Full Thread

Sid (Springfield, Mo) on 08/30/2009

Atrial Fibrillation, H. pylori bacteria, yogurt...

A close relative suffers from atrial fibrillation. I looked around for what information I could find, and on one website found this quote:

"Bacteria Linked to Dangerous Heart Rhythm Patients who have atrial fibrillation (AF) (rapid, irregular rhythm in the heart's upper chambers) are 20 times more likely than others to test positive for Helicobacter *pylori* bacteria. Self-defense: If you are diagnosed with AF, you should be checked for H. *pylori*. Controlling the infection using antibiotics reduces (or eliminates) the heart problem. Annibale Sandro Montenero, MD, director, arrhythmia center, and chair of cardiology, MultiMedica General Hospital, Milan, Italy. Overactive Thyroid Tied to Irregular Heart Rhythm" Anne R."

I am aware that some have used yogurt to control the H. pylori, by eating it twice daily over an extended period of time.

Has anyone had any experience with this, either having both atrial fibrillation and an H. pylori infection, or having used yogurt to treat an H. pylori infection with success?

Replied By Davee (Newark, De) on 11/05/2009

I had a persistent case of AF, which has largely disappeared since my severe case of H Pylori was treated with antibiotics. My doctor's effort to determine whether I even had H Pylori infection was prompted by an obscure article by Italian researchers who found that almost all of the AF patients were infected.

Replied By Margaret (Victoria, B.c. Canada) on 07/06/2012

Re the atrial fibrillation thread - mine usually starts at night - no reason that I can figure. I take a couple of Hawthorne capsules and that usually calms everything down again. Sometimes I have forgotten to eat a banana during the day. Occasionally I take a tablespoon of Floradix Iron. When I was younger and pregnant I often had it and it was very debilitating. I found out by chance that Vitamin B fixed it, too. Thanks for a great web-site.

Replied By Lloyd (Charlotte, Nc) on 12/26/2012

Atrial Fib and tychacardia (irregular and fast) heart problems very often are caused by lack of magnesium.

Just google "Atrial fribulation deficient magnesium" and you'll get lots of info.

I take 500 mg daily of mag citrate. I am 63 and have always had a low resting HR (65) with BP normally 108/77.

I attribute that to Vit E (natural) at 1,000 iu daily and mag/potassium daily along with Co Q 10. And I don't eat especially heathy... I do eat hamburgers and FF. But I take supplements as pointed out above. I take ACV daily, minerals, amino acids some digestive aids, B vitamins, some herbals such as feverfew for elimination of migrains, Ca AEP to ward off a variety of degenerative diseases. I excercise very little but once a week go to the gym and get in a real 20 min cardio workout where I really breath hard and work my legs/heart and lungs. (I argue that this "leg-lung theory of mine says that at least once a week the lungs must be pushed so as not to atrophy and the legs must be pushed so as to keep open blood to capilaries and joints. This will keep one mobile as one ages.)

So I am not a work out nut. I wonder if too much work out can actually hurt over the long run. You must get some but 5 or 6 times weekly? Now if anything I am "extreme" on the suppliment end. I have not listed all the things I take but if it makes sense I seriously consider putting it on my consume list. For instance, I started taking 5,000 mg of arginine in a powder form in the past year. First thing in the morning. Google "arginine health benefits" and you'll find lots of great reasons to take large quantities of arginine. I take inosotol and coline; phosphytydal serine etc. things that can help brain, cardio... I'm into that sort of thing and try to encourage anyone to consume suppliments.

To kill virus/bacteria and fungus infection as the system ages and I lose antibody protection, I drink a little colloidal silver four or five times a week. So I rarely get sick.

Replied By Lucinda (London, On, Canada) on 02/14/2013

Suffering from Atrial Fibrillation? Please google: Dr. Carolyn Dean Atrial Fibrillation. She is a wealth of information, is an MD and a ND. She advocates Magnesium for this ailment. She is so right. Also, check out George Eby Institute re omega 6 fatty acids re the heart...... very eye-opening. I sincerely hope you'll investigate both of these brilliant people.

Replied By Clare (Arizona) on 04/25/2022
Well thank you so very much!!!!! I knew there had to be good information out there about A-fib but I haven't been able to find it for 5 years. I knew listening to doctors was pointless, self-defeating, and ultimately dangerous. I have learned many helpful things but could never really put them all together due to intense immense brain fog. I already ordered the ReMag and minerals. Here's to health!

Replied By Sam (Miami, Florida) on 10/09/2014

Sid, your post made me to return to the thought about h.pylori role in my health problems, Afib in particular. I googled essential oils for h.pylori eradication, and there are some studies done to confirm the efficacy of many oils against h.pylori. I will try to experiment with it, as I am a firm believer in essential oils, just a gut instinct. Also, I am reading a book The chemistry of essential oils made simple or God's love manifests in molrculed. Essential oils are god given gifts to humanity.

Replied By Eve (Sydney, Australia ) on 08/08/2021
Be careful using essential oils. Twice, I have developed liver problems from using essential oils. I was told that the effect on the liver is accumulative.

Replied By Hwkmn (NH, US) on 10/24/2014

It could just be that simple. Seems as tho allopathic medicine complicates this condition while over analyzing and medicating. Read the medical blogs on other sites, its full of, "My ablation quit working, my meds worked for a time but stopped, my side effects are killing me, etc". I'll take my chances with the natural cure and live or die by it.

Replied By Pat (Pa, US) on 11/12/2014

To Hwkmn 05: I agree that the meds will kill us! I've switched to Hawthorn and taurine with several other common supplements and feel much better.Down to 12.5mg toprol every other day for the afib and last episode took a few hawthorn caps and taurine and didn't even take fleccainide(which I keep on hand for a "rescue drug" when I go into it to get me back to NSR. Hoping not to have to take the flecc anymore and just use the supplements.I usually get it once every 2-3 weeks! It is still scary and I have had it for some 2+ years now.Only went to E.R. the first time. They say it won't kill you but it sure feels like it will! Also been using the BS molasses, thanks to all the advice from people on this wbsite! Hope some day it goes away and doesn't come back! 20 years from now they'll have some idea of something really stupid that causes this in us! Right now they have "NO" idea! So how can they cure it????

Replied By Bee (New York) on 11/12/2014

Pat;

I am with you as I have said on numerous posts about the fact I weaning off of Metropolol for high blood pressure.. I am doing it slowly but its been like 8 months now and still don't feel stable.. down to 25mgs. and trying to get to 12mgs.. although I have had side effects I wouldn't wish any of this stuff on anyone and yes I agree since I take Taurine, L Carnitine and other supplements been feeling a lot better and I put about 1 tablespoon of BM in my tea ... yes feeling better.

Oh; by the way do you cut your pills into 12mgs. or do you just get the pills that way already.. I am having a hard time even with a pill cutter to cut pills into 12mgs.. I am not sure if I am doing the right amount.

Thanks for your affirmations and stay well...

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 11/13/2014

Pat, Thats awesome you've cut down. I truly believe the meds are only a bridge to the costlier methods of ablations and mini mazes. Even with those methods, its no guarantee and still may need meds after. At some point these supplements will hopefully do some restructuring of heart cells. You might be getting some Potassium benefit from the BSM. I see you did Haw to convert, which is fine, however, my ND told me that depending on the amount, not to go with a rate control med with it. I usually do 3000 mg of Haw, 3gms Taurine, 2000mg of Mag to convert. The Flec is rhythm control so may be an option. If you did a few Haw, that may be ok to go with Flec after. He also had no problem with Flec as a PIP. Said the faster you convert, the better, even with a drug. Not like we re on a standing dosage. But if the supplements work, I see no need for Meds to convert. BSM is working out well for me too. Great thought on not be able to cure if you dont know the cause!!

Replied By Pat (Pa, US) on 11/15/2014

To Bee: I just break the "scored" 25mg pill in half! That's why I preferred the Metapropolol to the other heart rate drug they gave me to try.I think it was Cardizem.I had no control over how much I could take at one time! But as I said, I still take it (12.5mg) every other day.Not off it completely.Afraid it may be helping me from going into a "rapid" afib episode. But trying to use the alternative supplements instead of more drugs.

Replied By Pat ( Pa, US) on 11/15/2014

To Hawkmn05: Thanks for the tip from the ND sbout using H. with the beta blocker to get back in NSR. I only take half of my 25mg Toprol ir I take it with the H.And I have only taken I think 1 ior 2 H.pills(500mg) at that time.Why do you think the ND thinks it is better to take the flecc to get back? I am afraid of my body eventually not responding to that and also of taking it that frequently! Don't think it is a good drug for my heart! And even though I have the "afib" I think my heart is still pretty "healthy" so far. I don't view myself as having "heart issues". Of course none of these drugs are exactly"good" for me are they? I think the alternatives are the way to go.I even tried acupuncture in the beginning but I don't think it helped me much. Just made me a little more relaxed about it. The anxiety about it is what does me in.Just waiting for it! So... now I take"valerian".Dr.Oz says it's good for anxiety and works as well as the Rx.drugs do.Just tak 1 a day.Was taking atavan(the md prescribed it for anx.) and don't seem to need it since I started the valerian.Just wish I could find an ND around here that knows more about these things than I do.But I have to be my own doctor! Or take their poisons! And have the ablations, etc.which as I know don't necessarily work! But the payouts are big! Thanks for any advice you have.I'm getting better every day!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 11/18/2014

Pat, for my condition, episodes are rare, no more than 3 per year. ND wants me to convert in 4-8 hours. If its longer than that, he believes it more imperative to get back to NSR asap. Fibrosis of the heart has a greater chance of occurring the longer were in AF. So using Flec 3 times per year until remodeling takes place is ok with him. He did say that I could come in and he would intravenously convert me also. Ablations need to improve alot more for alot of us to consider. As it stands now, I don't view as a good bang for the buck.

Acu will work, but you need to have someone familiar with AF and persistent method. I was in a session for 90 min, and 45 min later in NSR.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 11/19/2014

I understand.Y ou are lucky only 3 per yr! Did you say acupuncture works well for you? I did try it and went for about 6-7 sessions but still had episodes so stopped spending the money.S o far what I am doing is working pretty well for me. And when I need to take the drugs I take them. At least not all the time now thanks to H. mag, and BSM! And "earth clinic"! Wondering how "Bee" is doing with the weaning off of metaprop? I am down to 12.5mg every other day now. And about the ablation, I don't think it stops it forever and sometimes not at all so I will wait till there is a better opt unless I get much worse. Good luck to you and keep posting!

Replied By Bee (New York) on 11/19/2014

Hi Pat. I just read you're post and thank you so much for thinking of me.

As far as my weaning I am still on 25mgs.of Metropolol and trying to get down to 12.50 but its been tough. I don't get why I am having such a hard time but I must be in that percent range of people who have a high sensitivity to this stuff (crack as I call it)I have read so many stories about this drug its insane and they aren't all good. I should be happy that I got down to 25 from 100 but that took 8 months and many horrible side effects and back sliding at times. I am doing all I can and taking what I need..even added the Hawthorn tea and will most likely get the Hawthorn pill.. I also do the BSM and magnesium with other things

Good to hear you guys are doing well..

Replied By Pat (Pa., US) on 11/22/2014

To Bee: Sorry to hear you are having a hard time weaning. I also though was thinking of going to the next step, 7.5mg, and am having trouble. Don't know if it is in my 'head' or whether I just can't start taking a lower dose! What have you heard about this drug? You said you knew something about this? I will let you know.

Replied By Bee (New York) on 11/22/2014

Hi Pat;

well I have read so many testimonies how this drug is shall I say insane to get off of for some people with high sensitivity to it.. I think I am in that bracket.. But it does go by how long you were on it and the miligrams you took.. Since it's a beta blocker, it suppresses the receptors in the heart and when the pill is taken away bit by bit those receptors or adrenaline are activated again. I hope I got that right...Plus one has to get the drug out of the system ..there is def. a mental thing to it also.. If I were you, instead of cutting the pill extend the time you take it by 15 minutes a few times a week.. When you do the 15 minutes then extend it more time.. This way the drug comes out of the system slowly.. I hope this makes sense... So it's process of elimination and not cutting the pill. So now I am up to taking my 12mgs. pill at 5 pm already and then another 12mgs. at 12 midnight.. Hopefully I will eliminate the midnight pill.. does this make sense.??

Replied By Hwkmn05 (NH, US) on 11/23/2014

Ok Bee and Pat, here's my suggestion, stop worrying about stopping a med and just keep adding good things into your system. First of all 7.5 or 12.5mg is most likely doing nothing positive or negative. I can tell you this, no amount kept me from going into AF, so that small amount won't either. I added some serious power walking when I was quitting it and had some rough nights, but eventually your body will tell you when its time.

Pat, Not sure if Acu worked as I did so many other supplements, only that was the last thing I had done before NSR. She was trying different sites, and one she hit, shot a pain to my heart. IT was like a zap, quick shot. After that my rate went down and within 45 min I was out.

BSM is the best with Mag/Haw. Had a few too many red wines other night and had that pausing feeling. 1 tbls with Mag and within minutes, steady and calm.

Replied By Bee (New York) on 11/23/2014

Hwk.

I know what you are saying.. I am taking ACV, beet root, magnesium, COQ10, L Carnitine, Taurine, Olive leaf, Vit.B , C, D, E, Alpha Lopic Acid, BSM drinking organic herbal teas so that isn't the issue.... I was taking (M) for high blood pressure and now of course it has messed with my heart rate.. and yes I do go by how my body feels and I do listen to what my body says.. I did not follow the doctors instructions because If I did God knows what would have happened. I am following my inner guidance...so it has taken me longer to wean down. I just do not like the side effects one bit and they are real... Some days I am afraid to even go for a walk because all the things I read said do not do exercise when weaning off a beta blocker..it puts too much strain on the heart.. I will most likely get Hawthorn .. I am drinking Hawthorn tea for now..

thank you

Replied By Sam (Florida) on 11/24/2014

Yogurt for h. Pylori is like a bandaid for gangrene. Read latest report on yougurt on mercola.

Replied By Pat (Pa., US) on 11/26/2014

Thank you Hawkmn! I understand what you're saying because I think the same thing but I think Bee is right and there is a little something causing a dependency on it. I will get off it, I'm sure. And believe you in that it probably won't affect my afib to be on or off it. I will just take it when I have an episode, like I do the fleccainide sometimes. I don't believe that there is any drug they have that will keep me from having the afib because they don't know what causes it! Just make the BP companies money giving us useless drugs and telling us that they will help! If they helped maybe I would take them! And to Bee, thanks for the tip that is what I am doing now! Try the BSM, too it really calms things. Just 1 Tbsp. a day! Will keep posting. So happy to find all of this help! Happy holiday!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (NH, US) on 12/02/2014

Pat, yes the BSM is as good as the Mag for me now. Wondering if Potassium levels are critical for us also? Starting month 4 AF free on supplements only. Not even an aspirin in my cabinet.

Dr Rath says it best. "Conventional medicine has invented its own diagnostic terms to cover the fact that it does not know the origin of most arrhythmias. "Paroxysmal" arrhythmia means nothing else than "causes unknown." As a direct consequence, the therapeutic options of conventional medicine are confined to treating the symptoms of irregular heartbeat. Beta-blockers, calcium antagonists, and other anti-arrhythmic drugs are given to patients in the hope that they decrease the incidents of irregular heartbeat. Lacking an understanding of the primary cause of irregular heartbeat, the therapeutic approaches by conventional medicine are not specific and therefore frequently fail." http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/pdf-files/heart_book.pdf

Replied By Pat ( Pa) on 12/09/2014

I am on supplements only and having no more afib attacks than when on meds. They seem to be shorter lived with hawthorneIi guess. Hope it continues. Also taking magnesium, etc.but take hawthorne and it works as good as a beta blocker ( toprol) it seems. Took less flec when I had the last episode only 150 instead of 200. Will try 100 next time. Thanks for the tips!

Replied By Bee (New York) on 12/09/2014

Pat. great news.......so happy for you and yes hope it continues.

I am down to 12 mgs. of Metoprolol but was taking it for hbp and anxiety...I am def . on natural remedies . I bought some Hawthorne; the liquid kind but hesitating on using it yet.. I don't know why?? waiting for a sign from above lol

Oh; ever since weaning off and using magnesium and yes I use extra for now palpitations (fingers crossed) have not been around.. I am still getting the jittery feeling and a few side effects but working through it.. I just get nervous about my heart rate being normal again and I took 10 months to do this.. It Is still scary.. I just want to be normal again ...lol

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh, US) on 12/10/2014

Bee, lol on the sign from above!! Gosh, if that happened it may send me into AF. It is a delicate process to switch from Meds to Supplements. For me however it was simple, because I was living, thankfully, proof, that Meds fail. Metoprolol failed. Warfarin, fail. Flecainide, not only fails, but kills some with weak hearts. Flec as a PIP I dont take much issue with, but for me, Hawthorne/Mag/Taurine etc, worked faster, so I just don't see the need. It's still in my cabinet, unopened and hopefully stays that way.

Pat, what a positive post! I hope this continues and gets better over time, not worse. Of course the allopaths are quick to tell us AF gets worse over time. Yeah, on their protocol it does!

Replied By Bee (New York, US) on 12/10/2014

Ha Hwk.. What I meant from signs above was that I listen to my own inner guidance and higher self to determine what is good for me and when I can quit something or whatever.. I listened to my gut and psyche to wean off medication and not by what the doctors had told me because they were wrong.. and of course from others and what I learned on EC which is priceless.

Anyway; yes I take Taurine, Magnesium and will be trying Hawthorn soon when I feel the sign LOL. I just would like my heart rate to not go bonkers anymore but its def. the withdrawel from weaning off the (M) which I hate but what else can I do?? I am doing all that I can already.oh; I also do EFT tapping and that seems to lower my bp and heart rate.. I also meditate which helps..

thank You

Replied By Travis (Minneapolis, US) on 12/11/2014

Hwkmn05 introduced me to this thread and I'm glad he did! I have had paroxysmal afib for going on 9 years now. Up until now I've had one episode a year (if that). Now I get 1-2 per week! I have an ablation scheduled for February but I'd love to find a way to keep my episodes to a minimum between now and then - and to have a program in place after the ablation to hopefully lick this crap.

To that end, can you guys tell me what "BSM" stands for? And do you take it daily? And when you have an episode, how much Hawthorne Berry do you take? I've been doing Flecainide with every episode but I'd like to limit the amount I take so if I can supplement it with Hawthorne Berry that would be great. I just don't know how much I should take.

Travis

EC: BSM = Blackstrap Molasses

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 12/16/2014

Travis, welcome. As you can see on EC, the response time is a bit delayed unlike other sites.

Pat and Bee, sorry to report that I went into AF last Thurs am. I did not have the luxury to wait for supplements to work, so I did a heavy dose of Flec, 300mg. I think now much less would work as I was in NSR in an hour. ND put me on high dose of Vit C thinking when Im battling something I go out of NSR, which has been the case, and suggested taking more Acetyl Carnitine. Now however there has been some increase in PACs, 5-10 per day/night, which isnt horrible, but of some concern. Im not one bit discouraged and remain on course, Med free and seeking more alternative remedies. Yes, The BSM is great and possibly doing other things in my system, including weight loss.

Replied By Bee (New York) on 12/16/2014

Hwk..

Thanks for sharing and rats on the Afib.. sorry to hear that.........sounds like you are in good hands though.. Have you read Linus Pauling protocol on Vit.C and Lysine for the heart?

Have you ever tried other modalities such as acupuncture or energy healing or anything like that.. I do EFT (emotional freedom technique) and it seems to work at times. It's acupuncture without needles and I use utube videos. I don't have afib but I found one for heart issues and when I tap on the points on the body my heart rate goes down when I feel its a bit high..

Hope you find things you need..

Replied By Hwkmn05 (NH, US) on 12/17/2014

Bee, no dude, I'm not into crystals either...lol. Seriously tho, Kinesiology is as weird as I go. I have tried the tapping with temporary success, but I have mixed feelings about that. Yes I have read up on Pauling, very interesting also.

Acu I have tried, but only when in AF. I can't commit to the amount they would like me to.

I'm next going for testing of metals. Just finished the salt test levels for high levels in urine, negative. If those tests are positive, fillings will come out and will go for oral chelation.

Kineser did help a great deal with neck issues and working on getting the curve back in my straight neck. Possibly this is it, affecting vagal nerve, but then, who the heck really knows with this condition! Of course he did not agree with all the supplements I'm taking. Believes I need to get all from right foods and I'm guessing he's an herbavore. Screw that, give me Afib and my Tbone!

Replied By Bee (New York, US) on 12/17/2014

Hwk.. I am a girl so you may address me as dudes lol..

Anyway; well you might have hit on something.. heavy metals could be it.. and yes chelation but I don't quite understand chelation and doesn't it have to be done under very good supervision..

I have heard of Vit.C drips.. that last naturopathic horror show doctor did that in that office.. I just wonder how much it cost but yeah; anything for relief..

I remember the last convo about electronics. My bet is on that stuff too.. Microwaves, computers, etc.etc...

Hwk... I forgot to add........ you must have heard of earthing or grounding?? Dr. Stephen Sinatra even believes in it.

I know in summertime when I am outside with bare feet on the ground everyday for half hour or so heck I feel a lot better .. now it's too cold here in NY so I won't be doing much of that now but they do sell grounding sheets, blankets and bio mats.

It's just that a lot of these things get pricey ...

You can also make your own grounding things.

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh, US) on 12/22/2014

Bee and Pat, onto the latest cure. Grounding, not so much. It may have some benes, but not sure how it can contribute to our heart area.

