevent Covid without having to take anything, I came upon a reference to a rebounding preventative and treatment for cancer which seemed strange, at first, but having given it some thought, it makes perfect sense.
The protocol is simply 2 minutes of "baby" or "health" bouncing, every hour. It only triples one's white blood cell levels - as opposed to increasing them by 15 - 20 times, as with 10 minutes of rebounding with increasing intensity - but one is back to normal after an hour whether one rebounds for 10 minutes or 2 so tripling them every hour on the hour would be far more effective than cranking them up by 15 times their normal level.once per day for an hour.
The reason it makes so much sense is because, back in the wild, one would have been in motion for more than for 2 minutes per hour and 10 minutes at a time would be stretching it - and quite a bit, depending on one's environment.
I've been following this protocol today and am even having a slight detox reaction in the form of a slight rash and itchiness on the neck and on the back, over the kidneys, which I haven't experienced in quite some time despite having tested the symptomatic effects of several natural antibacterial, anti-fungal and antiviral substances so, apparently, the body's own little bacteria/virus/fungus killers can go where MMS, CDS, vitamin C, colloidal silver and even DMSO can't.
The fact is, we have built in "antibiotics". All we have to do is "activate" them and bouncing is, so far, the most efficient and effective way they've found that does it. No "remedy" will do that. Personally, I suspect swinging might be even more effective - not to mention, more fun, even than bouncing - but I haven't the equipment to test that and no one else is looking at it but, so what? Rebounding DOES do it. And even merely bouncing on the edge of the bed or on a yoga ball should do it.
Personally, I would recommend a cellerciser which, though expensive, is safer even than high-end older rebounders and still less than a trip to the hospital would cost but if I couldn't have gotten one, I'd be bouncing on a yoga ball.
I didn't start rebounding until AFTER I had covid so my actual experience with it is small. Other than getting back all of my strength, and then some, after steadily losing it for 10 months and being more solid on my feet than I've been since I was quite a bit younger than I am now, I can only speak of what I've been told by others of their own experiences but it's easy enough to test for oneself by bouncing on the edge of the bed or on a $20 yoga ball.
Two minutes every hour. I don't know why I didn't think of that myself...I wasn't aware of how much of an increase one would get with less than 10 minutes but I did know that levels go back to normal after about an hour and should have thought of this so thank God SOMEbody's paying attention, LOL!
Day 2 of rebounding 2 minutes every hour is a bit different with sleepiness, some headaches of extremely short duration - like a minute or less - a need to tone down what I was doing, less "automatic" smoking and an even greater increase in flexibility which was something rebounding once per day had already improved, significantly.
I was trying to cram some intensity into the 2 minutes but when I reread the reference, they were talking about simply "health" or "baby" bouncing, only so trying to cram a whole session into 2 minutes, with the increasing intensity, might have triggered an adrenaline response...I don't know...when I went to bed last night, I had that sort of tense, achiness all over that you get after an adrenaline flood - as one might experience in a "near miss" while driving.
Anyway, I've toned it down, considerably. Some health bouncing with some rocking from one foot to another with some resistance in the arms, chest, upper back and shoulders.
The sleepiness may be remnants of anesthesia from a surgery several years ago since which I don't think I've actually done a deep, serious detox...maybe...I've experienced detox symptoms with a variety of remedies I've tested but not to this extent.
I do wish I'd tested my eyes before I started as my vision seems sharper - I think. Or perhaps I'm just more conscious of what I'm looking at? I don't know...it's just different - for the better.
Very interesting and time for another round. And possibly a nap, if the sleepiness doesn't abate.
It occurs to me that the muscle tension may be from the release of caffeine - which I've also been consuming less "automatically" today...
The sleepiness may be the body wanting me out of its way...which also hadn't occurred to me...and would make sense...I can be pretty annoying...ROFL!
Cindy, I'm following your rebounding saga with interest. For someone without a rebounder (yet?) would you think that a few jumps (nothing violent! ) every couple of hours or so might do the same things? I actually tried it out cautiously for two or three days and my knees surprisingly feel better, not worse as I had feared.
Not sure if you mean to increase the white blood cells or as a substitute for bouncing.
I've been thinking about what I'd do if I didn't have the cellerciser and I believe if I could strengthen my knees and ankles to a point I could do it, I'd sprint. As in run, flat out. All in. Not jog, with the up and down ground strikes, but that flat out run that feels like you're flying - to redirect some of that energy in the landing shock into the momentum. To spike the white blood cell levels, I don't think it would take much. Taking off, holding maximum speed for a few seconds and a quick walk back. And I'd do it barefoot, on some ground, not on the road or concrete. But I'm only about 30 yards from a golf course so...I could walk out my front door, do it and be back to work in that 2 minutes.
The point of doing it every hour is that it takes about an hour for the spike in the white blood cell count to settle back to normal levels.
After my third round today, I decided to try a nap for the drowsiness, laid down and slept for almost 6 hours which is a full night's sleep for me. I don't know what's going on with it but it's extremely interesting.
Day 3 was pretty much a wash. I decided to heed the drowsiness and take a nap after the third round and slept for 6 hours.
It's now the end of Day 4 and I had no drowsiness. I feel...I'm not sure. Different but I'm not sure how. I don't know...I just can't put my finger on anything specific but I've noticed, off and on throughout the day, when I'm standing, that it's more...natural or...effortless? Or something. I don't know. I guess I'll see what tomorrow brings!
The more I think about it, the more sense it makes - extremely interesting...
Day 5 and I think the difference I'm feeling is my legs. As if they're light and just go where I want them to go. I hadn't even realized it was an issue but I missed some rounds, today, due to running errands and just prior to the second round after returning, I felt some pretty intense heat - though not like a painful burning - on the upper part of my inner thigh and realized I'd had the same sensation on the inside of the same leg at the knee, this morning. I'm assuming it's lymph related but, of course, how would I know?
Also, just messing around, I discovered another way to bounce, sitting cross legged on the mat and "baby" bouncing using your arms, pushing off the rim. Whole new sensation. I discovered it by accident as I'm making a round cushion for my old rebounder to sit and bounce on while I write, just for fun and because I don't want to just throw the old rebounder away as the frame is super heavy-duty. The mat's a little distorted but for sitting on, it's fine. Plus, I finally found real mattress ticking!! The woven striped - as opposed to merely printed - heavy-duty featherproof real deal! So, I'm probably way too excited about using that but...you know how it is...LOL
I think bouncing in a seated position is different. Sitting cross-legged, particularly, puts a little stretching tension on the tops of the thighs, inner thighs and over the knees plus it feels pretty dang good!
Cindy, you are right. I haven't bounced on the yoga ball for a while, and yesterday, when I did, the whole area of back-of-neck and upper back felt like it was "draining the tension"!
Cool! Are you trying the "2 minutes every hour thing"? It would be interesting to hear reports of what others get of it.
Cindy, I'm just doing random gentle jumps, hops, light dance steps and gentle stomping when I need to go up/down steps. Nothing like the disciplined method you are doing. My goal is increasing bone density so that the doc won't push meds on me. When I saw you say that gentle bouncing might help too, that's when I added the yoga ball whenever it's convenient.