Apple Cider Vinegar
★★★☆☆
Hi to all the good people on this website. I really admire the help you give to others I was diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis about 15 yrs ago. I have been through all the medical make believe which cost a fortune until I got to pension age. The only thing that worked and gave me relief was the draining of the fluid from both my swollen knees I have decided to give them a miss after the last torture treatment I dont know if he did not know what he was doing or he put me through the torture for his own satisfaction so I am open to all suggestions on here. I have tried apple cider vinegar diluted. I am just finished my first 500ml bottle. I don't feel any difference yet. Should I continue or change to some other remedies? If there is anyone here that went through what I am going through, I would be delighted to hear your remedies.
Thanks, paddy.k.
PADDY K.,
I have used borax to keep my severe psoriatic arthritis in remission for way past a decade now. Not everyone can tolerate borax, but most people can. My PA was severe and the difference has been night and day for me.
Art
PADDY K., I forgot to mention that I did try ACV for the PA as well as ACV + BS and they did nothing for the PA. For me, borax was what completely removed all of the symptoms of PA except the ridges on the nail which became barely noticeable or sometimes gone completely, but they do come back mildly every once in awhile. Art
hi Art thanks for the reply could you tell me what sort of a mixture did you use? I'm completely in the dark about that I read somewhere people use it as a paste to rub on the skin. I'm not worried about the flakey bits of skin I have, it's more the swelling of my knees and the pain in both and the sudden darts of pain in my back every where else is ok thanks again paddy k.
PADDY K.,
I use the borax so my information may not be very helpful for you if you are going to use Boric Acid in place of Borax, but here it is.
I use 1/4 measuring teaspoon that is level full. Dissolve this in a one liter bottle of drinking water and drink throughout the day. This tends to act as a slow release of the borax, which in some people who are sensitive to borax can prevent stomach upset. I drink one of these bottles each weekday and take Saturday and Sunday off to allow any excess borax to be eliminated from my system.
For women, it is the same, but with half the dose or 1/8th level full measuring spoon. Note that measuring spoon sets can vary in size from country to country and even from manufacturer to manufacturer in the same country and that is why I gave you dosing in mg, to avoid that issue altogether.
As far as rubbing it on the skin to treat arthritis, I did not find that method as effective as drinking it and it gets old after doing it for a period of time.
You should also be aware that while it worked excellently to put my PA in remission, it did absolutely zero for my psoriasis. For the psoriasis, I found other effective remedies and I have written about some of those, but not all, on EC.
Generally benefits can start to appear in the first month of use and reach the peak benefit around 3 months, when no further benefit would be expected.
Some people do not tolerate borax and you should be aware of that going in.
Borax and boric acid are likely to weigh out differently because borax appears to to be a courser material than boric acid. In any case you are likely to use a smaller dose of boric acid than borax.
It will be more accurate to use a digital "milligram scale" to weigh your boric acid and find an appropriate sized spoon or similar utensil to easily measure it each time instead of having to break out your digital scale each time you make a drink.
It's been way over a decade since I started borax so my memory may not be 100% accurate, but it seems like I achieved full remission in about 2 1/2 months. Much pain relief before that bench mark though. My PA was severe and affected most major joints in my body and was super painful.
Well, I hope that answers your questions. If not, just post your questions and I will answer them or somebody else will.
Art
(Auckland, New Zealand.)
06/21/2023
Tom 70,
As I mentioned in one of my previous replies to this thread, measuring spoons vary by country and also within the country and that is why I named a milligram dose that has worked for me for well over a decade. My actual dose as measured with a calibrated digital milligram scale is approximately 960 mg+/-.
That is what my level full 1/4 teaspoon measuring spoon holds of borax. Is that too much? It is what Ted recommended years ago and has worked for me to keep my arthritis in remission for over a decade (about 15 years) with no apparent side effects.
Art
(Auckland, New Zealand.)
06/24/2023
Tom,
It wouldn't hurt to try the 1/8th teaspoon dose first, to see if it will work. I have no data for dose based on weight. The doses Ted recommended were pretty straight forward at 1/8th teaspoon and 1/4th teaspoon.