I am now 1 week PVCs free since March, after a simple visit to the Kinesiologist. His feeling that vagus nerve was seriously pinched, and heat, not ice on my neck every day and night for a few hours. Working on getting the curve back in my neck. I've drunk coffee , fatigued myself, dehydrated etc, notta, zippo skips or pausing. Interesting that once when I had low back injury, PT had me doing the cobra exercise, on stomach, lifting upper torso as high as I could with 5 pillows under me. Worked. Now putting a big pillow under my neck, hanging head off the bed backwards and heating it. Time will tell, but to date, best thing yet. I'm not sure this will work for everyone, but for $40 visit, well worth it to try. Stopped mag and hawthorne this week also, just to see and so far, no issues.

Replied By Pat (Pa., US) on 12/24/2014

To Hawkmn05: Sorry about the afib attack. But glad to hear you are not discouraged. Not surprised that it happened, I guess. We always wish something will work to get rid of it completely! But no worries, you're still doing alot of good things for yourself that may be helping in the long run! I also believe that mine is from vagus nerve and after you mention it probably will go to a good chiro after holidays are over and let them align my spine if that will help! So hang in there! I also have had a few episides lately and cannot drink any alcohol at all! Or I definitely go into afib! Sooo, on to the next plan! Definitely think all the supplements are helping though, especially H. and Mag. We will find a way to stop this, yet! Good luck and keep posting on how it goes! Sounds very interesting! Take care!

Replied By Sam (Miami, FL) on 12/26/2014

Check if Buteyko method might be the next thing to employ.

Keep in mind you really do need to work with a practitioner.

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 12/29/2014

Sam, thats a very interesting method to say the least. I could agree with most of that. Yes, you really do need some professional guidance with Buteyko. Nothing to play around with. My CP was 25-28, not great , not horrible, but Id like to see 60 and see the beast gone for good. Conventional meds once again notice the issue with OSA, but ignore the root of the problem, open mouth and rapid breathing, tossing an ugly cumbersome mask on patients, not for me. Thanks.

Replied By Sam (Miami, FL) on 12/30/2014

Only a practitioner can help you to calculate correct CP. One can't observe himself therefore is not aware if he is ignoring his first impulse to breath. What I find extremely interesting is that low co2 levels affect the entire function of our bodies, its chemistry and electrophysiology. I am waiting for my evaluation via sky which is scheduled mid January. My CP is 15.

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 01/26/2015

Pat and Bee, NSR this winter? Long time no hear but Guessing no news is good news. Still AF free here and getting neck adjusted with massage for triggers in muscles. No PVCS and no sign of heart skipping. Time will tell, Stay warm and NSR!

Replied By Topsy (Australia) on 02/02/2015

hi Everyone......It is so comforting to read that I am not in this battle alone...............I have picked up some good tips from everyone......The doc, s say I have AF.....bit I am not sure, I am so glad that the vagus nerve was mentioned, as I believe that that is a big problem that the doc does not want to get into....funny thing, I had a car accident, and that is when I had my first episode, and I read that others have had similar situations....again thanks for the information.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 02/02/2015

to: Hawkmn05. Started having afib attacks more often about 2 mos after stopping the topro l(beta blocker) Felt so much better without it but thought maybe that was why it started up again so went back on very low dose(12.5mgs) only at night. Still take low dose of H.and all the other supplements in a.m. So far, so good! Will let you know! Glad you are doing o.k.

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh, US) on 02/03/2015

Topsy, I Doc does not want to get into it? Hmmm, mine wasn't interested either, so he's the 5th Cardio I've fired. They're not God, and perhaps only have their best interest at heart, pun intended. With this condition and all the variables for triggers and severity, everything is on the table. If it wasn't such a dramatic change in my PVCs, I would possibly have just left feeling better about my neck and shoulder injury. Mind you, my car accident was 25 years ago, and my AF is 5 years. Of course, we never know how we heal as we age. Regards.

Pat, Sorry to hear the beast came back. That is such a small dose I'd be thankful that's working to keep you NSR. Heck, I saw a post the other day by someone ablated that still takes 50 mg Top twice a day! Why get ablated?? Along with that rat poison. 12.5mg for me is like baby aspirin. I was put on 4000mg of C this winter as sickness seems to be a precursor to AF some times. So far no flus and no AF. I'm working with another ND on a hair sample and looking into chelation via suppositories. I'll let you know if my tests show I'm a walking mercury bank. Ciao

Replied By Pat (Pa, US) on 02/03/2015

I am thankful that 12.5mg seems to work but I don't want to get ablated yet, of course! That is heavy duty to me! Scary! I also increased my Vit c to 2000 a day.Maybe I should take more! I do think it helps! As does Mag, Hawthorne, Coq10 Vit E etc.Keep my blood thin with the E. Still take a baby asp 3-4x week. I still want to find an alternative doc. Will have to be my own guinea till then! Things could be worse! I am figuring some of it out, I think! I will have to make an appt with the "arrythmia" doctor soon, though! Haven't been since June! As for you (and me) thank God the "flecc" gets my NSR back! Sometimes just more of the Toprol works for that and I don't have to take any "flec"! Never know! Usually takes 2-3 hrs to get back but I always wait 1-2 before I decide totake the "flec"! Stay well! Keep posting about the chelation, etc!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh, US) on 02/05/2015

Pat, I m with you on feelings about ablations. It seems that there are mixed reviews with it. If it was a simple "one and done" like taking a gall bladder or yanking a tooth out, More would be lining up for them. What gets me is, most still are on rat poison and meds after! I know of one person who had one, got off meds, and no AF since. One doesn't cut it for me. I truly believe that there can be some restoration of cells with supplements after a time. I am quite skeptical of conventional now because of the big money involved with surgeries and meds. In 2 weeks Im off to a holistic dentist to consult about root canal, mercury fillings. No coincidence Afib started after the root canal along with Hypothyroidism. Tho, I have to say, neck adjustment is the best cure so far. Covering all the bases Pat! One other to research is Acetyl L Carnitine. Let me know what you think. Stay NSR.

Replied By Bee (New York, US) on 02/05/2015

Hi Pat and Hwk

I do not have Afib but we were all talking about beta blockers so I had chimed in.. I was taking a beta blocker (M) for high blood pressure and then the doctor told me I had tachycardia which I never had.....Anyway; I took my last pill last Friday and although I have had some horrific side effects I am so happy I am off those things..They gave me nothing but trouble for two years I was on them... It took me a whole year to get off being I have many chemical sensitivities. I am now still on COQ10 and Hawthorn and Magnesium and have increased these until the side effects cease.. I also added L Theanine for nerves because the adrenal rushes from the drug were horrific..as someone suggested from another site. Plus I am meditating also and trying to keep anxiety at bay...

Sorry about your setback Pat ... hope you feel better.. This whole medical jargon confuses me more and more..

Replied By Loraine (Orlando, FL) on 02/05/2015

Guys....had to comment on this post...Only today I was watching an interview where this physician was saying that afib is actually caused by an abnormal spine. According to him if you fix the spine the problem goes away...he also did say that doctors will not tell you this and what they typically do is ablate the heart which leaves you most of the time with permanent damage...they did this to my Mom....wish I had this knowledge then...anyways, hope this helps....take care,

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh, US) on 02/06/2015

Bee, great news good to hear that. Tachy is the precursor to Afib I believe so that should be taken care of.

Loraine , I believe it. It was amazing difference for me, tho I still take the supplements, I've cut back dramatically with Neck adjustment. Isn't it interesting that allopaths tell us AF doesnt always mean a heart issue, but an electrical one, and then suggest surgery and cutting the heart? They are denying that it causes brain bleeds later on and will never list it as "cause of death", very convenient for them, and devious.

Pat, I'm about 2 posts from being kicked off daily strength. I've persuaded quite a few away from Meds and surgery and they are succeeding, but always a battle with one or two brainwashed fools. I don't back down tho...lol

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 02/12/2015

Thanks, Loraine.I have been thinking of going to chiropractor too.Will have to follow through! And to Hwk: I know of 2 people that had success with ablation and right that doesn't make me wanna run in and get it but if my episodes get more frequent, I don't know.They already come once a week and that is bad enough.Although the"flec" gets me back to NSR in about 2hrs. But still interrupts my life and never know when! Usually when I have something I want to do or somewhere I want to go! Trying not to let it stop me! But not a nice feeling! Will keep on looking for alternative treatments since I don't know if traditional medicine knows the answer either! I guess it could be worse! Bee, let me know if the L-teanine helps the anx! Take care, all

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 02/12/2015

Replied By Bee (New York) on 02/12/2015

Hi Pat.

Geezz I know how frustrating trying to find natural cures are.. but there has to be something. yes chiropractor , acupuncture maybe.. I do EFT tapping and that helps somewhat.. I feel sometimes things work and sometimes they don't.. but I am doing this for high blood pressure and detox withdrawel from a drug..

Anyway; yes the L Theanine seems to be helping with anxiety but I am still detoxing from that pharma drug and I too am getting confused. I am not sure of the dosage of the L Theanine but I have 200mgs. tablets and I open up the capsules and put in a bit of water with magnesium and drink.. I have upped it though to more than 200mgs.. I am experimenting right now but not sure how much is safe.. I also do that with Taurine.. seems the powder is more effective than just taking the pill with those coatings on them.. If I were you I would check whatever you take and see what the coatings are made of ..

I want to add more amino acids but not sure which ones.. have you looked into other amino acids..? I am still learning and studying and my body is detoxing.. and trying to find its homeostasis and that is what your body is telling you......its just that we have to find how to do it with I guess all of the different health regimes we can find....

Replied By Timh (KY) on 02/13/2015

Bee: If I may offer a possible cause for your difficulties in detoxing pharmaceuticals. There are many detox pathways within the overall P-450 Phase 1&2. Glucuronidation is the most common path for pharma detox. There may be liver disease causing even other pathways dysfunction, or maybe even heavy metal toxicity. Inadequate protein intake can also weaken detox.

For now, you can purchase Calcium d-Glucarate from Source Naturals and see if you get relief. For best results fallow the CdG w/ d-Limonene (Orange Peel Oil) softgels (which boost the entire 1&2 P-450). Also, never eat grapefruit or drink the juice as it inhibits detox and increases drug levels in the blood.

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 02/13/2015

Pat, It sounds as tho you're reaching a boiling point. AF truly does interrupt our lives. I know a few that were successful, but are still on meds and get as many or more PVCs than before ablations. I imagine most of us would have this done if the results were more definitive. You could get the ablation to at least stop the episodes, then work on natural cures for blood thinning and PVCs. If you ve exhausted all methods and arent getting better, no one could blame you for going that route. Im sure youve done the research and know which ones are successful at it. Just stay away from teaching hospitals and know whos going to be running the show.

I've done breathing exercises and adjusting my neck and shoulders to be rid of PVCs. Found this interesting blog.

I have been suffering ocassional bouts of a-fib since I started taking Altace-now Cozaar. I have also been practicing yoga since 2003. One day I came to class and as you are required if you have any health issues, I told her I was in a-fib. Her response was: "Oh, we'll fix that" She showed me what she called a "heart opening pose" where you sit on the very edge of a high back chair(so your sit bones will come off if you move another inch) and hold your arms as high on the chair as you can, take a deep breath in and as you exhale, you squeeze your shoulder blades together as close as you can. When you first start yoga it may not be that much but as you progress over time, you will eventually be able to touch your shoulder blades together. I demonstrated this to my cardiologist and he explained that it looked like I was forcing my spinal cord closer to the sternum and compressing the pericardium. My a-fib converted in seconds. Sometimes it takes a while longer. You have to find a quite place to sit and do some "yoga breathing" first to prepare yourself(if you make your exhales at least twice the length of your inhales it will slow your heart rate. A yoga breath is "in for 4 seconds-hold for 7-w/your tongue on the roof of your mouth, then exhale for 8 seconds. As you get more experienced you will eventually double, triple or even quadruple the lengths (in for 16, hold for 28, out for 32. Highly experienced yogis can do this for SUBSTANTIALLY longer periods, even going into a state of "hibernation" where they don't appear to breath for several hour. Only those studying yoga froma child can do this. But it works every time.

Replied By Pat (Pa., US) on 02/13/2015

Thanks, Bee.I also remember that when this first started I had been taking care of my grandson 1 day a week.Had always had back trouble for about 25 yrs here and there and possible that I aggravated it more so with all the lifting, etc.of the baby.That is why I think I should follow in"Hwkmn 05" direction and see a chiropractor. It just may be what I need.In the meantime I am taking only 12.5mg toprol a day and only take the other med(flecc) when I go into and "afib"episode if that is really what they are! I kind of believe it has nothing to do with my heart and is probably the vagus nerve causing the afib fro inflammation maybe! Something like that anyway! I feel your disgust at taking meds that give you more side effects than help.They just throw you on things without even making sure that is what your problem is! Never look too hard! Just find a drug that they think will treat the symptoms not the cause! Which is why we are all looking for our own cures! Hope you get some relief from the anxiety. This condition also causes me to have it they say! Guess so when your heart feels like it's racing out of control inside you! That would cause a little anxiety! Sooo, Hope you feel better!

Also forgot to mention that you may look into herbs for anx ( passionflower is one) and "natural" progesterone cream (found at "whole foods") also is very "calming"! May be all that is needed instead of the meds.

Replied By Bee (New York) on 02/14/2015

Hi Tim;

Thank You.. I appreciate the feedback and yes will def. look into the things you mentioned.

not sure what it all means though and no I don't drink grapefruit juice. I basically only stick with water and I eat 99 percent organic and mostly veggies and fish and grains and pasta..I don't eat red meat so maybe I do eat more protein at this time. I do eat beans and that sort of thing.. thinking its enough protein.. the liver thing is strange but I feel as if I have gallstones. I use chanca piedra and drink lemons .. I would like to do a liver cleanse. Thanks again

Replied By Timh (KY) on 02/16/2015

Bee: You are welcome, and I have been wanting to make this suggestion for some time because it's clear from your post that you have had an unusually difficult time w/ the prescription meds.

As for the gallstones, it looks very likely in your case. When I first started having liver problems I got gallstones and got worse, hardly able to continue working. My heart soon got involved and very stressed and had to exercise caution when exerting myself (Magnesium and CoQ10 helped considerably). Fortunately a Chiropractor diagnosed me w/ gallstones using the kinesthesia reflex pressure points method. After my first flush, I immediately felt sooo much better and my heart returned to normal. I think the gallstones obstruct not only bile flow but also blood flow in the liver which causes an afib type imbalance of blood and blood pressure in the heart.

Another suggestion I have been thinking on lately for gallstones is Lecithin. I first started using regular strength Soy Lecithin w/ good results and soon added Choline/Inositol caps to enhance. This combination not only improves fat metabolism and solubility of bile but also improves liver detox similar to Methionine. So, you get a double benefit w/ this combination. The herb Artichoke leaves extract is also quite beneficial (more so than Milk Thistle seed) for improving bile flow.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 02/16/2015

To Hwkmn:I am getting frustrated, you are right! But every time I say I will go have the damn ablation, I find something to start making me feel better again! Then I vow to not get it! Really need to go to the chiropractor! Haven't yet.Went to see a hormone MD that ordered me $3600.00 worth of blood tests that all came back normal. I think.Haven't been back to him yet! Oh well, It is a crazy condition! I will be bouncing back again! Hope you are well! Thanks for listening!

Replied By Bee (New York, US) on 02/16/2015

Hi Pat;

oh; sorry about your troubles but I did find a great doctor who is I think is osteopathic on utube. His name is Peter Glidden.. Please look him up. He believes that Afib is def. caused from the back and spine.. but go to utube and type in Dr. Peter Glidden and check out his videos.. He is really good.. I just found him and he has some great info..

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 02/17/2015

Thank you, Bee for the information on Dr. Glidden.The video was very interesting and informative, I agree! Looks like there might be something to that theory.At least I personally, would not be surprised at all if there was.I have never believed that it is a "heart" problem, per say.Always felt, instinctively, that something else is causing the heart to beat erratically at times.And the fact that they try and put you on beta blockers for BP and antiarrythmic drugs that practically do nothing to help speaks volumes also! They are clueless as Dr.Peter Glidden suggests.I will keep up with him and get to the chiropractor soon.In the meantime I guess I will just keep coming to earthclinic for answers. Thanks!

Replied By Bee (New York, US) on 02/17/2015

Hi Pat;

yeah; I like that guy but he does sell supplements but I do enjoy his points of view .. I would def. seek out a chiro or someone other than a regular M.D.. I am going to try so hard not to go to the doctor anymore... Even the osteopaths I saw at the clinic were not trained well enough and still were into drugs so not sure why Glidden thinks osteopaths are the way to go. I am not even impressed with naturopaths either but at least they might have better solutions to health issues than regular M.D..

I do EFT everyday and some videos go into telling the person to keep digging, searching and finding out the causes of these issues.. try some EFT . it can't hurt. I do it to lower my heart rate when I have anxiety. Have you tried the L theanine. I love that stuff along with magnesium..

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh, US) on 02/17/2015

Pat and Bee, I've watched Glidden for about a year now. I do agree with him on the spine cause, however his treatment of just ice on your C-5 area doesnt go far enough, at least for me. I actually went into afib right after a Chiro visit last March. I only realized some benefit after going to a Kinesiologist, vastly different than a Chiro, IMO. His adjustment and advice to heat the area for 3 days as hot as I could stand it, was the solution, not ice. Now when I feel my neck is out, I heat for 30 min and stretch my neck/shoulder and use a "bodybackbuddy" on some trigger areas. Not to say Ice and Chiro won't work for others, but did not for me.

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 02/18/2015

Hwkmn05 (at) hotmail.com. Email me if you like and I'll share more in detail on my treatment.

Replied By Myway (Delaware, Usa ) on 02/20/2015

Hello All, just wanted to chime in about Afib and the role of magnesium. I can't remember if I had added the following information. Many people in my industry (hint, hint) who have afib are low in magnesium RBCs which many MDs do not check. The necessary value needs to be 6.0 mg/dl or above not the 4.3 - 6.8 mg/dl. Go get your magnesium RBCs checked (not the serum magnesium - this tells you nothing about the condition of your magnesium depletion from your heart. The heart uses 40% of the magnesium that is in your blood stream. When your serum magnesium is low, it pulls the magnesium from the heart hence your magnesium RBC (red blood cell) are low. This occurs often. Google Dr. Carolyn Dean - an ND and MD who has studied this area extensively.

I wish everyone the best.

Replied By Pat (Pa., US) on 02/21/2015

To Myway, Delaware: How do you check your RbcMagnesium? What test is that? Since you say "serum mg" isn't the same? Never heard of it. I hope I get some relief from something soon. Back on the 25 metapropol again since 2 mos after going off everything the afib episodes started coming more frequently(every 3-4 days) as opposed to every 2 weeks or so and I thought that the medicine must be helping afterall so went back on it. Will check out the chiro but I am afraid it may make bring on the afib, too! Taking my time on that one. Wish they had a pill that really worked! No rhyme or reason to this! Very frustrating condition, not being able to control it! Must be something they have done to our environment! Too many cell towers, etc.messing with our electrical systems in the heart! Keep searching for answers but don't know if I will find any! Already taking so many supplements! That is a pain, too! Do they really do anything??

Replied By Rsw (Uniontown, Oh) on 02/22/2015

Hi Pat,

A woman on another site had trouble getting magnesium into her cells and had resorted to daily injections to bring her RBC magnesium levels up. She found that magnesium orotate, in Cardio Mag2, an OTC supplement was able to increase her level higher than any other supplement or injection she had tried. She has her RBC mag checked regularly and says this is the best for this. I do not believe she has AFib, but it might be something to investigate. Best wishes.

Replied By Bee (New York) on 02/22/2015

Pat;

I am so sorry for your troubles but if you had to go back on 25mgs. of (M) its okay.. I don't think 25 is so bad and if you have to do it for now then don't be so hard on yourself.. In the end when all else fails sometimes there is no choice until you find something better.. I don't like drugs or western medicine but these things seem to be stepping stones or bridges to the next best thing.. If all natural things don't work for me I would have to consider western medicine..I am now working on my spiritual side too and seeing what emotional parts play in my health . You might want to check into that also..

Take Care

Replied By Pat (Pa., US) on 02/27/2015

Thanks, Bee. I guess you're right. I am taking a very small dose of Toprol (12.5) and I guess that is what I will do for now! I did try a lot of things but nothing else really worked although I do still try to keep up with the vits and minerals. I will be happy if anything works at this point. I hate having my heart go off suddenly with no warning. It is really an interruption in my life that I don't need! And I do take a spiritual approach to this condition also. I definitely believe everything happens for a reason! Don't know what it is, that's all! I really shouldn't complain about taking a low dose of beta blocker in my life! Many people have much worse things to deal with! Sometimes you just have to get a better perspective on things! Some days are better than others! I just like to have a little more control over things. C'est la vie! Stay well!

Replied By Pat (Pa., US) on 03/02/2015

Just had an appt. with a chiropractor Since my back went out over the weekend! I figured I wanted to try it so this was as good a time as any. And she said that ice was the thing to do for my low back inflammation along with the motrin 600's I told her I had been taking since Saturday. She said that absolutely could be pressure on the vagus nerve that causes the afib.episodes. Not that I don't have it, but I think that something sets it off so that I become symptomatic! Will have to talk to her some more about that later. Just wanted to get the back straightened out for now! Wondering how Hwkmn 05 is making out with his treatments?? Let me know! I also do want to get the L theanine soon and try it. I am definitely less anxious about the afib when I read all these other posts from people with similar problems! Makes it seem not as bad! I am grateful to learn of other ways of dealing with it!

