Replied By Katie (Northport, Ny) on 10/28/2013

--- natural alternative diuretics

Natural diuretics include urea (AC Carbamide) by Standard Process, and Wu Ling San by Mayway and Alisma by Seven Forests, both traditional Chinese herbal medicines (TCM). Other Chinese herbal alternatives include Salvia Shou Wu, a Seven Forests patented supplement which consists of Salvia extract, and several other herbs and flowers. Holistic supplements should be taken only if prescribed by a licensed veterinarian who also is holistically trained in TCM. A search webpage for finding holistic veterinarians in the United States is located here.

-- natural alternatives to ACE-inhibitors

A natural supplement as an alternative to ACE-inhibitors is a combination of active fish petides, including LKPNM, from the bonito fish (Sarda orientalis), such as Vasotensin, manufactured by Metagenics, Inc., and PeptACE by Natural Factors. Holistic supplements should be taken only if prescribed by a licensed veterinarian who also is holistically trained in TCM. A search webpage for finding holistic veterinarians in the United States is located here.

Other Chinese herbal alternatives include Salvia Shou Wu, a Seven Forests patented supplement which consists of Salvia extract, and several other herbs and flowers. Salvia Shou Wu encourages blood circulation.

--- natural alternatives

In addition to the natural alternatives to diuretics and ACE inhibitors and arteriolardilators described above, natural supplements which may help to strengthen and energize the heart of a dog with severe MVD include D-Ribose (Corvalen Ribose or Pure Encapsulations Ribose), also known as alpha-D-ribofuranoside, which reportedly improves ventilatory efficiency in patients with congestive heart failure (CHF). See this 2004 report and this 2009 report. It also reportedly boosts the energy level of heart muscle cells, improving cardiovascular function and the flow of blood. Holistic supplements should be taken only if prescribed by a licensed veterinarian who also is holistically trained in TCM. A search webpage for finding holistic veterinarians in the United States is located here.

A good general health supplement for older dogs in congestive heart failure is N, N-Dimethylglycine (DMG). Vetri-DMG is a pure DMG product offered by Vetri-Science Laboratories of Vermont (www.vetriscience.com). DMG is said to support the immune system, promote oxygen utilization, improve cardiovascular function, support liver function, and support ocular health.

Replied By Sasho (Bulgaria) on 02/09/2014

Replied By Katie (Northport, Ny) on 02/09/2014

Ubiquinone and Ubiquinol are both forms of CoQ10. The difference between the two is that ubiquinone is the oxidized form of CoQ10, this is the form that has been studied for more than 30 years. The drawback for ubiquinone, is that it needs to be converted by the body into ubiquinol and not everyone can make this conversion. In addition, it's not very absorbable. For young, healthy individuals, they say it's probably not a problem but for older individuals and those with chronic disease (such as heart disease) it is said that they usually can't make this conversion, so ubiquinol is usually recommended for them.

Ubiquinone, which is a fat soluble substance, was then made more advanced about a decade or so ago, when a company called Tishcon patented a delivery system which made ubiquinone water-soluble and therefore more absorbable by the body. This is the Q-Gel? formulation by Tishcon you were asking about.

Then more recently, a company called Kaneka Corporation of Japan perfected an even more advanced form of ubiquinone (or CoQ10) called ubiquinol. Ubiquinol is pre-converted and ready for immediate use by the body, unlike ubiquinone. Since Kaneka Corporation created and patented ubiquinol they are the only company to sell it. It is sold under all different labels by different supplement companies but the trademarked name for their ubiquinol is KanekaQHTM.

Now, an even more advanced form of ubiquinol has been created by Tishcon Corporation. They succeeded in making Kaneka's ubiquinol water-soluble for even better absorption. So, now the body no longer has to convert it, and it's more easily absorbable. They say this form (which is the most expensive) is the form that is best for those with serious health and heart issues. This is the one I decided to give to my dog – it's called Quinogel?.

