Best Type of Zinc
In these posts Zinc is recommended. In one post it is picolinate, in another post it is orotate. I have personally done some research and I have nailed it down to acetate or sulfate. So....which one of these is the king or zinc?
Helps Hypothyroidism
I wanted to update on the sleep combo of melatonin/magnesium/zinc. It turns out that this combo is also likely to be helpful for hypothyroidism and since the meds for hypothyroidism are known to negatively affect sleep, this is a match made in Earth Clinic!
Art
(Not Canada)
10/07/2020
Two brands of zinc affect me different ways, both zinc gluconate. One seems to be making me hurt all over, contains: cellulose gel, calcium carbonate, stearic acid, croscarmellose sodium, hypromellose, magnesium stearate, polyethylene glycol. The other (non-gmo) makes me feel good: vegetable cellulose, dicalcium phosphate, silica, vegetable magnesium stearate, vegetable stearic acid.
Just a heads-up.
(California)
10/07/2020
L-Tryptophan
I take l-tryptophan; it is precursor to melatonin and serotonin so it adds up to sweet dreams. Been doing so for years and it's just great. I'm already taking zinc but earlier in the day so am eager to try zinc and magnesium at night.
Liquid Melatonin
I've taken melatonin pills for many years, but I decided to try it in liquid form. There is a remarkable difference.
Magnesium
There was no way to add a comment to the main article so I had to Reply to an existing comment.
Magnesium has well known laxative effects. People with exquisitely sensitive guts cannot take that much magnesium at one time without it resulting in multiple trips to bathroom. Which results in interrupted sleep, just the opposite of intended effect ...
(Brussels)
08/20/2020
Ever since I switched to liquid magnesium, there's no going back for me. So much easier to take and goes straight to where it's needed. I take Remag from Dr. Carolyn Dean - it's easy to take and I buy the 16oz bottle to save money - lasts a long time. Because it's absorbed at the cellular level, it doesn't result in loose stools. rnareset.com is where you can get it. Dr. Dean wrote the book years ago, The Magnesium Miracle.
(Zurich, Switzerland)
08/20/2020
Take Magnesium L-Threonate. Has a relaxing effect in the brain, and does not cause a laxative effect.
(Toronto, Canada)
08/20/2020
Only some forms of Mg will do what you said. The bisglycinate form is okay for most people to take without causing loose bowels. The citrate and chloride forms of magnesium will have the bowel loosening effect on most people.
(Scotland)
08/20/2020
How about eating a banana or two as part of a light evening meal at least four hours before bedtime. Bananas are rich in vitamins and minerals including magnesium and they are high in fibre. Bananas will bulk up your stools and could have a gentle dehydrating effect overnight. Ignore the myth that bananas are fattening. 5 medium-sized bananas are equivalent in calories to a 150g bag of potato chips. Trying eating 5 bananas in one sitting! I doubt you can but many people can scoff a 150g of potato chips and go back for more!
Dano,
The three forms of magnesium I named will all work for the purpose of acting as a sleep promoter. Magnesium Taurate, Magnesium L Threonate and Magnesium Glycinate. Magnesium Glycinate is the same as Magnesium Bisglycinate.
Of the three, Magnesium L Threonate is least likely to cause diarrhea followed by Magnesium Taurate, based on my own experience with all three forms. These two in particular, Magnesium L Threonate and Magnesium Taurate, have shown in studies to target the brain and taurine from Magnesium Taurate also crosses the blood brain barrier and has a calming effect. This is what I am currently using, Magnesium Taurate, but have used all three as well as many other forms of magnesium.
Magnesium L Threonate is lacking in human studies compared to most other forms of magnesium of which there are over 15 forms.
Art
Magnesium, Melatonin & Zinc
Since I have been doing a significant amount of testing with melatonin, I recently tested the effectiveness of melatonin that also contains vitamin B6 as it has been mentioned on EC. In fact I recently said it was not a good form of melatonin to use for Covid-19 as the high dosages required for Covid-19 would mean you might get too much B6.
On the other hand, for the low dose of melatonin used in this sleep aid combination, I have found that the use of melatonin that has B6 in it adds to the effectiveness of this combo!
If you are deficient in B6, it can contribute to insomnia. B-6 also helps with absorption of melatonin, which is poorly absorbed, so for the above combo, a 5 mg melatonin supplement that also contains B6 is more useful to me for sleep!