Replied By James (Nh., US) on 03/03/2015

Pat, glad you found your way to the Chiro. Hopefully they provide some relief. My impingement wasn't in my lower back, but neck. I did not use a Chiro however, because they always adjust my neck side to side. The issue is on the inside of my neck/spine vertebrae C1-5, and now I do my own adjustment, Heat for 1 hour, hanging head over the edge of a bed for 30 min. PACs gone for 3 months now. I used to use Ice also. That was ok for low back, but not upper. Keep us posted!

Replied By Mahrie (Bc, Canada) on 03/07/2015

Morning all! I've read all the posts here and would like to join in the discussion, if I may.

CAT (Cardiac Ablation Therapy) has a 23% success rate over 3 years, meaning that in the U.S., Canada, the U.K, and Australia, that's the combined success rate over 3 years. Patients haven't been followed in any kind of a controlled study for longer than that, and if you aren't in the 23%, the side effects can be horrible. Electrocardiology docs are definitely still in the practice stage on this one, folks!

A bit about me. I've been 'sick' all my life. I was born with A-fib, PVCs, PAT, and SVT and a kind of endogenous (not from an outside source) panic disorder that goes back five generations in my family. I have nine kids and all my daughters have it, but only one son. Girls have an 80% chance of inheriting the 'bad' gene. Boys have a marginal chance.

I also have diabetes Type 2 (diagnosed roughly 4 years ago), am legally blind, and require to use a wheelchair. I have Hashimotos (hypothyroid) disease and a number of other medical 'labels' that I'm working on eradicating. I'm heavily steeped in studying molecular biochemistry, and while not practicing at the moment, I'm an ND.

A-fib is simply part of the package of GPD (Generational Panic Disorder) but it's not less real or disturbing because it comes as part of a more comprehensive system failure.

Basically, we all (anyone who has A-fib) produce too many catecholamines and our corresponding neurotransmitters are deficient in either quantity or quality. (Just for extra fun; mine don't work at all.)

We are the first generation (I'm speaking of those around age sixty now) in history to have battled our way through a toxic world since birth, and it is going to be a lifelong struggle, as pollutants and toxins are on the increase, so our arsenal must constantly be readjusted.

Our kids are in for a harder struggle. All babies are now born loaded with toxins from heavy metal toxicity to chemical toxicity and it affect their brains, their IQ, and their general health. Babies born today are quite literally dumber than those born before them when the world wasn't quite so polluted, and we'll never know how intelligent those babies might have been....

BTW, I haven't seen anyone mention Cod liver oil and I wonder why not. In many cases, a teaspoonful of Cod liver oil taken three times daily, has cured all sorts of arrhythmias - including A-fib.

Unfortunately, I need more than that and am in the process of healing my body with nutrients, (micro and macro), good oils, and by detoxifying. It takes a while.

A-fib can be cured; all diseases can. May I recommend an excellent read? It's called Is Your Cardiologist Killing You? by Sherry A. Rodgers, MD, ND.

It'll answer all the questions I've seen posed here, and more, and she herself was terribly ill with not only A-fib, but two dozen 'incurable' diseases. She's 65 now and in perfect health, and she doesn't sell supplements or do anything else that might make one suspicious, which is why I sent away from her book (just Google her) in the first place. I now have seven books that she's written, LOL, but that one will do for starters, I think.

I'm 59, and until May last year I was only taking Alprazolam for GPD, which I've been doing for 30 years - same dose.

I had a close call in May and the ER docs put me on a drip of Metoprolol. I was in A-fib for ten hours at the hospital, but it was brutal, and I gladly (and stupidly) took the Metoprolol they gave me on discharge. Today I'm taking 25 mg twice a day and can't seem to drop it lower just yet.

I had been managing my diabetes with diet and exercise only and my numbers were great. (My AIC hovered around 5.2 - 5.4.) However, the moment I ingested Metoprolol, my BG (blood glucose) numbers doubled literally overnight, which is one of the reasons I desperately want to stop Metoprolol, but for now, I can't seem to manage without it. I'm now, courtesy of Metorprolol, also taking 500 mg Metformin twice a day to help to control my BG, which is still much too high.

Well, hopefully that's enough of an introduction. My husband and I are missionaries and we travel the globe with our books and music (concerts) and donate the bulk of the proceeds to local outreach programs.

Have a spectacular day, and God bless! Mahrie.

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh, US) on 03/07/2015

Marhie, welcome and wow. That is quite a post. I will definitely check out that book, because I do know the answer to that question, mine tried to do his best to. Unfortunately, they don't improve from one to the next and the younger they are the more meds they prescribe. As Glidden says, fire your MD. I canceled my EP appt last Oct to the surprise of my Cardio. I'm not sure why he was surprised, I canceled his super script of 200mg per day of Flec last July. After seeing this post, I wont be rescheduling.

This seems rather low and I'm wondering why we hear of 80-90% success rates for those not in persistent AF? You wrote "CAT (Cardiac Ablation Therapy) has a 23% success rate over 3 years." There must be some ambiguity associated with these figures.

Thanks for the info and stick around to enlighten us with more good reports. James

Replied By Timh (KY) on 03/08/2015

M: Thanks for your testimony. For good, scientifically validated remedies check out Jon Barron's "Baseline Of Health" website and his free e-book Lessons From The Miracle Doctors.

When you confessed to being a missionary and traveling around the globe the first flag flying in my mind is exposure to parasites and pathogens which you seem to have neglected to mention in combination w/ the common environmental toxins. Hulda Clark made the critical link to cancer and many other diseases including diabetes as parasites conspire w/ environmental toxins for habitat and survival (which renders the immune & detox unable to remove them). I will never travel abroad without using a Zapper very often.

Let us know if you make any progress.

Replied By Mahrie (Bc, Canada) on 03/08/2015

Thanks you for the welcome, Hwkmn!

I don't know why we hear of high success rates - other than to follow the money tree. (Are you aware that the FDA (not that I'm holding up the FDA as having our best interests at heart) has NOT APPROVED CARDIAC ABLATION THERAPY? That's right; it hasn't.) Scores of independent studies certainly don't bear them out. Most patients who choose CAT, if they don't die, always end up on warfarin (for life) and all the anti-arrhythmia drugs that they underwent the operation to avoid. Often one ablation isn't enough and as many as three, with all the inherent risks of the first op, are performed, and they still don't CURE the arrhythmia(s).

My last cardiologist told me that they have a 100% success rate curing 'certain arrhythmias, ' but he declined to mention which ones, which isn't surprising, because I've searched high and low and can't find one study to validate that assertion. As far as the 23% CURE rate I quoted, I'm sure there is some ambiguity inherent in these stats, as there is in all combined study/control groups, but from my personal observation, I don't think they're far off the mark. If I thought that my own chance of CURING (not merely treating) A-fib and SVT via CAT was anywhere near 90%, I'd have had the operation already.

I'm looking forward to discussing this and more with you as time permits, and God is willing.

Blessings, Mahrie.

Replied By Hwkmn05 (NH, US) on 03/09/2015

Marhie, Yes I know of 3 ablated over 3 years. One on zero meds, one still on most everything and one still going into Afib. Not a great success rate.

FDA has approved ablations. (http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm109073.htm)

However this may be the confusion, they don't agree that it will free patients from meds or prevent stroke! " While atrial fibrillation is a major risk factor related to stroke, there is no conclusive evidence that links the treatment of symptoms by ablation to a reduction in stroke. Therefore, the FDA agrees with the American College of Cardiology, the American Heart Association and the European Society of Cardiology, which recommend that patients at risk for stroke continue to take blood-thinning medications after ablation procedures for atrial fibrillation."

The other allopathic sites are all excited with the ablation frenzy this spring. However, they seem to have the most long term complaints with PAC and PVCs along with AF and meds. I would like to wish them all well, but if I'm being honest, the road ahead for them isn't really paved much smoother.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 03/09/2015

Thank you to Mahrie Bc Canada for that enlightening information! Sounds like you have been through quite a bit! I have often thought that it possibly could e from some sort of glitch in the nervous system somewhere and that theory seems to be what you have investigated also! Unfortunately it doesn't sound like there is noanswer or a fix for this! I will read the book you suggested and maybe will find some answers there??? But sure am glad I haven't rushed into Ablation yet even though my frustration level gets so bad I feel vulnerable enough to do it sometimes! The "afib" is such an unexpected interruption in my life! Hence the frustration! And it lasts for hours on end no matter what meds I take! (or supplements).How do you cope with yours and how often do you have the episodes of afib? Mine are at least once a week now! Started 2 yrs ago as about once a month or 3 weeks! Why do they tell us that the ablation is 88-90% success rate they think?Are they really lying to us all? I don't know!

If it is part of the package, as you say, of "generalized panic disorder, wouldn't some antidepressant of some sort help with this? I have also wondered whether to try that also! Haven't tried it, though. But I would if it may help alittle.My daughter, also has SVT (another arrythmia) and she said that once they put her on Paxil for something else(another chronic condition that she has) and that her SVT did stop for at least 3-4 months.But she went off it because she was afraid to stay on it and she gained 40 lbs.which was also unacceptable!

I also come from a family history full of anxiety and panic disorders! I wonder if that is a clue to all of this. But wouldn't anxiety/panic disorder meds help if this is the case? Even if I could get the episodes to be less frequent it would be a help! I am at my wits end with this! It is on my mind 24/7! That also doesn't help, I know! But it's how I'm "wired" I guess! The only way the M.D. can lessen the episodes or get rid of, they say is ablation, since the meds(just take metapropol low dose and take fleccanide when I get an episode with more metapropol)don't seem to help me much at all!

Like to hear your input! Thanks!

Stay well!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 03/09/2015

Pat, I hope you can get some relief soon, good grief, thats too much. I have the book coming in Wed. I enjoy most alternative med books. I bought one on triggers for all conditions and then I got the BackBodybuddy to work on different muscle groups. It works great.

Yeah, if the ablations were that successful, we'd all be lining up for them. Of course they had to admit finally after lying to us for years that ablation basically is worthless for Persistent AF patients.

Replied By Mahrie (Bc Canada) on 03/10/2015

Tim, thank you for the recommendation; I'll check him out.

I'm well familiar with Hulda Clark, and DH and I don't go anywhere without our Zapper.

We use her parasite program too and find it highly effective. :)

Hwkm, as far as I have read (and I do try to keep current) the FDA has approved cardiac ablation ONLY for visible leakage of blood during cardiac surgery, which is really just cauterization, but since docs are purposely necrotizing (killing) part of the heart muscle, it's categorized as ablation.

What ticks me off about Metoprolol and other anti-arrhythmia drugs, is that people on them (like me) have a 2.5 times higher risk of sudden heart attack or stroke than those with A-fib who aren't medicated. If the docs in the ER had told me that, or that Metoprolol was addictive, I'd have told them where to put it and walked out of the ER once I was in NSR again.

Even on 25 mg twice a day, I'm still getting PVCs and am tired all the time. I also find that I'm not as sharp mentally as I'm accustomed to being for up to four hours after ingesting each dose, and that doesn't sit at all well with me.

Pat, I'm sorry to hear about your daughter. It's no fun when your kids are sick, is it? All three of my daughters have chronic GPD and all of its attendant complications. I've already buried one child, so I know how helpless one can feel when there's nothing to do but hold their hand.

About panic disorder in general, most people aren't chronic and do better without meds because their panic attacks only last for a few minutes to half an hour at a time. Chronic GPD (or even 'regular' PD) is a state one lives with - or in, and full-blown panic attacks are superimposed on the ever-present usual symptoms.

Meds, such as Alprazolam, in sufficiently high doses, do help to mitigate the severity of the disorder, for which I thank GOD! I've been taking 6 mg of Alprazolam daily for circa 30 years, but it does nothing for A-fib or other arrhythimas.

We do know how to cure GPD (and PD), but unfortunately it involves removing a part of the brain that leaves the patient highly aggressive, which progresses to sociopathy in short order. We've performed the procedure on chimps but it'll never be tried on humans. The last thing the world needs is more sociopaths!

The sad part about having GPD (which sounds rather likely if so many in your family have it) is that no matter what we 'cure' with any therapy, in terms of A-fib and other arrhythmias, GPD will still aggravate the heart and create superficial arrhythmias anyway.

You see, GPD and PD symptoms are caused by too many catecholamines being manufactured in the brain, creating a vicious CNS disorder, but the heart manufactures its own cathecholamines, resulting in the kind arrhythmias most folks here appear to have.

Alprazolam, especially at a therapeutic dose, has significant side effects, but I'd have been dead long ago (from sheer exhaustion) if I were not taking it. In this case, as with most medical conditions nowadays, it's a case of pick-your-poison.

Of course, I'm a huge proponent of healing oneself naturally, but that takes time and money, and not many of us have both. Still, it's common sense to do the best we can with what we can afford. At worst, it'll improve the quality of our lives, and at best, it'll extend the quantity of time we have left - which could be a long time, and we should all hope for that and live as if it were true.

Doctors don't know everything, but no one lives forever on Earth. (I believe the 'forever' part comes later.) :)

Hope that answers your questions.

Love to all, and All Good Things, Mahrie.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 03/10/2015

Thanks, HawkMn 05! I really am having lots of frustration over how often it comes now, hence the thoughts of ablation! Which I have talked myself out of again thanks to all the info on this lately! You want to believe but obviously really can't believe the docs! They make it sound so good! When you are desperate you will try most anything! But I know that and that is why I am holding off! Even my husband thinks I should get it! But I am not there yet since I don't even know that it has as much to do with the "heart" as they think! Could be triggered from something else! For now that is how I see it! "Mahrie has some interesting points too! I really hve never believed it is a problem with my heart! The docs in the E.R. after looking at my "echo" said "I have the heart of a 20 year old"! But "in afib"! Will I still have no problems with my heart after they get done with me??*(ablation?) I doubt it! Next they will tell me I need a pacemaker! And the heart was fine before! Just not sure that it is risk free! Anyway, Thanks for you good thoughts and support! That goes unsaid always! And keep posting and talking me out of it!!! See ya!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh, US) on 03/11/2015

Marhie, thanks again for the good info. Of course doctors wont warn us, thats how they make their living!!! Youre not the first to tell us how difficult it is to get off Metop, Bee and Pat have been trying for months with little success.

Right now there is an ablation frenzy out there. My take on this is, ablation is like taking a bulb out of a light with the switch still sending a current to the empty socket. Still why many have PVCs and issues after.

Me, I was on Metop for 3 years, however my adherence was less than stellar. I took only at night, 12.5 to 25mg and not every night. Had PVCs forever, didnt keep me in NSR, and even taking 200mg, did not convert me. I had a slow, irregular HR. Went to Class 1 med, Flecainide. I guess it kept me NSR, but wow, side effects were unbearable. So I tossed all the meds, still had PVCs, still went into AF 4 times in 6 mos, but this time, self converted for first time ever with supplements. Came to the conclusion that meds were not only dangerous, but basically only a mask barely alleviating symptoms.

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh, US) on 03/11/2015

Pat, I bet hubby is thinking you've reached that point where that is most likely all that's left to do. I can't blame him. Funny that I had the worst year ever last year in 5 years, and now, tho cautiously, I believe I'm having my best year. Time will tell. There are just too many on here that have beat this condition with other methods, gut issues, removing fillings, root canals, thyroid treament etc. Finding yours has been a challenge. No doubt mine is partially spine issue, but next to go is my root canal which I believe may be impacting my Thyroid. We all get into that catch 22 where we cant treat liberally if we are on meds with the threat of contraindications. It has to be a transition with patience and common sense. I have to believe there is someone out there who can fix you besides an allopath.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 03/11/2015

You're right about my husband. He thinks like the docs! Just go have the ablation and you will be all better! Not always the case! I've been thinking that it can't get any less frequent again but you say last yr was a bad one and this yr not so bad.That is good! We will see how long I can tolerate this! It is wearing me down! Running out of steam from having it so often. Can't say"no" forever if it stays like this! That is the reality of the situ! Oh well, it is a battle! And you know what? I'm gonna win! I'll persevere! You know, I know so many people that have had much worse surgeries than the A. and much worse medical issues .In the big picture, I should be able to get through this! Will let you know! God bless us all!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (NH, US) on 03/12/2015

Pat, get the book and make sure hubby reads it. Some areas were redundant for me, but the chapter on arrhythmias was an eye opener. I would seriously consider Mag Chol 200 IV if I were you. Possibly get a Mag RCB test first. I may get some and have ND inject myself. Author is suggesting 1200mg per day, which is a load to take, but it makes sense. Ablation was not high on her list, last resort with low success. No surprise that most of my episodes came shortly after taking or quitting meds. She explains the reason for that. Good read for all heart issues.

Replied By Pat (Pa., US) on 03/12/2015

Hawk: Is the book called "is you cardiologist killing you"The one that "Maahrie" suggested? I will try to read it. It sounds like an awful lot of Mag. But who would give you a "mag IV"? Problem around my area is there aren't many, if any, ND's close by! I still haven't found one! Still just experimenting with different supplements on my own! And this whole thing is breaking the bank! I wouldn't mind if anything worked, but wasting a lot on things that don't! Gets crazy after awhile!

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 03/12/2015

To Mahrie: Thanks for the info.Sorry to hear about the loss of your child! Nothing can be harder! You have dealt with much stress in your life, it sounds! Amazing what we can withstand when we have to, isn't it? But health issues do pop up eventually as we get older and life has been, let's say, "very full" of different stresses along the way! Guess that is how we're programmed! Guess I will just have to stay on the meds (metapropol daily and fleccanide, when I have breakthrough of Afib) and hope I can get some relief! I do have ativan (low dose 0.5) for the anxiety from the meds when I need it! Of course it stinks that I can't drink any alcohol at all or I will go into afib and never was a big drinker but enjoyed my glass of wine now and then and would REALLY enjoy one occasionally now that I have this! How ironic! Of all the times in your life when you could use a drink and you can't have one! Don't get the connection there with the afib! Even my doctor told me I should be able to have a glass of wine.But I told her I can't. I immediately, after I swallow a gulp, feel a palp start and will go into it if I keep drinking it. Have to throw it away! I will try to read the book and see what is up in it! Thanks!

Replied By Mahrie (Bc, Canada) on 03/12/2015

Evening Pat (et all)!

I hear you! Right about now (I've had a particularly challenging week), I could use a bottle of GLENLIVET - and a straw! However, not being suicidal, I'll pass on that and just keep on keeping on - for as long as I'm spared.

The annoying thing about cardiac issues, as opposed to cancer and other degenerative diseases is that you can't ignore it or just say to **** (the hot place) with it - even for a while - as one can feel every beat, and that can be (and is) exhausting.

Hang in there, kiddo. I wouldn't (and won't) go the ablation route myself. ALL our current data says you won't live longer and you'll likely end up back on meds anyway, and STILL have A-fib, if not immediately, and then there's the rat poison factor.... It seems to me, at least at this juncture, that the best path to take is becoming familiar enough with molecular biochemistry to avail yourself of a natural CURE, which many have accomplished, and their stats are MUCH more impressive than any strategy that requires an unnatural intervention. Killing part of your heart is not the answer - in my humble opinion.

If I were you, at this stage of the game, I'd ask your doc for a therapeutic dose of Alprazolam - and build it up to 6 mg (or thereabouts), which won't cure A-fib, but it'll help with your anxiety level, which will, in turn, decrease the amount of adrenalin, epinephrine, and other stimulants coursing through your veins, which in turn will lead to fewer A-fib incidents. Then (God Willing) you should have the time and energy to focus on nutritional healing - healing, not stop-gap measures.

LOTS of love and All Good Things, Mahrie.

Replied By Pat (Pa, US) on 03/13/2015

I think it probably does help lessen the frequency of the breakthrough episodes of afib if the anxiety is at a minimum.But I take the lorazepam if I feel too anxious.Of course, I don't like taking anything which is why I am looking for alternative treatments for the afib.So I probably don't take enough lorazepam to calm down a mouse! Hate putting anything foreign into my body! I think I will try some more to see if a "calmer" me helps at all! But do you think xanax works better for some reason than lorazepan?I thought they were sort of the same thing. And I really do need to calm down about taking a few meds! But that is just me! Thanks for the advice! And getting afib hasn't helped my anxiety levels at all! Blessings!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (NH, US) on 03/16/2015

Marhie, good advice, on the single malt that is, and not too bad on the lesser issue, AF.

Pat, HwkWmn brought home a nice Malbec Friday. I havent partaken too often, but it's been a long cold winter! ND told me to load up on Mag and Alpho lipic acid before I have a glass of red. Seemed to work with no issues. Hope you can toast again soon!

Replied By Bee (New York, US) on 03/16/2015

Hi Hawk, May I ask your a question please? when you say load up on ALA how much is that? I am taking 300 mgs. per day... I also do the magnesium at about 900mgs. per day.. thanks

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 03/17/2015

Bee, where have you been!!? The daily dosage of ALA is 300mg, so I increase to 2-3 caps a couple of hours before a drink.

Also, for you Java junky Afibbers who have been told to give up your favorite beverage, I mix 1 tbls of coconut oil with 12oz of coffee in my bullet. It neutralizes the cortisol and you won't get the palps or jitters from it. It works and I love the flavor. Cheers.

Replied By Bee (New York) on 03/17/2015

I am here Hwk.

Thank you...............well I don't drink now because I thought yes it brought on shakes and all from too much sugar or when I drank I didn't feel well at all... Maybe I will try more ALA and have some wine.......That would be nice... Thank you

Replied By Pat (Pa, US) on 03/19/2015

Well, sorry to say I had another bad visit with the M.D. this week.She and the nurse told me that they don't know what I want them to do for me because I am not very compliant and they can't have me "playing" with the medicine the way I do! I only told them that I stop because I don't feel well or can't take as much as they say for that reason! Anyway, seems like they think I should have the nasty ablation which I wouldn't be so opposed to if it "worked" for everybody but it doesn't! They said since I went off the meds and started getting more "afib" that I need to have an "echo" to make sure the heart hasn't changed? They also told me to take fflecainide 2x a day with the metapropolol and I am dizzy from all that stuff already! Gonna call soon and tell them! They don't want to hear from me! Sorry! But I can't help it! So frustrating! Somebody help please!!! Don't know which way to turn! Maybe another opinion???Yet a new doctor???

