Bob (Murphy, Nc) on 01/19/2017
I've been working with, and researching, chlorine dioxide for two years. I've made my own batches of nearly 100%, using a different formula. There are more than eight formulas to make chlorine dioxide. I have the Genesis II Church member card. I'm not anti-MMS. Jim Humble is a great humanitarian, and must have been a good NASA engineer. However, his chemistry is bad, which he has said in his book. And his understanding of body biochemistry is completely wrong. My main purpose, for this paper, is to correct his mistakes.
The medical establishment's attack, against MMS, is based on a simplistic, uninformed, negative, buzz word slander. Clorox bleach is not labeled with the skull poison symbol. Like many products, it has warnings. And the warnings are exaggerated, as usual. For instance, it warns of burns to the skin. Hah, I've had bleach on my hands many times. It feels slimy, but doesn't cause a burn. They also use the word "industrial" bleach. "Industrial" makes it sound bad. Supermarket packaged foods are made in a factory. It's an industry. There's nothing bad about being industrial. Sodium chlorite and chlorine dioxide are in the general category of "bleach". That's good if you want to disinfect. And chlorine dioxide is used, for instance in municipal water supplies, because it is the safest one. As I will cover later, bleach oxidizers can do damage. So concentrations must be low. I'm experienced enough to be aware of the inner works of some groups, especially ones like the FDA. The whole attack, on MMS, may possibly be traced to one man, Mr. Mizer in the US Dept. of Justice, since everyone is repeating his slander, about bleach. There's a cadre of such people who hate Christianity, and so can't stand medical people using the words "cure" or "miracle". For sure, the attack is uninformed, and so it is illegitimate.
To begin correcting Jim's mistaken ideas about chemistry, chlorine dioxide is not an ion. It does not have a charge. It is a molecule. Molecules do not have a charge. Chlorine dioxide is unusual, in that it doesn't dissolve, ionize, in water. Body cells are a complex structure of many molecules. They do not have a charge. So chlorine dioxide is not repelled by body cells, and it is not attracted to only bad bacteria. Bacteria are cells, and so do not have a charge. The Gram Stain is not a positive or negative charge. The positive and negative means yes or no for the bacteria becoming stained with a dye. Chlorine dioxide is a free radical, meaning it has an unfilled electron space. This is how it oxidizes. When reacting with organic molecules, chlorine dioxide usually functions as a highly selective oxidant due to its unique, one-electron transfer mechanism where it is reduced back to the chlorite ion. When oxidizing some inorganics, like ferric oxide, it can accept a total of five electrons, which would break it down to a chloride ion, as in salt, and two oxygen ions. Jim's claim that electron shells hold atoms together, and that the nucleus would fly apart if the electrons are drawn away, is false. It takes a high-powered atom smasher to do that.
Chlorine dioxide is said to work differently on different pathogens. Bacteria, fungi, parasite and tumor cells are vulnerable to oxidants because of these components; thiols, polyamines, purines, amino acids with thiols, phenols, and amines [Dr. Thomas Hesselink's paper about malaria]. The method of chlorine dioxide bacterial kill, at low ppm concentration, seems to occur by the disruption of protein synthesis and enzyme inactivation. This is similar to the non-toxic mechanism of some common antibiotics. It does not blow a hole in cell walls. It acts on good as well as bad bacteria, so probiotics should be taken after treatment is finished. Oxidation of RNA and DNA do not appear to take place, or are at least unimportant in the process. The site of action lies in the soluble fraction of the cell and there appears to be no damage to internal structural components such as ribosomes. At high ppm, the method of rapid bacterial and viral kill appears to be the softening and destroying of the cell wall, or viral capsid. Chlorine dioxide is known to react with iron and manganese compounds, sulfur bonds, and colors. Chlorine dioxide can definitely hurt body tissue, as well as pathogens. It kills algae, parasite organisms, and some insect eggs or larvae, such as mosquitoes. If the concentration is high enough, it can kill zebra mussels and some fish, such as trout (the lethal LC50 for rainbow trout is 290 ppm for 96 hours). Since I believed Jim's harmlessness claim, at first, I took massive doses of pure chlorine dioxide, and inhaled full breaths of it. Once, my lungs hurt for three days afterwards. And massive doses caused my ears to ring, probably damaging sensitive inner ear nerve hairs. So doses should be kept small, and luckily chlorine dioxide works with the lowest doses, compared to other disinfectants. There are many institutional papers assessing the toxicity of chlorine dioxide, sodium chlorite and chlorate. The main problem area is red blood cells. With prolonged, higher dose (up to 1000 ppm for chlorine dioxide, and 100 ppm for chlorite and chlorate) daily use in rat's drinking water, for 1-2 months, some hemoglobin can be oxidized to methemoglobin which doesn't carry oxygen. Also, red blood cell count can decrease. Chlorate (ClO3-), which can rupture RBCs, is the worst with serious RBC loss after nine months. There is a claim that some chlorate can be produced in MMS reactions, such as with pH less than 3, and some chemical studies claim chlorine dioxide can change into some chlorate in water. Red blood cells have glutathione to protect them from oxidation, but cell levels can be decreased with prolonged treatment. Other studies show no methemoglobin at these dose levels. There is a reference stating that there's an enzyme that reduces methemoglobin back to normal hemoglobin. One study with low dose, single dose, pure chlorine dioxide using people, showed no problems at 0.34 mg/kg of body weight. In these studies, the doses of sodium chlorite and chlorate were only 1/10th of the amount of chlorine dioxide, evidently for safety reasons, meaning they considered chlorine dioxide much safer. Different studies have found the following safe levels of chlorine dioxide in all of the drinking water, per day: 15 mg/kg in mice for 1 month; 9 mg/kg in green monkeys for 1-2 months; 2 mg/kg in Sprague-Dawley rats for 3 months. At higher doses there could be some nasal irritation from chlorine dioxide gas evaporating at the drinking tube. Effect on newborn rat pups: decreased pup development, decreased thyroid hormone levels (thyroid hormones T3 and T4 are phenols), and decreased brain cell count, were found at 14 mg/kg of body weight per day in drinking water for the mother rats during gestation and lactation. Dosing below 14 mg/kg had no observed effect, such as in a 3 mg/kg test. I don't think anyone should take maintenance doses for years, especially with so much sodium chlorite in the MMS mix. And doses should be in mg/kg or /pound of body weight, not in drops. Also, Jim is wrong about MMS lasting only one hour in the body. Rat studies show that 100% chlorine dioxide, not the MMS mix, reaches peak blood level in 2 hours, with half absorbed in 3.5 hours. The leftover sodium chlorite, in the MMS mix, reaches peak blood level in 8 hours. 21% of it is still in the blood after 72 hours. So dosing every hour is not a good idea. Studies use one dose per day. There probably hasn't been much research about the effect of chlorite and chlorine dioxide on prescription drugs in the body, but oxidizers are one thing used by illegal drug users to nullify drugs in their urine test. So they probably can affect some prescription drugs in the body. For myself, I would only take low dose pure chlorine dioxide, such as chlorine dioxide solution (CDS), or the new MMS1 tablets in a glass of water [do not swallow the tablet]. The tablets use sodium hydrogen sulfate as the activator, which produces near 100% ClO2. Precautions must be employed in people with glucose-6-phosphate-dehydrogenase deficiency disease, as they are especially sensitive to oxidants of all kinds.