So, to answer your question, my favorite would still be the Quinogel?. If I couldn't get the Quinogel, I think I would consider using the Q-Gel? ubiquinone formulation by Tishcon, since it is the advanced form of ubiquinone. However, I would never use regular ubiquinone as it is very hard to absorb into the body. Attached is a short piece I came across explaining some of the differences with some CoQ10s.

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/health-library/products/quinogel-ubiquinol-coq10-supplement.html

As far as the Carnitine goes, I gave my dog a liquid L-Carnitine made by a company called Lonza. Different companies sell Lonza's carnitine under their own labels (e.g., NOW). If you look on the back label and you see CarnipureTM you will know this is Lonza's carnitine, as that is their trademark. I don't know if this is the best Carnitine, but I was told that it was so I decided to stick with it. I read that absorbability can be a problem with carnitine and I was told that this was highly absorbable. The draw back is that they might only make it in fruit and citrus flavors now which dogs might not like.

Replied By Sasho (Bulgaria) on 02/10/2014

Replied By Elle (Manila, Philippines ) on 01/19/2015

The vet prescribed enalaripl for 15 days, doxyvet for 10 days and furosemide for 2 days. He has a follow up X-ray sheduled in 2 weeks.

Right now he is really happy and eating normal you wouldn't know he has CHF apart from the cough he had yesterday. I don't want to shorten the time I have left with him or worsen the quality of his life. I want to order the Cardio Plus and Canine Whole Body support. I'm not sure how long it will take for them to arrive here though probably at least 2 weeks. Also I read about Pet Wellbeing Young At Heart but reviewcentre.com has terrible feedback on their customer service and products. I'm a bit overwhelmed with all the other supplement advise.

I think I'll go ahead and order the cardio plus and canine support right now anyway. I'm scared not to do anything about his chf until they arrive and making him worse. Should I give him the presrcibed meds in the meantime?

Replied By Katie (Northport, Ny) on 01/19/2015

If your dog has fluid in its lungs, you might want to give the lasix which will help to get rid of the extra fluid in his body and also make him more comfortable and it will probably help to get rid of the cough.

However, I would not want to wait 2 weeks without giving your dog any type of heart support given his current condition. Conditions like this can move very quickly into heart failure. If it were me, what I would probably do, is order both the Pet Wellbeing Young at Heart (I've read the testimonials and they seem good) and I would also order the NHV Hearty-Heart (only because I don't know which product would be better). Personally, I would feel better knowing that I have both on hand, in case one of them didn't work as well for my dog. I would also pay expedited shipping charges to get them to me immediately so I can start them ASAP, with the hope that I can avoid the meds, which tend to complicate everything.

Until they arrive, you may also want to try giving your dog a small amount of magnesium and see if it helps him. Magnesium helps to lower the blood pressure and when a dog is in congestive heart failure, his blood pressure is typically very high. An observation I made with my own dog was that the magnesium helped to slow down his very fast heart rate. (FYI, Enalapril is prescribed for the same reason, as it also lowers the blood pressure.). You may also want to consider either krill oil or fish oil (250/500 mg? for a little dog) which is anti-inflammatory and is good at lowering blood pressure too and for heart health overall.

Hopefully, the herbs will help to stabilize your dog's heart condition. If you are getting good results you may want to keep your dog on them. Then, by the time the Cardio-Plus and the Canine Whole Body Support arrive, you can probably start them too, although I would suggest that you start them slowly (and not at the same time) because your dog's health is weakened right now.

When dealing with a condition such as CHF it is very important to observe symptoms when adding supplements (i.e., increased panting, heart rate, coughing, etc.), which is why you want to add them slowly. You don't want to see an increase in these symptoms, your goal is to see a decrease. If you do see an increase in any of these, it means you need to make an adjustment in your protocol (i.e. lowering dosages or not giving a supplement at all).

I wish you the very best with your dog.