Replied By Pat (Pa., US) on 03/19/2015

You know, Mahrie These issues and feeling every beat as you said are really annoying! And, Hawk, Mn, I am going to start to have a wine now and then since they put me back on the meds and see if they help! I am going to get another opinion soon with another group of cardiac docs because my friend said that she doesn't think they should talk to me the way they are. So I think I will try another person just to see if he can be a little more "calming" for me. Sometimes a change of personality! But I know they are going to push the ablation too, probably! Do they do this with everyone else? Or is it just me? Thanks for your input! I will appreciate it!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (NH, US) on 03/21/2015

Pat, I don't blame you. Too funny, last year with my first AF of the year, I opened a nice Cab up and poured a large glass for myself. Wife said, what are you doing??? I said, screw it, I haven't had a drink in 10 months and went into Fib, I'm having a drink!!

From the book, Is your Cardio, Dr suggests the
"ACEs" regimen of Vitamins. Beta, C, and a good E with selenium. I took a large good C all winter and Im wondering if that had something to do with controlling inflammation in arteries or heart tissue keep me NSR? Trouble with me is I take so many things, I'm not sure what worked and what didn't!!!

Pat, I'd give the ablation a try for a couple of reasons. You've given it quite a long time to beat this, and it seems as tho you're at a standstill. Yes, it may destroy tissue, but if you get a good EP, hopefully you're one and done. We don't have a whole lot of good, not time, but good time left really, 15/25 years , give or take 10? That's no way to live. It's a trade off and as many that speak negatively, there are just as many that would do it again. IMO.

Replied By Rosie (Australia) on 03/21/2015

Most important nutrients are magnesium, low dose calcium, potassium and CoQ10. Try the magnesium orotate form rather than other forms of magnesium.

Replied By Pat (Pa, US) on 03/22/2015

Thanks for the support Hwk mn! And I do take magnesium to whoever posted. Along with every other freakin supplement there is out there to consume! I am so tired! Right now I will give the "flec a try again and see what happens. But may have to give the "slash and burn" treatment a try eventually because I can't go on like this! You are right, Hwkmn! I am 62 yrs old and I am trying to have a life here! No time for this crap! I have a family and grandchildren I want to enjoy in these years! The "golden" years, right? And I am very healthy otherwise! Have always been! So I guess I will see what happens! You guys are the best! My earth clinic friends and family! Hang in there with me!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh, US) on 03/23/2015

Pat, and of course you can always take supplements after ablation. Most that go that route think they can live the way they used to before surgery. If you've always been healthy, you'll most likely be able to deal with this. At least you can say it wasn't a first line treatment, and a last resort. No shame in getting your life back!

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 06/19/2015

Haven't posted for a few months.Just checking in to say that I had to go back to traditional meds in March since stopping it all before that and trying to use just the supplements.Am back to weaning at least the fleccanide (taking 50mg 2xday) a little. Still taking vitamins and minerals.Maybe not as much since going on meds. I also decided to find an alternative doctor and after telling him about being diagnose in 2yrs ago with afib and telling him that I believe it had something to do with hormone loss since I had just turned 60 and had no other health problems, he put me on some natural hormone cream("BHT") Not the synthetic hormones that the big pharmaceuticals make but natural bio-identicals and so far so good.The doctor says not only may it lessen my episodes but it may make it go away completely! I'm not going to hang on that though! I'll be happy if it just helps lessen! I did alot of research and reading on these and they are relatively safe and actually can keep your body healthy and free from disease unlike the others. So will post later when I see what happens. Hope Hawkmn05 and Bee are doing well!

Replied By William (Canada) on 06/19/2015

My heart arrhythmia disappeared, never to return, when I stopped eating cooked carbohydrates.

These are known to be inflammatory. I was already eating mostly raw paleo.

Hope this helps.

Replied By James (Nh) on 06/21/2015

Pat, that's encouraging. That is why this condition is so frustrating, there are diverse causes and cures. I hope that works for you. One other site I visit is into the ablation frenzy, one a week it seems. Very few success stories, some with 3 or more, still in AF, and yes, still on meds. That is always the biggest fear and concern, that the knife fails to cure this.

I'm now nearly 7 months from last episode and nearly a year in august to 1 in a year. Still no meds, not even an aspirin or advil. 2 most beneficial supplements for myself are Magnesium Glycinate/malate and Vit C, 1667mg twice daily. I believe the C is helping with inflammation which may aggravate the Vagus. I have had very few PACs, maybe 2-3 per week, where it used to be 25 per day. I get all my mercury removed in one month and then the root canal comes out. No coincidence that I had the canal done in 2008 and thyroid issue in 2009, Afib in 2010. Anyway, its coming out and hopefully that helps.

William, that's interesting. I eat nothing raw now, not even a salad. All veggies are cooked slightly. Case in point, get your biggest frying pan, over fill it with Greens and cook it down. You will end up with less than a fistful of greens. Humans can't possibly eat the amount of raw veggies that cows with 4 stomachs can in order to get enough minerals and nutrition. No gluten either, which I believe has been a huge help in digestion and weight loss.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 06/24/2015

Did you say you are off all meds and what made you decide to go off them? Also, I think the magnesium and vit c work for me too! But I am still taking 1 flecannide(50mg) a day and 1(25mg )toprol a day Take flec in a.m. and toprol in p.m.since the last time I stopped all the meds it only lasted about 2 months before the afib came back with a vengeance! Was getting it every 2 days! So I went to cardio doctor and she said flec2x day and 25 mg beta blocker. I still think it is some kind of digestive problem since the less I eat the better I am! Originally it only came on after eating and no one could tell me why! Very crazy condition! Seems nobody has many answers! So hope it keeps going away like yours did! I know that the body can heal itself! Just takes time! Will keep trying!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 06/26/2015

Pat, IMO, Meds are the bridge to the big $$, ablation. I got off them because I didnt want to be dependent on anything that wasnt a cure. Sure, drugs work and do what they are supposed to do, alleviate symptoms. Flec is a serious med, such that we need to pass a stress test to take a standing dose. I do keep on hand for a quick return to NSR, but have only used once in a year. I stopped the standing dose a year ago June. Metoprolol never did much for me either. Went into Afib more on that than doing nothing. Of course we all have to find what works best for us and how much to take. On rough days or nights which are rare, with PACs, I will take multiple doses of Mag, Taurine, Hawthorne, DHA, and C. with success. The trick is to catch it before the beast takes over. Once Im in AF, its work to get out.

Yes, digestive system could be the issue due to your vagus nerve. How to fix that could be a challenge. Mine was more in my spine, neck area. Im also taking Iodine for Hypo. Next to go is all Amalgam in my head and root canal is coming out. No coincidence that I had a root canal one year, next year a thyroid issue, followed by afib. With this condition, everything is on the table. I would really look into treating your vagus nerve. Check this out. "So how does the vagus nerve get irritated in the first place? Any kind of GI distress can put pressure on the nerve and irritate it, with a hiatal hernia being a frequent culprit. Poor posture along with muscular imbalances can also cause the vagus nerve to misfire, as can excess alcohol or spicy foods.

Stress can inflame the nerve, along with fatigue and anxiety

http://drsircus.com/medicine/function-vagus-nerve

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 06/28/2015

I have thought about the vagus nerve and digestive connection to this from the start since it often came right after eating.Have read about it but it doesn't sound very promising that if that is the culprit, there is anything much to stop it! Regular acupuncture? I don't know how long I would keep that up! Did try it once for about 5-6 sessions.Still got afib.So I stopped It can get very expensive! And you are never sure whether or not what you're trying is helping or not! Well for now I will just take a "maintenance" dose (50) mg flecanide once in the a.m. and make sure my HR is down with the Toprol (25) at night. See how it goes. Don't think I will take flec 2X day anymore since it probably isn't doing alot! Once is enough! Also increasing the Mag and VitC! Can't hurt! May try some more acupuncture in a while when I think I can spend the $$ Right now I am paying out of pocket for the alternative M.D. and that is enough! He prescribed the hormone cream at night. I guess it helps. At least I feel pretty good so it can't be hurting! Stomach always gets inflamed right before I go into it too I think! Keep on hunting for whatever will help this"beast" as you refer to it! I like that! Because it is! Maybe we just "feel" too much!!! No cure for that! Later!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 08/26/2015

Pat, I have to believe that Vit C and Mag are the 2 most absolutes for controlling AF.

At least for my situation, no PACs since Dec, so I stopped both for 1 week, and wham, flutter was back strong. No issues since I tried that in May. ND put me back on iodine, ALA, and adk to get thyroid under control. He told me that everyone in this country is seriously lacking Iodine and D, even in sunny areas. I have complained about a root canal as the culprit to no avail. It doesnt bother me or have pain, but it wasnt long after I had this done that Afib started. I say everything is on the table and question why my thyroid all of a sudden was impacted. I believe that is why the C is working, removing "garbage" from my system. I really do need that tooth however, so maybe building up my immune system to deal with the bacterium it produces. I don't know how anyone tolerates Flec. Thats one serious med. I'd be supplementing up seriously on that one especially muscle hydration.

Replied By Teresa (Washington) on 09/30/2015

Hi there, I have been reading all these posts about atrial fibrillation and was wondering what name brands you all use?

Is mag with taurine the best? I had a supplement called Heart Calm, got if off Amazon. Then I have tried different types of magnesium but getting confused. I tried the drink Calm, I tried ionic where you put in water, tastes icky!! I tried another that I take a tablespoon of, (can't remember the name brand).

So what is the best magnesium for afib.

What about Hawthorne? What name brand and how much?

Same for Taurine and Arginine and Co Q10

Thank you so much, oh and if anybody weaned them selves off Metoprolol and or Flecanide please share what worked for you.

Thanks, Teresa

Replied By Om (Hope Bc Canada) on 10/02/2015

Hello, Theresa, (Washington) ---

Hawthorn by VOGEL in Switzerland is quality. It works well. Instructions on label. There are other products, cheaper but watered down!

Magnesium info. On Dr. Sircus' website. I use mag. chlor. from the Dead Sea. It takes extensive reading and you can then use what resonates with you. Co Qu10 has to be with Ubiquinol. Do read online.

Namaste, Om

Replied By Bee (New York) on 10/02/2015

Hi Theresa;

I use an online company called Pure Formulas because they don't put a lot of fillers in their vitamins and supplements. I get my taurine from them and L carnitine (for heart too)... and COQ10.

I use the Magnesium citrate which can be found in most any health food store.. Its the powder you mix with water...

When I run out though sometimes I use COQ10 from Doctors Best company...

If you would like check out Dr.Frank Sinatra on utube or on the web.. He is a alternative cardiologist and has great protocols for heart stuff. He does sell supplements but I don't use them as they are pricey and yes they have fillers.

Good luck

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 10/02/2015

To Teresa: I did wean off of flec and metapropolol but the afib came back more frequently after a while of being off(maybe 1 month or less) so... I told the m.d. when I called that I went off and they said to start up again, so I did.It helped a little but it doesn't help it go away for alot longer.The longest period that it stays away has been about 1 month. I still take all the supplements that I want to take but with the meds too. I am now trying it this way. Don't want t start with ablation yet as I don't think it is much more successful than the meds and I seem to tolerate these pretty well as far as I can tell! Don't want to open up another can of worms! How often do you get it and are you able to make it stop when you do? If I take more flec it usually stops in 3-4 hrs.But my day/night is still ruined! Wish I could stop it in like 1 hr! Good luck with the weaning!

Replied By Bee (New York) on 10/02/2015

To Theresa again... I am sorry in that the company I mentioned I had the wrong name. They are called Pure Encapsulations and they can be found online..

Replied By James (Nh) on 10/03/2015

Pat, Bee, and Theresa, good to see you all here alive and well. Sorry to hear that the beast is not cooperating to your regimens.

Theresa, I weaned off Flec and Metop over 16 mos ago and dont miss them. I went out of NSR more on the meds than off. I think Calm is decent but agree that the taste is a bit tough to take daily. I think Mag Glycinate is the best for us affibers. Easy on the stomach. I would look to Jarrow for most supps like Hawthorne, COQ. Some days I take 800mg of Mag and 2000mg of Haw. Also started Niacin 500mg twice, increasing to 1000mg twice soon. For me, the vagus nerve impingement may have been cause for AF. Adjust neck daily for relief. Regards

Bee, I like the Pure also. One thing with Sinatra I dont like, he thinks that ablation is inevitable. Wrong.

Pat, ah dangit all! I'm stumped with you. Check out Dr Wolfson from Phoenix, the Paleo Cardiologist. Claims we're all poisoned and chemicals are to blame for AF. Good book and he claims to cure it. My natural Dentist went to see him and was impressed. Not sure if hes cured, but says its controlled.

As for ablation, check this out from my good friend on his blog to me. I hate seeing this, because he did beat the AF, but wow, this is scary.

"My ectopy has gotten even worse since my six month update. I'll be writing an updated post soon. I'm having about 4 PVCs per MINUTE and a couple PACs as well. The doctors aren't worried about it though because they said it doesn't become an issue until you get to around 20,000 PVCs per day. Even at 4 per minute I'm "only" having about 5,760 per day. Of course that assumes I'm having 4 every minute. I could be having more or less each minute but either way I'm well under the 20,000 threshold,

What really sucks is my PVCs are really noticeable so it's almost as bad as having afib.

EC: H

Replied By Bee (New York) on 10/03/2015

Hi James.. good to see you also....and Pat too.

I didn't know Sinatra was for Afib. wow.. but he is good for some things and not good for others. I enjoy his videos on grounding..and which he calls the awesome foursome, COQ10, L Carnitine, D Ribose, Magnesium... I only do 800 mgs. of the magnesium citrate a day... I also use the magnesium spray oil .. you can find that in vitamin shoppe ...

I found this new Naturopathic doctor on utube named Dr. Robert Morsend.. Maybe he has some new info. on afib.. He has a ton of videos on many issues .. He also sells herbs and things that aren't too pricey... I am sorry James but I don't like Jarrow all that much for things but funny I do take their cordyceps herb ...

Anyway; I did forgot to add that I was taking Metropolol for high blood pressure and I weaned off but it took me a year and It was a nightmare (sorry).. I did it very very slowly .. the story is very long but my last dose was last April 2015 so be careful weaning off of that.. I am very drug resistant and allergic to drugs especially the (M) . so wean off slow and safe and under the instructions of a doctor.. I belong to a group where people give their testimonies on weaning off and t heir experiences online. I just don't know if I can mention it here. I also drank lemons and did all kinds of gall bladder and liver cleansing to get the meds out of my cells..Now I t hink the drug might have done damage but it could also be my high blood pressure ;uh!!!! Working on it all ...................anyway; also I do binaural beats, EFT and anything else I can to stay away from conventional medicine..

Yes nice seeing you Pat and James..

Replied By Juby (Kc Missouri) on 10/03/2015

Taking taurine capsules worked for me. 1000 a day.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 10/04/2015

Yes, I'm still fighting" the beast" as you refer to it! NAnd more confused than ever now! Flec 50mg 2x day and Toprol 25 mg 1x. Not what I really want to take but I went to an alternative M.D. and he thought he may be able to either lesson or get rid of the afib with me going on BHRT cream.So... I did and it did help me with alot of things but not sure whether it is that or the flec working on the afib now, And I don't want to try to go off anymore things right now! He also got my Vit D level up by telling me to take 5000 units a day That could also be helping keep things at bay! Have to wait it out a little longer.Only been about 4 months. Too soon! Alot of tweaking with all this! And I am still taking the Mag, VitC, Fish oil and a few other supplements. I also fell and broke my ankle in late July and have been dealing with that too! But thank God, no surgery neede.Just 6-8 weeks in boot to immobilize. Just in a shorter and more comfortable ankle brace now! Still hurts, though! Good days, bad days, I guess! Not long enough for that yet either! I am glad things seem to be going good for everyone else! And James, does that mean you still get the afib or no? And how often, if you do? How long does yours last? Good to hear from everyone again! You all made my weekend!

Replied By Earth Clinic (USA) on 10/04/2015

Dear all participating in this thread,

We've just moved this long and wonderful thread to a new page in the atrial fib section. Please note that according to our programmer, you will still be notified by when someone replies to the thread. However, if for some reason you are not getting notifications, the new url for your thread is:

www.earthclinic.com/home-remedies-for-atrial-fibrillation.html

You will be able to find/access this new sub-page on the Atrial Fib section under the table of contents title "Atrial Fib Remedies". It will no longer be called "Yogurt".

[Update: Now that we have moved all the posts over to the new page, the link on the table of contents is not working at the moment but we'll have the programmer fix it within the next few days.]

Replied By Robert Henry (Ten Mile, Tn) on 10/04/2015

HI U PAT, , , , , , , , , , , , alternative doctors are now learning to take 25,000 IU's of Vitamin D 3 until your blood level gets to 70 to 100, and then back off a tad. But get there first and don't take a lifetime to do that.

Look into Cayenne to keep your blood thin. You can't take enough magnesium least your bowels cause you problems, so spray down daily with MgCl and get your magnesium transdermally.

You on the right trail, just keep reading and test your blood frequently to know what to do. I am treating my cancer on my own and test my DNA monthly to make sure I'm addressing my problem. It's spooky being on your own, but I don't like the 3% cure rate of Allopathic doctors.

Wish you well ======ORH=======

Replied By KT (Usa) on 10/05/2015

I want to report that by the process of elimination there is no doubt "citrate" is what caused my PVC. I found out that citrate and citric acid are probably processed from corn because it is cheaper. Corn is just one of the vegetables has been genetically modified. Through any extraction or manufacturing process, a hidden form of MSG is produced.

PVC was first diagnosed when undergoing a colonoscopy. Liquid mag citrate is used to prep for the procedure. It was diagnosed during a second procedure years later. I had been informed about the citrate by Jack Samuels, truthinlabeling.org.

I later received a tape by Russell Blaylock, MD that magnesium citrate was better because it is more readily absorbed so I stopped taking mag tabs and purchased mag citrate tabs. I did not recall the information about what had happened to me when I took the mag citrate liquid for the prep.

After taking the citrate tabs for a very short time, I began to experience frightening palpitations and what I would describe as extreme "flutters" of my heart. I had given some mag citrate to people across the street and the man began experiencing the same problems. I reported this to Jack and he told me this was one area he and Dr. Blaylock had disagreed.

I immediately stopped taking the citrate tabs, waited a few days and resumed taking the mag tabs. I would still experience a few "flutters", whether some citrate was still in my system I don't know, but Jack further explained about the binders and fillers in various medications and supplements. He informed me about the mag powder that was available through NOW FOODS, www.nowfoods.com

I ordered the powder at the HF store here and started taking that. I've been fine ever since except if I feel a minor "rumble" I can trace it back to ingesting something with a hidden source of MSG.

I hope this information will encourage others to closely examine the binders and fillers in medications/supplements and even reheating leftovers of whole food. I learned the flowing agent in common table salt is another factor/culprit that caused me sciatica and possibly brain fog. I have been using RealSalt for decades but still get exposed to the common table salt when it is in processed foods that are sometimes difficult to avoid.

Over several decades our food supply has been changing and, with all due respect, the medical profession is unable to keep up with what has occurred. It is my opinion the genetically modified foods contribute to more ailments than is recognized.

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 10/05/2015

Bee, I think you mean Sinatra is for ablation, not afib?

Pat, My wife was looking over my shoulder the other day when I was on another Afib site, and said, "You dont have that anymore , why are you on there?" I havent had any episodes yet this year, and I would say more like Afib is controlled, not gone. Im still battling feeling odd at times without going into full Afib. Won't stop looking at root canal and spinal issues affecting the vagus nerve. For now, I dont hesitate to load up on ALA, Haw, Mag and any other supp to deal with the odd times. Hope things kick in for you soon Pat!!

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 12/06/2015

Hi! I have been trying bioidentical hormones and I really like how I feel but haven't changed much in my "Afib" world yet! Been about 6 months so far. But the heart m.d. also upped the flec to 2 a day which is a very low dose (50 mg each) and I'm not going up on that anymore! They seem to want me to get the ablation but I'm really scared! So I went gluten free since they say it helps but they don't know why and I started taking "cordyceps" which works well for arrythmias from what I have read! Along with all the other supplements!!! What a pain! How are you doing with yours?? Would you advocate the ablation if it were you??? Let me know! Desperate!

Replied By Lynn C (Peculiar, Mo) on 12/06/2015

I had the ablation done in 2007 and it was actually no big deal for me. My recovery time was real minimal and I have had absolutely no problems since it was done.

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 12/07/2015

Pat, ltns. How am I doing? Just coming off a bad weekend of flutter, PVCs, and tachy thrown in for good measure, minus the beast of afib, fortunately. I'll be coming up next week on 1 year with no Fibbing. This is twice this year of coming close to going out of NSR. What did or didn't I do for this to occur? The only thing I changed both times was stopping my high dose of Vit C for 2 weeks. So after taking everything under the sun to get the tachy under 100bpm, it just hit me sunday eve, I hadnt been taking C. Took 4 grams with Mag, and bang, tachy and flutter gone in 30 min. Which leads me to conclude, toxins perhaps from Root canal tooth, heart tooth at that!!! I was scheduled to have that out this fall, but ND talked me out of it. Im seeking out a different source for advise on this. I need that damn tooth! Missing 4 back ones and bridge on one side isnt the best. But the only true test to know for sure is extraction. Well see!