As chlorine dioxide is a free radical, antioxidants will quench it back into a chlorite ion. This happens with many antioxidants; Vit. E, Vit. A, CoQ10, flavonoids, Beta-carotene, Lycopene, Lutein, etc., not only vitamin C. So no antioxidant supplements, or natural juices or foods should be consumed with chlorine dioxide. Lemon, or lime juice, has vitamin C and other antioxidants, so are not good to mix with chlorine dioxide. Jim is partially correct about ascorbic acid. Ascorbic acid, if used at less than about a ratio of 2 moles ascorbic acid to 1 mole chlorite ion, would end up forming ClO2, because it's an acid. For no ClO2 to form, the reaction requires more than approximately 2 moles of ascorbic acid per mole of chlorite ion. In terms of ppm, it takes about 5.2 ppm ascorbic acid to destroy 1 ppm of chlorite ion. In fact, ascorbic acid produces about four times as much ClO2 as citric (see table below), the most in the short list.
Organic Acid Activation of Chlorite
Acid .... gm .. ClO2
Tartaric 0.64 239
Oxalic 0.53 628
Adipic 0.79 73
Citric 0.77 192
Itaconic 0.72 105
Ascorbic 0.68 >770
While I'm at it, the public should not be told to mix their own chemistry experiments. People don't follow orders exactly, make changes, and aren't professional enough to calculate the exact molecular weights of the reactants, and balance the formula. People need to buy a professionally made product.
Jim believes that MMS gets completely changed into chlorine dioxide in the stomach, if you swallow it. This is no more true than what happens when activating MMS in a glass beaker. There is only a small continuous basal secretion of gastric acid, on an empty stomach, of usually less than 10 mEq/hour. It takes food to stimulate the secretion of gastric fluid, and then the HCl is only 0.5 to 1% of it. And acidifying sodium chlorite does not produce chlorine dioxide as the first step. It produces chlorous acid, HClO2. [HCl + NaClO2 = HClO2 + NaCl] HClO2 is unstable, and breaks down into chlorine dioxide and hydrochloric acid. [5 HClO2 decomposes to 4 ClO2 + HCl + 2 H2O] Furthermore, at a pH in the range of 2.3 - 3.2, only about 30% chlorous acid is produced from the acidification. That leaves about 70% leftover sodium chlorite.
Citric acid is a weak acid, and only produces about 10% chlorine dioxide. And citric acid can have the taste problem. Luckily, the leftover sodium chlorite is also a disinfectant, although it is much harsher than chlorine dioxide, and not as selective. With exact concentrations and conditions, HCl can produce nearly 100% chlorine dioxide. Also, the acidification of 1.3M sodium chlorite with 10% acetic acid yielded almost entirely chlorine dioxide as the major product of the disproportionation. Acidified Sodium Chlorite is used by many food processing companies, and the short-lived chlorous acid is also a disinfectant.
Sodium chlorite is a different animal. I have brushed my teeth with less than one ounce of 80% sodium chlorite solution. Afterwards, one corner of my lips hurt, and my gums were red and sore, with a small amount of bleeding when brushed. This took several days to heal. A single dose of 105 mg/kg weight will kill half of rats tested. That's called the LD50, lethal dose. For a 150 lb person, that's a little over 7 grams. In another test, with cats, a single dose of 1.5 mg/kg caused as much as 32% methemoglobin. That's losing about 1/3 of your blood oxygen supply. This loss does reverse back into normal hemoglobin over time. A 90 day study on rats found a No Adverse Effect Level at 1 mg/kg. Another 13 week study found very serious consequences at the highest doses; death, increased spleen and adrenal weights, ulceration, chronic inflammation and edema in the stomach. In a 90 day study, red blood cell glutathione levels, in a high dose group, were 40% below those of controls. MMS with citric acid has about 90% sodium chlorite leftover. So it's safer to use only chlorine dioxide alone.
Under some circumstances, calcium hypochlorite, MMS2, solutions can decompose to form some chlorate. In water it reacts to form hypochlorous acid and calcium hydroxide. This is the same chemistry as Clorox, sodium hypochlorite. The hydroxide part is caustic. It eats into body tissue. It's well known that these pool chemicals can irritate the eyes, if you swim a long time. He notes that hypochlorous acid is formed in the body. Yes. However it is formed inside white blood cells when they find an invading micro-organism, and only then. So it works only on the invader. Normal mammalian body cells, as well as bacteria, do not have a catalytically active detoxifying mechanism for it. So the hypochlorous acid can destroy body tissue as well as invaders. And ingesting it puts it in your bloodstream and body. Also, it's not as effective as chlorine dioxide. So it offers nothing new. No one should ingest MMS2, calcium hypochlorite, in any way. Swallowing a capsule containing solid calcium hypochlorite must surely "burn" the stomach. Also, calcium hypochlorite reacts with hydrochloric acid, stomach acid, to produce chlorine gas. Chlorine gas is the worst of all types of chlorine compounds. Here's a quote from one of Jim's books: "Actually my friend next door in the Nevada desert, Bill Boynton, came over one day and said that calcium hypochlorite killed germs in swimming pools and it might just be another MMS. He suggested that we try taking small amounts and see what happens. I figured if he was game to do it, I was too. We made up some gel capsules with calcium hypochlorite in them and started taking them and when they didn't kill us, we had some friends take them.... I decided to use the gel caps and started sending it out to people in the gel cap form. It's something a doctor could never do. He has the Hippocratic Oath and AMA and FDA looking over his shoulder. But I am an inventor and never took that oath." p.112.