Only a small change to the original combo, but more effective for me for sleep!
Here is a link to one melatonin product that contains 5 mg of melatonin plus 10 mg of vitamin B6.
When you look at the health benefits of this sleep aid combo, I am not only getting better sleep, but also improving my overall health!
Art
Melatonin Side Effects
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100% |
Melatonin in many people (myself included!) has the opposite effect. It wires me like ten cups of coffee. So, be aware it may NOT work. Don't try it for the first time if you really NEED sleep.
(Seattle)
08/21/2020
I agree with Katgirl. Melatonin taken as a supplement may make things worse.
1. Melatonin constricts blood flow, so if your circulation is 'iffy', then it could get a lot worse: (from the study "Melatonin potentiates NE-induced vasoconstriction without augmenting cytostolic calcium concentration")
2. Melatonin worsens Restless Legs Syndrome (probably because of the vasoconstriction).
3. And melatonin inhibits the enzyme acetylcholinesterase, which breaks down acetylcholine. High acetylcholine levels can cause anxiety, irritability, muscle spasms, and even seizures.
I tried it for about a week...made my sleep much, much worse.
Kelly D.
Please keep in mind that the post I put up for sleep, did not pertain to melatonin by itself and by picking just melatonin out of the three supplements and vitamin D, you are taking melatonin out of context for the purpose of sleep as reported in the original study.
In the study that the post I wrote was based on, they tested the combination of melatonin, magnesium and zinc plus suggested bringing your vitamin D level into the reference range because vitamin D has an inverse relationship with sleep issues. Lower vitamin d levels correlate with increased sleep issues while higher vitamin D levels correlate with decreased sleep issues.
Of importance, this was a placebo controlled double blind study, representing a better quality study.
Regarding restless leg syndrome (RLS), the original post had nothing to do with RLS which should be treated on its own and not count on your sleep aid to resolve that health issue too!
One of the most popular remedies for RLS on EC, is magnesium, and zinc may offer benefit also. The point being that this particular combination is not the same as melatonin alone and the three supplements are synergistic with each other meaning that the combination is more effective than any of the three alone at improving sleep! Taking melatonin by itself is not at all the same as taking this combination and even if you do have RLS, the magnesium component of this sleep combination is likely to help both RLS and sleep! My own testing has shown magnesium oil (MO) to be helpful for RLS while other posters have found benefit with oral magnesium supplements.
You said melatonin constricts blood flow based on the study you mentioned, but the following human study is more precise in saying just the opposite of what you said. This is a direct quote from the following study:
'Compared with placebo, melatonin significantly increased peripheral blood flow, as measured by distal to proximal skin temperature gradient and finger pulse volume.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14671201/
This study also mentioned that melatonin has no effect on cerebral blood flow.
Again, taking melatonin out of the context of this supplement combination, is a mistake because magnesium can act as an acetylcholinesterase agonist while melatonin alone can not! This is probably one more reason why this combination did so well in the placebo controlled double blind study!
So as you can see, melatonin alone is not comparable to the three supplements used in the study to improve sleep and bringing your vitamin D level up well into the reference range is likely to also be additive in terms of sleep improvement.
Art
Melatonin, 5-HTP, GABA, L-Theanine
I am 72 and my life is very stressful. When I started having trouble sleeping, I took melatonin and 5-HTP. They helped somewhat, but I would still wake up every hour and a half and take 20 minutes to get back to sleep.
I read a very interesting article by a sleep specialist in psychology today, and he recommended gaba and L-Theanine. GABA slows down the overactive obsessive part of the brain, and revives the more calming parts of the brain.
The second night I took GABA, I realized that I had been far less stressed all day, and was waking up less often
A month or so after I starting to take GABA, I added the L-Theanine, which works much the same way as GABA. I very soon noticed that I woke up fewer times and I fell back asleep much quicker. I still take melatonin and 5-HTP, and find I need to take a nap in the day far fewer times. My life is much happier now!
John,
Long term use (months) of 5HTP may create problems for you as it will reduce dopamine and ultimately no longer work. Reducing dopamine is a bad idea. Here is a study that highlights this mid term problem with 5HTP:
It might be safer to select another sleep aid such as zinc, magnesium, valerian extract (smells bad), passionflower, lavender etc.