Now you. Maybe something like mine but if not a tooth what? Ablation? I'd give one more try to treating by detoxing. Wolfson maybe. https://www.wolfsonintegrativecardiology.com/

But if youve tried everything and still have afib, and its not permanent Afib, I'd look into it with a super star like Natale. I know 2 guys who did one and done and they both haven't had one episode in 5 years. One is completely med free. Most who do these admit to issues still like PVCs, but overall I'd say they are at least content with not dealing with AF. Pat, lets face it, we have maybe 10 to 15 GOOD years left, give or take 5. Do you want to live like this for those years? It is a heart wrenching decision, however, they have gotten better and IMO, a pretty safe and non intrusive procedure. Youre scared because yes as they say, surgery is surgery. However, they may find some other underlying issue or at least give you some assurance that this wasnt any lifestyle issue, and a physical one. SO, If I were you and exhausted all efforts on curing this, I would go for it. Lets face it Afib is such a detriment to our lifestyle with our activities, exercise and family relationships, there is some hope to live normal again. Like I said before, you can always continue a supplement protocol and seek alternative after. Regards.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 12/08/2015

Hi Mahrie.

Was just reading over some of your comments from before on the website! I am currently taking 0.5 Lorazepam as needed usually no more than that in a day. Do you think I would benefit from taking say1.0-1.5 or so?? I have been getting the afib regularly at least every 3 weeks usually comes at night( 3:00 a.m.?) for whatever reason lately and maybe if I took 0.5-1.0 at bedtime? I really don't want to get the ablation that they keep pushing! It really is against everything I believe in! Who knows what they can do to my heart? There is nothing wrong with it at least now! Scary! Well let me know if you can! Thanks!

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 12/08/2015

True, but I keep backing away from it for some reason! Doesn't seem natural I guess. keep thinking I can fix it! I am now taking cordyceps as I heard that they are very helpful with arrythmias! Dr.Becker on "bioinnovations" on T.V. is an M>D> and cancer survivor and very knowledgeable on these things. I do trust his information.And they do not interfere at all with any of the meds he claims so that is good! Some people have had arrythmias disappear completely! # years of this is definitely wearing me down, I have to admit! How long for you? We will see! Pat

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 01/03/2016

Travis,

Sorry about your increase in episodes! I, too had started with fewer and am once at least a week! I guess I may have to get the ablation too at some point! They tell me tere is another drug(Tikosyn) but I don't know after this Flecainide , that I want to take another one! I am trying the supplements that" Hwk mn" has said to try and just took flec for about 7 months but just can't take it anymore! Tough for me to take! Good luck with the ablation! Hope it helps at least!

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 01/03/2016

To Hwk Mn05:

In addition to my last post, after I increased the flec like they wanted me to for 6-7 mos.now, the afib episodes never really subsided much! I'm back to every week or so! So why take it, right? I can take to convert when I get an episode! I am so frustrated! I would like to find another kind of doctor.When looking before I found one to give me bioidentical hormones! Thought that might help with the afib but not so far.Need to find a "naturopathic" m.d. Will have to see! But I just can't take their meds anymore! Too toxic for me! Help!!! Don't want to resort to the ablation, either! Tried to comply with their treatment and just didn't work for me.They tell me there is another med( Dofetilide?)but I have to go in hospital to get on it for 2 days! That's great! Don't think I like that either!

Replied By Susan (California) on 01/04/2016

This is interesting. I once clocked my daughter's heartbeat at 210 beats per minute and the doctors didn't recommend any drugs. We got her an ablation that helped a lot but didn't stop the rapid heart beats. She then got a second ablation (both times as a teenager). She went in for a 3rd ablation and they found a tiny hole in her heart that they fixed and she never had another rapid heart beat. The first two ablations were at UCSF. She was in her late 20's/early 30's when she had the 3rd ablation (here in S, not sure if it was UCSF). She's in her mid 30's and is all good now. I hope everything works out for you.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 01/05/2016

To Susan: My daughter also has "SVT" (supraventricular tachycarida) they call it.She had it before I got the "AFIB"! They told her she has an extra circuit so to speak and that one of her parents had to have it! I thought they were crazy and then at age 60 I came down with another arrythmia(Afib)! So, hers isn't as bad and goes away in like 5 minutes when her heart goes off beating rapidly But mine lasts for 5 hrs or so! So it is much harder to tolerate!

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 01/09/2016

To Bee and Hwk mn: are either of you out there? I need some advice! Very confused about the meds and supplements! R.s.v.p. when u can!

Replied By Bee (New York) on 01/10/2016

Hi Pat

I wrote a note on here to you a few days ago . I guess you didn't see it..

I don't remember what I said but I was asking if you have tried acupuncture or any other type of modality.. don't think this is crazy but lately I have been doing a lot of Louise Hay affirmations on healing and binaural beats and rife tones.. would this help you? I would also not hesitate to seek out some other kinds of healing and not necessarily more supplements. my heart goes out to you . you must be so frustrated. I am not on any pharma drugs now and don't know what I would do if I had to take them .. keep on searching for answers .. they have to be out there somewhere. sorry all I have got..

oh; go to utube and find a doctor Robert Morse.. he has some good videos .. He is based in florida but if you write to him he might answer your questions. He is 100 percent naturopathic and holistic..

Replied By Lee (New York) on 01/11/2016

Bee, I am wondering if you have had any luck finding a good alternative Doctor (or any alternative professionals) here in New York. I would so appreciate any names you could share. Thanks. Lee

Replied By Lee (New York) on 01/11/2016

Bee, I am wondering if you have had any luck finding a good alternative Doctor (or any alternative professionals) here in New York. I would so appreciate any names you could share. Thanks. Lee

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 01/11/2016

Pat and Bee, I'm here. Susan from CA makes an excellent point about an underlying issue. We all must have that, or the other 97% would have Afib. The $100,000 answer is what is that underlying problem and why dont meds work? Recently a good friend of mine went into AF at the age of 58. However, something went seriously wrong on the attempted cardio vert and they dug deeper. Only to find a giant aneurysm in her aorta. Im thinking that is one of the worst case scenarios. Bottom line is if Meds/supplements dont work, its time to dig deeper.

Replied By Bee (New York) on 01/11/2016

Hi Lee

Actually I don't really know any alternative doctors anymore but I have a friend who has cancer and she goes to one in Manhattan.. If I can find out the name and information I will gladly pass it on to you.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 01/12/2016

Hi Bee and Hwk!

Thanks Bee for the tip.I will check out Dr.Morse on utube!

Well, Hwk, I tried to go the route the doctors wanted and takemore flecainide but I couldn't stand how I felt and they just kept telling me to up the dose when another dose didn't work! And I couldn't take it so am only taking 1 50 mg flec a day now( at night so I don't experience the side effects) same with the Toprol, at night. Don't know if either one of them helps though as I still get acute attacks every week to 10 days! I did find Taurine and am taking this.Feel better but not sure if it helps the attacks.Also increased my Magnesium intake with spray oil so I absorb it better in higher doses! And just took these and the Hawthorne to try and convert without flecainide! We'll see! Still afraid to get ablation! Don't trust that it won't make something else worse! Rather would get it manageable on my own! Yours got less frequent you said over time.They tell me that typically it will get worse and more frequent! Like no hope at all of going back to 1x month or 2 months like when it started. Don't know if I believe that or not.I will keep trying.

Thanks to everyone for all your support! Helps me stay positive and not be so depressed! Stay well!

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 01/12/2016

Bee, funny you should mention "binaural beats".My friends x-brother-in-law up in New York is a kinesiologist and a brilliant guy and she asked him for me what I could do and he thinks my "heart chakra" is blocked first of all and I need to unblock it.Suggested these frequencies! Then he said I can go on a regimen of things but need to unblock first! So I have tried a little bit of it.Don't know if I stick it out long enough, you know? I get bored with them and have trouble concentrating or meditating! I get antsy! Can't even get a pedicure without wanting to get up and run! Too long for me! Better get back to my lorazepam for the anxiety( from the AFIB) that I never had before! Also she had another theory that is really"out there" that the earth is "ascending" on its axis and that these are all sensitivities people are having to this! Crazy, right? WHO KNOWS?

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 01/12/2016

Just had to take 2 "flecs" to try to get back to NSR! The supplements I took this a.m. didn't do it! It's been about 6 hrs. now and I don't like to let it go any longer! It's hard having it THIS long! HThey should work soon I hope! I still would rather take them this way than 2x a day everyday! Hwk, you say yours lasts longer? I know you don;t get it as frequently though! Maybe I should try the ablation! So confused! Wish I knew what the REAL success rate was! They tell me that there is no "national registry" for this and that they believe it is about 70% nationally! Whatever that means! I think they are being mandated by the insurance companies to come up with one so that they know whether or not they(the insurance companies) will continue to pay for this procedure or not! Guess we knew it would come down to this eventually!

Replied By Robert Henry (Ten Mile , Tn) on 01/12/2016

HI U PAT, , , , , , , , , , guess all the world has this AFib problem. Just left my Cardiologist office for a follow up after he had put me on Cardizen following my last ER AFib episode. I took the Rx for a few weeks and decided to research natural supplements that don't have the terrible long term side effects. I have dropped the Rx, but did not tell them that.

Don't know if these new supplements have helped but I have not had another spell. Here are the new items I started using:

WHITE WILLOW BARK EXTRACT ( aspirin) CARDIAC Px (helps control rhythm and rate) NATTOKIINASE ( clot buster) CAYENNE ( blood thinner) L- CARNITINE DRUCKER LABS ORGANIC TRACE MINERALS

I also make sure I don't miss my magnesium or Vit D 3.

"LORD HAVE MERCY"... I sure wish I'd taken better care of myself over the years. But then I'd not know all you great people on EC.

=========ORH===========

Replied By Bee (New York) on 01/12/2016

Pat.

Please don't give up on the rife tones or binaural beats.. If you get bored get some adult coloring books and while you listen with your ear buds you can color.. Its very relaxing and it will also alleviate anxiety... Also have you tried EFT.. tapping. I do it everyday and it works.. check utube.

Oh; and as far as the earth axis thing don't think this is crazy but your kinsiologist is right. there are sensitives on this planet now experiencing this and guess what? I am one of them too.. its all true.. there were channellers who predicted this and said all sensitives would be going through an earthy process and it has come true.. you will have all kinds of symptoms due to energy fields. etc.etc... so don't discount what she said.. oh; and yes I do believe your heart chakra could be blocked so there are ways to unblock it... with metaphysical modalities.check utube for how to unblock chakras.

So maybe this will all help..

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 01/13/2016

Thanks, Robert! It sure does seem like a lot of people are fighting this thing! I wouldn't mind taking the meds if they worked and didn't give such lousy side effects! But I find the supplements are more helpful and easier to take! And the ablation? Well, I don't know about that! If I could be sure it worked...? But for now I guess I'll just have to be my own doctor, although that's scary too! Hope you feel better after your E.R. visit! Do they have to cardiovert you? Or do you convert with the meds?

-----

Well, Bee maybe that's what all these arrythmias are about! The earth tilting and some of our electrical systems are hyper sensitive to it! I will continue with the binaural beats.Can't hurt! Hopefully it will help! You say they have helped you? I do think there may be something to the idea of "healing frequency" will keep going with it!

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 01/17/2016

Where doyou get nattokinase? I heard about these in place of blood thinners! That may be what I will use too as I don't want to take blood thinner.Just take low dose aspirin! I am using the Mg spray and I think that is working instead of trying to take all that by mouth! And the Taurine seems to help me feel better! I still take a low dose of beta blocker and a low dose of flecainide every day. But I think the supplements actually make the meds work better, if that is possible! But when I try to go off one of the flec doses I started getting afib every 1-2 days! Or more, so had to go back on it! Just 50 mg every 12 hrs.So will try again after I get it under control again! Don't know if I'll be able to get off it for a while!

Replied By Patrick (Washington) on 02/07/2016

You are on the right track getting the subluxation of your spine taken care of. Dr Wallach says (and I have proven it) that afib is caused by a back problem.

There is a nerve that controls your heart and it gets pinched by a disc in the spinal column so if you get realigned that should get rid of afib.

I confirmed what Dr Wallach said by using a chest strap (Polar) and a wrist watch that work together as a pulse indicator. It is within 2 heart beats of the ones used in hospitals cuz I checked mine over a 13 day stay in hospital.

Anyway I have a gravity inverter chair where you hook your feet into it and then you can go completely upside down or what ever angle you want and I use a 45 degree setting. When I look at my pulse watch before going upside down 45 degrees its at 65 BPM (on meds) and goes to over 200 BPM the instant I invert myself which tells me the nerve in my spine is being pinched more when I'm upside down and causing my pulse rate to go even higher even on meds. As soon as I come back up to a normal body angle my pulse rate goes back to 65 BPM.

I am planning on going to see a Chiropractor Dr John Bergman in Huntington Beach Calif as He has dozens of YouTube videos and he speaks of the pinched nerve in one of his heart videos.

Allopathic doctors are totally Ignorant to the pinched nerve causing afib because they are only taught Rx based medicine in the med schools they are trained in because the schools are owned by the big drug companies.

Replied By Patrick (Washington State) on 02/07/2016

Hey Lorraine......was the video you watched saying afib was caused by a misaligned spine, a YouTube video? was it Chiropractor Dr John Bergman or World Famous Dr Wallach? I just posted telling how I proved them saying it's a pinched nerve from misaligned spine is indeed true.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 02/14/2016

I was interested in the information about AFIB being a misaligned spine! Can you elaborate anymore for me? Thanks! I've been suffering with this for 3 yrs now and nothing helps! If you could, please let me know!

Replied By Mary (Tx) on 09/04/2016

Pat .. I know this is old post .. just a comment... I too am battling the monster.. mine is anxiety induced .. just had a major attack .. anyway my primary doc prescribed klonopin (generic clonezpam) at nite before bed and I have been event free for 12 days. That is after having near attacks 2-3 x a day for 6 weeks after my cardioversion. Maybe not be an answer forever but for now it's working. will add more supplements .. anything to avoid the ablation. :/

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 10/04/2016

Thanks Mary, I will try taking my lorazepan(similar I think) at bedtime since most of the time the episodes are waking me at night now! I will try that! Don''t know why they come at night but they do! Will let you know!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 10/04/2016

Pat, How's things in the Fib world? I saw something on another site that was interesting. Someone claimed that D-Ribose, 5 gms of powder drink per day, cured their PACs and afib. 've researched it some and will give it a try.

The Vit C is working fine for me still and has been 28 mos without meds and 22 mos afib free. I still get those little reminders like the skips and the flutter now and again, but nothing like before and easier to detect and control.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 10/05/2016

Hey you! Oh I so wish I could get 22mos without IT! No, things were good for about 4 months and then I got some sort of stomach thing from all the MG (Magnesium), I guess or just "detoxing" and it started up again few times a week! I kept asking Dr. Dean on her website why the Mg was having this effect on me as she claims this liquid Mg does not affect the bowels as others can but anyway I think I was losing all my Mg and minerals because of the way it was giving me bowel issues and I got worse in June! Sooooo, been trying to get back on track again! I take 2 tsp of liquid"ReMag"(Dr.dean website) and I'm OK but she said it can take as much as 3tsp as it did for her and I just can't get that much in me without bowel issues! I feel great with the dose I'm on and still get afibs about 1x a week mostly late at night though and lasts much shorter time, about 2-3 hrs and I dont take any meds at all anymore even when I get it and I think I am actually better without them! I take Taurine, "Heart Calm" and Mg. Along with the other familiar supplements( Vitc1000 E, Fish oil, D, whatever) so I don't get it! I am trying 1000 mg Taurine twice a day for awhile. What do you think? I was hoping I would find you on here as you always seemed so knowledgeable with all of this! I haven't gone back to Cardiologist because they are not going to like me off all meds but I feel better w/out them and they don't help! If they did, I would take them! Think I may try getting my spine aligned by chiro too! And oh, hell why not try(ribose is it?) that too? Let me know! At least I am getting much more comfortable with all of this and not as "scared" as I used to be! When I get it at night I get p and go down and sit in my recliner for about 2 hrs. my husband thinks I'm crazy! He comes down and shakes his head like "why don't you do something about this" Like "ablation" I guess! No thanks! Once again, like the meds, it doesn't always work and why risk the side effects! That is just how I feel! Like it won't work! So I can tolerate it for 2hrs once a week at night I guess! Maybe lorazepan at night?

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 10/06/2016

Hey Pat, I guess this is good news bad news, ok news? You may need a good heavy metal cleanse, maybe thats going on now. 4 months is pretty good tho. Two thoughts on the Remag. One, if you are eliminating too quickly, you may not need as much. The catch is something else is going on at the same time when we empty out, dehydration, which is a sure trigger for afib. I would find a way to hydrate while taking mg. Two, Liquid may be working too fast to hold in. The way Mg works for most is over time slowly building in our tissues. On those days where I feel out of sorts, I can take MG all day long with no bowel issue. Other times, one or two go right thru me. Im ok with Remag, but I think its very expensive and overkill. I would try Mag Oil along with some Mg Glycinate and maybe some epsom soaks. But epsom will dehydrate you fast also.

The latest allopathic site I was recently kicked and banned from has some there with 5 or 6 ablations!! They dont work! And now were finding out that dementia is 10 times more likely in those who ablate. Ask hub if hed rather be combing your hair and spoon feeding you strained peas or watch you read a book at 2am?

I think Taurine is good. I dont take daily, more when I feel the need. Look into PQQ also. I would definitely look into D-Ribose, 5 grams powder mix per day and increase the C, at least 4gm, due to the fact that C has a short half life, read up on that. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/linus-pauling-vindicated-researchers-claim-rda-for-vitamin-c-is-flawed-71172707.html

I take up to 4 gms per day now. When I dont, PACs come storming back. Im getting some Ribose this week.

I put my wife on Tryptophan for sleeping, too soon to know if its working. I need to research this more. May need to combine something else with it.

Chiros can work, and some can hurt. One threw me into Fib once. I would rather find a kinesiologist who is familiar with Vagus nerve stimulation. Sounds like you may have a gut connection also. I started on the C at the same time Kines did my neck and PACs left, so I related to Kines, but now Im not sure. One tip he did give me was to heat my neck for as long as I could stand it very hot, 1-2 hours. Then lay on my back and hang my head over the edge of the bed.

My last conversation with EPs nurse was amusing. She made the mistake of asking what I take and what works. I told her all I may need from EP is script for PIP, and had no need for daily meds or counsel for ablation. She said Id be wasting his time and mine. I agreed, total waste of my time and money.

Replied By Trudygi (Bama) on 10/06/2016

I can't take magnesium, either. Even the sublingual that they say doesn't affect the bowels gives me diarrrhea. Even the magnesium oil applied to my skin, 8 drops, gives me diarrhea. So many people have such simple solutions, take an epsom salt bath, take charcoal for your diarrhea. They are clueless. Do they honestly think I haven't tried all these solutions? I have. I have made diet changes, taken all sorts of drugs, had every test imagineable. Nothing. So, I take the mag (since I get leg cramps if I don't) and then I take 2 immodium. I take, on average, 4 immodium/day and have taken 12 on some days. I know that something is out of whack, but darned if I can figure it out. I've had ibs-d for over 50 years. I'm about to the point where I want a colostomy just so I can come and go when I want without taking a change of clothes. I can never go out to eat (which makes traveling hard). I'm glad you are able to tolerate your afib. Perhaps you will be able to slowly adjust your supplements and get even better. I usually try to 'load' my system when I know I"ll be near a restroom and not worry about it the rest of the time.

Replied By Robert Henry (Ten Mile , Tn) on 10/06/2016

HI U PAT,,,,,,,,,, I too get diarrhea if I take regular magnesium. Instead I use MgCl trandermally and Magnesium L- Threonate, which is an MIT patented supplement. Neither causes you bowel problems.

If you lose your electrolytes because of diarrhea, then your heart does not know whether to sheet or go blind. Seldom does a cardiologist address that issue. A few years ago, I learned this the hard way. The arterial-gram showed my heart vessels were as clean as a baby's butt. That was after 60+ EDTA chelations. The cardiologist could not believe a 75 year old diabetic could no vessel plug gage at all.

You must have magnesium, so you may want to consider the ones above.

=======ORH=========

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 10/10/2016

Thanks Henry, Trugi and Hwk! Nice to know I'm not the only one dealing with this problem taking Mg! I will try the high doses of VitC too! You have a point there withall the "liquid Remag" I may be absorbing it too fast! Will start trying to "tweak" my intake! I know it really has helped because after starting it last November, I noticed I felt so much better and had more energy! When they put me on those meds I immediately started feeling awful! Felt like I was much older than my age! And I was always a "younger" version of my age! This wasn't me! I knew I could not live this way! Since I have been on these supplements, I feel great! If I could just get to the point where I didn't get it as often as at least once a week sometimes 2x week, I think I would be able to live with it peacefully! Once a month wouldn't be so bad! But twice a week is too much! Although only lasts for 2-3 hrs as opposed to 6-7 as it did before the Mg & Taurine! I do use the spray Mg too! Only 4-5 sprays maybe once or twice day! Will keep in touch! Blessings to all of you! I know we can all do this! You all give me so much more strength and willpower to deal with this! My gratitude to all! Its going to workout OK! Pat

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 10/12/2016

Pat, I'm with you on the younger version part, this makes us feel like were ready for the home. Not that there is a magic bullet, but possibly a good ammo supply. Doctors like to make us believe they are the only chance we have to beat afib. I'm no different than any other person with AF, I just keep trying different things and some have worked. Its impossible to know what is going on in everyone's system or lifestyle, so what works for one may not work for the other. Potassium was thought to be a no no for us and too much is harmful for our hearts, but recently I'm seeing some posts that just as with Mag, we need more usually. Balanced with Mag of course.