Replied By Elle (Manila, Philippines) on 01/19/2015

Thank you so much for your fast reply and your advise. I couldn't sleep last night I stayed up reading posts on how to help treat CHF naturally. I just gave my dog half the reccomended lasix prescribed. He woke up happy and wanting to play this morning; I'm so scared of him suffering any side effects. I'm staying home to monitor him today. I would rather give him magnesium than enalapril. Also the krill oil? He currently weighs 12 lbs how much should I give him? I can get some today from the health food store. I was reading a lot of posts about supplements for dog heart problems and getting overwhelmed with how many different ones there are and dosage. I want to do everything I can for my little guy though. I was looking at Q10, l carnitine etc and found Vetri Science Cardio Strength. There are a lot of good reviews and feedback on different websites.

Dosage: 1 capsule for 30lbs dog

Side effects: None

Active Ingredients: L-Carnitine HCl 250 mg L-Taurine 250 mg N, N-Dimethylglycine HCI 50 mg d-alpha Tocopheryl Succinate (Vitamin E) 30 IU Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA) Powder Blend 25 mg Coenzyme Q10 20 mg Gamma Linolenic Acid (GLA) Powder Blend 10 mg Folic Acid 0.9 mg Magnesium (as Magnesium Citrate) 0.5 mg Potassium (as Potassium Citrate) 0.1 mg Selenium (as Sodium Selenite) 0.007 mg

After reading about Hearty Heart and Standard Process products I'm leaning towards the Vetri Science for now does this sound ok? People have posted saying they have used this long term and in conjunction with prescribed meds. I don't want to keep him on the meds but as long as he isn't suffering side effects I'll try the lasix for now and magnesium until the cardio strength arrives. I'm trying to find a seller with the fastest shipping.

Thank you so much again for your time and responding to me Katie.

Replied By Katie (Northport, Ny) on 01/20/2015

I'm glad to hear your dog is feeling better today. The lasix is a diuretic (also known as a water pill) and it's job is to release the excess fluid in the body. I don't think you'll have to worry about it causing any complications when you start him on his supplements. In my experience, it has been the blood pressure meds (such as the enalapril) and the other heart meds that have caused the problems. Hopefully, you dog won't be on lasix long- but in case he is, be aware that it can be very tough on the kidneys and it will cause the body to lose/flush out magnesium and other nutrients.

Although I don't have any experience with Vetri-Science, I know they have a very good reputation and I would not hesitate to try any of their products. If you're able to stabilize your dog on this, that is great. Then, afterwards you might want to also add the Cardio-Plus because the CardioPlus is food for the heart and the Canine Whole Body Support is food for all the other organs.

Re the Krill Oil. I read a few articles by Dr. Karen Becker (from mercola.com) on essential fatty acids for pets and how necessary they are. In one of the older articles, dated June 13,2009, she recommends supplementing krill oil (to a pet currently in good health) as follows: 250 mg. daily for toy breeds and cats (1-14 lbs); 500 mg. daily for small dogs (15-29 lbs), 1000 mg. daily for medium dogs (30-49 lbs), 1500 mg. daily for large dogs (50-79 lbs) and 2000 mg. daily for dogs 80+ lbs. I wonder if she would increase her recommendations for dogs that are currently not in good health, such as a dog with heart problems? I tend to think that she would. It was recommended that I give my own dog 500 mg. of fish oil when he was sick (he was 14 lbs).

Anyway, if you decide to give the krill oil, which may be a better choice than fish oil according to Dr. Becker and Dr. Mercola, I know they make a Kids Krill, which is a smaller capsule than their standard size, and it is probably a good size for your dog. The Kids capsules are 160 mg. each, so you could probably give you dog one or two per day. Or, they also sell the krill oil in a pump bottle for the dogs, but there is a chance that your dog might not like the taste in his food. I prefer capsules.

Re the magnesium, I could not find a recommended dose for a dog in CHF (or even as a daily recommended dosage for a dog). I came across an antioxidant formula for dogs made by Vetri-Science (Cell Advance 880) which contains 18.75 mg. of magnesium and it is recommended to take 1 capsule a day per 20 lbs of body weight. So I guess you can use this dosage as a general guideline. However, you would also want to take into consideration that since your dog is also taking a diuretic (which will cause him to lose magnesium), that you should probably increase the amount. I don't know what the amount should be ? 20-30 mg., maybe? You would have to be the judge of that by seeing how your dog reacts to it.

