Deirdre (NC) on 04/11/2023

I always had a sneaking suspicion I was not getting enough deep sleep at night, but it wasn't until I got a smartwatch recently that I saw how shockingly little I get in the deep sleep cycle each night. While the recommended range for adults in my age group is 1.75 to 2.25 hours of deep sleep each night, I was averaging 13 minutes up to 28 minutes the past 6 nights.

I started my smartwatch sleep monitoring without any usual Magnesium or Melatonin for the first couple of nights and my deep sleep average was a dismal 13 to 17 minutes. Once I added magnesium, it went up about 10 minutes. Last night I took 40 mg of melatonin (my usual dose when I take it) and my deep sleep total amount went up to 47 minutes last night. Woo hoo! Still under but better. I'll report back as I experiment more with supplements, herbs and exercise. I highly recommend a smartwatch if you're interested in how much deep, core, and REM sleep you're getting each night. Very interesting.

And a big thanks to Art for all of his articles on melatonin. I never would have experimented with higher doses, had it not been for all of his research and postings!

Replied By Carla (California) on 11/03/2023

About melatonin for sleep...i have tried 5mg before bed, but no change. I saw you mention higher dosage. I am 76 and do not get more than 5 hours of sleep. I am tired. Sluggish and depressed. I would like to try the higher dosage. What would you recommend? And should I add other supplements?

Replied By Art (California) on 04/12/2023

Sam,

I just read the link from the neurosurgeon's take on melatonin and he is partially correct, but the most important thing he didn't say was that melatonin levels decline with age and reach a very low level by age 45, right when age-related diseases start to increase. He also didn't mention that melatonin is produced in the gut at a rate that is estimated to be 400 times the amount produced by the pineal gland. This production of melatonin in the gut helps maintain the health of the gut microbiome, but with the age-related decline of melatonin, gut health suffers and this becomes very apparent around age 50. Melatonin is produced throughout the body and the body has melatonin receptors throughout.

Supplementing melatonin can help compensate for this age-related decline and help to maintain our health well beyond age 50. He is only looking at one part of the puzzle and is not seeing the larger picture. Declining melatonin levels is in no way healthy for us. Ignoring that fact by saying the body makes enough melatonin on its own is just foolish and detrimental to our health.

Art

Replied By Marcia (IL) on 04/21/2023

Sam in Miami.. Did you ever have a flu vax or any other & then had sleeping issues? I provided cpaps & bipaps to patients for many years. While talking with the patients, I observed that most of the Central Sleep Apnea patients were regularity getting vaccinated. Sad to say, most doctors do not understand the difference between Obstructive Sleep Apnea (OSA) & Central Sleep Apnea.

Replied By Art (California) on 04/12/2023

Sam,

In your first study(2009) people were given melatonin at a time when melatonin would not normally be present in significant amounts in the eyes. Melatonin should mainly be taken at night except for serious diseases such as Covid-19 or late stage cancer. Also the study only had 12 participants and since it was an RCT only 6 participants got melatonin. It is hard to draw meaningful conclusions from such a small study.

Melatonin has protective effects on the eyes when taken at night when its presence in the eyes is normal. The following study(2016) discusses what melatonin does in the eyes to help prevent age related macular degeneration :

Here is a relevant study quote :

' Melatonin behaves like synthetic mitochondria-targeted antioxidants, which concentrate in mitochondria at relatively high levels; thus, melatonin may prevent mitochondrial damage in AMD. The retina contains telomerase, an enzyme implicated in maintaining the length of telomeres, and oxidative stress inhibits telomere synthesis, while melatonin overcomes this effect. These features support considering melatonin as a preventive and therapeutic agent in the treatment of AMD. '

Your second study (1992) is an animal study that again gave the animals melatonin during a time when the pineal gland would not be excreting melatonin into the system and then they exposed the rats to high intensity lighting for 24 hours straight to induce photodamage and then they returned the rats to normal light cycling, before killing and removing their eyes for examination. I'm not sure what the point of this study was because these are not real life conditions that humans would likely ever be exposed to except possibly under torture, but it certainly does not prove that melatonin taken under normal conditions is deleterious to the eyes by any stretch of the imagination.