Art
(Delray Beach)
07/22/2023
Paddy, hi. Can you tell us what you eat every day/week/month. What are the foods in your diet. Specifically, I'd like to know if you eat any of the following:
sugar in any form
wheat in any form
dairy in any form
fruits (this is sugar)
Nothing, and I mean nothing.....that you put on your skin topically will 'cure' you as long as you're putting the wrong things INTO your body via your mouth. You absolutely must exclude all triggers. Bleach, borax, etc., in my most humble opinion, are all poison. I have researched them all extensively. My conclusion is that they only give a temporary type of relief without addressing the root cause/s of psoriasis. I have my protocol down to a science. I know what to eat if I want to bring it on, as well as what to avoid (there are always surprises here and there) eating so as not to bring on a flare-up.
Tell me what you eat (approx) daily/weekly/monthly, over and over.
Scott M.,
I disagree with your statement that borax is poison. Borax has kept my severe psoriatic arthritis in remission for 15 years. I have been pain free since starting borax 15 years ago and taking it every weekday with weekends off. This study shows that Borax is safe even at dosing way above what people have reported using on EC :
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10050929/
Here is a relevant quote from the study :
' Humans would need to consume daily some 3.3 g of boric acid (or 5.0 g borax) to ingest the same dose level as the lowest animal NOAEL. No effects on fertility were seen in a population of workers exposed to borates or to a population exposed to high environmental borate levels. There is remarkable similarity in the toxicological effects of boric acid and borax across different species. Other inorganic borates that simply dissociate to boric acid are expected to display similar toxicity, whereas those that do not dissociate simply to boric acid may display a different toxicological profile. '
This next study adds further confirmation to the safety of borax highlighted in the first study :
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26511087/
Art
(Earth Clinic)
07/23/2023
I am in total agreement with Art on the safety of borax.
I have taken 20 Mule Team Borax on and off for almost 20 years since Ted first mentioned it on this site and have had nothing but positive results from it. I had stopped for a long period a few years ago and, low and behold, got a sudden onset of trigger fingers in BOTH thumbs at exactly the same time. The hand doctor that I saw after 3 months of trying every supplement and topical remedy under the sun, told me I would need surgery if the cortisone shot didn't work. One thumb was better after the first cortisone shot, but the right hand was not. The second cortisone shot wore off after about 6 months and I was headed to surgery. No dietary changes or supplements were making a dent, so I started on 1/4 teaspoon of borax in 1 liter of distilled water per day with NO DAYS OFF, and 3 weeks later, I could bend my thumb a bit. That was significant because one thumb was so inflamed and painful, I couldn't open a bottle or do many simple tasks that require the use of the thumb. A couple of months later, still on the borax protocol, I could easily bend my thumb. The cortisone shots traditionally used for this condition also leave tiny scars where the needle injects... Other than a few days of detoxing when I started on the borax, there have been no side effects—just an ongoing significant improvement in my hands.
(Delray Beach)
07/23/2023
I disagree with your statement that borax is safe for humans to ingest. My psoriasis, which is the proven root and beginnings of p-arthritis, has been in remission since '05 without borax. So my question is, why would I continue to eat/drink triggers for p and p-a instead of eliminating those foods from my everyday diet? It's like a diabetic continuing to eat bread, rice, carbs, alcohol, etc., but because he takes Ozempic once a week, he believes that he can continue to eat himself to death. In the end, he gets sicker. Why not eliminate these triggers from our lives instead of ingesting questionable concoctions?
I don't understand the logic of treating any of the ailments listed here with anything if we can completely avoid them in the first place by cutting out what's creating them. Eighteen years of sharing this protocol of elimination with successful results shows that getting rid of these two terrible conditions is possible with the correct diet.
Have you ever tried any elimination/candida/yeast infection diet to rid yourself of psoriatic arthritis. It would be worth the 90 days of trial to see how it affects you.