Stabilized Oxygen, as sodium chlorite, is known by some people as a biocide for killing parasites. And at first, this is what Jim used, alone, to cure malaria. It's not clear who started selling Stabilized Oxygen, or why the mistaken name was used. It goes back far enough that the ingredient was not listed, leading to confusion. In 1929, Dr. Mois de Guevarra was selling a dry powder named "stabilized oxygen". In 1971, Dr. La Mar was the first to use a solution with "stabilized oxygen" to increase blood oxygen level. Evidently, it's unknown if either of these was sodium chlorite. E.D. Goodloe, 1971, sold "aerobic stabilized oxygen", produced in a 2-month-long production process in 14 stages. The oxygen is in association with sodium chloride, not sodium chlorite. Sodium chlorite could be used alone, as long as doses are below the vomiting threshold. Making up a new name, for Stabilized Oxygen (sodium chlorite), is what commercial companies do to sell a product. And changing the wording, of MMS, only causes confusion. Health newsletters simply use the names of the chemicals.
Getting sick, with Jim's method, is not a herxheimer reaction. The herxheimer reaction (Jarrisch and Herxheimer) is a phenomena originally observed in the treatment of syphilis. In general terms, it is described as a temporary increase of symptoms when antibiotics are administered. This effect happens with only a few diseases. Similar reactions have been found to occur in two kinds of borreliosis (Lyme disease and relapsing fever), brucellosis, Q fever, and trypanosomiasis. Herxheimer can occur within days to weeks after the onset of antibiotic therapy. The most common effects include: increased joint or muscle pain, headaches, chills, fever (usually low-grade), drop in blood pressure, hives and rash. Lyme is the main one, now, to have this problem. The extremely large doses of pure chlorine dioxide, that I took, caused no nausea, vomiting or diarrhea. In fact I felt high until the next morning. I've also swallowed a half eye-dropper of the 80% liquid sodium chlorite alone in water. It caused a vomit stomach spasm reaction within 30 minutes. Chlorous acid is evidently the one that causes liquid diarrhea. I got that with my first use of MMS with lime juice. The vomiting and diarrhea are the body's attempt to get rid of what you ingested. They are not a die-off or Herxheimer effect.
We owe Jim for making this subject public, and his other work. But I discovered, from being on the Genesis II Church Forum, that everyone was extremely closed minded about saying anything that disagreed with Jim. They ban people who disagree with anything, even a chemist. I was banned for trying to explain some of Jim's mistakes. I don't like to criticize people, but by telling people that he was the first to wire something for NASA, and worked on nuclear bombs, and so on, he's created an atmosphere that he is perfect, and knows more. That's the kind of problem in cults. Chlorine dioxide, and acidified sodium chlorite, are not new. There's been plenty of official health research, and patents, long before Jim found that "stabilized oxygen" (sodium chlorite) kills the malaria parasite. And some of his protocols may have too much sodium chlorite per day. He's so unprofessional that he doesn't give dosages per pound of weight of the patient. Obviously Jim has done no stomach sample tests, or blood tests to prove his claims. Chlorine dioxide has been said, by a chemist society, to be the best anti-pathogen. But do your own research. I'm not trying to scare you away from MMS. As long as you stay within the No Adverse Effect Levels, it's usable. If I had a deadly disease, I would use it even at somewhat damaging levels.
For recommended dose levels of the sodium chlorite part, see Dr. Hesselink's table below. One benefit of these chlorine oxidants is that, in low doses, they can stimulate white blood cells to produce cytokines which stimulate other white blood cells, activating the immune system. There's a great Patent, from 1990's work, with very exacting biochemical research. The test studies showed that sodium chlorite alone is successful at treating autoimmune diseases, which may include some diabetes-1, Parkinson, MS, ALS, etc. [Use of a chemically-stabilized chlorite solution for inhibiting an antigen-specific immune response]
And lets not forget about good old colloidal silver. It kills every bacterial disease. And there are new refinements about using ionic silver, Ag+. One company is making tetra silver-tetra oxide, which is said to be far superior. Also claims are being made that silver can kill some virus' and some fungi. So chlorine dioxide may best be used for it's more amazing results on problems like virus, fungus, parasites, diabetes, autoimmune, arterial plaque, Alzheimer brain plaque, COPD, tar deposits in smoker's lungs, and other problems that need more research and testing.
Dr. Hesselink's Table [Average 1 mg/kg per day]
|
Probable Dosages per day of Sodium Chlorite For Various Body Weights |
|||||
|
Weight |
Weight |
Start |
Average |
Maximum |
Lethal |
|
9 lb |
4 kg |
1 mg |
4 mg |
8 mg |
400 mg |
|
13 lb |
6 kg |
1.5 mg |
6 mg |
12 mg |
600 mg |
|
22 lb |
10 kg |
2.5 mg |
10 mg |
20 mg |
1000 mg |
|
30 lb |
14 kg |
3.5 mg |
14 mg |
28 mg |
1400 mg |
|
44 lb |
20 kg |
5 mg |
20 mg |
40 mg |
2000 mg |
|
66 lb |
30 kg |
7.5 mg |
30 mg |
60 mg |
3000 mg |
|
100 lb |
45 kg |
11 mg |
45 mg |
90 mg |
4, 500 mg |
|
154 lb |
70 kg |
17.5 mg |
70 mg |
140 mg |
7000 mg |
|
220+ lb |
100+ kg |
25 mg |
100 mg |
200 mg |
10, 000 mg |
Lab Tests with Chlorine Dioxide Disinfection examples include bacteria, yeast, fungi, mold, algae, spores, protozoans, cryptosporidia, actinomycetes, cysts, giardia and larval eggs (mosquito, tse tse fly), insect eggs and larvae (agricultural pests, fruit fly, floricultural and horticultural insects), problematic veligers (zebra mussels, quagga mussels), fish and shellfish diseases (VHS, KHS, ISA) and many others. Unlike chlorine, ClO2 has the ability to kill water-borne viruses such as legionella, cholera, dengue, hepatitis and typhoid. ClO2 also kills airborne viruses when misted into air. Airborne viruses include anthrax, influenza, SARS, smallpox, chickenpox and avian flu. ClO2 kills all known bacteria, including coliform, salmonella, E-coli, listeria and cinobacteria. ClO2 eliminates microbial slime (biofilm).