Replied By Elle (Manila, Philippines) on 01/21/2015

I ordered the Vetri-Science it arrives here on Friday. Cardio-plus and canine whole body support sellers don't ship here to Manila so I have asked a friend if she can ship them to me asap.

Thank you for the info on krill oil and magnesium. I went to the health food store but they had so many different options and I wasn't sure what to get. With the dosage info I'll return tomorrow.

So far Cash (he's a super cute white pekingese) hasn't suffered any bad side effects from the lasix or enaparil. The lasix he is meant to take for 8 days and the enaparil 15 days. It's day 2 of the meds and he's eating normally and has been his happy self. When I get the magnesium tomorrow should I stop or cut down on the enaparil? I was scared he might get worse if I don't give it to him and he hasn't shown any side effects symptoms. He is due for another X-ray in 2 weeks and the vet said to bring him in anytime if he has any problems. So far so good though. Looking forward to getting him off the meds.

Replied By Katie (Northport, NY) on 01/21/2015

Re the magnesium. It seems like your dog is doing well, I don't think I would give it to him. Maybe you should speak to your vet though about giving your dog some fish/krill oil which may help with the blood pressure (and is also anti-inflammatory).

I wish you the very best with Cash. I hope that you and your vet are able to get him off his meds as his heart hopefully improves.

Good luck.

Replied By Elaine (Belmont, Ca) on 05/29/2015

Replied By Jenny (Winnipeg, Mb) on 11/22/2015

Replied By Katie (Northport, Ny) on 11/23/2015

It's amazing that your dog has surpassed your vet's survival estimates by 7 years. Obviously you are doing something right.

Thankfully, my dog, who is still alive, never had an enlarged heart, but his heart was as the upper limits of normal a couple of years ago. Today, its in the mid range of normal.

My sister was born with a hole in her heart too but it was repaired in a surgery by stitching the hole shut. I'm not sure what supplements would help in this condition. But, because your dog was able to manage for all those years with the hole, it makes me wonder if the reason he's having trouble now is because the heart is so weak and tired from the constant backflow of blood through the chambers of the heart all those years. I wonder if nutrition will help him?

If it were me, I would probably try the Cardio-Plus to see if it helps. I also wonder if magnesium, CoQ10 or hawthorne might be helpful for your dog? But most importantly, I would want to work with a good holistic vet and get their recommendations for your dog.

Replied By Jennifer (Winnipeg, Canada) on 01/18/2016

I have a Norwegian Elkhound 8 years old, was born with a hole in her heart and was told she wouldn't last 1 year. Her heart condition is getting worse now, with coughing, enlargement of the heart which is probably pushing on the trachea. She gags and sounds hoarse and gurgely. We have her on Lazix, small dosage, 40 mg. I don't want to give her this. we give her Q10 30 mg, 2 times per day, and dandelion leaves mixed in her food. We are taking her to a holistic vet today. She weighs 42 lbs. According to what I have read, she is in the early stages of heart disease.

I have read your posts and very impressed with your suggestions. I have checked out the Cardio Plus and Canine Whole Body Support. How long did it take for you to notice that it was working, and how long before your dogs heart went back to normal size? I am very stressed out about this!

Replied By Katie (Northport, Ny) on 01/21/2016

BTW, my dog still has his murmur after all these years, despite my best efforts. I have not been successful in getting rid of it. (I still think there is might be some sort of infectious or inflammatory component that needs to be dealt with, such as candida or some sort of bacterial or viral infection. My vet said the vaccines are the cause of MVD and that they attack the valves, which is then transferred to the offspring). BUT, I do think that the heart support I've been giving him for the past 5 years (Cardio-Plus) has been integral in keeping him in stable condition, in combination with good food, no vaccines and no tick/flea preventatives.

With the exception of the murmur, my dog is thankfully asymptomatic of heart disease and he has no heart enlargement.