Replied By Bee (New York) on 10/13/2016

Hi Pat and Hawk..

Glad you guys are doing well.. Ive been following Dr. Robert Morse on utube.. I have been eating a lot of raw veggies and fruits... a lot of fruits.. 'Im feeling so much better.... its been almost a year now.. I am trying to stay away from cooked food. I might have some on the weekends.. yes I miss it but the raw foods are really taking out toxins and all.. Dr. Morse says if we clear out our lymphatic system we can cure a lot of things... look him up on utube.. he says with Afib a raw diet will clear that up.. so exciting!! My heart has been so much better also..

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 10/13/2016

As you said, will keep hunting for what works/doesn't work for me! That is all we can do! The medical community doesn't have any good answers for us, that's for sure! I went into afib a little earlier and took a metatropol to see if it would help shorten it along with all my other supplements, including Taurine and Hawthorn and ...nothing! Doesn't do anything! Don't even know whyI took it! Every once in a while I try their meds but always the same! Could take Flec but that makes me dizzy and feel really bad and also doesnt work so I won't! Just "ride it out"It will go away eventually! Will just keep on going today with my daily routine! Haven't bought the Ribose yet! Soon I will try it though! Don't know whether to keep my appt with cardio at end of November or not! Have to think about it! We are driving to Florida for a wedding next week and will stay with a friend a few nights! Hope it all works I'm not letting this s--t stop me from doing what I want to do anymore! On with my life! Afib or no Afib! Just pisses me off that I can't drink any alcohol withit! But if I'm already in it and I go somewhere I will! Can't be any worse! Will let you know! You sound like you're doing great with yours! Hope I can get there!!! Hanging in! Pat

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 10/14/2016

Hey, Bee! So glad to hear youre doing better! I was wondering! And I will look him up on youtube! I am doing some new supplements and hoping that something will slow down or eradicate my Afib soon! I feel 100x better than I did 4 yrs ago! But still battling the "beast"! I know I'm on the right track because I feel too good, not to be! Just haven't hit on the right thing yet! But thank God for my good health, otherwise! And I know there is something I'm missing or deficient in! The Mg helped alot but got bowel issues when trying to increase dose to "therapeutic! I did start "nattokinase" and also take VitE to keep blood thin! Tables will turn soon! Off all meds! And don't intend to go back on them so I don't know whether to go back to cardiologist or not! Just keep up with my "primary" Dr.I think thats enough! He gets it! He said he would never take the antiarrythmic drugs or the blood thinners! How's that for an honest dr.? Stay well Keep in touch!

Replied By Robert Henry (Ten Mile , Tn) on 10/14/2016

HI U PAT,,,,,,,,, you on the right trail. There is a magnesium that you can take that will not mess up your bowels. It is magnesium L theronate and is a patent by MIT. We take it and it does not give us the green apple trots.

Think I've isolated my A Fib to sleep apnea and will see a specialist soon. When I wake and my blood oxygen level is 93 then I know what caused my heart racing. No oxygen... because I stopped breathing. It's a sheet + 2 = 8 thing.

========ORH=======

Replied By Janet (In) on 10/14/2016

Trudygi. I have had problems since I has my lower intestine removed a few years ago. Unable to leave the house.

I ran across Teds remedy for ibs d it sounded extreme at first. I tried it. It worked for my problem even missing the intestine. DHEA 100mg in the am 2.5. To 5 mg melatonin at night. Quite amazing relief. It has been a few months now still working.

I take this 5 days out of 7.

Janet

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 10/14/2016

Hey Bee, good to hear from you and the good news. Very interesting on the lymphatic system. Our bodies can heal us if we give them the necessary fuel and nutrition. Glad its working. I'm somewhat opposite on veggies myself hardly eating raw as I don't think our stomachs were made for uncooked food, but the angle of removing toxins could have some truth to it. I'll check that site out.

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 10/14/2016

Robert, I find that I'm different than most folks concerning Mag. I know when I'm under stress or feeling odd, Mag is low. It has no effect whatsoever immediately on my bowels taking large amounts. Possibly the next day, but its one supplement that makes a noticeable difference with afib.

Sleep apnea is a real condition that may effect our afib. However, it won't always control it, just remove another trigger. I am however in complete disagreement with the allopathic treatment of symptoms only. It has been related to serious lack of oxygen in your blood and forcing air into your lungs will not address the real issue. If your test is positive I would seek out some natural cures. Just IMHO.

Replied By KT (Usa) on 10/15/2016

I have a Nutrition Almanac that says minerals become attached to amino acids before absorption takes place. Amino acids are found along the intestinal wall and act as receptors for the minerals. If complete protein is not consumed they pass through the intestinal tract without having a chance to attach.

I'm in my late 60's and don't have a problem with magnesium causing me diarrhea as long as I get complete protein which is reported essential to consume with each meal.

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 10/17/2016

KT, great point. Absorption is always the key along with increasing MGs bio availability. That's why I usually turn my wife's salad away and request it to be cooked, receiving a stern look.

The debate about raw vs. cooked foods will probably never be completely settled. But the fact is that some nutrients, magnesium included, are released from the food matrix through the process of cooking (particularly quick, gentle cooking such as sautéing or steaming). Another benefit of cooking is that it lessens the amount of oxalic acid in foods like spinach. Oxalic acid can hinder magnesium absorption, and research shows that cooked spinach has a higher magnesium absorption rate than raw. http://saveourbones.com/what-you-should-and-shouldnt-do-to-get-maximum-magnesium-bioavailability/#

Replied By Mama To Many (Tennessee) on 10/17/2016

Dear Hwkmno5 and KT,

Regarding the cooking of food - herbalist Susun Weed makes a good point that relates to this topic. She believes that brewing a tea is preferable to taking capsules of an herb. She says you are allowing time and heat to do the work of extracting nutrients for you. It makes sense to me. While we do use some herbal capsule for convenience, I do prefer teas and tinctures for this reason.

~Mama to Many~

Replied By Cindy (Osceola, Mo) on 11/08/2016

My husband has found out at a routine Dr. change that he has a fib. He could not have an echo cardiogram because his heart rate was over 154 which they said would not allow the cardiagram to be done. The week before his rate was 94. He feels fine right now. Yesterday thay gave him an ekg. Which showed his heart rate was all over the place, Still feels fine. No shortness of breath nothing. In June he was having some dizziness which he mentioned to the doctor then and they didn't seem to find a thing wrong. They have him on mycardis starting today and all kinds of other medications. He has high blood pressure and diabetes which makes everything worse of course. More worried about a stroke. He has to be hooked up to a machine every time he goes in the doctor's office to see he is in a fib. No one here seems to have to do this. It is expensive and who wants to do this at least once a week. Why does he have no symptoms now?? I hate that they already are starting the dangerous meds which may be as bad as the illness. Everyone here seems to know they are in a fib so why doesn't he know it? Ideas appreciated.

Replied By Wendy (Columbus, Oh) on 11/09/2016

Symptoms of afib (Atrial Fibrillation) are difficult to recognize unless by a doctor using an EKG. Back in May of this year, I had bouts of my heart pounding, more so the minute I lay down to sleep at night. I kept thinking it was anxiety/stress. Then one day when I was working from home, my heart was pounding all day. I called one of my docs and he said to get to the emergency room right away, and he insisted. I went and long story short, they diagnosed me with afib. I was in the hospital for a week and they did a cardioversion (CV) on me which basically shocks the heart back into normal rhythm. They give you a mild sedative prior to this procedure, and before I knew it, I was awake, and my heart was back to normal rhythm. The CV literally lasts a couple of seconds. A month later I had to do wear a 24-hour heart monitor to confirm I was still in normal rhythm, and I was. In January I'll do a week-long heart monitoring, and we'll see if I'm still in normal rhythm. I believe I am because I haven't experienced the heart pounding since the CV procedure.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 11/10/2016

My doctor does an EKG every time I go to check for AFIB! I think most do! I usually know if I'm in it because I can feel it but apparently everyone with AFIB doesn't feel it.Which is why so many people are undiagnosed! Sometimes I wish I was like that and didn't feel it! It isn'tt a nice feeling and goes on for hours usually! Very disrupting! Lately mine comes only at night and I don't know why so I just get up out of bed and go sit in a chair since I feel better upright, not lying down and then try to take different pills/supplements to get it to calm down which as I said takes few hours.Then I try to go back to bed and sleep through it if it is still going! Sleep deprivation seems to make me feel worse next day and meds make me feel worse too! I really don't like the idea of cardiac ablation but I have been fighting this for 4 years now and it gets tiring! Problem is, ablation doesnt work always! So then what do you do? And could ablation make you worse? Don't know!

Replied By Wendy (Columbus, Oh) on 11/11/2016

@Pat: Any reason why your doctor doesn't suggest a cardioversion (CV)? Read my story above yours :-)

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 11/16/2016

Yes, Wendy! The thing is, CV can fix it for a time but, like ablation there is no guarantee that it won't come back and most of the time I have seen them do CV on patients that won't convert on their own or with meds as a last resort to get the heart back to normal rhythm.

Replied By Mama To Many (Tn) on 11/16/2016

Pat and Wendy,

My mother in law has had cardioversion done twice for her a-fib. Unfortunately, neither time did it work for her. An ablation was considered, but her age and overall poor health ruled that out. She is on meds and has been stable a long time.

A friend of ours has managed a-fib for years with cayenne/ginger/garlic/onion capsules. Not saying it is that simple a fix for everyone but it has worked for him for years.

And that is about the beginning and end of all I know about a-fib. Not even my 2 cents but others!

~Mama to Many~

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 11/24/2016

Hi Hawk! I decided to go back for yearly with Cardio doc and they really upset me this week! Shouldn't have gone! I told them episodes were much shorter bt came once a week and they kept telling me it was going to get worse and "where was I going with this"? And really pushed ablation and Dofetilide which ia so dangerous you have to be admitted to hospital for 3 days to get on and is of course very expensive(how nice for the drug company! ) They weren't even comfortable with the fact that I was doing better! Can you believe this??? I know "Bee" will understand too!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 11/27/2016

Pat, of course they love good news, but only when its from using their dangerous protocol. I'm betting you can beat these short ones treating them like PVCs at some point. The only precaution I would suggest is making sure your INR levels are good due to stroke risk by not being in nsr all the time. I'm not sure how you would go about doing this or what you can take however.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 12/03/2016

Doctor I found recently is N.D. and put me on something called "Hemoguard" It works as blood thinner. From what I can find on internet it is Ginkoba Biloba I think.He says its blood thinner. Is that what you mean? I was never planning to take pharmaceutical blood thinners.Too many bad side effects.At least that is how I feel now about it. I also went back before I saw cardio docs to 12.5mg Toprol a day because I knew they would ask.So I will take small amount and stick with my ND for supplements.He also did some chiro on my T2 which he said was bothering me because of Afib or could cause Afib! All nerves from this muscle lead to heart he said! Makes sense to me! Im only out f NSR about 1-2 week for 2-3 hrs each time. So youre right, I think I'm having more PVC's now than before for whatever reason I don't know.But I told them"I'm managing(the beast)! At least for now! Last yr around January I went for almost a few months with hardly anyafibs! Trying to get back to that! Havent tried d-ribose yet.Taking ones the ND/chiro gave me for awhile.We'll see! Will keep u posted!

Replied By Robert Henry (Ten Mile , Tn) on 12/04/2016

PAT,,,,,,, my integrative doctor's wife has A Fib and he put her on Nattokinase. That is what I use along with Taurine, Cardiac Px (Hawthorne) and the prescription drug, Cartizem. I have no problem if I stay regular. Getting a C pack type device this week to address my sleep apnea, which I think is the root source of this ailment.

My doctor has found Rat Poison has lots of serious side effects and they do well when he weans them from this stupidity. As usual, patients have to be in deep dodo before they go to him because of the propaganda put out by the main stream medical folks. He uses supplements first and drugs last.

=======ORH========

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 12/04/2016

I'm in my 60's and maybe I don't get enough protein with each meal! I really am a grazer and don't eat that much at all! I am taking "power green" powder supplement now as per my ND. Don't get enough good nutrients! This should help! Don't know about helping the Afib though!

---------

Thanks, Robert Henry! My ND just put me on anatural blood thinner called "Hemoguard" I think it is mainly Ginkoba Biloba. He gave me this when I asked him about nattokinase.Think they work the same way Cardiac docs got me all upset a few weeks ago.Telling me I needed to "do something"! Something meaning ablation or go on another dangerous antiarrythmic drug called Dofetilide. You have to be admitted to hospital for 3 days just to go on it! No thanks! I'll take my chances! I know what supplements to take! They don't! Probably won't go back! They did also say they would b putting me on blood thinner by next yr(age 65) Warfarin, etc! I already decided I'm not going on those! Once again, No thanks! I get all the side effects of these meds and none of the benefits if there are any! Will keep u posted! Good luck w C-pap! Sleep apnea definitely worsens it as does sleep deprivation! Just an example of what I was telling you, I took a half piece of beta blocker this afternoon and immediately almost as I swallowed went into afib! From that! It's nuts! Was fine before I swallowed!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 12/05/2016

Robert, yes rat poison as it was invented for, is a terrible med with some long lasting side effects known and unknown, such as dementia. As a short term med, it can be a life saver. Im not totally anti med as much as Im anti symptom treatment. Never getting to the root cause or having any interest in doing so for the sake of the almighty dollar, is most likely what is in the heart of allopaths. Some may pretend to believe meds heal us, but in reality, they refuse many they prescribe. I would research Natto a bit more if I were you however, or at least be tested to make sure it is doing what it is supposed to do. Ive heard that it is not a proven thinner per se. Magnesium can thin also, but to what degreee a persistent afibber needs, Im not certain.

However, the way you are treating your apnea is not a cure, but once again ignoring a larger issue in your system, low oxygen in your blood. Forcing air down into your lungs is not going to cure anything, tho you may sleep better. It may not address afib either, its about 50/50. Not to be contentious here because were all in the same boat looking for answers, but there are risks with this condition we need to be aware of when relying on opinions not proven.

Replied By Robert Henry (Ten Mile , Tn) on 12/05/2016

Hwkmn,,,,,,,, you have a point about temporarily taking prescription drugs, and that is the reason I'm taking Cartizem that my cardiologist prescribed.

However, let me elaborate a little more about my situation. I have the O2 and pulse device that goes on your finger. When I am waked at night I use this to see what my pulse and O2 level is. I explained to my sleep doctor that I thought I stopped breathing and my O2 was bottoming out so my heart was going into A Fib. He said it was more likely the opposite.

After my night at the sleep lab, he then admitted that I was right. I then went back to the sleep lab to use a C pack and see the doctor Thursday to get the results . Both sleep technicians had been in the business for over 15 years each and said that almost all who solve their sleep apnea also solve their A Fib.

I truly appreciate your input and concern. If you had followed my ails over the years you would know that I research until I get the last squeal out of a pig. I also listen to people who are sincere and you are.

=====ORH=======

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 12/06/2016

I'm guessing you mean CPAP? Yes, our hearts stop several times a night, it's a natural occurrence. If CPAP or a dental device cures your afib, I'd be all in. For me its which came first, the chicken or the egg? If our Vagus tone is impinged somehow during sleep, CPAP wont change that. That was my issue. I never could sleep on my left side, woke up in afib a few times. Now, I sleep any way I want. But that was after treating my Neck with Kinesiologist.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 12/08/2016

My ND is also used kinesiology to test me. He gave me a natural thinner called "Hemoguard along with anothercalled"HeartFormula" and another for Candida which I had already started treating myself for this summer! I should be the healthiest person on the planet by now, I told him! With all the healthy food/supplements I've taken! And other alternative practices! Crazy! But I just can't believe that ablation and/or drugs with potentially serious side effects are the answer for me! Don't feel it in my soul! I'm certain if I live long enough that I will hear something very different as a treatment someday! As a matter of fact "Medicare" is lookinginto the success of these ablations now, I hear, to see whether or not they intend to cover the cost of them in the future! Maybe that will spread theword as to whether or not to have one! We'll see! So far for me the alternative route has given me the most optimism! And I am not plagued with side effects! Will stick with the ND for now I think! Have to follow my intuition!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 12/10/2016

Hey Pat, that is a strange name for a supplement, the same as the vial they draw blood into?

Still battling I see. I'd be a bit leery of natural thinners. I'm not saying they don't work, but I would want to see some hard evidence with some concrete serum testing. If you are in constant afib, at your age, your stroke risk is 5 times higher. Just saying.

Replied By KT (Usa) on 12/10/2016

Dear Pat,

Please forgive me if I am out of line here but I feel like I have to say something...I agree with Hwkmn05, being leery of those reported "natural" thinners you mentioned. Hemoguard and HeartFormula are manufactured products. "Natural" thinners are garlic, ginger and/or turmeric. Cayenne pepper is reported to be the healthiest natural herb/spice for your heart.

Replied By Robert Henry (Ten Mile, Tn) on 12/10/2016

HWKMN,,,,,,,, see you are still questioning natural blood thinners and yet you don't question rat poison, with its disastrous side effects.

ATS ======ORH========

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 12/14/2016

Robert, choose your poison wisely. My philosophy on meds is consistent here as is my advice, no matter what method you choose, get tested by a trained professional to make sure its working as prescribed. I choose supplements or natural for all conditions. However if after a reasonable amount of time there is no change or a worse change, unfortunately, its time to look at meds. All chemicals including supplements have side effects. But, stroke risk/death is nothing we can play around with. If you have to take meds, then supplement with proper minerals and vitamins to keep your side effects at a minimum and your system healthy. Personally, I have heard of several cases concerning afib where the patients were on all the natural "thinners" and had a stroke. The questions for me are always, quality and correct potency of the supplement, transition time from meds, and adherence. The few mentioned here, E, Natto, and Mag are not proven blood thinners with any certain double blind trials, in the reasonable amount of time vs risk. I know, I had my INR tested after some time and there was zero change. As for Pat, her risks are quite high due to several factors, gender, age, and borderline persistent afib. If anyone can safely prove that natural thinners are working, I'm all in.

Replied By Tina (Princeton) on 12/15/2016

Regarding your statement about unproven blood thinners, until double blind studies prove they are, please be aware that not all double blind studies are to be believed either. Read former editor-in-chief of The New England Journal of Medicine Marcia Angell 's book The Truth about drug companies: How they deceive us and what to do about it. Drug companies are not here for charity purposes. They want to maximize profits and to hell with the health of people.

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 01/04/2017
Tina, absolutely correct on drug companies. If it was based all on success they would be out of business. 100,000 a year killed due to prescription drugs overdose. Thats whats documented. What doesnt get in the stat are vaccines also, like the flu shot listing death as Pneumonia or respiratory failure.

I am however ok with using meds in the short term along with replacement therapy, certain anti boitics and anyone that is in need due to neglecting their health thru a bad diet/lifestyle. Perhaps their only chance, tho not a great one.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 12/20/2016

That is very true, Tina! And as far as natural blood thinners, the difference is a milder way of thinning and not as potent and dangerous as Warfarin, etc! So who is to say that you necessarily need such a "powerful"effect? I choose to think a milder blood thinning is the way to go for men. And I use my intuition to decide these things! We all have it and that's why God gave it to us! You need to use your own intuitive abilities sometimes! Most every med I've taken so far from traditional doctors has been 'too strong and potent" for me! Which is why I don't take them anymore! There are other ways to go. And in Europe, supplements are very widely studied and used as first defense before meds! I would like to see that happen in this country someday too! Keep your "third eye" open!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 12/22/2016

Pat, that is all well and good on using what is natural. I am in the same camp. However, I am also an advocate for testing to verify that even supplements are doing what they are intended to do. I was on one supplement for over a year for a different condition. I got worse. I have no issue taking meds with little side effects to treat certain conditions when natural is either not available or ineffective. If my ND comes up with one that addresses it naturally, Im all in.

I did warfarin for a time with little issues, tho still had some side effects. What concerns me is the long term danger as much as the HASBLEDS stats. I checked into that supplement and it is the same name as the vial they collect blood in? Any other name for it?

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 12/23/2016

No Hwk.it says "Hemo Guard Supreme(dietary supplement).I had actually bought natto and didn't know how much to take as you say to achieve the right results! So I was lucky to find an ND DC holistic doctor with great reviews not too far away from my home! I like to believe it was no "coincidence" as I have been looking for some time! Anyway I asked about Natto and he said he likes it too.but had a mentor that thinks this his way better! So I am taking this instead. And for right now 1 capsule 3x day.I have been treating myself for long time but wanted a professional to tell me about this.I also take VitE.Fish oil etc so I am satisfied and kind of believe that I was probably OK even without those. My dad had afib but nonsymptomatic and didn't die till age 85.I'm sure he probably had it for many years before that! And everybody w Afib doesn't stroke out like they would have us believe! Call me crazy, but I'm not buying that! The key is taking care of yourself in every circumstance! Many people abuse their bodies for long time and then well what do you expect? Anyway I'm hoping to get rid of this for good! I know that there has been much information suppressed from us for decades and that is all going to change soon! I get some "inside info"!

Have a great holiday!

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 12/26/2016

just when I thought I was done with meds, I am back on fleccainide as PIP Beta blockers not doing it Supplements not doing it couldn't stand it anymore!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 12/27/2016

Pat, sorry to hear that. As for the Hemogaurd, I think I hear that bird again, if you listen closely you can hear it....Quack Quack. There is nothing in that pill that will safely prevent your blood from clotting should you have a long episode and blood pools in the bottom of your heart. Magnesium which is much cheaper, will do about the same as those ingredients. Flec is a good PIP Ive used before in 45 min I converted. Havent used in over 2 years since.