Hospital Infection Research Laboratory UK, Institute de Recherche Microbiologique France, Micropathology UK, Biotech-Germande France, Bluscientific UK, PHLS UK
Spores: Bacillus cereus, Bacillus subtilis, Bacillus subtilis var niger, Anthrax [used to disinfect the DC anthrax attack]
Mycobacteria: Mycobacterium avium-intracellulare, Mycobacterium chelonae, Mycobacterium fortuitum, Mycobacterium terrae, Mycobacterium tuberculosis, Mycobacterium tuberculosis Poli-R
Viruses: Canine Parvovirus, Coxsackivirus B3, Hepatitis A, Hepatitis B, Hepatitis C, Herpes simplex virus Type 1, HIV Type 1, Human Norovirus, Influenza virus Type A2, Poliovirus Type 1, Poliovirus Type 2, SARS,
Fungi: Aspergillus niger, Candida albicans
Bacteria: Acetinobacter baumannii, Clostridium difficile [C. diff], Enterococcus faecium (vancomycin resistant), Enterococcus hirae, Escherichia coli [E. coli], Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Pseudomonas aeruginosa (gentamicin resistant), Staphylococcus aureus, Staphylococcus aureus (methicillin resistant) [MRSA], Salmonella, Campylobacter, and Listeria monocytogenes
Replied By Art (California ) on 01/20/2017
Thank you for the informative post! That is information that anyone considering taking MMS should read first!
Art
Replied By Robert Henry (Grayton Beach , Fla.) on 01/22/2017
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Replied By Bob (Murphy, Nc) on 01/23/2017
Did you ever use ClO2 gas to bleach pulp, like is done to kill mold in a house?
Replied By Hube (Boone, Nc) on 01/25/2017
I have been looking for a balancing discussion on MMS. My wife suffers from a combination of auto-immune disorders (Sjogren's, Lupus, Rhumatoid Arthritis) and my 16 daughter had a bout of mono that has left her with severe fatigue and nervous system sensitivity.
While it is clear from your presentation that chlorine dioxide is safer and effective, it seems that sodium chlorite would be a better choice to treat autoimmune conditions.
Also, does Hesselink's table refer to daily dosages?
Replied By Bob (Murphy, Nc) on 01/26/2017
Yes, the Patent, mentioned, uses sodium chlorite http://www.google.com/patents/US20110076344 for autoimmune. But perhaps chlorine dioxide would also work, and at lower safer doses. I was surprised to learn that Parkinson's, ALS, MS, rhum. arthritis, etc, can be auto-. This Patent has the most exact bio-chemistry research, I've seen. [Note: there's a typo in the Patent. ClO2 is missing the minus sign. Should be ClO2-.]
Replied By Frances (Cabarlah, Qld.) on 01/27/2017
Replied By Jim Humble (Somewhere In Another Country) on 01/30/2017
Replied By Sheenagh (Cambridgeshire) on 07/18/2018
Jim, All I will say as a humble non-chemist with a deal of common sense is that I don't see how you can claim it does not kill ''good'' bacteria! Does it knock on its door and say ''Are you good or bad?''. Nooooo! Are good bacteria immune to destruction? Noooo! I think, basically, you are wrong!
Replied By Jim Humble (Las Vegas) on 01/31/2017
Bob should have read my latest book before making most of his statement. But he didn't and he just made dozens of mistakes in how to use MMS and I'd like to say he made all those statement about me with never meeting me or knowing about me.
So in case you are going to use MMS let me point our some of his obvious mistakes. (1) He states, "some of his (my) protocols may have too much sodium chlorite per day. He is so unprofessional that he doesn't give dosages per pound of weight of the patient." Again he didn't read my book. I suggest that everyone start out at 1/4 drop of MMS. I have given mice 1/4 drop without adverse reactions. Well I don't want to get into a long drawn out protocol, but I give three golden rules to follow after doing the 1/4 drop all day each hour. (A) As long as you are getting better, don't change anything. (B) If you are feeling worse, cut your next dose in Half. (C) If you are not feeling worse nor better (nothing is changing) increase the doses a little. NO ONE GETS MORE THAN THEY NEED WHILE FOLLOWING ALL OF MY DIRECTIONS. It's easy for anyone on the street.
One sample how goofs in his chemical evaluation of MMS. He acts like a High school chemist. Like most chemists he jumps in there and says when acidifying sodium chlorite it turns first to an acid and not to chlorine dioxide. Well, yes, true, but that is for only 1/2 second and the it turns to chlorine dioxide which you drink and you body never knew it was that acid before it was chlorine dioxide.
Then he says that I say that sodium chlorite turns mostly to chlorine dioxide in your stomach. No, No, that isn't so. Read my books. When you acidify a drop of MMS with a drop of activator only 1/10th of the sodium chlorite in that drop turns to chlorine dioxide and then when you drink it (that 1/10th has already turned to chlorine dioxide) and now in your stomach another 1/10th of that drop turns to chlorine dioxide by the normal stomach acid in most people's stomach. So you see only 2/10ths are turned to chlorine dioxide. But this isn't bad. I could have change that. But sodium chlorite unactivated is important to the body too and MMS is much more effective when it has both chlorine dioxide and unactivated sodium chlorite.
Sorry, I don't have time to tell you in all the places where he screwed up, but it was many and his chemistry was not great. When he said that people who finish with a MMS protocol need probiotics for the stomach to replace the flora he as again wrong. The company Lenntech is a company that has been selling chlorine dioxide for 50 years and they state that chlorine dioxide is in fact truly selective in what it can kill. When I first went to Africa I went to a Missionary group that had 50 churches dotted through the jungle area. Each church had 50 to 200 people waiting for me with malaria. In one month I treated 5000 cases of malaria and over a period of years I treat 60,000 sick people with MMS and never notice any of them needing replacement of stomach flora (that is if they didn't already need it before being treated). If you are going to use MMS I suggest you read my latest book and not rely on Bob's chemistry. Sorry about sounding mean. Don't mean too. But Bob decided I was a bad guy without meeting me and talked about the truth, so just wanted you to know I am not a dictator and just want to see people get well. That's my job.