Art
Tart Cherry Juice
I took melatonin for years, but unfortunately had to stop tasking it becasue I was getting a very bad rash from it. I have been a very bad sleeper all my life, it takes me from 30-40 minutes to fall asleep and I usually wake up up every 2 hours or so, and have trouble falling back to sleep. I want to add I am a very active person, gym time every day and walking. I already take the magnesium at night, but without my Melatonin I became a very unhappy person, until I read an article about Tart Cherry juice,
I drink an 8oz. glass about an hour before going to bed, and it worked even better than the melatonin, I read that Tart Cherry juice actually contains melatonin......all I can say is, I have never slept better in my life, if there is a bathroom visit, there is no problem going back to sleep. I now buy the Tart Cherry Concentrate put 2tablespoons into an 8oz glass of water.
Hope it will somebody else.
Vitamin D
3 Scientifically Proven Supplements To Help You Stay Asleep
Since the study for this combination of supplements was fairly long, I imagine that many EC readers did not have time to read the whole study, so I thought I would highlight an important point shown in this study as well as other studies and meta analyses. In most of these studies it was clearly shown that there is an inverse relationship between vitamin D serum level (25 OH d) and sleep issues or to say that a little differently, as the vitamin D level declines, sleep issues increase and as 25 OH d serum level rises, sleep issues decline.
Overall, this is just one of many reasons to make sure your 25 OH d serum level is replete!
Art
I would like to update this post as I have found something through testing regarding melatonin that I was not previously aware of. I have been taking melatonin at 106+ mg per night for over 8 months now as part of my ongoing melatonin test and to try and afford myself of the many health benefits that melatonin has shown in studies. One evening, I decided to start taking one 10 mg capsule of melatonin at 6 pm and then one more at very roughly every hour after that and then take the remainder of my dose all at once just before going to bed.
The reason for doing this experiment was to try and replicate the natural release of melatonin by the pineal gland as daylight fades to night. What I found from this test is that my sleep was very significantly improved to more like when I was in my 30's! I even stopped the magnesium and zinc for this experiment to make sure that it was the melatonin that was causing this very significantly improved sleep. It was the staggered intake of melatonin that is causing this effect. The reason that I am certain of this is because on the nights that I have forgotten to stagger my dose and end up taking the total melatonin dose within two hours of bedtime, the extra improved sleep effect is lost.
Some of you may be thinking, but I only take 3 or 5 mg of melatonin before bed, how do I break that up into smaller doses each hour? Melatonin is available in 1/2 mg and 1 mg so this should make it possible.
https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-melatonin-1-mg-300-capsules
I hope this is as helpful to others as it has been for me!
Art
(Florida)
06/15/2021
Thank you for sharing the information, Art. It is very interesting. On the occasion that you started taking melatonin at 6:00 in the evening, what was the time of the sunset at your location? Also, if you have started taking melatonin at 6:00 in the evening on other occasions, have the sunset times been different?
Sincerely,
J.
(Chicago)
06/16/2021
(Chicago)
06/17/2021
One evening, I decided to start taking one 10 mg capsule of melatonin at 6 pm and then one more at very roughly every hour after that and then take the remainder of my dose all at once just before going to bed. Art, I want to make sure I am doing this right. For a 5 MG total dosage. Let say I go to sleep at 12, I would take 1 mg at 10,1 mg at 11, then the remaining 3 mg at 12. Is this correct ? Thanks, Peter
I evidently, don't tolerate even 5 mg of melatonin Art. I took one during the day to make sure it didn't interrupt my sleep (just the 5 mg tablet time-released by The Naturalist). I started getting so tired I finally gave up and laid down. My eyelids just shut for about 2 hours, but I had a weird dream I was driving and my eyes wouldn't open, lol!! The bummer part of all this, is that I actually felt way calm the rest of the day and evening after I woke up. I wish I could get the calm without the heavy tiredness, and thought about taking just half dose, but now my Taurine got here (I ordered for essential tremor) I took just 500 mg of that lastnight, and best sleep I've had in ages, 7-8 hrs I got. No hangover feeling, and when I did wakeup once, I went right back to sleep after bathroom. There was zero grogginess at all, just felt normal sleepiness. I wanted to take the Melatonin to help prevent, or lessen Covid, just in case the vaccine (Moderna 2-jab) doesn't work on future "types" of the virus. I also take 500mg of Magnesium from Life Extension and it is mixed with some things that I'll post on the Magnesium/Essential tremors board if interested. I don't want to hijack the thread, get off topic ;) Denise
Hi J,
I have only recently started this experiment about a month ago and sunset at that time was around 7:30 pm and now sunset is about 8:00 pm. This is the earliest I have ever taken melatonin because I was concerned about disrupting my circadian rhythm, but now that I have done it, I would not be too concerned if I tested as early as is useful for Sundowning. I think getting the early morning light exposure helps with the circadian rhythm alignment for giving another feedback signal to keep the internal clock on time and I try to do that regularly also.