The one thing I am still not hearing from you is, what are your test results concerning INR etc? We need to hold these supplement makers accountable just as much as Pharma.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 12/28/2016

I get what youre saying, Hwk! I will ask him about "INR" to check results! I had not taken Flec for about ayear and just too other day 100mg to get back in NSR! I think I'm just so sick of it that sometimes I feel like I could take every pill in my medicine cabinet /supplements to see if something stops it! Crazy, I know! Comes too often! But I will settle down after I get pissed off at it again and go into my "accepting" mode! Even though life sucks withAfib! I'll go back to "managing the beast"! As I told cardio doctors when I was there! Maybe I will end up on blood thinner after all! Trying not to though! Don't trust them! Keep hoping I'll find the "cure" soon! Could be the electronics surge that we've been in for awhile! And I'm sensitive to all the "waves"! Makes sense to me! Whacking out my electrical system! I will check back after my next visit! Trying to hold off because it is all "out of pocket" and I need to space the visits out appropriately for my pocketbook you know? Maybe 2017 will be the year of the "cure"! Have a happy one!

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 12/28/2016

Oh forgot to ask about Magnesium! I do take Magnesium! Do you think that is as good as blood thinner? I also take Vitamin E and Fish oil which I hear are blood thinning also! Let me know about Mg! Didn't realize that! That is great! And youre right! Much cheaper.I take liquid Mg so I absorb it well! And there is some in my 'HeartCalm" supplement that I take too! Probably get 600-700 a day I guess!

And Hemo Guard Supreme is there, if you google it!

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 12/30/2016

Oh yes as far as INR I don't believe you can gauge your blood thinning results by this with a supplement. Just as you can't check INR when on Xarelto, Pradaxa, Eliquis As they advertise, no need for bloodwork and coagulation tests with these newer blood thinning drugs! Coumadin(warfarin) is the only one you can get an INR with. The way the others prevent you from clotting is through another coagulative pathway. Not the one that Warfarin uses.And hemoguard works on that different pathway with fibrin, I believe. So there are no ways to check. Which is why some doctors still prefer Coumadin.They always have a "number" to go by! My primary doctor would not put my dad on any of those newer ones and said he wouldn't take either "At least you have a number with coumadin" is how he put it to me. But supplements are a much "gentler" way to thin the blood and not as potent as the pharmaceuticals.Which is something I like! They also are foods that you can eat to thin blood! Check it out! Thanks for that advice! I count on you and Earthclinic to help me decide! You've been nothing short of a "blessing" really! Still don't think it's my heart because none of heart meds work at all! Looking at Thyroid again too!

Replied By Robert Henry (Ten Mile , Tn) on 12/30/2016

HI U PAT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, yep, that's what doctors do. Keep you keeping on with appointments and tests from now to eternity. Have you read of the side effects of rat poison? Your heart problem won't kill you, the rat poison kills you first. Here is what I do and suggest you research........Cartia, Taurine, Nattokinase, Cardiac Px. I got all these from integrative MD's. I hope to get off of all this garbage with my CPAP. Now on my 3 rd device, trying to get a system that works. Smart nuf to know that your organs die when your sleep oxygen hits bottom as mine does. We all got problems, it's just how you address them. ========ORH===========

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 01/03/2017

Pat, you can check your INR levels anytime on or off meds. The new NOACs dont require that and Im not certain they spot test, but they dont "thin" your blood, they prevent Vit K from working to keep your blood from clotting. Not a good thing if you get cut and yes, I only suggest short term for these dangerous meds.

Mag and a few others Robert mentioned along with feverfew tea used for migraines are great. But I would also caution to stay away from certain foods like green leafy and night shades, actually Im not certain on all the foods, but anything that would increase K in your gut to promote clotting.

Ablations advertise that they control afib but in fact ablations are done more often in order for meds to work again, after failing, as most do. I get a kick out those who say they are getting ablated to get off meds. Better chat with your cardio again because you will most likely be on just as many if not more meds after ablation. I know someone that had 5!!! Thats insane.

But, how to fix you is a challenge. I guess you just have to keep searching. Chelation, chemical toxicity, Thyroid, dental issues, gut issues, and on and on it goes for causes. I got better after I got off meds, however the transition was tough, had more episodes than ever. Doc said, yeah its progressive, time for EP. I guess I got part lucky hitting one supplement that seemed to work well with others. I cant imagine ever going back on meds or getting ablated and would have to be very old and at wits end before that happened.

As for apnea, I'm still on the fence. The egg or chicken question for me. I know several with apnea using the mask and only 1 has afib. I think its great to control apnea, but that alone wont control afib, most of the time. On the allopathic site I visit, 70% are ablated, have a sleeping device, are on meds, and many, not all, still battle afib. Not the answer for sure, but leads me to believe tho there could be a connection, it is only a sign of an unknown cause.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 01/03/2017

Yes, Henry I know what the game is with the doctors! Sounds like you've had your fill! You go to ER it sounds like, more often! Is that because they have to cardiovert you? I only went the first time before diagnosis.But I almost always convert pretty quickly with Fleccainide.I started using it to convert again lately.Wasn't for awhile and was taking 3-4 hrs with just rate controlmeds.Its coming more often (2-3 x week) and thats too long and just wearing me out! And to "Kt" I appreciated your point of view on blood thinners! I am nowre-thinking all of that thanks to all of you! I don't "have" to take them till next year according to docs.Just thinking ahead! Hwk, why did you not stay on Warfarin as you said you took for short time? I am afraid of these antiarrythmic drugs but seems to be the one that works for me.Although when I took it everyday in the past, I still got Afib and when it started coming more frequently, I stopped taking it.Didn't see the point! Only had to take more when I went into Afib.Now I just take 100 mgs. when I get Afib.What is "Cartia" Henry?I am looking for an "integrative" cardiologist/doctor but can't find one around here! You know, Afib has been around for a long time before they made it a "diagnosis" and 40 years ago people had it and did not all have strokes! They did not all take blood thinners! That was decided, once again, by Big Pharma! So I was hoping to not take them till I get much older! Has any of you thought about ablation? I am not too keen on that either but never say never! I still take a low dose aspirin 3-4 times a week and sometimes when I get it, I go get a regular(325mg) strength and take it.Just makes me feel better to know I took it.Even though they say aspirin doesn't work for us.I'm not so sure!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 01/04/2017

Pat, I was put on Warfarin as a precaution 7 years ago, after 2 episodes in 2 months. However if a TEE and a CV after a 14 straight day episode showed no pooling or clotting of blood, I figured it was useless for my situation. I never went back on it even when they put me on rate and rhythm control meds a few years later.

If you have persistent afib, ablation is less likely to work. Also, why the rhythm control black box warning med? Why not just control the rate with less risky meds? Aspirin is worthless and also can cause some serious issue including cancer. If it is now off the list as a med that works for our hearts, why take it? Magnesium will most likely do the same for you without any risk. I woke up with a headache Sunday and took Mag throughout the day, finally worked that evening. We all want the quick fix with Aleve or Advil but those two have some ties to afib also.

Replied By Robert Henry (Ten Mile, Tn) on 01/05/2017

HI U GOOD FOLKS,,,,,,,,,,

finally getting accustomed to the sleep mask after the nose only models did not work. I am finally sleeping through the night and feeling far more rested on waking. I had my nose and throat cut out some 20 + years ago but the sleep apnea came back. In a month I go back to the sleep doctor and take the sim card from the breathing device and he can tell how this program is working for me. Amazin. Some things in medicine are working I guess.

Since I am not waking in the night, I am presuming that my heart is not going into A FIB as before. I am still taking my Cartizem and supplements to avoid that ordeal. Too chicken to stop them at this point. I can't say that my Sleep Apnea and AFIB problem is solved, but I can tell folks how to get a clue if they are in deep stuff.

I bought a cheap oxygen-pulse finger device online from Walmart. When I waked in the night I checked my Oxygen level and my pulse. The O2 level will tell you if your breathing is stopping often enough to cause you problems. 93% is bad and 92% is ER time. Your pulse will tell you if this stress is putting your heart into AFIB.

I came to the conclusion that that was my problem and all the expensive medical tests only confirmed my conclusion. I got out of AFIB by chilling out and taking about 5 drops of Cayenne in half a glass of warm water. What was dumb founding to me is that normal folks stop breathing up to 17 times an hour. I stopped 71 times and that's bad, but not real bad.

All my tests and equipment were covered by Medicare, but they are getting smart because that little Sim Card tells them if you are wearing your device at least 4 hours per night and at least 40% of the nights. Otherwise, they take the breathing machine back. Too many people playing games with Gov programs. Their are two sleep machines: one is fixed pressure and the other is variable pressure. The doctor wanted me to do the fixed, but I objected. The variable will only exert the air pressure you require to keep you air passage open and can be changed to a fixed pressure if required, but not vice versa. My doctors learn PDQ that I am not their serf. I usually tell then that I know my God and he is not him.

Hope this ditty has helped some folks address their health problem.

========ORH========

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 01/05/2017

Hope you get some relief, Robert Henry! Sounds like alot of crap! Yes, Hwk, Iam over my "maybe I should get ablation "depression syndrome! I usually come to my senses eventually! Justa little "thing I go through once in a while when I think there is some medical treatment out there that will help me! Silly me! You are right, once you get it they put you on all the meds that I won't take for them now! Then you're at their mercy! I am "managing the beast" as I told them on my last visit! They did not like that! Wanted to know why I wasn't "doing something"? And I only take meds as you do, when I need them for an "Afib episode" No sense in taking them everyday because I still get episodes and figure I'll be taking enough of them doing it this way! I am taking liquid Mg everyday! I also take Taurine and other supplements too! Could very well be a "gut" issue as I have a friend nearby that is a doctor at the Wistar Institute at Penn and that is what she says! She also has Afib but her "gut" issues are much bigger! She claims that any issues bring it on! Has anyone heard of the "healing frequencies"? Some people say they work but I am not consistent with them>I get bored with them! I guess I should be thankful that the meds help to shorten the episodes! As far as the INR you can't measure that just using herbs as blood thinners.They won't change the INR.Only Warfarin will do that! Not even the newer blood thinners will change INR! You can't check on the dosage with those using INR! I don't think I'm going down that road for now! Will just take the herbal one that N.D. gave me or Nattokinase.Meds I take when I get it are enough for now! I really think the world is going to be in for some changes very soon and people are going to find out all the information and technology that was suppressed from us for a long time! There are "healing chambers" out there I've been told! Not that we have access to them.But the chemo for the cancer has been a scam and the new theory of "maintenance chemo" when you are in remission is really a joke! That is just going to kill you! Sad! All in the name of money! No thanks! Just remembered you were going to try D-Ribose? Any luck? I feel like I can't take anything else! Take too much s--t already, my husband says! How much can a person take in 1 day? Gets crazy! And expensive! Henry needs Mg I think! Thing that has helped me feel best is Mg and Taurine! And I hear people complain about no energy from Afib on some websites! I have more energy than I can handle! I think its from supplements! No other symptoms, just when the Afib comes on! Otherwise feel good most all the time! See, I do need to be thankful! But some people don't take any supplements and don't want to! I will keep going with them!

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 01/19/2017

Hey, I didn't know about the Advil and Afib ties! But I did have to go back to 12.5mg of Toprol as my Afib has been out of control and my daughter thought I shouldtry going back on it again.So... I'll try a little along with all my supplements and the weird thing is I went to the doctor with my husband this week and HE has Afib! He just turned 65! Very strange! He has to see cardiologist next month! He was feeling "fatigued and didn't know what was wrong! Thought maybe he needed B12 or had iron deficiency! Dr. did EKG and found it! So now we both have it! He doesn't feel his, though.Just feels the symptoms! I don't get this! What are the chances of that???

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 01/20/2017

Pat, me either, but more the acetaminophen I believe. It's listed as provoking arrhythmias in users, you just won't hear it from doctors.

So, update. I went 2 yrs 1 month and about a week with no episodes until this week. Not horrible. HR never got above 95 and I really hardly knew I was in it. I did some massive dose of supplements with Apple Cider Vinegar with bsm. Unfortunately, I just couldn't stand stopping every 15 min for a bathroom as I was on the road that day working. After 10 hours, I dropped 200mg of flec and 75 min later back to NSR. The flec was almost 3 yrs old, so I had some doubts it was potent enough. So weird to wait and then have it hit you. I was sitting in my car and all of a sudden felt lightheaded, heart paused, a few deep breaths, and out of fib. Odd that I was dealing with PACs/strong HR since Thanksgiving thru Dec. Now, those are gone along with strong HR. Start the timer again.

Gosh Pat if I were you, I'd be looking at the least intrusive ablation. They are doing them now with little radiation. Might be just a minor adjustment. My dentist has silent AF. I think that is more dangerous. Those types are usually on thinners and rate control for life.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 01/21/2017

Yes, I would always be looking at "least intrusive" but I'm still not sold or feeling it yet! If it keeps up as often as it is it may not take me long, though! Sorry you're back to square one with your "counting" again! I always get back there for some reason or another! I am seeing holistic N.D. now and it has gotten to be not as strong or debilitating as it used to be now! So sometimes I "carry on"! Not always though! Will see cardiologist with my husband for his diagnosis and see what he says! Same old same old I'm sure! Maybe it's something in our house that caused us both toget it! Radon? Who knows? Weird! Could just be the toxins we'vw been exposed to all these years I guess! Also doing the "Detox frequencies"!

Replied By James (Nh) on 03/19/2017

Pat, just curious if you have had your adrenals checked? I am checking into that now at the suggestion of ND. Knock on wood for now, but afib has been in check for over a month. Added some Carnitine and liquid fish oil along with getting back on a good Ubinquinol. EP sounded a bit disappointed that I did all this without Metop and Flec. Not to mention his ablation pitch every time.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 04/21/2017

Yes, James, I think I did have some adrenal fatigue but it has gradually gotten better since I was diagnosed Afib and began researching and adding different supplements to my diet. But my Afib got worse! Well not really worse, in some ways better! It doesn't last for as many hours as it did before but episodes are more often.Maybe every other day now! Sometimes everyday! So I can't figure it out! They are really pushing ablation but I'm not sold on that yet! Another cardiologist that I went to ordered some kind of autonomous nervous system function test It seemed like a stupid test but he said that I have disorder which is probably why I can't stand taking the meds since my blood pressure keeps dropping when I sit and then stand or lie down and then stand! Sounds like dehydration to me! He did say I have to drink ALOT of water! I don't drink enough, I know.Never liked to drink much! He is putting me on a different beta blocker "Carvidolol" I think its called and maybe I'll try that although I doubt it will prevent Afib! Beta blockers don't! Even though they tryto tell you they do All they do is lower your heart rate! But irregular beats still persist! Thanks for the tips and appreciate any you can give!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 05/29/2017

Pat, I'm catching up with you. Nothing for 2 years and then wham, 4 in Feb and 4 this month so far. It's taking longer for the flec to convert me back, around 5 hours avg. I did start the adrenal protocol and stopped the T, maybe should have weaned off the T until the DHEA and Cortisol control kicked in. ND says with certainty its my adrenals causing afib. Ablations still sound scary and I don't buy the success rates, fuzzy math if you ask me. To suggest that you will most likely need 1 or 2 more doesnt sound all that successful to me. As long as we both convert and can live our lives without dangerous thinners, I cant see jumping into that fix. Odd that my HR is very low with afib now, around 85 most of the time without Metoprolol. I have a low but irregular HR. How can I be at a risk for stroke if the HR isnt pumping to clot any faster than some normal people?

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 06/08/2017

Hey! Sorry to hear about the rise of the "beast" again! But I was wondering where you were! Interesting that your heart rate is much lower now with it because I have noticed mine is too! Almost to the point where it doesn't bother me that much when an episode comes now! Do you think it could be all the supplements have changed that? Made it slower? You're right though "ablation " is a big gamble in my opinion and it may not even work! So why go through it? I am getting every/everyother day one timeoften in evening and I am down to taking a "piece" of metatoprol and a "piece" of propanolol ( like 12.5 and <10) and it stops it! Haven't needed Flec for a few months! Am taking nattokinase 100mg day for blood thinning along w all the rest of the supps! It has definitely gotten easier to manage! I don't even worry about "getting it" anymore! Just go about my business w the pills in my pocket! Oh and I am taking some potassium once in a while not everyday I think your ND is right.It is the adrenals, but how to fix them? Ativan always helped me too but didn't want to keep upping the dose and get hooked on that either.Just started some"Gaba" this week as it is very calming! Progesterone(natural) cream is too for me! I think hormones are disrupted and involved! From all the toxins! Do you take bete blocker when you get it w the flec? You need to! And for some reason my body responds better to the "cocktail" of a little bit of both! Weird! Such little pieces of each its hard to believe they do "anything" but they do so not complaining! Sometimes it goes away on its own in half hour or so! If not I take them! Neither one of those worked for me before! But I also incresed my Mg intake a little more too! Up to 2 tsp a day (600) plus another 100 in my supps So far no bowel issues.Still soon though! That has always been my problem w that! My husband just had Cardioversion in May for Afib! We"re a real pair! He is good so far! Wasn't bad either! He goes back end of month to get checked.He is on Xarelto too We are playing the "let's see who has a stroke first" game I told him! Him on B thinner, me not! I won't take that stuff! He does whatever the doctors say! I don't! Oh well, More to this than what they say! Hang in there, this too shall pass! It always does! I'll be sending good thoughts! Keep in touch!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 06/11/2017

Pat, you crack me up! What an afib pair that must be! Sounds like youre contagious!! LOL. Mine, once again, just like that has stopped since I posted. Im not certain it is the adrenal supps Im taking or the layoff from a new exercise program I started. I had 4 that month, and none since slowing down. Of course, I will have to test that because I like that Ive dropped 15 lbs in 2 months and toned some areas. It was a hard 30 min cardio and my heart did not like it. If I "feel" off sometimes, I'll drop a 100 mg flec and it straightens out. Only have done that twice tho. Yes, I take 25mg of Metop as advised with Flec but I dont believe I really need it as, my HR never gets past 85 in afib. It slows the rate below my norm and stays too low after I convert.

Good point, maybe its the supps. ND kid gave me some good NOW Potassium 365 mg, Pharma grade is dumb, limits to 99mg. 1 tsp equal to 4000mg will get you back to NSR in a hurry, no danger at all.

For adrenals I take some pretty strong supps. I stopped the T, it was raising Estrogen levels too much and moved to 10 mg DHEA and 2 caps of HPA adapt. At night, "Cortisol manager" and Phosphatidyiserine reduces stress levels. Possible that is working but I will start the workouts again to test.

I have Natto, but really dont feel any danger of clots as, A, Im hardly in Fib, and B. HR never gets past Tachy point.

I have no issue with anyone choosing ablation. It does relieve symptoms and statistically extends life expectancy by a few years. No, its not for me or you, but I wouldnt discourage anyone, its very personal.

Never say never, but I dont see any need for cardio version. Theres so many other ways to convert Ive found, including acupuncture, that I will skip that silly and very expensive procedure. Not to mention, dangerous. Even if you dont convert, theres ways to slow the rate and deal with it and eliminate stroke risk.

Take care and keep seeking. Hawk

Replied By Robert Henry (Ten Mile, Tn) on 06/12/2017

HWKMNO5,,,,,,,,,, are you saying that a heart rate of 85 is AFIB or 85 above your normal?

===ORH===

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 06/12/2017

Robert, No, my normal HR is 60. In afib, I don't go above 85. I have a low, but irregular HR.

Replied By Robert Henry (Ten Mile , Tn) on 06/13/2017

HWKMNO5,,,,,,,,,, partner, 85 is an outstanding heart beat for me and millions of others. You may have an irregular heat beat but I don't think you have A Fib. Try 180 or 200, and then call it A-Fib.

=====ORH======

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 06/15/2017

Oh, it's afib alright. Tachycardia may provoke afib more, but irregular is still afib. If my normal HR is 60 and it increases to 85 to 95 and yours starts at 85 and increases over 100, but are irregular, its the same as yours not increasing to 300. All degrees I think. Now my stroke risk could be less due to a lower rate.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 06/22/2017

Hwk, my heartrate is around 65 normally and probably only goes to 80-90 too! So does that mean my clot risk is less too? I don't understand this! And the doctors won't tell you that!

Replied By KT (Usa) on 06/24/2017

Hi Pat,

I am certain I dissolved a blood clot in my calf with cayenne pepper. I have been able to get used to the hotness and can chug & chase with water.

I am providing a link that includes great information about cayenne pepper and three other spices. In addition I have added another link I hope you find helpful.

http://nstarzone.com/FOURSPICES.html

www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/NaturalFood/Cayenne.aspx#sthash.sg8ZgxSZ.dpuf

I feel if you are in fear of clots, including cayenne pepper on what you eat and in teas will no doubt help.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 07/13/2017

I am pretty sure my afib has some connection to adrenals as well I think it is probably a combination of things as most problems usually are! We like to lump the symptoms into being one diagnosis but usually not the case! Adrenals play a big part hence all the supplemental deficiencies that go along with it! I am 80% better than I was 4 yrs ago when I got diagnosed with afib since I have been treating myself with all of the good supplementals and nutrients! No doubt about it! And none of the heart meds seemed to help my condition at all! I really had to find my own answers to the problem! I understand now that it is just how it is! Would like to find a "good" naturopath in theis area but haven't had much luck! So have to depend on what I research from them on the internet and my own intuition! This website has been a great help to me too! I can't deny how much better I feel since I've been on the hunt for a cure for this! So something is working! So many different things I've added to my regimen though that who would know what worked best? Just keep on going with it all! Hope it works for us all this way! As we keep up the search!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 07/14/2017

Pat, theres no doubt in my mind that afibs root cause is the most grossly misdiagnosed condition. I dont want to speak too soon, but after 3 years with one ND who never bothered to check my cortisol levels and adrenals, I feel as tho I never had afib the last couple of months. This new ND was 2 years out of college and most likely up to date on the latest. So obviously, the EP and Cardio lied to me or were ignorant when they told me the scarring on my left atrium was the cause. Of course there is no way of knowing if you have scarring unless you have an ablation, which causes more scarring!!!