Jim Humble
Replied By Chris Jackson (Texas) on 05/19/2021
BS Jim. "IX" (AKA: Larry Smith the father of federal inmate Daniel Smith) Trolls the MMS.io forum and deletes any posts that he doesn't like and he doesn't like much! He wants to see MMS positive testimonials on every post and thats about it! So much for helping everyone get well Jim. There are dozens of people on that forum who got stuck at low dose and had no answers and IX deleted them when they were crying out for help! Telling people with long term chronic illness and glutathione problems, etc.. to take more MMS, its not going to help them, not unless is for a very short time and a very secondary infection of some sort. All these things we could answer if idiots like Smith would stay out of the way! Malaria, MMS is great, nothing better, Mold or other illnesses it not seeming to help and the reasons would be apparent if IX would go away!
Replied By Firstis (New Zealand) on 03/05/2022
Demonizing innocent people who were only trying to help others tells me you are a 100% troll, and I am certain that the honorable Larry Smith was only protecting the precious MMS website (and thus helping more people get better) from people like you and your disinformative, intentionally fake negative posts.
Replied By Ariel (Santa Cruz ) on 10/24/2023
You are so right! Larry sucks and has erased my comments when I've been desperately trying to find help troubleshooting mms issues. That guy really is the worst.
Replied By Bob (Murphy, Nc) on 01/31/2017
You have an amazingly strong effect on people. Nearly everyone is repeating your ideas. Everything, I wrote, is from scientific information. I could have listed the references, but that would have made it longer and more difficult. I can send you links to the information.
The flora isn't in the stomach, it's in people's intestines. People can't feel the bacteria in their intestines, so no one would know what is there. There aren't symptoms caused by a lack of such bacteria. And from their first meal, bacteria would be added to their bodies. It isn't necessary to take probiotics, it's merely good advice.
Right, chlorine dioxide, not MMS which also has leftover sodium chlorite, is more selective. That means it only reacts with some amino acids, and chemicals, such as with sulfur bonds. That's the part that makes it safer. Selective does not mean that it can "know" whether a bacteria is good or bad. I've read comments by doctors saying some good bacteria are anaerobic, and some bad bacteria live with oxygen. Either way, the cell membrane and interiors of both bacteria are the same.
Did you read my whole Post? Perhaps you got the impression that I am advising people to not use chlorine dioxide. That's not the case. I have thought about the idea that my Post may discourage some people. But I think it's important that people get the correct science info, especially with so many people reaching the vomit and diarrhea level.
Replied By Bob (Murphy, Nc) on 01/31/2017
And I have read his books, including his new Health Recovery Manual. That's how I know his ideas.
I'm not disputing how much work Jim has put into helping people.
Replied By Robert Henry (Ten Mile, Tn) on 01/31/2017
It was the Germans that blazed this Ozone trail and Dr Shallenberger brought it to the U. S. I think CLO2 is in this category that can help mankind, but it will be after the fight with Big Pharma and the AMA. One paper mill ClO2 generator would supply the world, but I would almost be impossible to ship it as a solution. Jim, your MMS procedure solves that problem, but I have reservations about the control. I've read enough over the years to know that the medical folks wanted to put you in prison because you were so successful.
Have you heard of Ebola lately? No, because a U.S. doctor showed the local doctors how to cure the disease with Ozone. When that first happened the media played the drama to the hilt and Big Pharma had $ signs in their eyes.
Jim, I do think you have to back off on your claim that ClO2 only kills the bad stuff and not the good stuff. Anti-biotics kills both, as does Ozone, so why is CLO2 any different. That just goes with the territory and you can build your gut flora back in a short while. Don't get side tracked with this argument. I just wish some open minded folks like the Germans would look into CLO2.
Another protocol that works, but is outlawed, is the Rife Machine. I have one. Your DNA tells your your health problems and that science is here and now.... only in the closet. One of these days this test will be done and you will go into room where you will be hit with frequencies that kill all the critters that are affecting your health, including cancer. It won't help a car wreck victim, but it will cure general health problems.
Let me suggest that we make a chicken salad out of this chicken sheet situation. You boys talk to one another is a civil manner and you can move the world. Lots of good can come out of this mess. I want it to happen.
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Replied By Bob (Murphy, Nc) on 02/02/2017
Replied By Bob (Murphy, Nc) on 02/04/2017
I'll bet you never got a cold, flu, or infection when you worked with it, LOL. What were your symptoms when you had ClO2 leaks? How long did pulp need to soak to get bleached?
You ask about how to take ClO2. There's only one Protocol; take pure chlorine dioxide, not MMS. The solution in water, CDS, goes weak after a few weeks in the refrigerator. So the best way to get it is the dry MMS1 tablets, available in the US at mmstabs.com Not the MMS2 pool bleach! And don't swallow the tablets, as Jim recommends, unless you feel like burning your stomach. Put the tabs in a cup or glass of water, let sit for 1/2 hour to make sure it completely reacts. The activator used is sodium hydrogen sulfate leading to near 100% ClO2. And keep the tabs in the fridge or freezer, the dry chlorite decomposes.
Do you have any illness?
Bob
Replied By Kris (W.a ) on 02/05/2017
When I took MMS, I started with One drop (as directed)
Replied By Robert Henry (Ten Mile, Tn) on 02/07/2017
I was the mill Supt and after a year my assistant told me that I was the conservation piece of a group and all were proud that I had quit smoking. They all agreed that if I started smoking again then they hoped I never quit, because I had been one SOB for the last year.
I wish I could shed some light on breathing ClO2 over the years. I can't. All I can say is that I'm still perking. My gut tells me that there is some good in this compound, but I really don't know. I know there is no good in breathing Chlorine. It will kill you in a minute.
Bob, keep plugging away. You may some day be famous. Just think of how Bill Munro impacted the world with his simple procedure. My gut tells me that the biggies are Ozone, ClO2, ACV, PEMF and the Rife Machine. Too bad Gates nor Buffet are sponsoring any of these. Instead they are doing stuff to control our population. I agree with that, but not their way.