Replied By Jennifer (Winnipeg) on 01/28/2016

So sorry, I did not see your post back in November; I am so thankful that you have received mine. I have since had our Norwegian elkhound ( Holly) to see a holistic Vet. We have added beef heart, beef kidney and chicken livers to her commercial food. The vet has also put together a Chinese herb formula I still have to give her the Lasix for the fluid buildup but not as often. I researched The Cardio Plus and Canine whole body support but they don't ship to Canada! That is frustrating. Can you email me so that I don't miss your replies? jennyt75 (at) hotmail.com

I don't like to give out my email, but really want to talk to you more about this, and appreciate your advice.

Sincerely,

jennifer

Replied By Jennifer (Winnipeg, Canada) on 02/01/2016

I am very happy to hear about your dog. Even though he has a murmur, you have done wonders with him. Just want to let you know, I also have a cat, that has had a murmur her whole life, which has not made a difference in the quality of life she has experienced. You are right when you say good food and good supplements make all the difference.

Replied By Amy (Little Rock, Ar) on 03/17/2016

I've been reading as many of your posts as I could. Could you tell me what your current regimen is for your dog? My dog just got diagnosed with CHF on Wednesday when he went in for a dental cleaning. They did a pre-anesthetic work up on him, including an echo by his cardiologist on the morning of, and that's when we were told he was now in heart failure and could not be put under anesthesia. He'd had a murmur and heart enlargement for two years, but only recently started showing symptoms like coughing, reluctance to exercise, and faster breathing rate. So, now he's been prescribed vetmedin, furosemide, and enalapril. I stopped the furosemide and enalapril pretty much right when we started, because I found out his bun and creatinine were slightly elevated, and so I do not want to risk his kidney health any further. I eventually want to stop the vetmedin also (he's only been on this for 2 days now).

I do see a holistic vet, and I mentioned the Standard Process protocol products that you posted about. She is supportive of ordering those for me. Since he is in a more acute condition than your dog, I'm thinking my regimen may have to be more aggressive than what you may currently be giving your dog. But based on some of your older posts, I'm thinking of getting:

Immuplex (for his teeth since he can't get cleanings, but has inflamed gums);
CardioPlus;
Cataplexy B;
Cataplexy F;
Organically Bound Minerals;
Calcium Lactate;
Cataplexy E2;
Hawthorne;
Canine Whole Body Support

Is there anything you would add or take away based on my situation? BTW, he is a 13 year old Chinese Crested Powderpuff; 15-17lbs; symptoms are currently stable on vetmedin; grade 4 murmur; heart enlarged and MVD which has now progressed to CHF; he's also on ubiquinol, fish oil, and a cardio tonic that includes hawthorne, and a low sodium diet; also the cardiologist made it sound like he wasn't really retaining any fluid, which is good. I want to change my regimen and take out these individual supplements in place of some of the stuff above that you also gave your dog.

One question - why the calcium lactate? I think you mentioned it has calcium and magnesium in a 5:1 ratio (I think), but I'm reading that a calcium to magnesium ratio that high in calcium (and even a ratio of 2:1) is too high and that can harden arteries? This article is saying the ratio should be 1:2 or at least 1:1. Here's the link, in case your interested: http://deliciousliving.com/blog/time-ditch-21-calcium-magnesium-ratio
Maybe you can shed some light or maybe you don't give this to your dog anymore.

Also, how did you get your dog to take all these supplements? My dog hates taking pills and chews. If they aren't too big, I wrap it up in some chicken breast, and he'll eat it. I used to use peanut butter but stopped after reading about aflatoxins. Any other suggestions on how to get my dog to take all these supplements? The chicken is working for now, but I know I'll have to change it up now and then, because he gets sick of the same stuff if I give it to him everyday.

Thank you SO MUCH for your input! Any other thoughts or suggestions from you will be much appreciated. I'm so grateful there are people out there with success stories. It gives me some hope that I don't have to rely solely on conventional meds.

Replied By Katie (Northport, Ny) on 03/20/2016

I wouldnTMt give all those supplements to your dog. I started giving them to my dog early on and then found out that it was just too much for him. Now, he only gets the CardioPlus, Ubiquinol, Rosehips and digestive enzymes. Also, two or three times a week I give him a B-vitamin supplement (Cataplex B) and a mineral supplement (Organically Bound Minerals). For his arthritis and hip dysplasia I add some additional ascorbic acid but ITMm not sure if it itTMs even necessary.

