Lisac107 (Port St. Lucie, Usa, Usa) on 11/01/2013
I started giving my dog Ubiquinol, about 15 mg, he is 14 lbs, is that the right dose?
I have been very busy with family issues, my Mom went in the hospital, I am driving back tomorrow, 18 hours straight and taking my dog with me. I want to get him on the right supplements and doses but don't have a vet to work with. The one I took him to says he is holistic but just gave me the Lasix which I am giving him 1/2 a pill either once or twice a day which helps but, I don't want it to deplete his minerals.
There is an "isolated mineral" supplement that is mentioned but not the manufacturer, could someone tell me which one to get, please?
I make him organic chicken broth and chicken, I add spinach and carrots to the broth, tried to feed him sweet potato but that didn't go over well.
I will try giving him the Cardio Support again but I stopped last time because two days into giving it to him, he was coughing bad when he hadn't before. I know they say a supplement shouldn't do that but if he is allergice to one thing in it, I don't know.
Also, what brand of Ubiquinol is best? I saw one from Swanson's that is water soluable.
I will be checking this board even when I am back in Ohio for a week.
Thank you in advance! Sincerely, Lisa
(Mpls., Mn) on 11/01/2013Theresa
The wonderful Theresa from Minneapolis, MN has been helping pet owners and their beloved pets around the world on Earth Clinic since 2013.
About Theresa
Theresa from Minneapolis was born and raised in the inner city, always wishing she had been raised on a farm.
Her love for creatures great and small began at an early age, starting with caterpillars - which continues to this day, along with an interest in all insects and 'creepy crawlies'.
Theresa's interest in pet health started with a bird keeping hobby at age 14, where she learned from another hobbyist that the simple addition of Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) in a bird's drinking water kept fungal infections away; she was able to share this with her avian vet who in turn prescribed it to her own clients; Theresa was surprised to learn that she could teach her vet a thing or two. This important lesson - that each of us can be a teacher - was a turning point for Theresa, and fueled her quest for the knowledge held in lore, and remedies passed by word of mouth. That quest for knowledge continues to this day, as new and old remedies alike are explored. She may not have experience with a particular issue, but she will research it to the best of her ability and share what she finds freely, in the hopes that you can heal or improve your pet's health.
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The dosage for Ubiquinol on the site sourced below is as follows:
"According to Karen Becker DVM, a good heart healthy maintenance dose is:
About 10 mg per day per 10 lbs of body weight
(for small dogs and cats you can cut the capsule, put a drop or two in food and take the balance of the capsule yourself so you don't waste it)"
Interestingly enough, if you follow the link to her article on a test for canine heart disease she states the dosage as follows:
"CoQ10 supplements come in two forms: Ubiquinone and Ubiqunol. Ubiquinol is a reduced form of CoQ10 and is the supplement I recommend for my dog and cat patients. A good heart-healthy maintenance dose is:
- 50 mg per day for cats and small dogs"
Source: http://gratefulpet.com/ubiquinol-30capsules.aspx
I cannot make a recommendation as to which is the best brand; there appear to be many good choices out there.
I find your comment about your holistic vet prescribing Lasix curious: why ever would your vet NOT prescribe Lasix? Any good vet, holistic or 'western' [as my holistic vet calls it] uses the full range of available therapies to heal and support an animal, and Lasix is the "go-to" treatment drug of choice. Remember, all diuretics by their very nature - naturally derived or not - risk depleting potassium levels in the body.
I really like this site for how well it covers topics; this is their page for Lasix:
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_furosemide.html
They recommend compensating for the possible depletion of minerals by giving your pet a mineral supplement. It might just be that easy, to offer your pet the "go-to" drug of choice [Lasix] and avoid mineral depletion by upping the nutrition in the diet you feed. And I am sorry if it appears I am trying to push you into using this drug. Its just that your boy is 14.5 years of age, in a breed where the median lifespan is 11.4; his long life is a testament to your very good care! But I would hate to see him fail to live out his life to the fullest in comfort and breathing with ease, for fear that the conventional treatment will cut his lifespan.
I do think you should give your holistic vet another chance when you get back to town. Bring up your concerns over using Lasix, and that you are have modified the prescribed dosage; discuss the most effective schedule for dosing based on what you have seen in your pet. Check out the heart murmur to see if it has changed from 5-6; has it improved under your current therapy? Ask for his opinion on dosage for Ubiquinol. Scan through the pages here and list out all the supplements and their dosages provided by Katie and other posters, and show this list to your vet and ask if he would recommend additional nutritional supplements for your boy.