Scott Miller,
It's okay to disagree, but my statement is based on scientific fact and you would know that if you read the studies I linked to. I have psoriasis also and borax does not help with the psoriasis, but it also does not cause it to worsen. We are all entitled to our opinions, but you called borax poison and it is not.
Borax at the doses reported being used on EC, is clearly not a poison. In fact, you have to take at least 5 to 10 times the amount used on EC just to reach the lowest NOAEL or no observed adverse events level, meaning nobody showed any ill effects at those doses.
Yes, it is possible that some people may be allergic to borax and can't use it, but you can be allergic to almost anything.
You may not understand why anyone would want to take borax, but for the people who it has helped their arthritis, I'm sure they can't understand why anyone with arthritis wouldn't try borax. Borax is the number one remedy for arthritis on EC.
Art
(Delray Beach)
07/23/2023
There are tens of postings online that give scientific proof that borax is poison. I tried to post them here, but they did not appear. I asked a very specific question about using borax instead of an exclusionary diet and would like to hear your answer.
Two quick, important stories on this topic of P-arthritis. Sometime around '82, I was staying at the Tsell Harim Hotel in Ein Bokek with my gf. The rooms were like bungalows, opening right to the outside/beach/water. Next to us was this wonderful, elderly couple from NY. He was wheelchair bound, completely crippled from psoriatic arthritis. His knees were 3x the size of normal and his hands were disfigured. I had P on my scalp only. At that time, the Dead Sea had been receding steadily b/c of mismanagement. The stairs going down to the water had a steep 2-3' drop and then you had to walk to the sea instead of the concrete stairs bringing you right into the Dead Sea water, like it was once upon a time. The little old lady asked me if I could help her husband down to the water. He was completely incapacitated. I pushed him to the steps and then lifted him easily down to the water. He was old, light and I was in my prime. I put him in the salty sea. He was in the water ALL DAY from morning 'till the sun set. His wife brought him food and water. He didn't leave the water all day. Later they asked for help getting back and I obliged. We saw them in the dining hall and they thanked me.
Long story short, I did this for a couple more days, at which point I noticed they stopped asking me for help. The wheelchair was no longer inside the room. They placed it outside, folded against the wall. Odd. I knocked on the door and asked if they were okay. The old man was standing and said thanks but I can get down there by myself now. My mouth was wide open. This is the first time I saw a miracle in real life. He was able to go back and forth by himself. I have no idea how long his remission lasted, we did not stay in touch, but she gave me a recipe for homemade cheesecake to remember them.
Sometime in the late 90s when I was a GC in PA/NJ, a couple of joints on my right hand were so painful, I asked my wife if I could get those disfigured fingers amputated just below the unbearable pain. She looked at me like I was insane, but I was completely serious. I could not sleep, couldn't move them, it was like they were in a crushing vice 24/7. On and off, bad and worse. Finally, I did the protocol and until now have not had a relapse. I DO CHEAT from time to time. It's hard to imagine life without bread, papaya, watermelon, a bowl of fettuccini alfredo every once in a while. But the pain is not worth it.
(Atlanta, ga)
07/27/2023
The elimination diet is not for everyone and can be dangerous for some people. That said borax works so well for folk and there is no downside.
(TX)
07/27/2023
Scott…..you are a stubborn man. If it was poison in the dosages here, many folks would be dead….or at the very least be feeling very very bad. Borax is safe in the recommended dosages. We feel the benefit of taking borax. You certainly don't have to. No one is forcing you.
TABLE SALT is about as toxic as Borax. You seem to want to flog a dead horse.
(MANITOBA)
08/11/2023
I don't understand why you are going off on different topics that have nothing to do with why I responded to your post in the first place. You said borax is poison and I showed you with two scientific studies that at the dose that it is used here on EC for arthritis, it is not poisonous, not even close. Almost anything can be poisonous if you take enough of it, but nobody on EC is taking anywhere near that type of dose of borax. I brought the proof, but you just make claims with zero proof of your own.
Your comment about the Dead Sea had nothing to do with you calling borax poison and nothing to do with my reply. Bring the proof and we can talk, otherwise you are just wasting time.