I think the most important thing to know is that when trying to figure out a supplementation protocol is that it really needs to be tailored to the animal, based on his condition. So the supplements I am using for my dog (with mild heart disease) would not be not enough for a dog with CHF. I have read that as heart disease progresses to CHF there is damage to the arterial system, the heart and that the level of inflammation in the body increases exponentially too (at least in humans and I am assuming this applies to animals too). The degree of inflammation supposedly correlates to the level of heart disease. From some of what ITMve read, it seems that when there is heart enlargement and CHF, heart cells are also dying.

I did a little internet browsing and came across the attached article on the use of curcumin in CHF. http://doctormurray.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Theracurmin-Review-Improves-Congestive-Heart-Failure-Most-Bioavailable-Form-of-Curcumin.pdf. It seems that curcumin (if they are in the highly absorbable forms) seem to be able to prevent the death of these heart cells and that they also reduce inflammation in the body which can be very helpful in CHF. This study was done with a highly absorbable form of curcumin (Theracurmin). The study mentions that curcumin did not interfere with blood pressure meds such as enalapril (a/k/a ACE inhibitors) because curcumin worked on a different metabolic pathway in the body. In fact, they mentioned that the curcumin and ACE inhibitors work well together. But, I would ask your vet about this as I have no experience with it. Other anti-inflammatories are fish oil, boswellia, green tea extract among others. ITMm not sure if Boswellia and green tea extract are recommended for dogs with CHF, but I would speak to your vet about these or other alternate possibilities. (As a side note, if I were to give curcumin (an extract of turmeric) to my dog, I think I would give it along with a turmeric capsule too so that you have the full spectrum of the entire supplement present for possibly better absorption).

I have also read that when there is CHF that there should be liver support added because none of the organs are functioning optimally. The recommendation was to add milk thistle for CHF.

So, I think that at a minimum you would probably want to use some of the following and then discuss the rest with your vet:

• CardioPlus (if blood pressure is high) or Vasculin (if blood pressure is low),

• Ubiquinol (such as the Q-Gel formulation, not ubiquinone). Ubiquinone or regular CoQ10 is not absorbed by those with CHF. I have read that the recommended dosage for CHF should be doubled but it should be started at the lower dosage and increased to a double dosage by the 3rd week.)

• Hawthorne (although ITMve read this can take a few weeks to start working)

• Minerals –necessary for the heart

• Vitamin C or Rose hips (thins the blood, relaxes the arterial system and helps to control blood pressure)

• Anti-Inflammatory- such as curcumin (?)

Speak to your vet and ask if she recommends any of the following:

• Ask if any of the Awesome Foursome supplements are necessary: (i) Magnesium (relaxes the arterial system, lowers blood pressure), (ii) Carnitine (increased energy in heart cells, (iii) Ribose (to be used only in CHF- restores energy in sick hearts)

• B vitamins

You asked about how I hide his pills if he wonTMt eat them, I just wrap them in a piece of cheese or cold cuts.

Good luck with your dog.

Replied By Amy (Little Rock, Ar) on 03/21/2016

Thanks so much for your reply. I have noted all your suggestions. I just started my dog on Cardio plus and canine whole body support, as well as hawthorne, fish oil, ubiquinol, and ordered some others like magnesium and cod liver oil. I also switched him to homemade dog food which has made such a positive difference.

I want to start him on Taraxacum officinale (dandelion). Could you suggest a reliable source for this? I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!