Sending prayers for you, your mom and your boy~
Replied By Lisac107 (Port St. Lucie, Usa, Usa) on 11/03/2013
I appreciate your reply and suggestions, thank you!
My comment about the vet and holistic was based on him not even offering something natural to go along with it if nothing else. Nothing about the potassium loss, etc. Agreed that sometimes you need to use meds but there are usually other more holistic ways that either compliment or do the job.
I am giving him 1/2 Lasix in the morning and the other half at night. Also giving him the organic chicken broth cooked with spinach, carrots and potatoes to help replenish the potassium.
Reading a comment about homeopathy on this page, it was said that it didn't work because of the meds out-doing the benefit. Now I'm not sure if finding a homeopathic vet will be of benefit or not.
I am overwhelmed with all that is going on. Thank you again for your reply.
Sincerely, Lisa
(Mpls., Mn) on 11/04/2013Theresa
The wonderful Theresa from Minneapolis, MN has been helping pet owners and their beloved pets around the world on Earth Clinic since 2013.
About Theresa
Theresa from Minneapolis was born and raised in the inner city, always wishing she had been raised on a farm.
Her love for creatures great and small began at an early age, starting with caterpillars - which continues to this day, along with an interest in all insects and 'creepy crawlies'.
Theresa's interest in pet health started with a bird keeping hobby at age 14, where she learned from another hobbyist that the simple addition of Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) in a bird's drinking water kept fungal infections away; she was able to share this with her avian vet who in turn prescribed it to her own clients; Theresa was surprised to learn that she could teach her vet a thing or two. This important lesson - that each of us can be a teacher - was a turning point for Theresa, and fueled her quest for the knowledge held in lore, and remedies passed by word of mouth. That quest for knowledge continues to this day, as new and old remedies alike are explored. She may not have experience with a particular issue, but she will research it to the best of her ability and share what she finds freely, in the hopes that you can heal or improve your pet's health.
-----------------------------
How To Show Theresa Your Appreciation
If you would like to thank Theresa for her helpful posts, she asks if you would please consider making a donation to one of her favorite local rescue organizations, or by making a donation to help the genius contributor, Ted from Bangkok, recover from his stroke.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Get-Bobo-home/1409993732632080?sk=timeline&ref=page_internal
I can't fault your vet for prescribing the Lasix; 14 year old geriatric senior dog with severe heart murmur = Lasix in *any* vet's book. The herbal diuretics can take weeks to show their effects and their efficacy is far out shadowed by the Lasix.
That said, you paid good money for a visit, and you should provide your vet the feedback; dosing Standard Process Cardio per his advice and the dog is coughing - the vet needs to hear that and offer his take on it.
Its true that other remedies can negate a homeopathic remedy; you may be able to work around this by dosing the homeopathic remedy 4 hours before or after the other remedies or medications.
I know funds are limited, but it might be worth your while to consult with a different vet. I do think you should provide feedback to the first vet and allow them an opportunity to remedy your disappointment in their treatment plan. But its certainly possible you got a bum [quacks are found in all fields of medicine, yes?] so consider calling and interviewing these holistic vets in this search of your area:
http://localbusiness.heraldtribune.com/port-saint-lucie+fl/veterinarians+holistic.zq.html
I did search the site of the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association http://www.ahvma.org/
There is one vet in Miramar - almost 2 hours from you - that does have a mobile practice. It might not hurt to call this vet as well for an opinion: Jeanette Basto 305-467-4185.
And, if your boy has an appetite, then the laundry list of nutritional support Katie has posted is in order. Read all the posts and jot down all the nutritional remedies and the doses. See what you can include in your boy's diet to help support his heart.
Keep us posted on your boy please!
Replied By Lisac107 (Port St. Lucie, Usa, Usa) on 11/12/2013
I appreciate your suggestions and research, thank you kindly.
I have been giving him the Lasix, 1/2 and 1/2 but in quarters if I can. I make the organic chicken broth, add organic spinach, carrots and celery and let it cook for 4-6 hours. I give him some of that broth every day which should have some minerals in it but for the replacement of the potassium and magnesium, I can't find how much to give. Anything I've read, for dogs, is in micrograms.
