Replied By Kathy (Chatham, Ohio) on 06/10/2008

EC: Kathy, we found a huge jar of citric acid in an Asian grocery store for just a couple of dollars! Think it was in the spice section...

Replied By Cehowell (Sv, Az) on 04/22/2011

http://chemistry.about.com/od/howthingsworkfaqs/a/howboraxworks.htm

"Risks Associated with Borax

Borax is natural, but that does not mean it is automatically safer for you or for 'the environment' than man-made chemicals. Although plants need boron, too much of it will kill them, so borax can be used as an herbicide. Borax may also be used to kill roaches, ants, and fleas. In fact, it is also toxic to people. Signs of chronic toxic exposure include red and peeling skin, seizures, and kidney failure. The estimated lethal dose (ingested) for adults is 15-20 grams; less than 5 grams can kill a child or pet. For this reason, borax should not be used around food. More commonly, borax is associated with skin, eye, or respiratory irritation. It is also important to point out that exposure to borax may impair fertility or cause damage to an unborn child."

Personally, I would not use this on my skin or scalp. It sounds just as bad as commercial shampoos.

Replied By Jane (Portland, Or) on 05/16/2011

Replied By Bill (San Fernando, San Fernando, Philippines) on 05/17/2011

I went to a well known health shop recently and found some boron supplements. On checking the back list for the ingredients it said the capsules contained Sodium Tetraborate -- or Borax. Anyone can verify this for themselves in any health shop like I did. Personally, I really can't understand the fear about borax -- I use it internally and externally quite often in water mainly as an anti-fungal, but if people prefer to pay more for "Boron Tablets" than for something as cheap as 20 Mule Team Borax, then this is simply up to them.

Some also complain about the purity of Arm & Hammer Baking Soda or 20 Mule Team Borax and seem to implicitly trust the purity of the compounded tablet. I made the mistake of buying European made Magnesium Citrate tablets the other day. They were huge -- nearly an inch long -- but only contained 400 mgs of Mag Citrate. When I checked the back list it had several additives -- Mag Stearate, Stearic Acid, Calcium Diphosphate, Cellulose starch(??), Silica, Titanium Dioxide and Vegetable Glycerin. So I crunched one of the pills to powder and put it on a teaspoon -- I know what 1000 mgs looks like on a teaspoon and lo and behold it was over 1000 mgs.

So my question is this -- if that huge pill contained only 400 mgs of mag citrate then what did the other 600 mgs contain ? Hint: Think Codex Alimentarius.

Secondly, I have mentioned several times on EC that sodium tetraborate is less toxic than common table salt. What is advised as a borax dosage by Ted from Bangkok represents a micronutrient dosage -- nowhere near a dangerous dose.

You can also easily verify this by checking the MSDS(Material Safety Data Sheet) for sodium tetraborate and sodium chloride(table salt) online and compare the LD50 dosages (lethal median dose) for yourself. MSDS is the absolute bible for usage, toxicity and disposal of all chemicals and is the main standard used in the world today.

Replied By Mary (Regina, Saskatchewan) on 05/17/2011

Any info you have, or even anyone else reading this would be greatly appreciated.

Replied By Andrea (Norwalk, Ct, Usa) on 06/02/2011

Replied By Intirb (Long Valley, Nj, Usa) on 08/25/2011

For anyone confused, Borax is the salt form of boric acid, and when you add borax to water, it dissolves to become boric acid and sodium. Boric acid is dangerous!

For more information, check out wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax

It states very clearly that borax can be toxic, especially to infants!

Replied By Maria (Gippsland, Australia) on 08/25/2011

You say it states that borax is toxic especially to infants, I could only find that Boric Acid solutions used as an eye wash or on abraded skin are known to be particularly toxic to infants, especially after repeated use, because of the slow elimination rate. (21) This is taken from: Goodman and Gillman's: The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics, 6th edition, chapter on Antiseptics and Disinfectants, page 971. I find it interesting that a few sites (who talk about borax being toxic) quote this as a reference but there is never a reference where this came from. I would still err on the side of caution in regards to infants.

There is NO WHERE on EC that borax is recommended at these levels, not even close. Nor is boric acid recommended to be taken orally. Plus it is only recommended to be taken 4 days on and 3 days off.

Replied By Lc (Washington, Dc) on 09/09/2011

Replied By Margen (Sydney, Nsw, Australia) on 10/24/2011

1.Yes it hydrolyses (is split up when in water) into boric acid and a salt. But it is actually quite a complex situation. Some of it will also form a borate anion (charged particle) which acts as an alkali. This means that overall it acts as a buffer (pushes mixtures back to neutral when they become too acidic or too alkaline, either of which would be undesirable on your hair or skin). So you need to read information about borax, not boron or boric acid, to find out safety data - as it will be describing the overall situation, not just part of it.

2. Most materials are toxic or dangerous if used to an extreme. For example, Warfarin is used as a heart medication, but is also a rat poison. Vitamin A is toxic in excess. Drinking alcohol can also be toxic if you consume enough in one go. Just because something is toxic if you consume enough, doesn't make it dangerous in small quantities. Borax is used in food, health supplements and eye washes. So it is probably reasonable to assume its is safe diluted on your hair.