Out of spit.=====ORH=======
Replied By J. Park (Cerritos, Ca) on 02/08/2017
Have personal experiences involving gut-flora matter. Due to many dental implant works, had to go thru antibiotic treatments many times. Still remember vividly how lousy I felt doing antibiotics, but had no choice, but to go thru with them. I knew too well that was due to the loss of my friendly bacteria. How I wanted to get them back! As soon as I was done, immediately started probiotics, which took a while but I got back to healthy self.
Later on, I got smarter, did some quick research, found that probiotics can go along with antibiotics! So I did both simultaneously and problem seemed much easier. Pretty nice. When I did become aware of MMS by JH, I was apprehensive about its safety, but, as a medical reseacher, decided to go in deeper, make my own conclusion. Gradually, I became a believer, tested it out few times drinking 1 or 2 drops at a time and it seems that I don't have much problem with it. Decided to use this instead of antibiotics during dental works.
I started P1000 right after the dental surgeries w/o probiotics. Why? "My Body did not want it" ! It was natural not to have any probiotics, in fact, it never occur to me during MMS. I went thru this few times, my MMS Protocol 1000 replacing the antibiotics ! Not used probiotics during P1000, didn't feel I need it. (didn't tell my dentist about this, but wonder how he would react when I tell him. His prescription? straight down to garbage can)
Feeling so nice knowing I don't depend on antibiotics, my gut-flora intact?? no worry of antibiotics habit-forming. I was very hot in selectivity research last year, but now things are bit vague. Don't know if you guys ran into this, but the best article I saw last year was, https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1304/1304.5163.pdf [Editor's Note: This 32 page .pdf entitled "Demonstrating that chlorine dioxide is a size-selective antimicrobial agent and high purity ClO2 can be used as a local antiseptic" may take a long time to load depending on your internet connection.]
Their find was 'selectivity' has to do with 'size' of the organisms. This may give one additional explanation to selectivity, just one, may not be all.
I do believe there is "selectivity" with ClO2! I do not believe that JH needs to back off, remembering his conclusion been based on zillions of experiences.
We may not understand its full mechanism as of now, but maybe someday, there might be. Not understanding does not warrant Negation. Selectivity of ClO2 seems REAL and science(or theory of it) always FOLLOWed reality, not the other way around. Isn't the quantum mechanics one of these?
They tried to understand the funny behavior of "light", winded up a theory "the cat can be alive or dead at the same time"... or that sort of weird thing.
They, those young scientists, basically force-fit the theory to reality, winded up Quantum Mechanics despite Einstein refused it saying, "God does not play dice".
The Quant. Mech. has been proven the most successful theory today.
PS: I've been very much interested in Rife Machine, but my impression has been it is non-trivial to use it since those critical frequencies are to hard to pin-point.
So with current electronic techniques, they basically sweep freqs "carpet bombing". Mr. Rife was highly successful because he had his venerable microscope that can see the microbes(even those viruses) while trying to select right frequency to kill them. It was like "taking an exam knowing all the answers". And that's our problem, no super-microscope.
Anyhow I'd like to get some real info, if possible, name of dependable machines, how successful you are Robert Henry.
Replied By Bob (Murphy, Nc) on 02/08/2017
I know about the FDA corruption, and other conspiracy info. And I know about ozone, which will also hurt your lungs pretty quickly. I had a subscription to Dr. Rowen's newsletter. He's the one who went to Africa, and was curing ebola until the govt kicked him out. Ozone will turn almost anything organic into CO2, O2 and H2O.
I also know about Rife. I know there are several types of devices available. I bought the best one, that is a little different, Frequency Specific Micro-current. It uses two channels and low frequency. It's doing the seemingly impossible. I'll see if there's posts here.
I'm not looking to be famous. And I don't like going against Humble. But his advice is making everyone eventually vomiting with diarrhea. And MMS2 is even worse.
Bob
Replied By Bob (Murphy, Nc) on 02/08/2017
Check my Post in Rife Machines. There's a different type that is far better than any of them, Frequency Specific Micro-Current.
We truly lost something valuable in Rife's microscope.
Replied By Bob (Murphy, Nc) on 02/08/2017
Replied By Bob (Murphy, Nc) on 02/08/2017
Methods of using a stabilized chlorite solution to inhibit antigen-speciic immune responses are disclosed. The stabililized chlorite solution, When administered to a mammal in need thereof, can prevent the presentation of antigens by antigen presenting cells. The stabilized chlorite solution therefore is useful in treating, inter alia, auto-immune diseases, treating diseases caused by an inappropriate immune response, treating lymphoproliferative disease and in inhibting rejection in transplant patients.
Replied By J. Park (Cerritos, Ca) on 03/04/2017
I think I have to explain how I got my PEACE with MMS. There seems to be some confusion as to type of selectivity, so I'll make 3 points:
1.MMS is selective against big guys & small guys(microbes good or bad).
Due to the structural difference, ClO2 (being very weak oxidizer/killer) has enough power to kill small guys(microbes good or bad in the mean time) while leaving mostly alone those healthy human cells.
Jim Humble did mention that in one of his book, about the size, so I don't believe there is much problem to accept that.
This is one way I found peace with MMS. This size difference is the MAIN benefit we get from MMS.
2.MMS kills both good or bad microbes? The answer to this question is "who care?"
There may not be much structural difference between those good or bad fellows.
Let's assume that MMS kills both indiscriminately. Antibiotics, as we well know, are indiscriminate killers, they kill them all. But they have been valuable saving human lives, haven't they? The damage they cause is temporary & reversible, we can restore those beneficial bugs one way or another, sooner or later. As a result we get the health benefits.
3.MMS is selective against those good and bad microbes?
Of course! They are other differences besides structural.
This is well known fact.
First off, let's use some common senses. Recalling that ClO2 carries 2 oxygens. We human live on oxygen, so do those aerobic microbes. Hence we can see the common factor already while anaerobic ones get killed by oxygen. More technically, more aerobic microbes are beneficial (we accept exceptions of course) and more anaerobic ones are bad. So it is fair to say that More/most aerobic microbes are good and More anaerobic ones are bad.