Art
(Delray Beach)
07/23/2023
The topic is psoriatic arthritis and remedies. That is the topic.
I did a post with 5 links about borax being poison and they were not posted. Searching 'is borax poison if ingested' will bring up lots of posts about the toxicity of borax. So if the person that did not publish those links I posted wants to put them up along with my answer, you can see them. It's not my decision to exclude them, it's whomever is approving answers here. We are at a Mexican standoff and you refuse to answer what I asked you originally about this exclusionary dietary protocol. This is all part of the same answer. Why ingest something that can be toxic when you can just stop eating the triggers themselves? To me, it makes no sense.
zero proof? here it is: toxicity: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2776007/
(Michigan)
09/04/2023
What I was replying to is your claim that borax is poison, so that is my topic. In your first study link, the dosing used was in mg/ml. That would be equivalent to oral dosing borax in large gram dosing in order to reach serum levels that high. Nobody takes those doses of borax on EC. The serum levels reached with the levels taken on EC are only pg/ml to ng/ml. As I said, a high enough dose of anything can kill you and this study used very high dosing.
This study is not a human or animal study but was only using blood from 40 men and then they added these high doses of borax to the blood and tested what happened to the cells in the blood. This completely eliminates the natural elimination process that the body uses to filter. That includes the liver, kidneys and digestive tract which all are constantly removing toxicants. In their blood testing, the borax level remained the same because it was not being constantly filtered out as it would be in the body. In the body the borax has a half-life of only 21 hours which means it is cleared from the body fairly quickly as discussed here:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6595986/#:~:text=The halflife (t 1/2, low amounts of boric acid.
In the study example you linked to, the borax never has any chance to clear or be filtered out which would increase the toxicity of such high doses, exactly as the study showed and would be expected.
Your second link is not a study, but rather an article that makes statements which are supposedly backed by three links included in the article. The first link does not work. the second link supposedly takes you to a rat study to confirm the statements where they gave the rats 70 grams or 70, 000 mg of borax and surprisingly to me it did not kill the rats but caused significant damage. This is not actually a rat study, but rather a compilation of various doses in different animals and they include this reference to humans :
| oral/man | lowest published lethal dose: 709 mg/kg |
So I take 985 mg of borax. If I convert the above dose (709 mg per kilogram) to me, that would be 56, 720 mg of borax (I weigh 80 kg) or 57 times the dose that I take. Again, too much of anything will kill you and I think it is reasonable for me to accept that taking 57 times my normal dose of borax may kill me. Thank you for helping me prove my point with your own study! Nobody on EC is taking these crazy high doses. If you take a 57 times higher dose of most supplements you are going to have serious health problems or be dead and borax is no exception!
To give a little context, my bottle of Extra Strength Acetaminophen (Generic Tylenol) says to take 1000 mg every 6 hours. Medscape says the following about acetaminophen :
Minimum toxic doses of acetaminophen for a single ingestion, posing significant risk of severe hepatotoxicity, are as follows:
-
Adults: 7.5-10 g
-
Children: 150 mg/kg; 200 mg/kg in healthy children aged 1-6 years
So I would have to take only 10 times the regular dose in order to already be in the toxic range. That's just 10 times compared to the 57 times for borax.
Too much of most things can kill you, but nobody is taking these kind of dosages of borax!
Art
(EarthClinic Is Awesome)
07/25/2023
Borax kills fungi such as candida. It has many other benefits. One of them is allowing a person to enjoy their favorite foods without getting psoriasis. Read up on it more. :)
In his writings 500 years ago Paracelsus clearly identifies fundamental principles which also correspond to long established common sense: The dose, host, timing and combinations make a poison or a cure. Another important parallel principle goes by the name hormesis. Borate is phytotoxic at excessive dose, ie, kills plants including fungi. Consequently borate at sufficient dose will kill a ruminant.
Teresa,
I haven't updated that information in a long time. Can you tell me what type of psoriasis you have and how much coverage you have? Are you mild, moderate or severe in terms of coverage or what % of coverage you have?
Art
(Michigan)
04/04/2024