Btw, I continue to find new uses for melatonin and have remained at 106+ mg/night for over 8 months now. I will likely do this much or more for the rest of my life.
There was a recent study that used 250 mg/day of melatonin to good effect so melatonin studies are finally pushing the envelope toward actual pharmacological dosing that is more likely to show the true value of melatonin to human and animal health. Doctor's should be properly trained in the use of melatonin as part of their training, it is a mistake not to do that. Even plants thrive on it!
On an unrelated note I am thinking of writing a post about a natural treatment that has not been previously discussed on EC to the best of my knowledge, but I think it is too controversial at this time. I feel certain it will be a game changer for many diseases that don't have highly effective treatments currently available, but that is another time.
Art
(Florida)
06/16/2021
Hi Peter,
The melatonin 123 went like this. You determine the time you want to go to bed. For this example, let's say 11:00 pm. You take one third of your melatonin dose at 9:00 pm, one third at 10:00 pm and one third at 11:00 pm. I found this was more helpful for sleep than taking the full melatonin dose at 10:00 pm or 11:00 pm.
Now with this method I am testing, the sleep effect is much better for me, so I guess you could say that melatonin 123 was the prototype for this latest adjustment in dosing. Starting taking melatonin at 6:00 pm is earlier than I have previously taken it on a regular basis and for me it definitely works better for sleep.
Art
(Madison)
06/17/2021
Art,
I'm taking 88 mg of instant release melatonin, 20 mg of timed release melatonin and a dropperful of California Poppy, still don't sleep. What are your thoughts on thyroid combined with food allergies + postmenopause causing insomnia? I need relief other than sleeping pills, but nothing has worked. My MG, B12, D3, etc are all good, mid to upper ranges. One thing, when I work out in the yard all day is the times I tend to sleep best (tho only 4-5 hours). I lift weights, etc, but nothing has helped.
(Florida)
06/17/2021
Thanks again, Art!
Sincerely,
J.
GertJr,
Have you tried what I described in a recent post using melatonin with an earlier start in divided doses? That works very well for me and better than melatonin 123 as you are more closely mimicking the pineal glands release of melatonin.
For straight up insomnia, I would try medical marijuana before I would try prescription drugs for sleep. You will have to go with Indica not Sativa and a high THC content with low CBD content. I find that THC around 30+ is useful. If you have not used MM before start low and slow as it is very potent and it won't be a good thing if you take too much. If you smoke it or vape it, I would only take one hit to start and see how you react to it after a half hour. You can always take another hit after the half hour is up, but you definitely don't want to take too much!!!
Art
(Madison)
06/17/2021
(Connecticut)
06/17/2021
Hi GertJr,
Have you tried experimenting with Niacin? At lower doses, you won't get a flush. People report sleeping very deeply when they take it at night (Bill Thompson, for example).
GertJr,
We are all different and all you can do is try the CBD she is using, unless it is MM CBD in which case you can't.
If you can tolerate melatonin I would try the multiple divided doses starting at 6:00 pm that I wrote about in a recent post. It works very well for me.
Art
Hi Peter,
That is what I used to do, now I start earlier at 6:00 pm and take a partial dose roughly every hour until I go to bed which is when I take the remainder of my dose.
I take at least 106 mg every night, so it is easy for me to have plenty of melatonin to cover the span until I go to bed. If I only take 5 mg of melatonin every night, I would have to use the 1/2 mg capsules in order for it to last until I go to bed. I take a 1/2 mg at 6:00 pm and then I take another 1/2 mg roughly every hour until I go to bed at which time I take however remaining capsules are left as my bedtime varies.
Art