Aerobic ORGANISMs possess ENZYMES to remove ROS(reactive oxygen species, form of well-known strong oxidant) such as catalases, peroxidases and superoxide dismutases,
but in ANAEROBEs these are often absent or present in low concentration.
So it doesn't make sense to have aerobic microbes get killed by oxidation and it DOES make sense to have anaerobic microbes get killed by oxidation. Those microbes way outnumbers our cells, don't think we have identified them all nor classified them all good or bad but it's not that hard to accept MOST aerobic microbes survive the oxidant MMS while MOST anaerobic ones get perished to give us health benefits.
PS: as an old man, I haven't found peace with God yet like you R.Henry, I envy you (I'm trying hard).
Replied By Donna (Tallahassee, Fl) on 06/22/2018
Wow. I learned so much from all of the posts here. I wish you all would continue. Thanks for all of the information!
Replied By Anon (Usa) on 06/23/2018
Replied By CJ (Texas) on 03/22/2021
I also think the MMS2 in Humble's book is even worse. I do believe that topically or as a mouth antibiotic MMS might have some great uses, maybe it's a great drug, or a giardia/amoeba drug, that if used only for a short while might be doable. As a treatment for anything chronic, I think it's just too risky. If our own FDA would tell us the truth this would not be a problem, and the AMA has never ever told us the truth about anything, the lies are the reason this is all happening. We know they lie to use on lots of things, so people just believe nothing now. The solution is DMSO, and the newer Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM), both of those really do work for just about everything and they are both safe and will do everything that MMS is claimed to be able to do. Stick with Iodine (Lugol's solution) and DMSO and or MSM and you won't hurt yourself. Also, read the old homeopathic med books. Prior to 1900, the books were full of real cures and treatments that preceded our current drug marketing lunacy that is killing everyone with lies and starvation from high costs.
Replied By Chris Jackson (Dallas) on 03/23/2021
MMS is a shotgun approach and its a systemic antibiotic, so its going to your whole body, everywhere, like any other systemic antibiotic. Yes, it works for some things, but it's only for short term use. All drugs are poison, it's all dose dependent, so are foods. So many people get stuck on Humbles starting Protocols for good reasons: not enough sulfate in the body, not enough Magnesium in their bodies, not enough iodine, etc... etc.. it's the same reasons some people get sick and some don't. Give enough people any antibiotic and a percentage of them will get well, and some never will. I think MMS kills off all your good flora in your gut, that why everyone loses weight continually, and it's bad, it's malnutrition weight loss, just like most every other antibiotic does.
The people who take MMS for acute infections do well, the people who take it for longer times don't seem to. Read the forums, lots and lots of people get to 1-2 drops per hour and stay there for years and never recover.
A systemic antibiotic is not what they lack, what they need, it's other things, and other issues that an antibiotic isn't going to just solve. Humble is a complete idiot who got lucky and found a malaria cure, and it does other things, but it's not a miracle, and its not the panacea that's going to cure everything like it's touted to. I took MMS and CDH for 3 months and I'm off, for good, and I only started getting well when I stopped the MMS.
MSM and iodine, and the Wilkings protocol (mercuryfreekids.org) will do everything that MMS is supposed to do and won't, and Wilkings does a lot more and it doesn't make your liver sick from the MMS toxic load.
Replied By Jo (Minnesota) on 04/08/2021
Replied By Robert T. (Ocala, FL ) on 05/19/2021
Chris, if there are no viruses then how do exosomes travel outside the body to infect people?
Replied By chris jackson (Texas) on 05/19/2021
Replied By Dr. Glen Swartwout (HI) on 09/03/2021
They infect people in theory. Exosomes are also biocommunication molecules and may communicate between individuals to initiate similar detoxification processes. The meeting of Koch's criteria has never been demonstrated, so both theories are worthy of consideration... They tried to demonstrate transmission of the Spanish flu, going as far as injection with zero effect, so more research on exosomes will likely be most productive...On another note, many of you will be interested to learn of a kit from Europe called 1st Line that produces a bio-identical antibiotic. It is another problem solver, as it is non-toxic to the mitochondria (which are symbiotic intracellular bacteria), as well as the liver and the kidneys.
Replied By Rita (Sedona) on 07/11/2021
Thank you for taking the time to go through this. I am working with a tooth infection just started exploring MMS with the DMSO for the oral infection. I thought it might be beneficial to do a protocol of the 1000 along with the teeth - gum brushing a couple of times a day. I love colloidal silver and had read it counteracts the MMS but then I watched a share recently of the training Jim did in 2010 where he says good things about colloidal silver. I am trying to figure out the best way to save the tooth by working through the gum and through my blood system if there is benefit in this approach. I also started using a red light on my jaw and by opening my mouth.
I would appreciate any thoughts on this and since I am not a chemist would you say that my impression from your share is that I should not combine in drops from the two droppers I have that contain Ionized Structured Water, Sodium Chloride with the Ionized Structured Water, Ascorbic Acid? I have heard of other protocols using these chemical with a similar theme building in your system but again I am not a chemist. Alternatively I could try another cleanse to help eternally if that is needed and then maybe work with the MMS orally and then adding some DMSO with a slight brushing around the tooth with the infection. It is not in the tooth but has expanded some around the base of the root and up the side. It has been feeling better although I am not chewing much on it as I want it to just heal. The friend who gave me the MMS solution and the DMSO has been using it in Peru and some other places successfully but they use the 6 drops three times a day or the old method for so many days and it has cured a lot of things. Recently that protocol helped someone who was dying from the V and no one could help them - they could not find ivrm bc the pharmacy has now been told not to sell it.
If you are coaching people I would love to connect. Thank you so much!
Replied By Robert T. (Ocala, FL) on 07/12/2021
Thank you for that. Evidently the only way treat a tooth is at the root. It's been a long time since I worked with this material, so I'm not able to discuss it.
Replied By Ron (Idaho) on 08/01/2021
In my experience, mms will treat problems with teeth but I found the way to best utilize it is with a water pic, works good. If you have any questions feel free to contact me
Replied By Bob T (Ocala, FL) on 08/02/2021
Interesting, thanks.