Normally light exposure suppresses melatonin production and excretion by the pineal gland so the eyes would not normally have significant amounts of melatonin during the day. On the other hand suppression of melatonin at night from artificial night lighting is unhealthful as discussed here :

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/blue-light-has-a-dark-side#:~:text=Exposure to light suppresses the, circadian rhythm and melatonin secretion.

Here is a relevant quote :

' Exposure to light suppresses the secretion of melatonin, a hormone that influences circadian rhythms. Even dim light can interfere with a person's circadian rhythm and melatonin secretion. '

I am not aware of any studies that prove that long term exposure to melatonin is bad for our health and on the contrary there are many studies suggesting that long term use of melatonin implies multiple health benefits as melatonin is protective of most major organs in the body, including the eyes and helps to prevent or treat cardiovascular disease.

There are over 31,000 melatonin studies on just PubMed alone and I don't think they continue to do an ever increasing number of melatonin studies because it is bad for our health, on the contrary they continue to research melatonin because of its multiple health effects throughout the body. I have read hundreds of melatonin studies and melatonin is clearly very good for our health. That is why I have taken high dose melatonin for over a decade.

Art

Replied By Wendy (Canada ) on 04/21/2023

I too have taken Melatonin for just about 20 years.

I read a book on it many years ago with all the studies and found nothing bad about it. I sleep well with it. I take 3 mg every night. ( 7 hour sleep and refreshed in the morning).

Replied By David (Vancouver) on 05/21/2023

Art, just want to thank you for the effort in critiquing the studies cited.

Too many times research papers, even "peer reviewed" RCTs, reach conclusions not worthy of citing due to a plethora of issues calling into question the validity of the research. John Ioannidis took a deep look at this subject circa 2005. For anyone interested, here is a link to that paper.

Why Most Published Research Findings Are False

John P. A. Ioannidis

https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124
https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124

Replied By Art (California) on 04/13/2023

Thank you for the recommendation, Madelyn!

I have not read the book, but I will look for it.

Art

Replied By Annie (Washington) on 01/24/2024

I've tried a number of brands, and found Mercola's Magnesium L-Threonate to be the best, and it's easy on the gut.

Replied By Deirdre (NC) on 04/22/2023

Thanks, David. Those are good points, but I had sleeping issues for a few years before I started wearing an Apple watch two weeks ago. I used the smartwatch for about 10 days, gathered sleep data, made a few changes that have helped (such as no caffeine in the afternoon), and now no longer wear it at night as I have a good idea of the quality of my sleep. It was incredibly helpful, though, I must say.

Here's an article from Apple's legal on their 42mm watch RF exposure information: https://www.apple.com/legal/rfexposure/watch1,2/en/.

If you turn a smartwatch to Airplane mode when you sleep (which will disconnect it from Wifi and BlueTooth), you won't get radiation. One can always test RF with an inexpensive Dr. Gauss meter if curious about the RF levels from a watch too.

Replied By Art (California) on 05/22/2023

Thank you for the relevant feedback, David!

It is unfortunate about the politics and money involved in studies, but that is the world we live in. I am always excited about supplements that fair well in meta analysis and multi study reviews, because that is not an easy feat for supplements to achieve. Study quality is frequently an issue.

Melatonin is one supplement that generally fairs well under such increased scrutiny and is just one of the reasons why I like melatonin as much as I do.

Art

Replied By Art (California) on 11/03/2023

Carla,

It has been my experience that melatonin does not work for everyone for the purpose of improving sleep. In the people it does help, 5 mg would show benefit of some sort, but you got no benefit at all and that suggests that a higher dose is not going to be helpful for sleep.

Art

Replied By Art (California) on 11/03/2023

Carla,

I forgot to answer the other part of your question, other possible supplements for sleep.

You might consider a multi supplement sleep aid such as this one :

https://www.amazon.com/MidNite-Drug-free-Chewable-Supplement-Melatonin/dp/B00I9HGMV2/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Read some of the 3, 982 reviews by people who have used it and see what you think. Based on the number of reviews as well as the number of positive reviews this is one of the better options available for sleep.

Art