Replied By Amy (Little Rock, Ar) on 03/21/2016

Do you have any suggestions for immediately lowering my dog's breathing rate? At night, his breaths average 40 BPM, which is very high for him. During the day it averages 30, but just a few months ago his average was 24. What exactly causes the increased breathing rate? Is it high blood pressure? I read in one of your older posts that magnesium helped your dog's heart rate slow down. When I count his heart rate, it's on the normal-ish side (around 120 beats per minute). It's just his breathing rate that is elevated. It's distressing when I see him breathing so fast. Should I give in and give him his meds (vetmedin, furosemide, enalapril)? I'm not even sure that they can be immediately effective. He's been weaned off, and has actually been doing better with just supplements and homemade dog food, but I'm still waiting on magnesium to be delivered, and until then, what can I do to bring him immediate relief for the fast breathing? Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Replied By Katie (Northport, Ny) on 03/25/2016

As long as your dog doesnTMt have kidney disease, I would give him magnesium to see if it helps. It seems we all need it and none of us get enough of it unless we supplement. From everything ITMve read, magnesium is a powerful vasodilator. So, when blood vessels are dilated, blood pressure can come down dramatically. However, if youTMre giving him magnesium and heTMs taking a blood pressure med too (which is also lowering his blood pressure) it may lower it too much. Speak to your vet about this. Maybe the answer is the give a smaller dosage of the med if giving the magnesium or to give it away from the meds? I did notice that my dogTMs heart seemed to calm down after giving him the magnesium, particularly that one time where his heart was beating out of his chest. The recommended forms of magnesium are citrate, taurate, malate, glycinate carbonate. Avoid oxides, sulfates, glutamate and aspartate forms. Or you could try one of the liquid forms like I did, but they may be difficult to dose because the liquid doesnTMt taste good.

If your dog is having a difficult time right now and the magnesium and other supplements donTMt work quick enough to give relief to your dog, please donTMt ignore it. You probably need to give him some meds to give him some relief…he is probably very uncomfortable right now. Work with your holistic vet, maybe smaller dosages of the meds (or fewer meds) can be given while giving the supplements a chance to work. Just remember that if someone has been on a blood pressure med for a while you donTMt want to stop them cold turkey. It can cause a rebound effect and cause a big swing in blood pressure.

I believe that the fast breathing you are seeing with your dog is an indication of the advancement of the heart condition and yes I think that anyone with CHF has high blood pressure. I would seriously look into curcumin for your dog too. I donTMt know if you read that link that I posted a couple of days ago, but it says in the link that curcumin has the ability to basically shrink an enlarged heart due to its anti-inflammatory actions. And the other thing is that it does not affect the blood pressure (it doesnTMt raise it nor does it lower it in any way), so it does not cause a problem if youTMre taking ACE inhibitors. It just deals with putting out the inflammation in the body. I was listening to a webinar a couple of days ago in which an Ayurvedic doctor was discussing the topic of inflammation and the application of Ayurvedic herbs. I asked the question about what herbs would be recommended for Mitral Valve Disease and CHF. The recommendation was (i) Curcumin (should be standardized to at least 97% or so, given along with a fat such as coconut oil to make it absorbable), (ii) Arjuna (a premier Ayurvedic heart herb), (iii) Amla (Indian gooseberry fruit high in Vitamin C—may be similar to Rose Hips but Rose Hips is higher in vitamin C content.), and (iv) CoQ10.

I then consulted an Ayurvedic book I have at home called “Herbal Medicine – Science Embraces Tradition – A New Insight into Ancient Ayurveda" written by Narendra Singh, a MD who was involved in clinical and experimental research with herbals and conventional drugs for 50 years. I believe he may have helped to formulate “Organic IndiaTMs" supplements – many of which I have. I read the chapter on heart disease and CHF and it was mentioned that Arjuna (in the Organic India supplement called Heart Care) is like an herbal Digoxin. That Ashwaganda and the herb Puskkarmool (in the Organic India supplement called Breath Free) is like an herbal “Antiarrhythmic Agent Bradycardiac. That the herb Bhumyamalki (in the Organic India supplement called Liver and Kidney Care) is like an herbal ACE inhibitor, as is Punarnava (also in Liver and Kidney Care). And that Bhumyamalki and Punarnava (in Liver and Kidney Care) have herbal diuretic properties. This was interesting and I thought I would mention it.