I ordered a homeopathic supplement that is a diuretic, also got Apis Mel 6c to try but have to wait a bit before I give it him since I gave him the Lasix less than four hours ago.
I really want to try him on the Cardio Support again but the last time I tried, it made him cough hard when he hadn't been coughing. Maybe it wasn't the supplement but he did the same thing when I gave him Bio Cardio instead.
Does anyone know how much potassium and magnesium I can give him or is the broth enough? As I mentioned, I tried the sweet potatoes, not going to happen, he did not like them at all. I could add more potatoes to the broth when I cook it, did the the other week.
Thank you in advance for any input and/or suggestions.
Sincerely, Lisa
(Mpls., Mn) on 11/13/2013Theresa
The wonderful Theresa from Minneapolis, MN has been helping pet owners and their beloved pets around the world on Earth Clinic since 2013.
About Theresa
Theresa from Minneapolis was born and raised in the inner city, always wishing she had been raised on a farm.
Her love for creatures great and small began at an early age, starting with caterpillars - which continues to this day, along with an interest in all insects and 'creepy crawlies'.
Theresa's interest in pet health started with a bird keeping hobby at age 14, where she learned from another hobbyist that the simple addition of Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) in a bird's drinking water kept fungal infections away; she was able to share this with her avian vet who in turn prescribed it to her own clients; Theresa was surprised to learn that she could teach her vet a thing or two. This important lesson - that each of us can be a teacher - was a turning point for Theresa, and fueled her quest for the knowledge held in lore, and remedies passed by word of mouth. That quest for knowledge continues to this day, as new and old remedies alike are explored. She may not have experience with a particular issue, but she will research it to the best of her ability and share what she finds freely, in the hopes that you can heal or improve your pet's health.
-----------------------------
How To Show Theresa Your Appreciation
If you would like to thank Theresa for her helpful posts, she asks if you would please consider making a donation to one of her favorite local rescue organizations, or by making a donation to help the genius contributor, Ted from Bangkok, recover from his stroke.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Get-Bobo-home/1409993732632080?sk=timeline&ref=page_internal
You have probably already seen this, but in case not, here are some home made diet ideas - scroll down for the one for cardiac issues:
http://www.2ndchance.info/homemadediets.htm
When supplementing potassium for dogs with CHF, the form used is potassium gluconate; this is available as an OTC supplement.
If you feel you are observing the side effects of low potassium - hypokalemia - in a pinch you can give him banana.
I cannot stress enough the need to work closely with your vet on this; blood levels should be monitored regularly -its possible that at this point no potassium or mineral supplementation is needed.
Another thought is to ask your vet about using spironolactone instead of lasix - spironolactone is a potassium sparing diuretic.
This is the dosage for supplementing potassium for dogs I found searching online:
The typical dose would be 468 mg per 10 lbs of body weight - adjust as needed.
Question: when you dose the Standard Process Cardio Support or Bio Support, how much do you give - the whole table in one go, or do you break it down?
Thanks!
Replied By Susanl (Port St Lucie, Fl) on 01/22/2014
Never give any dog with a Heart Murmur anything with salt. My dog is also on "Young at Heart" for Dog Heart Disease, which is working out fine. But I think I will try the EarthClinic.
Replied By Lisac107 (Port St. Lucie, Usa, Usa) on 01/24/2014
Thank you for your reply, I hope your dog is still doing well! I see you live in PSL as well, may I ask if you take your dog to a holistic vet?
I am still giving my dog who just turned 15 this month, one Lasix a day, Obiquinol, magnesium and potassium along with his organic chicken broth and grass fed beef, just a small amount for the amino acids in it.
I am also using a homeopathic supplement that is a diuretic, I would like to try the Hawthorn and even Dandelion versions of the homeopathy but have to order them.
I'm adding 1/4 tsp of organic apple cider vinegar to his water for potassium as well. I need to get his blood work done and see how everything is but when I take him to the vet, the gets so worked up, it frightens me and he doesn't do well after for a while. I will ask them if they can just take him in the back, draw the blood and get him out of there quickly instead of him seeing the vet which is what works him up. At this point, I do not want to stress him if I don't have to.
Let me know if you find anything else that can help and thank you again.
Lisa