Replied By Michael (Gabriola, Bc) on 07/12/2021
When I next took a small dose I almost immediately vomited and that's the last I took it. The science and reasoning behind it all made sense to me and I really wanted to believe it'd work for me. When my body reacts that violently though I'm going to listen and stop. I was a premature baby and I believe my organs are sensitive and frail so that can part of the reason. I'm glad I read this. I'll try the smaller dose and see how that goes for me. I've got tones of the stuff left and I wasn't going to sell it or give it away in good conscience knowing how it went for me.
P.S. People, I don't trust the FDA or big Pharma as far as I can throw them. I actually read all of the overwhelming positive comments/testimonies on here which gave me the confidence to go ahead with the cost and effort of making and trying it. It didn't work for me and I wish it did.
Replied By Robert T. (Ocala, FL) on 07/13/2021
You're welcome, Michael.
Replied By Cynthia (Canada) on 08/05/2021
I was wondering how long the MMS solution stays in organs or other parts of the body once you've done the 60 days as we just did?
And thank you for this article. We are so desperate for help beyond the regular medical treatments that kill his immune system. Thank you.
Cyndy
Replied By Robert (Ocala, FL) on 08/06/2021
Cyndy, MMS, or ClO2, decomposes quickly. It does not stay in organs.
Replied By Marie S (Marble, CO) on 09/02/2021
Replied By Debbie (Murphy NC) on 09/23/2021
Replied By Robert T. (Ocala, FL) on 09/23/2021
Debbie:I read all of Jim's books, including MMS HEALTH RECOVERY GUIDE. I wouldn't make comments unless I had. I said I wasn't against taking MMS. I make my own chlorine dioxide. I wasn't telling people not to use it. Can you explain why Jim's protocols are correct?
You wrote: ==You will probably never read this bcuz ur post is so old, but if people take the time to read and study Jim Humble's books, specifically MMS HEALTH RECOVERY GUIDE, you will see that this person has not read Jim's book and as a user of MMS this person is completely wrong and I am sad if people actually believe this and miss out on the awesome benefits of MMS, specifically the protocols from Jim Humble.==
Replied By Robert T. (Ocala, FL) on 09/26/2021
Mel ... MMS doesn't cure diabetes, 1 or 2. It only stops the symptoms by treating the pancreas.Quote from a different website:
What about diabetes, does MMS cure diabetes?
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People don't like me to use the word cure as it upsets some people to even have the concept that something can be cured so I won't say it very often. A group of researchers in Canada have stated that all persons with diabetes have an inflamed pancreas. Many doctors have said that, so it's really nothing new. What is new is MMS. The Chlorine Dioxide created by the MMS overcomes the inflammation of the pancreas and guess what, the symptoms of the diabetes.
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Yes MMS works really well on people with diabetes. I know of a lot of people who are off their insulin, I also known of people who have gotten their sight back.
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Just take your insulin four hours after taking MMS and you should be fine. Visit www.miraclemineral.org for the MMS book and DVD.
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We have known people who had diabetes and where on insulin and when I say where is because they don't use insulin anymore and they also tell us that they feel much better. I think he should do the standard protocol which is on my web page.
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My husband has Diabetes, should he stop taking his insulin when he starts taking MMS?
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He does not have to stop taking his insulin until he feels good enough that he does not needed it anymore have him take the MMS and wait 3 to 4 hours to take the insulin, remember to start at 1 activated drop (per hour) and increase it by 1 (drop) per day till you get up to (3 drops per hour).
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Generally, what is involved with the diabetes is the pancreas being inflamed; MMS gets the inflammation down, thus the pancreas starts working again. However, it is not a solution for everybody, and only half of the people taking MMS have been helped.
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Video of Jim on Diabetes:
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From Curezone: curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1606706
I had hoped that MMS would cure my type2 diabetes when I started over 2 years ago, no luck. However what I did find was that it would dramatically reduce my blood sugar shortly after taking it. My neuropathy in my feet greatly improved, it's not totally gone but it became a lot more bearable. Recently I developed deep cracks in my heels which I managed to heal in about a week by bathing them every night in a basin of warm water with 10 drops activated.
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Another Curezone post: curezone.biz/forums/am.asp?i=1078236Note: Once you have (done the MMS Protocol 1000 for a month or more) of the viral, bacteria, mold, and yeast load will be gone from your body. Your body will be clean. You no longer have to worry about feeding the microorganism load. You can base you diet on nutrition, rather than not feeding the load. The diabetes will be gone, thus you no longer need to worry about sugar. You won't have to worry about the pancreas over reacting thus giving you a shock of insulin. Instead it will give you just enough insulin to knock the blood sugar lever to the right level (You won't feel sleepy after eating a candy bar). Your body will then be able to easily adsorb vitamins and minerals and many other nutrients it might have been missing up to this time. You should feel better as time goes by. Do not quit taking the MMS
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Hello to you all. I am on this list now because my dad recommended MMS to me as he had borderline diabetes, started on MMS and has had wonderful results. Now he did lose weight and watches what he eats, but added MMS and doesn't even have to take his meds anymore.
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From Jim Humble.biz: Diabetes under control
Dear Sir Jim Humble;
It is my pleasure to post the success story I have experienced using MMS2 for my friend.
He had this diabetes for years already without
improvement.
It takes about a month only. Using gradual increase day by day until able to take 4 caps a day at 2 to 3 hour time frame.
Here is how he achieved it…. he also take enzyme at the same time.
Before he start MMS2. The reading was 7.+, now the reading was 5.+ He never had this reading before. He now taking it daily at 1 to 2 caps.
I am glad to finally obtain the MMS1 25% solution. It does work too. Am having it often now. Will wait the arrival of your DVD to finish my exam on ...
Edwin Tan ( Penang Malaysia ) 11/07/2010 08:06am
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So, (Bruce speaking here...) MMS is a very probable remedy for many people with Diabetes. If the chronic inflammation of the pancreas is eliminated, dramatic healing is possible. In one post, Jim says that healing can happen in 50% of Diabetes cases. I would suspect that with enough time more than that will at least be partially improved.
Replied By Mel (Millersville pennsylvania) on 09/26/2021
Replied By Khandyse (KS) on 07/26/2022
Replied By Rend (Olivet) on 11/20/2023
Replied By Lisa (Jax, FL) on 11/22/2023
I found Andreas Kalcker's book Forbidden Health (andreaskalcker.com) to be a great resource.