Also, I came across a very good recommendation on a natural website which was to give Apple Cider Vinegar to animals with heart conditions (especially for those taking diuretics) because it is high in potassium and other minerals which the heart needs. FYI, ITMve given it to my dog to prevent fleas and my dog doesnTMt seem to have a problem with it. I just add a teaspoon to his food.

Dandelion leaf (not the root) is considered to be a mild diuretic. (Dandelion root is used for liver problems.) I think that a liquid extract is probably better than a capsule because it can be absorbed more easily. I like Medi-HerbTMs herbals (they are a division of Standard Process).

You asked the other day about ways to hide pills. Last night I happened to be cooking rigatoni and realized that that my dogTMs supplement capsules fit perfectly inside of them. I had never thought of it before but I was able to dose him last night and he never knew it.

Replied By Amy (Little Rock, Ar) on 03/29/2016

I just wanted to say a quick "thank you" for your responses! I've learned so much, and yes, I did read what you wrote about curcumin and the other supplements. My dog is now in week 2 of various supplements including the awesome foursome, curcumin, various standard process supplements, dandelion, collagen peptides, hawthorn, vetri science cardio strength, fish oil, along with his meds. I know it sounds like a lot of stuff, but his diagnosis has officially progressed to CHF - it's no longer "just" mitral valve disease. I may add to, remove, and tweak his regimen as we go on. I've also started making him homemade meals, which he is responding amazingly to. I'm planning on weaning him off the meds or reducing them eventually with our vet's help. I tried to do it without the meds at first, but it quickly became apparent that his symptoms were just too much, and the supplements will take time before really kicking in.

I'll let you and everyone know how it goes. Anyways, I just wanted to say thank you again Katie. I'm so touched that you would take the time to answer me, and so thoroughly. I'm grateful for all the others on this forum for sharing their experiences. On a side note, Katie have you thought about giving your dog collagen peptides? I've been reading about it, not only is it great for heart health, but also arthritis (since you mentioned your dog had arthritis).

Amy

Replied By Katie (Northport, Ny) on 03/31/2016

Replied By Amy (Little Rock, Ar) on 04/13/2016

Could you tell me which professional pet handling company you use? I have to go overseas and am worried about taking my dog who has CHF.

Thank you.

Replied By Katie (Northport, Ny) on 04/18/2016

Replied By Brooks (Los Angeles) on 07/08/2017

My little guy has been dealing with DCM after CHF and has begun to loss lots of muscle mass. No one seems to understand the problem but its probaby from the meds.

We are on a variety of supplements as well as a similar diet to ones you have mentioned before.

Just curious if you had learned anything new about more holistic remedies.

Thanks!

Replied By Josephine (Toronto) on 08/27/2017

I love your posted info...I used Dribose sugar for my senior (14 years old shitxu-poodle mix) its great. Do you give heart meds and heart supplements in a day or evryother day? What I mean I researched on line that every meds to needs to follow dosing intervals? Any help would be appreciated. I thought about to give an alternate dosing on heart meds and heart supplements, example, Monday I gave heart meds and next day I gave heart supplements..I believed giving to him both in a day will be too much for the body?? thanks a lot Katie..

Replied By Lisa (Mississippi) on 08/21/2023

My friend's dog has CHF. She has him on 4 prescriptions. Today they had to drain fluid from his abdomen. They're talking about euthanizing him. I've been going to her house twice a day to make sure he gets his meds. He has lost a lot of weight. That's another reason I started going everyday. To make sure he eats. He started doing better because I was making him eat and drink. I bought him the standard process Cardio plus. It should be here tomorrow. The vets here don't believe in natural healing and there's not any holistic vets anywhere close to us. The people at pet well being said young at heart can't be taken with his prescriptions. What would you recommend that I give him and how much? Theracurmin, cardio plus? I'll do whatever it takes. Thank you.

He's on FUROSEMIDE 40mg. 1/2 tab every 12 hours, PIMOBENDAN 5mg 1/2 tab every 12 hours, ENALPRIL 2.5 mg 1 tab daily. and today they added spironolactone 25mg 1/2 tab daily at noon.

EC: So sorry, Katie hasn't posted on Earth Clinic in quite a few years, so you are unlikely to hear back from her.