3. If you are going to read information like safety data sheets, or pharmaceutical information, make sure you read it all, and check what it means if you don't understand it. The 15 to 20 grams quoted as being toxic, is as already pointed out by Maria, is 15 to 20grams PER KILOGRAM OF YOUR BODY WEIGHT. That is a lot (especially if you weigh what I do)!

4. I am not a cockroach or ant. The method that borax uses to kill insects is not a mechanism that works on humans. It may sound dramatic to say it is a poison, but it's not relevant to human use.

5. Be aware when reading Material Safety Data Sheets that different countries have different rules about what is included and how it is said. They are intended as guides for professional or laboratory use not really for consumers. Its a good idea to read them to look for dangers but it is necessary to put them in context.

For example, some will say to wear gloves when using all materials in a laboratory. For example the UK version for table salt says this. The requirements to wear gloves can sound sinister, as if you need to do it to avoid terrible skin problems, but in fact it is a standard comment for most things.

Try looking up the US MSDS for acetic acid (the main ingredient that along with water makes up kitchen vinegar) http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9922769. It lists all kinds of dangers of skin exposure and toxicities.... it's even corrosive to metals (Borax data looks like no problem at all by comparison), but knowing that these are referring to extreme circumstances, and that in vinegar it is greatly diluted, I am happy to use it (diluted even further) to rinse my hair.

Replied By Avonlea820 (Warwick, Ri, U.s.a) on 12/16/2011

Replied By B.a. (Albuquerque, N.m. Usa) on 02/01/2012

Using Borax allows the natural oils to migrate down the hair shaft, and eventually it can feel waxy when wet. When you pour the borax water over your hair it won't feel clean, but it is! When it dries your hair is very soft, and if you have waves it will hold a curl. Just make sure to neutralize. Also, for itching - grapeseed or jojoba oil mixed with ascorbic acid and vegetable glycerin make a nice scalp "mask" for dryness. Leave on and rinse out. Also - you can spritz a little glycerin w/oil and water on your hair for dryness. Make sur eto include the grapeseed oil if you live in a dry area!!

Replied By Benni (San Diego, California) on 06/27/2012

I keep a bar of castille soap, an old shampoo bottle filled with borax and water, and a water bottle filled with lemon juice and water in my shower. That's it.

I tried the borax formula with baking soda and didn't like it as much as straight borax. Also, the combo seemed to create more crystals in the bottle which were annoying. I still get crystals from the borax though. I were less lazy, I'd strain the crystals from the cooled water/borax mix through a mesh screen before pouring into the bottle.

I rinse with lemon juice mixed with water. Pretty much in the same proportions - an inch or two in the bottom of a water bottle, the rest is water.

I just buy some organic bottled lemon juice from Costco. It's not the best tasting (prefer fresh for food) but it's 100% lemon, and works well as a rinse.

Apple cider vinegar works better as a rinse, although both lemon and ACV work as totally awesome conditioners. Like most people, however, I don't want to smell like a pickle. Lemon is a very acceptable alternative because I want my hair to have lighter highlights.

I only partly, very, very quickly, rinse the lemon out of my hair before turning the shower off. Again, if I weren't so lazy, or if I were recommending this to a friend, I'd say "run the lemon juice through a mesh strainer" but I haven't noticed any pulp bits in my hair. It provides the added bonus of highlights.

Another bonus, perhaps, is that I seem to have less acne issues on my face and back since using this on my hair. I tend to let both the boron and lemon juice dribble onto then stay on my skin for a while (lazy person's toner) while I shave my legs and soap up other areas.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has noticed improved skin with this "shampoo" formula.

My hair tends to be oily - as does my skin and needs to be washed daily. On particularly oily-hair days, I use a little of my coconut/castille bar soap on the areas of my head/hair that seem oiliest (near my ears and forehead), lather it up, then proceed to add the borax.

Someone else mentioned that the hair feels waxy while wet (with the borax solution). That is true. It's very weird feeling -- for me, it feels as though I doused gobs of oil onto the ends of my hair when I've finished massaging into my hair and am ringing out the borax while rinsing it (my hair is long). But when dry, it's just looks and feels soft and luxurious; and it ends up less oily than when I used regular shampoo.

Also, even if you want to continue using your shampoo, I highly recommend you at least try lemon juice (if your hair is light, or if you intend to rinse well) because it's just the best conditioner I've ever used other than the stinky apple cider vinegar. No more tangled rat's nests after the shower and all day long. It's amazing.

My hair is completely straight and is of average thickness. I'm not sure how well this would work on other hair types but other reviewers with curly hair seem to agree it's great.

This formula isn't a science - maybe someone else out there has it perfectly proportioed for maximum benefit but I agree with other reviewers who say to relax on the meassurements.

I like this much better than shampoo and it's so cheap! Would like to work out how to add in some chammomile to help with the highlights. Not sure whether to mix that with borax or lemon juice. If anyone has ideas, would appreciate them.

Last thought: I read somewhere that for the first week or so, the hair can seem more oily than usual using this formula. I wasn't really able to tell for sure but I think that is true. (Just remember to use soap or other shampoo as needed while going through this transition.)