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 08/09/2017

For sure! They have absolutely no idea"WHY" so many of us have this! That is why you can't just jump into whatever they say to do for it! Every one of us probably has a different scenario being the root cause! My cortisol level was very high the first time I had it done at alternative doctor for hormones! I'm sure my adrenals were pretty stressed and that had alot todo with these symptoms! Never really believed in my knower that it was a "heart issue" for me! Somehow just knew! Call it intuition but I didn't buy it! Which is probably why none of the "heart medicines" helped it at all! Just keep on doing good things and supplementing with good vitamins and minerals and giving my body all the tools it needs to heal itself is all I can do! Mystery disease is what I call it and doctors only practice medicine by "Big Pharma" instruction! Too bad! That's what we're stuck with now! Have to use our own"intuition"to heal ourselves! Have you tried the herbs for the adrenal support yet? They did help me! Holy basil, ashwaganda, rhodiola etc? Get a good one and give a try! And I still swear by the Taurine and Heart Calm(magnesium, Coq10 taurine)! They were a great help to me! Trying to get my husband to try these things has been an adventure! He really wants to believe what the docs say but he is slowly coming around as the things they say haven't been much help to him! He is getting there! Have him on Hawthorn and Mg adn a few other supplements so far! Because I took him to an integrative cardiologist that told him OK to take Hawthorn and Mg! He is getting better since he started those! Will get Eccho in October to see if he needs another cardioversion they say! He sayshe would do 1 more That's it! We are both healthier than we were before all of this! Crazy! Hope we all get an answer soon!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 08/09/2017

"Have you tried the herbs for the adrenal support yet? "

Heres what the new ND put me on

DHEA 10mg x2, HPA Adapt, which consists of Basil, Ash, Eleuthero, Rhodoia, and Maca Pure

Night time, Phosphatidylserine, 150 mg x2, and Stress Hormone stabilizer, with Ash, Somniferal, L-Theanine and Magnolia

Hawthorne, Mag, C and the rest I was on kept me NSR for a time, but I always had the PVCs and never felt totally secure. This mix seems to be working, but of course Im always looking for longevity with this condition. Im going into the worst month of the year with my history so we shall see. So far so good.

Have hub check his cortisol levels. Its $120 saliva test and very simple. Yes we are all living healthier now, the benefit of searching for an answer to this condition. Doesnt it drive you crazy to see how others eat, drink, gain weight etc and not have Afib???? Of course they will certainly be in trouble later.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 08/14/2017

Yes it is frustrating to wonder why some of us get this and others who totally abuse their bodies don't! I have a few right in my own family! But whatever the reason, we apparently are here to teach others what to do when these things happen! And to" blow the whistle", so to speak, on Big Pharma and how they really haven't helped the situation but actually make things worse! And how they are not your ONLY option! Anyway it sounds like you found a really good ND who knows what to look for and how to treat it! So that is good! I haven't had such luck! So I just do alot of research on internet and weed through as best I can! What changed in your situation to start up the Afib again I wonder? You were doing so well for some time it seems! I still get a little most everyday mostly at night and it is very much "slower " now and just a little irregular and only lasts about 45 min-1 hr. And I make sure I get up if I'm lying down because it is better if I do and I drink Ice water and a little Himalayan salt in water! I then take whatever I think of which last night was ginger capsule and some Mg (liquid drops) and ate a few mini pretzels and I took 12.5 metatoprolol which is not much, and was OK Went back to bed! I kept drinking ice water with a little lemon while I was sitting up Definitely much better than it was for first fewyears! I would not get any procedure to try and stop it with such light symptoms as these! Isn't worth the risk I don't think. You hang in there and it will get better! Don't cave in to what they say because I believe they have it all wrong! My husband is finding that out now too! They have him on "sotolol" and it is a bad drug too and hasn't gotten him out of Afib so when he goes back in September he is going to tell them he doesn't want to keep taking it.He read up on it and doesn't want to stay on it! Especially when it hasn't fixed anything! Told him he can go back on betablocker only and they are "relatively" safe in the big picture as many people have taken them for blood pressure for years! Told him it is the Hawthorn and the Grapeseed that are healing his heart! Not their drugs! Studies out there to prove this! Ofcourse they aren't interested in that! But we are! Told him to make sure he stays on THEM! And he is! We'll see how his Eccho is in Sept with dr appointment! They are watching his "ejection fracture" that it doesn't go down any further! Grapeseed iworks really well for that! Will let you know! Stay hydrated too! With the heat and all! And himalayan salt for mineral intake!

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 10/09/2017

Hey everyone! I was just giving an update on controlling the Afib! Using the Mg alot and Mg oil spraying seems to be what I need even more than taking Mg! Of course the Hawthorn Grapeseed and CoQ10 VitC and other good supplements helping too! I heard Dr.Sinatra on a program recently say that he recommends CoQ 10 Mg DRibose and LCarnitine so I will get d Ribose and K+L carnitine too! Wondering howyou are doing Hwkmn? Last time you posted things you were in a little 'storm'of Afib! Thats what I call them! I get them every once in a while! When you think it will never stop! But it always does eventually! I have been taking an adrenal support supplement also! That isprobably helping to! Sometimes I think it changes with the seasons! Crazy! My husband went back to Dr. and still in Afib do dr took him off Sotolol Said not helping so little dangerous to take long term for him and ot him back on metapopolol + small dose Cardizem as Metatoprolol wont bring his heart rate down on its own for him! Wants to get it a little lower.Said then he can just stay that wy and its ok with him! He is on Xarelto and doesnt want any more procedures! Dr says ok to do this way! I also have him on Hawthorn and Grapeseed Vit C as I heard the grapeseed really good for the heart "ejection Fracture" that they measure w Echo test.And his actually got better since the last test! And I know its not from the medicine! Prayers to all!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 10/10/2017

Hey Pat, That "storm" ended just before summer and knock on wood, this latest discovery of treating adrenals has been working since late May. It feels like I never had this condition before. I would be shocked to go into afib again, but I know how that can change with our fragile systems. Odd that all the supplements I took before, I take once in a while, Mag, COq, C, D, E, Hawthorne, Carnitine, and a few others. I take 2 adrenal lifters in the am and 2 adrenal decliners at bedtime, and so far, there is zero PVCs and not a hint of Fib. To test this, I reversed the supps one day. That very night, HR was pounding hard and racing like I was going to go into afib. No need to test that again!!

Hope the hub and you can figure it out. We know ablation is not the answer. SO many with bad reports. Take care. Hwk

Replied By Pat (Fanelli) on 10/18/2017

Hey Hawk! Glad to hear the good news! Funny how you feel like you never had it before! That is so true! Which is why I always think it may be gone for good each time! Crazy! I am taking a low dose (12.5) of beta blocker metatoprolol just at night since most of my episodes seem to happen then so I thought I'd try it that way! Little better! Heart not beating as fast or pounding so hard when it comes but didn't get rid of it totally! Not as much of an issue when it comes though so I will stick with that I guess! And taking lots of supplements especially Mg still! I'm ok with how it's going now Taking Nattokinase every other day as blood thinner but not so sure I even need that! Take it because I won't go on xarelto like my husband is! And using it as a “ just in case” type thing But even though our stroke risk is supposed to be higher, doesn't mean”everybody” that has “afib” has a stroke! They don't and I don't think I will! I take pretty good care not to and my overall risk is pretty low I would guess! No ablation for us for sure! Friend of ours just had second one and still not right! Success rate stinks! Would have to be a very desperate last resort kind of decision! I'd rather live with it! And treat it my way! Good luck with the new supplements! Some things work for while then on to the next adventure right? One of these days we'll figure it all out! Stay well! We all have each other, which is a blessing too! Talk soon!

Replied By Maria (Fremont) on 10/25/2017

What are Adrenal lifters? what kind?

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 10/28/2017

DHEA and HPA adapt

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 11/04/2017

Hey I'm wondering if anyone out there takes Nattokinase for blood thinning purposes? I am and just wanted to hear some thoughts on this All that I have read makes me think it is a positive choice since I don't want to take the pharmaceuticals! Not had much luck with anything they have given me for Afib an antibiotics are the only ones that have ever worked for me! And actually wondering now if they really did work or most likely my body healed itself in most cases! Appreciate any feedback!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 01/07/2018

Hey Pat, hows the Natto working out? Just curious how one knows it in fact is working?

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 02/06/2018

Hi Hawk! You're right! How do I know Nattokinase is thinning my blood? Lots of trust and a holistic dr that went along! I also take Gingko and fish oil and VitE which are all excellent blood thinners too! I guess I just believe in them and no faith in Big Pharma meds! Especially blood thinners! I'll be fine I know! Still get the afib episodes 1-2x week though! Just take beta blocker when I get one! And wait it out! My husband is doing the traditional med route Heis doing better than me! But he never really felt his heart rate just knew he didnt feel good! He is on 200 metatoprolol and 120 Cardizem And feels pretty good! I think he needed both beta blocker & calcium channel blocker to get it stopped! We'll see Go back to dr later this month! Oh and takes Xarelto of course! They made him take it! I don't have a dr anymore because I wouldn't take it! They don't want you if you don't comply! I'll just use my primary Dr.Don't need them and their drugs and tests and procedures! Thx anyway!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 02/12/2018

Hey Pat, Thats what I thought. Of course, how do they know X and P thinners are working, they dont test them!! I wont be that guy with blood bruises all over me either. I ll continue the dosage of Natto and hope for the best. So far for me decent report on NSR since last May. I get the occasional thud/pvc feeling now and again, but not as much as I used to. The Cortisol supplements seem to be doing the trick. Funny, all the EPs/Cardio "Experts" have told me the last eight years this condition gets worse with age!! Yeah, if you buy into their med protocol. The meds eventually fail and that gets you to the gold standard of ablation. I like your method and mine, deal with it as it hits you. I ll get tested for mineral levels and the usual, but have no need for the "experts".

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 03/11/2018

Hey, Hawk!

My primary dr who's a little off the cuff even agreed to your statement about the blood thinners! He said he wouldn't take them! Glad you are doing better! Now do you need Cortisol? Is that what he said? I had too much cortisol when first diagnosed! Maybe the cortisol is a factor! Cont know what mine is now! I'm sure it went down though because when it was high I was very anxious and jittery! Not any more and Mg has taken care of that! I'm sure I was deficient! I think it was” Henri” on this website that said he does cayenne pepper drops so I got some and as soon as my heart starts a little off beat I take! They really do stop it! Amazing Better than Toprol sometimes! I'm gonna stick w them! Tried the spice in jar years ago but did nothing! I haven't seen any blogs from him on here If you do please let him know! You stick to your own treatments! They work better than any of doctors! I swear that's why my husband work for him because he really “ believes in the meds” I don't since they never work for me! But he can have them because I told him in the long run they're not good for him and will cause more problems! He knows For now it's all good!

Replied By Chicki (Va) on 03/18/2018

Having a recent diagnoses of afib is all the more concerning because of the prescribed drug eliquis which will hopefully prevent a possible stroke but disappointingly not stop the afib. I am very encouraged by the conversations that offers ways to help stop the afib. I will be trying the magnesium and hawtorne as well as some cayenne extract along with a continued somewhat vegan diet which has delightfully brought about some weight loss.

Has anyone taken the eliquis drug? I am concerned about side effects and any missed doses could cause the stroke it is suppose to prevent

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 10/13/2018
Hi Chicki! Sorry to hear your story but have faith! And don't let the medical community scare you to death as they usually try to do! My husband & myself both were diagnosed w Afib ( few years apart) and he goes the traditional medicine way which includes taking Xarelto( blood thinner) and also all of the supplements I have him on( specially for afib) and I stopped w doctors & do my own thing and radiologists were pleasantly surprised how well he is considering how bad his was! He also had cardioversion 1x which did not work! Stick w earth clinic and take your supplements even if you decide to do traditional medicine route! And be sure and take “grape seed extract” for your heart and arteries! I also take Nattokinase as a natural blood thinner! Mine has gotten better with time(not worse as they said) and so has his! His “echo ejection fracture” has gottemuch better too ( thanks to the grape seed& Hawthorn& COQ10) He now says he will not do anymore”procedures” they offer him (as most do not work) and he had such good visit recently that he is willing(as I suggested to him) to cut back on large amount of beta blocker they have had him on! It doesn't change it so why take those large amounts? Afib still there!

Replied By T. Mathews (Okc, Ok) on 04/23/2018

My mother has been suffering with this, and this past year has had several severe attacks, sending her to the ER. We have learned that the AFib itself may not kill you, but the risk of a Stroke is 6% higher every year from it's onset. This condition sets you up for a stroke. Which has happened to her neighbor who was 40 and had to get brain surgery because of it. It's more serious than people are being told.

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 04/25/2018

Hi Chicki, sorry to hear that youve joined our club of afibbers. Thats a difficult choice for most with afib. You do owe it to yourself to research all the non tested and tested anti coags thoroughly and not rely on any opinions from blogs or even medically. Most of the Meds we are prescribed for this condition are "Black Box warning" meds, so do your homework please.

Personally, I did a tested anti coag, Coumadin, for about 3 months. I would NEVER do a non tested such as Eliqus or Pradaxa. That was 8 years ago and yes, I've gotten older and without all meds, my afib has gotten better, not worse as I was warned. Sure we have a higher risk of stroke, but taking anti coags puts us at a much higher risk for a whole lot of other serious events such as brain bleeds, bleeding to death from a wound, organ failure and many more serious events.

Pat, my afib friend here, makes a great point. If you are not in afib all the time, where is the risk of stroke, or why is it any worse than non afibbers?

Here's the real kicker, taking anti coags reduces your stroke risk an average of 1.75%. You really need to look into the fuzzy math that Pharma uses. Take the Flu shot method for risk percentages. Pharma states that if you take the Flu shot, you have a 52% better chance than if you don't. But looking at real stats, here's how they arrive at that number. If you get the flu shot you have a 98% chance of not getting the flu. But if you don't get the shot, you have a 96% chance of not getting it. So out of the 4% that get the flu, 2% more, or 50% more will get the flu. Phuzzy Pharma math. Same deal with Anti coags. The Framingham heart study is a good place to start, but has some ambiguity as most studies do.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 04/26/2018

Hi! You are right “Hwk” Our (afibbers) risk of a stroke is 3-5% higher than a person without afib! That is much smaller than pharmaceuticals want you to think! And they tell the doctors so too! Your risk of side effects from the blood thinning drug is probably close to that! Everyone with afib does not have a stroke! I evaluate my own risk from my lifestyle and how I take care of my body! I prefer not to take one! Although I do take other natural blood thinning supplements like Nattokinase, fish oil, and VitE And as little of the other prescribed meds as possible( metatoprolo12.5) it is a personal decision! But Pharma companies always make statistics work in their favor! So do your own research

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 05/27/2018

Hey Hwk, how much Hawthorn did u take when afib episode? Did u say 1000 mg I think? I think this toprol makes it worse believe it or not! I'm going back to taking H. When I get! And Taurine! And maybe carnitine and Mg They work better I just think I didn't take “enough” H. It is calmer with those than with beta blockers I don't know why I started back with it! Guess I thought it would take care of it but of course it doesn't! Ugh! And I get an episode most everyday too! Sometimes keeps me up all night! Hard to ignore and sleep through. Maybe should try the adrenal approach too. Sounded logical to me when I started with all this! Or thyroid! Subclinical because myTSH etc were in range supposedly! Still suspicious though.

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 05/29/2018
Hey Pat, that's not good news. Its' been so long since I did H, Im not certain. I don't believe that worked for long for me though. I think I took 1000 mg twice daily. Now, I don't take any Mag, Potass, H, Cartinine, Fish oil, and Taurine occasionally.

You have got to get out of afib somehow, not good to be in it every day. They are learning it can seriously enlarge our left atrium and create fibrosis in our heart tissue. I know you dont want to hear the A word, but if I was in it that much and nothing was working, a trip to Austin would be in order. If you are on FB, https://www.facebook.com/groups/572578372883813/

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 06/02/2018
Hey Hawk! I guess I may have to bite the bull it & go back to doctors again! Maybe the A word I don't want to hear is what I'll hear! Haven't seen a doctor for about 18 mos now but maybe should make an appt! Give it another shot but I really dont want to take thosemeds! They don't help me and I feel awful on them! I'll see! Thought maybe it would just go away on its own eventually! So annoying! Or they'll want me to take that other medicine you have to be admitted to hospital to go on! I think there are people that have it daily even when they are on the meds! Don't know that it necessarily enlarges the atrium in everyone! I don't have it 24-7 and some people do! I think I've had a lot of protection from all the good supplements I've been taking too! Not so sure about that theory! Will let you know!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 06/04/2018
Pat, I would have no problem going that route. Yes, it is a fact that staying in AF for any length of time over a long period of time will have that negative effect on our hearts. We can always take good supplements, and most ablated do, after the procedure. Heres an interesting story from one patient who tried supplements for a long time before going with the only EP I would trust with RF only, not the Cryo ablation. http://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,142636,142636#msg-142636

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 10/13/2018
Hey Hawk! Just thought I'd update! Not much change of course! Primary put me on different beta blocker that he takes himself! Called “Bystolic” He said not all the complaints of the others headache, fatigue, etc so I tried lowest dose 5mg Gave me fatigue& headache so cut back to 2.5 twice a day and am able to tolerate better.Helps a little I think Not as many episodes and doesn't last as long so I'll stick it out for awhile Still don't use blood thinnerRather take Nattokinase especially since I really don't tolerate drugs very well it seems! Supplements I can! Are you still on adrenal supplements to control yours? And how is it going with those? Did that stop it for you? Or lessen I should say? I guess this is just life with afib! There are no cures out there! Don't want ablation because success rate not great there either! I think there will be a supplement to cure most everything eventually! Maybe now! Just haven't found out yet! So many out there!

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 09/22/2018

Hey Hawk! Just thought I'd update! Not much change of course! Primary put me on different beta blocker that he takes himself! Called “Bystolic” He said not all the complaints of the others headache, fatigue, etc so I tried lowest dose 5mg Gave me fatigue& headache so cut back to 2.5 twice a day and am able to tolerate better.Helps a little I think Not as many episodes and doesn't last as long so I'll stick it out for awhile Still don't use blood thinnerRather take Nattokinase especially since I really don't tolerate drugs very well it seems! Supplements I can! Are you still on adrenal supplements to control yours? And how is it going with those? Did that stop it for you? Or lessen I should say? I guess this is just life with afib! There are no cures out there! Don't want ablation because success rate not great there either! I think there will be a supplement to cure most everything eventually! Maybe now! Just haven't found out yet! So many out there!

Replied By Hwkmn05 (Nh) on 09/24/2018

Hey Pat, good to hear from you. That sounds promising. No there is no cure for this, only controls. Ive done quite well with only one short episode in 16 months. I have cut back on the adrenal support and only take the DHEA with Natto, Mag and Vit C., which aid in adrenal control themselves. Ablation success depends greatly on who is doing the ablating. I would take a trip to the guy in Austin who takes on the most complicated patients with amazing results, over a lifetime of meds if it ever came to that. Pushing 65, I dont have the resiliency for even small amounts of black box warning meds. Of course before that, there is much one can do to take control of their own health. Not drinking alcohol for over 2 years may have been the most beneficial for my overall health. Latest studies are showing even moderate drinking, which I doubt most are, can impact our hearts negatively. Im sure it depletes minerals such as Magnesium which are vital to heart health. If nothing else, it eliminates one more vice we dont need.

Replied By Pat (Pa) on 10/10/2018

Hi! I am definitely making great strides with mine also! Not sure what has me on right track now but few things I added to my regimen. One was L-Carnitine w COQ10 since Dr Sinatra recommended these w Mg which I have already been taking and I read an article that said afib is a “ micronutrient deficiency” which sounded right to me so I started an organic green powder drink w 50 superfoods! Take everyday and I also started Turmeric everyday!

Unbelievable! Don't know what happened but something worked! Only took me 6 yrs to hit on! Always knew it was a vit/ mineral deficiency! Oh and I started a multi vitamin w “chelates minerals & iron” Could b that? Don't know but I am thrilled! Still take all my other supplements including Nattokinase! Good news is because it took me so long I'm healthier than ever from all those great supplements I've been on for years!! And staying on! Have a new grandson & I even offered to babysit 1 day/ week! So blessed that I can now! Never give up! Listen to your inner voice is what I did! Never let the medical community scare you with their morbid diagnoses I knew they were all wrong with me! Earth Clinic gave me the confidence to believe! Forever grateful!

Replied By Mama To Many (Tn) on 10/13/2018

Dear Pat,

You have a great attitude and I appreciate your optimism and the hope with which you encourage others.

Thanks for all you have shared on your journey.

~Mama to Many~

Replied By Gee (Ontario ) on 04/29/2022

I get AFiB once in a while and see it's always after eating. Also, I think your bed may be a cause, some beds use food to sit in your stomach producing gas that distends the stomach and acts on the vagus nerve. Not eating after a certain time in the evening helps and a bed that keeps you flat helps digestion also helps.

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